Microsoft Layoffs - Cinco de Fire-O
Well, if ever you wanted to console yourself with some tequila, today might be your day. Phase Two of the big Microsoft 2009 layoff engages today.
- Microsoft continues layoff plan, eliminates thousands more jobs - TechFlash Seattle's Technology News Source
- Steve Ballmer's internal memo on Microsoft's latest round of layoffs - TechFlash Seattle's Technology News Source
- Microsoft Starts The Layoff Machine Again Steve Ballmer’s Memo To The Troops Peter Kafka MediaMemo AllThingsD
Is this it? Will there be more? From Mr. Ballmer's email:
With this announcement, we are mostly but not all done with the planned 5,000 job eliminations by June 2010.
Strangely, Ms. Brummel have asked folks to avoid emailing each other today because the last layoff's email volume was so distracting. Gee, sorry to be a bother while people are trying to figure out what the hell is going on. Let's see... how to avoid that... I know, tell people what the hell is going on and which people / groups are affected. Oy.
Please, if affected by today's events, note which group you're in and any messaging about things going forward (as appropriate and proper).
(And please, Ms. Brummel, if you talk to the troops about this, don't share how people affected by the layoff are thanking you - that just seems creepy.)
Dropping moderation for today, but as usual: be responsible. I will delete comments later that are off-topic, along with any other comments that react to the deleted comments. If in doubt, go visit the CRF parallel thread: http://minimsftcrf.blogspot.com/2009/05/comment-stream-microsoft-layoffs-cinco.html
1,545 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 1201 – 1400 of 1545 Newer› Newest»Oh my god, calm down. My whole org (WEX) is being encouraged to request feedback from people during this years review. I doubt it's because we're ALL getting laid off. Though I'm sure it wouldn't help if people had only bad things to say about you, if you get my drift..
Can someone please answer this ??
Is the process of collecting feedback a signal that the candidate will be eliminated ?
This in general is a bad omen. Before i was let go in May, about 6 weeks before that my manager started asking me for weekly reports. But it was teamwide though, not individual specific.
My gut feeling is that the names of folks to be fired were already finalized, this was mere documentation exercise, in case someone tried to challenge the firing.
When I was pointed at the door there were many critical things left hanging that could not be transitioned in time (plus many things that have come up since). I get emails asking for help to fix them - what should I do?
I wouldn't say anything. If you feel that you must reply (out of politeness or whatever) keep it factual and say as little as possible. Something like "As you may now as of xx/xx/2009 I am no longer a Microsoft employee. For any question you may have about my former responsibilities please contact my former manager xxxxxxx".
Do not ask for money/employment or anything else. There are people at MS who are so twisted that they would make it look like you purposely left your work in disarray in order to extort money from the company. If you are as needed as you think you are they'll make the offer themselves.
"...... and I imagine most of SteveSi's org would be similairly positive."
Errr... not in SVC4. No sign of OHI last year and not sign this year, they do not even bother bringing up excuses. Since Phil, Bill and his classroom mates took over. No one seems to give a rat ass, everybody knows that as soon as the economy improves, there will be a stampede through the door....
the layoff rumor for june 30 does not make sense. microsoft financial years ends with the last friday of june, and that is june 26. if microsoft wants to do layoff on june 30 to charge the cost to the past financial year and make better earning project next year based on lower employee base, it would do the layoff on june 26.
clearly the layoff rumors are just rumors. because if these rumors were coming from a knowledgable person, it would not have date of jun 30.
@"Does anyone have similar experience before? Is it a signal that one is on the candidate list to be eliminated in the next round (probably end of June)?",
Uh no, that's called annual review at Microsoft. It actually DOES start before June, but this year the "streamlining" is peer feedback + self-assessment at http://performance/, and that's about it.
Some orgs pushed it out even sooner because most VPs are on vacation for most of the summer and must approve the model. Uh, no joke.
How to deal with on-going queries after one has left?
Could you draw a line beyond which you will need to charge for your services - make that clear to the people who are contacting you.
I've never been laid off but have had colleagues laid off through no fault of their own. Those left behind will suddenly be trying to do n+1 (or more) people's work and be pretty fed up that they have been put into this situation.
They should be glad to pay for your services if you are reasonable and there is a way that they can do this without involving multiple layers of management.
Not a softie, but have always done a bit of extra work for my three ex-employers.
Someone is walking the hallways and peering into offices and marking down if they are in. For the past week and 1/2 the same guy with headphones and a clipboard walks by every hour 9-5 and quickly glances left and right marking down who is in and who is not. He claims to be working for MSSpaces but we do not know his true purpose. This is in building 17.
"Should I just move on and say 'screw you?'"
Let's get one thing straight: You owe them nothing. You're not an employee anymore.
That being said, consider:
1. Do I have any self imposed obligation to help my friends that are still there? I mean, hey, they're your friends.
2. Do I have any self imposed desire to make my former team or product successful?
3. Is there something in it for me? For example, a good reference or consideration for a future job opening.
If you're not getting anything out of it, then, yeah, say "screw you" or more diplomatically "Can you pay me for my help?" which will stop the conversation cold without pissing anyone off who's reasonable.
Lastly, do not look at any internal stuff under any circumstances. In case you forgot, you're not an employee anymore.
"Wow - I just re-read my posting, it sounds arrogant, that was not the intention, I'm just trying to get advice as to a way forward. Should I just move on and say "screw you?" That's so incredibly hard when you've put your life into things (I will not say for how long as I think I've already hinted at too much for those reading who might know me)."
Agree. It is hard, when you spend so much time on something; but you need to let it go and move on. In fact I am finding it hard to 'let go' of mini msft blog even after 1 month of getting eliminated in last round. But I guess with passing time, I'll get this blog too out of my system and totally move on.
Seems like bing's marketshare increased during the week it was launched. Important question is whether it can sustain it.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124456442666598355.html
The next layoffs are scheduled for Tue, June 30, 2009. Similar to the other previous rounds, it will begin with an e-mail by Steve Ballmer at 0900 EST.
The majority of the layoffs in this final round will be taking place within COSD and WEX (Windows, for those who may not be familiar). Following the layoffs will be a series of re-rog announcements within Windows.
I'm so thrilled. I work my a$$ off for win7, there is nice special ship it award from ms. MS is fast turning into a sweatship - where u work 16 hrs a day to meet customer demand, and the second customer demand is met and there are no more orders, that very second you are fired.
Does anyone know if there would be negative implications for someone who was laid off to voluntarily work for free at a new job until the 2 month WARN period was over (i.e. allowing them to receive the full severance package)?
If this is the case (i.e. that you can take another job, so long as it's for "free" without jeopardizing severence), then perhaps it is possible to have your cake and eat it too. Otherwise, it could be a delicate balancing act trying to convince a prospective employer who wanted to hire you to wait for a month or two.
Of course, your new employer would have to be willing to play along, allowing you to start work even while you're not receiving benefits or a paycheck.
"Does anyone have similar experience before? Is it a signal that one is on the candidate list to be eliminated in the next round (probably end of June)?"
Can someone please answer this ??
Is the process of collecting feedback a signal that the candidate will be eliminated ?
The paranoia must stop, really -- it's getting out of control. Plus, this question has already been answered here.
No, the process of collecting feedback does not foreshadow termination -- it's simply one method for conducting reviews and it's quite common.
It seems that some other guys in the team were also asked to do this (finding
peers to provide feedback), but not everyone in the team.
Does anyone have similar experience before? Is it a signal that one is on the
candidate list to be eliminated in the next round (probably end of June)?
i also got "peer" feedback randomly two weeks ago. It turned into a more formal "provide a PIP" on how i am going to fix the "gaps" ... looks like i am on the A10 train this year for no reason.
my manager is passive aggressive and simply lame. He is a D managing an A.
Someone is walking the hallways and peering into offices and marking down if they are in. For the past week and 1/2 the same guy with headphones and a clipboard walks by every hour 9-5 and quickly glances left and right marking down who is in and who is not. He claims to be working for MSSpaces but we do not know his true purpose. This is in building 17
Awesome. We now have a genuine "man in black" sighting. The black helicopters are next. And by the way if any of you believes they have been fitted with an anal probe please, oh please let us know. And don't omit any detail.
Seriously the paranoia is settling in. Somebody here even repoirted that one of his peers is blackmailing him into fulfilling his commitments for him. If you thought MSFT provided a dysfunctional work environment before... Well you ain't seen nothing yet!
FYI on SBA organization. Apparently, SanjayP is leaving Microsoft.
"clearly the layoff rumors are just rumors. because if these rumors were coming from a knowledgable person, it would not have date of jun 30."
So what was the significance of date May 5?? The SLT is in a tight spot. They need to report that quarter, but more than that they have a huge product shipment around the corner. I would think that rtm'ing Win7 is more important than any of the quarterly reportings. So if laying off on June 30 makes more sense as per ship dates, they will layoff on june 30 and not june 26.
Good luck to WEX/COSD colleagues. It is not so pleasant to see your close colleagues let go.
Can someone please answer this ??
Is the process of collecting feedback a signal that the candidate will be eliminated ?
I can comment about my team. Few weeks before layoffs (I think about 6-8 weeks) a slew of efficiency/ visibility/ transparency measures were introduced by management in our team. Everyone was asked to report their weekly status to their managers. Also 'Working from home' was made a privilege which would require manager's approval about 4 weeks before may 5. (There was quite some email debate on this issue internally)
Then on may 5, about half of the team was let go.
(Don't know if this was a common pattern in other teams that cut employees that day)
When the company wide layoffs were first announced in Jan, IIRC SteveSi said WEX had already been managing its size/expenses reasonably. So there would be no layoffs in WEX as part of the broader announcement, which spans the next 18 months or so as of Jan 09.
I haven't been an MS employee in a while but I still have friends there including in WEX and they have been telling me the same thing. They tell me those stories about how prior to the first wave of layoffs Steveb told all the other VPs that they should be more like SteveSi because he had headcount and expenses under control, blah bah blah...
From the outside this sounds like self serving bullshit designed to keep people in line and focused until Win7 ships.
I don't know SteveSi. Maybe he is the knight in shining armor who will keep the layoff dragon at bay as most of you seem to believe. Or maybe he's just another ruthless MS exec who is using you and will discard you once you've outlived your usefulness to him. My money is on the latter.
MS stock went up to $22.55 today while dow jones fell 24 points. What's going on?
Is market too hopeful on win7 or is it expecting major cost savings by all these layoffs??
If I don't agree, he said he would give negative feedback in my peer review, something along the line of "unwilling to help someone succeed".
That is stretching the definition of 'helping someone' too far. If i were in your shoes, i will take a stock of how much work i have and how close of a friend that guy is or how much influence he wields in team. If he's an asshole, I wont even bother with his request and just inform my manager and ask for his suggestion on what to do. If that is not the case and i have not taht much work, i will help him, but i will make sure my manager also knows that. There cannot be any harm he can do to you. If you have a lot of work, then just politely refuse to comply with his request.
In no case you should feel intimidated. A comment by someone on a specific point is not a big deal - if that person is not your manager. Also i think you can select which peers will provide you feedback, so just dont choose that guy.
I am desperate for some advice. Do I sweep this under the rug and forget about it, do I comply, or do I go to my manager?
Pissed in Redw
Just display your middle finger to him and move on.
I am no Dr fuck Phil but the guy who posted on 06/09 at 9:30 PM about helping after being fired sounds like he has some self-esteem issues.
He talks about being "thrilled" that people use his APIs. This sounds like somebody who craves recognition.
Listen man, Microsoft chose to get rid of you. That decision triggered consequences for both parties. You lose income and benefits. MS loses your expertise and contributions. By making yourself available to your former coworkers you make yourself the sole loser. Not only didn't MS lose the benefit of your skills but now they don't even have to pay for them anymore.
Cease all MS related activity right now. If the company can't get its shit together without you I'm sure they'll find a way to bring you back onboard.
Furthermore, don't you have anything else to do? Like searching for a job? Now that you're not an employee anymore your time belongs to you and you only. Don't piss it away by helping the first retard that comes along with flattering words about your APIs. If that guy can't figure out your code he should have been fired, not you.
"Does anyone know if there would be negative implications for someone who was laid off to voluntarily work for free at a new job until the 2 month WARN period was over (i.e. allowing them to receive the full severance package)?
If this is the case (i.e. that you can take another job, so long as it's for "free" without jeopardizing severence), then perhaps it is possible to have your cake and eat it too. Otherwise, it could be a delicate balancing act trying to convince a prospective employer who wanted to hire you to wait for a month or two.
Of course, your new employer would have to be willing to play along, allowing you to start work even while you're not receiving benefits or a paycheck."
Very few employers would be willing to do this, as it's supporting unethical behavior (no quality employer will assist an employee in breach of contract with a former employer), plus it opens the new company up to a potential lawsuit should you become disgruntled with them sometime in the future.
What you're suggesting is shady and unethical, and I'd suggest that if you're trying to get hired in this climate you want be perceived as a shining example of honesty and integrity.
"Can someone please answer this ??
Is the process of collecting feedback a signal that the candidate will be eliminated ?"
This in general is a bad omen.
UNTRUE.
"A co-worker in my group privately ask me if I can help him complete one of his commitments, today! It is something he has since the beginning of the year, and now he is desperate to get it done. We both report to the same manager. He even made a point of saying that all he has to do is to drive it, and I have to get it done.
If I don't agree, he said he would give negative feedback in my peer review, something along the line of "unwilling to help someone succeed".
This person is a long-time employee with 10+ yrs at MS, more of a talker than a doer. I am very upset that such blackmailing is actually going on in this company, particularly coming from someone I work with on a daily basis."
If this is the *exactly* what happens, then you must go to HR *immediately* and give a formal comprehensive statement.
This is a black-and-white grounds for immediate termination. It will of course come-down to your word against his, but assuming you file the complaint right away and assuming you don't have your own performance problems, this guy at worst will never be able to do something like this again and at best will be terminated.
Actually, our companies fye (fiscal year end) is July 3rd, so layoffs on June 30 make sense.
"Listen man, Microsoft chose to get rid of you. That decision triggered consequences for both parties. You lose income and benefits. MS loses your expertise and contributions. By making yourself available to your former coworkers you make yourself the sole loser. Not only didn't MS lose the benefit of your skills but now they don't even have to pay for them anymore.
Cease all MS related activity right now. If the company can't get its shit together without you I'm sure they'll find a way to bring you back onboard."
I completely agree.
The *only* reason to do this is if your name is well-known in the community and you believe the ongoing *external* visibility will help you get another job. Do feel free to continue responding under your known identity to questions on forums and the like, as that ongoing public recognition can bolster your resume.
Absolutely do not help your former coworkers conduct Microsoft business either externally or internally -- that's inappropriate. You have been let go, so you must also let go.
SanjayP, who cut MSN Direct and Response Point, also cut himself. He will be retiring from Microsoft. His whole SBA central team will likely be cut as well. The new boss Amit is very skeptical with the MBA-centric structure of SBA. Seems to be a good move for MS.
no quality employer will assist an employee in breach of contract with a former employer
Why is it a "breach of contract" if you work for free until the WARN period ends? So long as you aren't double-dipping (i.e. getting paid by two firms at the same time), how is this breaking the severance contract?
If it is acceptable for people to volunteer for non-profits while they are in the WARN period, then why should there be a problem volunteering to work at a for-profit firm?
Is it somehow a violation of ethics to do ANY work that could theoretically be paid for? So much for helping friends or acquaintances with their PCs. They'll just have to wait till the 60 day wait period is finished.
..For the past week and 1/2 the same guy with headphones and a clipboard walks by every hour 9-5 and quickly glances left and right marking down who is in and who is not. He claims to be working for MSSpaces but we do not know his true purpose. This is in building 17
Awesome. We now have a genuine "man in black" sighting. The black helicopters are next. ...
There really is a person in 17 walking the halls every so often and gathering stats on each office he walks by (it could be every hour but then I don't sit there watching every person walk by my office). I followed him for a while to see what he was up to and watched as he looked in offices and checked some boxes on a sheet. It couldn't be more than a present/absent measure as he was moving quickly and didn't appear to be making any notes. Some say he is doing a survey for MS Spaces but it doesn't make sense why he would need to walk by several times a day every day for the past week and a half. Why not just ask the admin of the groups occupying the area if they needed office space info? My suspicions are one of:
a) They are looking for people who are never/rarely in their office and are not on vacation and don't have anything scheduled ( so that they be tagged for investigation/fire )
b) They are actively investigating one or two individuals and don't want to raise any suspicion by sitting outside a single office.
c) Someone is interested in anonymous statistics ( i didn't have a look to see if his sheet was numbered ) on the average work hours of employees.
d) Our building is running low on space and they want to double up those who are rarely there / work opposing hours.
e) Some guy is just really bored and likes to walk around peeking into offices and scribbling on paper every hour.
Anyone know the real reason behind the hall monitor office statistics guy?
Whoa! I saw the same thing in B84 last week
Anonymous said...
Someone is walking the hallways and peering into offices and marking down if they are in. For the past week and 1/2 the same guy with headphones and a clipboard walks by every hour 9-5 and quickly glances left and right marking down who is in and who is not. He claims to be working for MSSpaces but we do not know his true purpose. This is in building 17.
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 1:21:00 AM
Microsoft Money is dead today. I'm not sure which braindead VP internally pushed this decision. For some reason, many of our top products aren't viable anymore while competition keeps innovating and pushing. How this came to be? How come we are refusing to compete on well performing products and pour billions in to stupid Zune at the same time? The person involved in this decision must be those old boneheads VP types with MBA and without any balls, vision or passion for challenge. He must be aching to get out of it and move in to retirement or join other team to screw around from scratch. In that case they should join "Solution delivery" group in MSIT - our official retirement oasis where dollars are top for everyone and there is no work other than the one you create for yourself. There are no technical skills required to get hired here because you are not supposed to write any code or test or write spec. You still get to be PRINCIPLE level even in IC roles by *default* for your retirement level experience and "wisdom". A rule of thumb in this group is to hire at least 5 "solution manager" at PRINCIPLE level for a punny 100% internal MSIT app that is used by less than 2000 internal employees. And if all these is not enough, this group was *most* protected group during layoffs! Who want to risk losing all these wisdom in "Solution delivery"? We better axe some L61 devs in COSD rather :). VP who killed MS Money should join this group and leave our products alone. People who are outside MSIT: this group is headed by shahla who was favorite of last CIO. It might pop your eyes out if you browse this org in headtrax by shear number of PRINCIPLEs, Directors and GMs designated for tiny internal MSIT apps mostly used internally or by partners. While browsing this org remember NO ONE in this org is ever expected to write or even touch single line of code, test case or specs or even manage detailed project plan. Don't ask me what they do because even they don't know!
Looks like MS India will lose heads during the next round as well. SMSG may not be affected though.
MGSI and GTSC seem to be on the hitlist...
I don't know SteveSi. Maybe he is the knight in shining armor who will keep the layoff dragon at bay as most of you seem to believe. Or maybe he's just another ruthless MS exec who is using you and will discard you once you've outlived your usefulness to him. My money is on the latter. .
.
SteveSi is the king of cost-cutting. I remember a while ago, he was giving a presentation and showed a slide about how people in his org cost MSFT 1/3 as much as people in any other org. He said this like it was a great thing. All I heard is that I was getting shafted--people elsewhere in the company were getting 3x as much as me in total compensation. Then he moved us to building 36, which has all the cost-efficiency and charm of a prison. I am not surprised he's on the short list of executives to emulate these days.
What's up with the nonsensical paranoia around feedback? Did people suddenly forget reviews are going on, and managers need feedback to make stack rank/promo decisions?
Professionalism pays off in the long run because it's a small world. People remembered me and I was able to get hired elsewhere pretty quickly.
Had MS showed me professionalism... Sure.
After decades at a company, I would expect more than the stump speach from some drone that didn't know me from a post hole.
The times leading up to 98 and W2k were amazing times. The kind of times where you know that your hours sleeping on a cot or forgetting your kids names were actually (in a sick way) supporting something you believed in.
If anyone still believes that now.. well..
The Jones cooler is a little to your left...
(Oh.. my unprofessionalism got me a gig.. Just waiting on start date.)
When I was pointed at the door there were many critical things left hanging that could not be transitioned in time... [etc.]
I think there are a couple of factors here that other respondents haven't considered.
First, if you were with Microsoft for a decent number of years, as it sounds like you were, then I'd presume you were recently handed a fair-sized chunk of severance money, and your survival probably doesn't depend on you finding a new job this week or next. (However, windfalls like that don't come along all that often in life, and you'd still probably be better off letting most of that money become part of your eventual retirement fund, rather than burning it off while you do work for free.)
Second, if you were laid off in the most recent round and I'm remembering the dates correctly, your WARN Act notification period isn't going to run out for another couple of weeks. During that time, you are -- at least from a legal standpoint -- still employed by Microsoft, you're still getting paid what you were before, and if you want to help your old teammates wrap up some stuff, there's no compelling reason why you shouldn't -- especially since you may have some restrictions on starting a new job during that time anyway. You're not getting "used" just yet.
However. The moment your 60 days are up, none of the above applies anymore. Anyone who asks you to do anything resembling free work from that day forward is indeed abusing your good nature, and you should tell them (politely) no. Better yet, just send the next person who asks you to perform additional favors a simple e-mail along the lines of "As of [date], I am no longer employed by Microsoft. If you still wish to make use of my services after this time, please have your manager contact me for information about my hourly rates and availability." Short, sweet, nothing personal, no hard feelings. But no misunderstandings or invitations to continue helping themselves to your time and talents free of charge, either.
Frankly, if they haven't managed to get things together after 60 days, they damn well ought to be paying you if they still need your help to resolve the problem. Do not waste a single second worrying about the effect this might have on anyone's morale or reputation. They dumped you; that's their burden to bear, not yours.
Moreover, out in the wide world beyond Microsoft, crap like this happens all the time. People get laid off, they come back and consult for a little while, no big deal. Frankly, if some middle management type has successfully converted you from a full-time employee, earning a salary plus bonuses plus an expensive basket of benefits, to a short-term contractor with no benefits who only gets paid on an as-needed basis, I don't think he's going to lose a whole lot of sleep wondering what others might think about that. If the current prime directive for those people is cost-cutting, then mission accomplished.
And if people in the hallways are going to grumble that the wrong people got cut, well, they were going to do that anyway. It's happened after every layoff in history, and it always will. Mostly, though -- and mark my words well here -- they're just going to be glad it was you who got cut and not them, no matter how illogical or wrong-headed the decision may have been. So don't sweat it. These people's morale is no longer your concern. Focus on your own morale, and do what benefits you.
"..... clearly the layoff rumors are just rumors. because if these rumors were coming from a knowledgable person, it would not have date of jun 30."
Well, I guess the person spreading these rumors is more knowledgeable than you. Fiscal year ends 3rd-July.
MSFT stock @ $23.25 today. What's going on? Are we shipping win7 a month too soon.
Why all this optimism in wall st. about MS stock?
check it out - http://mini-microsoft-gtsc-india.blogspot.com/
"MS stock went up to $22.55 today while dow jones fell 24 points. What's going on?"
Ballmer about to "spend more time with his family"?
Anyone know the real reason behind the hall monitor office statistics guy?.
My best guess. This is a position paid out of the Economic Stimulus package. Busy work.
OTOH, if this guy is indeed keeping an eye on people w.r.t their office presence, I don't think Microsoft is that stupid. People don't have to be in their office to get work done thanks to ubiquitous wireless across campus and VPN. Some people get a lot of their work done in meetings etc. Microsoft is not a factory floor where you have to punch your card and physically be there to get work done.
SteveSi is the king of cost-cutting. I remember a while ago, he was giving a presentation and showed a slide about how people in his org cost MSFT 1/3 as much as people in any other org. He said this like it was a great thing. All I heard is that I was getting shafted--people elsewhere in the company were getting 3x as much as me in total compensation. Then he moved us to building 36, which has all the cost-efficiency and charm of a prison. I am not surprised he's on the short list of executives to emulate these days.
Well I guess my friends in WEX are going to wake up with a sore behind one of these mornings since most of them seem to believe that Sinofsky is the love child of Ghandi and Mother Theresa. What a disappointment it will be for them to find out that he's actually the adopted son of Steve Ballmer and Kevin Turner.
MSFT stock @ $23.25 today. What's going on? Are we shipping win7 a month too soon.
Why all this optimism in wall st. about MS stock?.
In case you forgot, MSFT hasn't recovered as much as most other big cap tech stocks. Despite all the problems we discuss here, Microsoft generates huge profits (per share), is reasonably valued (compared to many other companies out there), is cash rich (as opposed to being deep in debt like IBM or GE), and pays a reasonable dividend (> 2%, which is better than short term treasury returns). With all of these in its favor, I'm surprised MSFT is still struggling in the low 20s. Nobody said the stock market is rational.
Take a step back and consider how Microsoft is transforming itself. It is cutting costs (we as employees don't like it, but shareholders do, if it is construed as a move made from a position of strength); it is releasing a host of product upgrades on its cash cows and receiving good press on the flag ship product -- Windows 7; it is fighting back with new gaming initiatives; it is attempting a comeback in the Search space (ignore Google for a while; Yahoo! could lose some market share to Bing) where it was left for dead.
Some of the above attempts may not mean much, but it will take several months before we find out how many of these will be successful and how many will fizzle. This is the hallmark of a company that apparently got the message and is taking risks. There is little to lose and much to gain. Investors love such situations, so watch out -- MSFT is poised to out perform the market. Stock price is about the future, not the past.
your WARN Act notification period isn't going to run out for another couple of weeks. During that time, you are -- at least from a legal standpoint -- still employed by Microsoft
Dude - you are dead wrong. You obviously havent read anyone's termination letter. Mine clearly stated that "All responsibilities end on May 6" - although I lost my corpnet access only on may 8 and warn act period for me ends on july 4th.
To the guy who is getting requests for work - you're almost acting like a complete pushover. Why the hell would you help folks who fired you? You need to take a good sleep and move on. If it helps - go on a week long vacation with no access to internet. If you're looking for a job, try putting all your time and energy with DBM guys - rather than your old team's clowns - who dont seem to have a sense that it is unethical to ask for favors/work from a terminated employee without paying him.
Personally I am taking some time off - living off unemployment benefits - while trying to ponder what i want to do next. My (former) team is fast becoming a distant memory in my mind. In fact I'm somehow liking this time, when i have time to think, not having to worry about stupid status reports, numerous wasteful meetings, fire drills etc etc. Times like these dont come often. Feels somewhat like paid vacation.
Just curious... why is jawadk still employed? What could he possibly be doing as a cvp with no reports? I noticed a few other execs in that same situation. Are they just collecting a fat paycheck for doing nothing?
If it is acceptable for people to volunteer for non-profits while they are in the WARN period, then why should there be a problem volunteering to work at a for-profit firm?
Because it is against federal law for a for-profit company to use volunteer labor. It's analogous to Wal-Mart requiring employees put in unpaid hours.
Smells like age discrimination ... Its been 5 weeks since being layed off. I'm thinking more and more that there is a bit of age discrimination going on. People who have been laid off seem to have been at MS 8-12 years and either approaching or into their forties.
At least the weather has been awesome since the layoff.
things are definitely going on bizarre here at cosd, tons of mq bugs are being closed out as won't fix or not repro to clear the plate. boss has asked everyone to hit the upload button no later than eow to get this factored in the cali. if at all, we will see.
And next week, SMSG and C&O are merged together in one group. More layoffs to come, this time mostly in subsidiaries, area HQ and timezone HQ - touching marketing and business management the most. All-hands meetings booked in most subs/groups already, RIF-conversations to start immediately and individually after the all-hands have taken place.
RE: the hall monitor/headphones guyin B17
I've heard a bunch of people are moving around in a few buildings, possibly Buildings 16, 17, and 18. Maybe that's what's going down?
Every time I've moved, there are lots of folks buzzing around, writing stuff down, and sometimes peering in offices. It could always be a black helicopter (checking up on employees) situation, especially these days, but IMHO a pending move would be the more plausible theory.
Hilarious how everytime the stock price falls, everybody seems to know the exact reason why, and then when it goes up, everybody seems to have no idea why.
Hmmm.
How should you approach the review process if you KNOW your manager is preparing to fire you for poor performance?
Is there still any way to view the review process as a constructive way to learn and grow, even when you know that the end-game is termination?
Actually, this raises a good point: can management use reviews as a tool to help in terminations?
MSFT stock @ $23.25 today. What's going on? Are we shipping win7 a month too soon.
Why all this optimism in wall st. about MS stock?
My guess is because Wall Street likes the house cleaning that is going on.
I can understand the removal of "non-essential" products. I don't understand the firing of people with proven track records. The company is going to be only as good as the people that work in it, and the environment within it.
Sadly, all this means is that Microsoft is committing corporate hara kiri.
The minor bump in stock price is very typical of the short-term effect of the house-cleaning. Once the big investors have unloaded the stock, to break even or minimize loss, so begins the decline towards Microsoft's final resting place, extinction. That is inevitable.
We are watching in realtime latter stages of Stage 4 of How the Mighty Fall?
"Actually, this raises a good point: can management use reviews as a tool to help in terminations?"
Uh, sure. Any documented communication between manager and employee can (and is) used as a tool to help support the case for termination.
I have a guy who needs to go -- he's just not getting it and he's now starting to impact the larger team. I've been capturing his performance in mail and will, of course, use the review to continue that documentation.
two things contributed to the MSFT stock rise: Bing and Windows 7. The street is finally seeing that we are correcting the mistakes of Vista, and there is a hope for MS to catch up with Google, who's search biz is already bigger than Windows 7 biz.
Just curious... why is jawadk still employed? What could he possibly be doing as a cvp with no reports? I noticed a few other execs in that same situation. Are they just collecting a fat paycheck for doing nothing?
I think they are waiting for their stock option grant to be cashed in August. SanjayP is doing the same things after randomizing a large number of projects in SBA.
Hilarious how everytime the stock price falls, everybody seems to know the exact reason why, and then when it goes up, everybody seems to have no idea why
SteveB is doing his job. After cutting 5000 people, hiring Qi Lu to ship Bing, and tapping SteveSi and Jon to ship Windows 7, you should give credit to SteveBi! If he can fix Windows Mobile 7, MSFT will rise to $45 again!
why is jawadk still employed? What could he possibly be doing as a cvp with no reports? I noticed a few other execs in that same situation. Are they just collecting a fat paycheck for doing nothing?
As a rule, anyone who is at the level of a corporate partner or above is given a year's grace to try and find themselves a new role if they are "fired". They will have an office, but no responsibilities.
They also get to negotiate sweet severance packages on their way out. This isn't really all that different from how most corporations handle terminations of senior staff. High level staffers know where all the skeletons are burried (and what the strategies are), and no company wants to tick them off when letting them go.
I know the "James Whittaker went to Google - who cares" posts were a week or two ago, but I just found out that another high profile tester (well - as high profile as SDETs can get) is talking seriously with the big G. I can't tell if it's anything to worry about, but wanted to ask if anyone thinks MS cares about losing high level SDETs.
I think the answer is "No" (or f*** no), but I thought it was worthwhile to ask.
Just curious... why is jawadk still employed?
because jawad knows where the dead bodies are at ...
Microsoft is not a factory floor where you have to punch your card and physically be there to get work done.
Speak for yourself. It SHOULD NOT be, but for some unfortunate people reporting to exceedingly poor managers who don't understand how tech work gets done and who don't have it in them to trust the people who work for them, it is.
A priceless story follows. "My flight from LAX back to Seattle was cancelled due to equipment problems and I won't be able to get back until noon. I'd like to WAH Monday morning before the flight to get some things done so I stay on schedule, is that OK?". A manager replied that since it's not really vacation because it wasn't requested from me in advance, I suppose taking half a day of sick leave is acceptable under the circumstances. For as much abuse of WAH goes on on the employee side, there are many managers who abuse it by not allowing it on an ad-hoc basis by people who don't do it often enough to need a formalized agreement, too.
Once Steven (don't call him Steve!) gets promoted to VP Windows he will undoubtedly take a close look at COSD.
I sure hope so since the Test and to a lesser degree the PM teams are underleveled by comparison to WEX. I expect the Director job title to go away, a flattening of the org and general re-org joy but I wonder if there will be some right-sizing or if WEX will simply join the fold and rule the roost.
Why isn't HR sharing raw MS poll numbers this year? Didn't they always post an excel sheet with the raw numbers. All hands vaguely discuss items that changed significantly without any real numbers. This secrecy makes it seem worse than it actually is.
To top it off LisaB posts a blog entry celebrating about numbers that went up.
This is the hallmark of a company that apparently got the message and is taking risks. There is little to lose and much to gain. Investors love such situations, so watch out -- MSFT is poised to out perform the market. Stock price is about the future, not the past.
The person who wrote this has got to be a manager. Because what I hear and to some extent see from the ground doesn't match this pollyanish account of the transformations taking place at Microsoft.
I used to be a Microsoft employee. I left a few years ago and since then I have interviewed quite a few microsoftees. Until last year the quality of those candidates was usually pretty bad. I'm not saying they all were lame. There was the occasional gem but you could tell most of them were leaving Microsoft because they didn't have what it takes to succeed there.
It all changed with the layoffs. When we heard about it, our first reaction was "oh great, more no hires on the way". Boy were we wrong. Most laid off microsoftees turned out to meet our hiring bar. We rarely see any duds anymore.
The trend I see is that most laid off employees were ICs with years of service close to or in the double digit range. And that leads me to believe MSFT is setting itself up for trouble.
People like those being fired are the lifeblood of a company. They're experienced and they do the actual work that gets products out the door! I have heard stories about teams where half the ICs are now gone and the management structure (which was bloated in the first place) has been left untouched. So unless the SLT has decided that from now on MSFT will sell "strategies" and power point presentations I don't see how it can possibly get better. A company with an ever increasing problem to ship on time fires its ICs and keep the managers who have been doing such a bang up job so far. Call me a pessimist but it doesn't smell like a recipe for success.
I am one of the MS1400 laid off and looking to the community for hope and inspiration.
Despite tireless efforts, and (in theory) strong qualifications and experience (MBA and 15 years high tech marketing), I am unable to find a new job (yet).
Never unemployed, 15+ years steady income and consistent wages. I live within my means and purchased an affordable home in the Seattle area 5 years ago .
Thanks to the layoff, I now find myself in an unimaginable place. My mortgage is 95% of my unemployment insurance payment.
Thinking people like me through no fault of their own have lost their jobs, I am pursuing the Obama Making Home Affordable program.
I am unable to get my questions answered by my servicer, Chase (deplorable service, stay away)...
It's an endless cycle - Thanks to Microsoft's layoff, I am unable to refinance my loan and told my only resource is a Making Home Affordable modification.
BUT since I'm unemployed, even with savings I can't get a loan modification.. because my only income is unemployment insurance (although I'd desperately like to be back in the world contributing and working)
Ask - any laid off Microsoft workers successful in securing a loan modification thru Making Home Affordable?
Does your lender recognize unemployment insurance as income for a loan modification?
Thank you
Are WEX and COSD the only divisions to be hit in the apparently rumoured next round or are there any other divisions being hit as well...?
http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/06/09/was-the-bingathon-a-success
MSFT stock @ $23.25 today. What's going on? Are we shipping win7 a month too soon.
Why all this optimism in wall st. about MS stock?
It would have nothing to do with cutting costs, the release of four major products this year, and news of yet another to supplement the entertainment division.. No, because if your company is successful, that means something must be wrong. Perhaps rethink your employment, you won't be missed.
re "Microsoft Money is dead today."
About %^%#@%#$@ time! I've been using your product for more than a year between unpredictable crashes, data resets and passwords that stopped working for no apparent reason. Last month I switched to a web-based FREE service (plenty to go around) haven't had a problem since. Why don't you start from caring about what you produce instead of blaming reality for a change?
>>Are WEX and COSD the only divisions to be hit in the apparently rumoured next round or are there any other divisions being hit as well...?
DevDiv will be as well since VS10 is getting done.
I have heard stories about teams where half the ICs are now gone and the management structure (which was bloated in the first place) has been left untouched.
I agree 100%. In my org IC's were hit and management (higher levels) were not touched.
It would have nothing to do with cutting costs, the release of four major products this year, and news of yet another to supplement the entertainment division.
I'm the op. I was wondering because in the past few years "new releases" hardly mattered for the stock price. And the brief jump stock had into thirties early last year was killed by the ill-conceived yahoo proposal.
Ask - any laid off Microsoft workers successful in securing a loan modification thru Making Home Affordable?
I dont have a mortgage, but my suggestion is that you need to re-calculate the numbers. Do you have enough money to ride through, if you dont land a job in next 6-12 months? Spending 95% of unemployment on mortgage seems too much. Do you have any potential alternative incomes?
If I were you and I didnt have 9 months of savings in bank, I'd switch to 'extreme money saver' mode. I'd stop making payments to bank. In fact another colleague of mine who has mortgage from Chase told me that that bank advised him that they cannot enroll him in Obama's plan, unless he is behind on payments. Once he is 2-3 payments behind, they said they'd work with him.
If you get a job in next 6 months - you could still talk to bank and work something out. If you dont land a job in near future, you wont regret missing those payments to the bank. I've also heard that due to deluge of foreclosures, it is taking 18 months to evict. So that time you can stay at your home for "free".
What I'm suggesting is not highly ethical for some folks, but it is pretty high on common sense.
Another alternative is a short sale (provided you have some equity in house) and rent. It wont dent your credit history and will allow you to downsize in this tough environment.
Good luck.
Best of luck to all those who want to see the stack rank go away. The Jack Welch luv-a-thon continues and even intensifies:
'It's Everybody's Business': Microsoft launches reality show
Is MS working with more than one ad agency? I thought they were working with Crispin Porter Bogusky but the one cited in the article is a different one. It's got to be an improvement. I hope.
@June 14, 2009 2:15:00 PM
I can't answer your question -- I'm another of the 1400, but I sold my house because I feared being where you are -- but I empathize.
I've also turned over every rock, wrung every bit of direction out of my network and done everything I can think of to find a new job, and I've had no luck.
It's frustrating that Microsoft finally chose to "right-size" at a time when there's nowhere for the screwed people to land.
You're not the only one in that "unimaginable place."
May something better be out there for all of us soon, and may the comeuppance for the SLT exceed our wildest expectations.
I'm tired of all the whining on this blog.
Look guys - MS is not a charity org. It is driven by profit/dominance and is answerable only to shareholders. Ballmer has put on a lot of fat and it is only logical that that fat be trimmed from the organization. So non-strategic or overlapping products (money etc) needed to go. What's wrong with it?
Also I am skeptical of all the folks who come here and state that they have a 'proven track record' and gold stars etc etc. I've seen some folks like that, and they no longer seem motivated. Track record is good, but we're paying for the 'current' salaries and 'future potential', not track record. Also in many cases, it might be just that the job you have may not be required after all, regardless of your track record.
I'm a firm believer that we need to cut fat. Any type of layoffs will generate some sort of grunt, so I really wish when Ballmer comes with next round (on june 30?) - he really fires more than what is being rumored currently (I'd like >3000).
We can rebuild org healh scores later, but first Microsoft needs to be lean and mean again.
To top it off LisaB posts a blog entry celebrating about numbers that went up.
Typical managerial smoke and mirror procedure. Reminds me of my trip to car dealership - where environment was artifically cheerful.
To the person who wrote:
I am one of the MS1400 laid off and looking to the community for hope and inspiration.
Despite tireless efforts, and (in theory) strong qualifications and experience (MBA and 15 years high tech marketing), I am unable to find a new job (yet).
Never unemployed, 15+ years steady income and consistent wages. I live within my means and purchased an affordable home in the Seattle area 5 years ago .
Thanks to the layoff, I now find myself in an unimaginable place. My mortgage is 95% of my unemployment insurance payment.
Thinking people like me through no fault of their own have lost their jobs, I am pursuing the Obama Making Home Affordable program.
I am unable to get my questions answered by my servicer, Chase (deplorable service, stay away)...
It's an endless cycle - Thanks to Microsoft's layoff, I am unable to refinance my loan and told my only resource is a Making Home Affordable modification.
BUT since I'm unemployed, even with savings I can't get a loan modification.. because my only income is unemployment insurance (although I'd desperately like to be back in the world contributing and working)
Ask - any laid off Microsoft workers successful in securing a loan modification thru Making Home Affordable?
Does your lender recognize unemployment insurance as income for a loan modification?
---------
I am truly sorry to hear about your situation. These are difficult times. You might want to contact the Dave Ramsey show to get advise.
If there is any consolation here is my situation:
I was let go from MSFT last November without any severance, COBRA, or any of the benefits that most of you got. MSFt kept my last paycheck to pay AMEX business related expenses.
I have not been able to find another job since November, and I as well have a strong management consulting background. Prior to jumping ship to Microsoft, I was a top performer at IBM. I also graduated from an IVY League School in the North East.
Tomorrow I'm going to apply for foodstamps for me and my 12 y/o daughter, as I have run down my saving to $0. My Mercedez-Benz got repoed so now I ride a bicycle. If I don't get a job by end of this month, my daughter and I have to go a homeless shelter. The only entertainment that my daughter had (XBox) broke down and in order to get it fixed I have to send it to MSFT along with $100 which I don't have, so the kid doesn't have any entertainment.
My advise to those of you who have not looked for work yet, is that is rough out there, and should start your search promptly and stretch the severance money you got. The job sites like Dice, Monster, etc. don't work anymore. The whole job search thing has changed.
Will I recommend MSFT products to anyone? Hell NO. I did an analysis and in reality people/business can do without MSFT products (ubuntu, OpenOffice, Google Apps).
Good luck to you all.
Why isn't HR sharing raw MS poll numbers this year? Didn't they always post an excel sheet with the raw numbers.
It takes all of thirty seconds to find the spreadsheet from Lisa's blog post
No hire.
my manager told me i am getting A10 today ...
been having the "need to improve" message for the last 3-4 weeks.
it was not "formal"
As far as the rally in MSFT stock goes, by far the biggest factor is that the broader markets are rallying. Most stocks have risen substantially in recent months, so it shouldn't come as a surprise to see MSFT stock gain too.
Unfortunately, I doubt this good fortune will last. We are just in the eye of this economic hurricane right now. Bear market rallies are always the most dramatic, and this rally will most likely be undone (and then some) late this year or in 2010.
If global stocks (and economies) tank in 2010, we will almost certainly see additional announcements of lay-offs at MSFT. Management simply cannot stand by and do nothing if revenue shrinks. Win7 and Office 14 may be good products, but a contracting global economy will take the wind out of the sales channel regardless.
Are lower level managers ever made aware of impending lay-offs, or is this kept at the general manager level (and above) until the lay-offs actually take place?
What has happened in the lay-offs to date? Were mid-level managers ever consulted as to who they felt should get the pink slips on their teams?
Bing has delivered. Search was late in business compared to GOOG, at least it has made some people worried http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,526483,00.html.
WinMo had pretty good and long head start, has nothing to show for quite some time going forward. It is a non technical PM org now, good luck with that.
It's time to spin off WinMo and cut our losses. Instead of buying Yahoo, buy better company in Mobile space.
MSFT stock @ $23.25 today. What's going on? Are we shipping win7 a month too soon.
Why all this optimism in wall st. about MS stock?
Checkout this report by analyst:
http://www.iii.co.uk/news/?type=afxnews&articleid=7374127&subject=general&action=article
A big pc upgrade cycle is coming. Add to that cost savings from reduced workforce, and "some" traction in search market - you get a recipie for stock jump. Yesterday, msft was only one of the two stocks in dow30 to rise. My only concern is that Ballmer might spoil the party with another oversized bid for yahoo search - same way that he did last january.
Looks like the optimists are out and swinging today. Classic but not important in the long run. Those guys are typically middle managers sitting on a small stack of unvested shares. They'll cheer while those they consider cogs get the boot because they believe it will keep things going long enough for them to make some money. Fat chance boys. Don't think for a second that Kevin "Wal-Mart" Turner hasn't already figured out how he's going to do you.
Just stopped by B87. Looks like entire Zune org has been fired. Good riddance.
my manager told me i am getting A10 today ...
been having the "need to improve" message for the last 3-4 weeks.
it was not "formal"
-----------
Man - you've gotta start preparing for the upcoming layoffs and consequent loss in income. Look at some of the other posts from jan layoffs ( guy stuck with mortgage and another one with daughter going to homeless shelter). These seem to be true and really moving tales. Stock up your money, get rid of ALL unnecessary expenses, downsize - whatever you can do to survive - do it. Of course try to improve your performance too, but it seems like they've already marked you up for layoff. So a headstart on savings and frugal living might be a good thing to do at this time.
Question to Jan1400.
I've read some really moving stories on this blog and i know job market is in a tank right now. Here is my situation:
I got my pink slip in may round. My wife still works and i have insurance/ income from her. But we're afraid that she might get cut in the next round (she's in WEX).
I did some prelim analysis and we have cash cushion for almost a year. But should I start cutting anyway? We've got 2 cars, renting a high end unit have a small kid. Should i hit the "panic button" and sell one car, downgrade my apartment and lessen starbucks etc.? IF yes - what else can i do to save money - any suggestions?
Thanks.
Also I am skeptical of all the folks who come here and state that they have a 'proven track record' and gold stars etc etc. I've seen some folks like that, and they no longer seem motivated. Track record is good, but we're paying for the 'current' salaries and 'future potential', not track record.
Deny reality all you want, and it's still reality.
Shortly after the RIF that affected me, my former team moved forward on an idea I'd originated and evangelized for several months prior to layoff that will save the company 6 or 7 figures a year. That's an example of the current, not past, contribution ability, and strategic thinking future potential, of someone with the track record of doing similar things all along.
For perspective, although 6 or 7 figures per annum may seem minor to some, it depends on the group you're in. To the best of my knowledge, no other person on the team had ever put forth an idea that would save or earn the team an equivalent amount.
But if by "motivated" you mean, "willing to spend weekends at the office for 8-10 months at a time", then I must stand corrected. It took half a decade, but I eventually decided it was necessary to enforce a boundary between personal time and work time. The existence of that boundary does not mean that while I was at work I wasn't producing, optimizing, etc. with great zeal. Just that I want my weekends, k?
What you're saying is true for some people. It's well known in corporate America that many people who do one or two good things want to coast on them for decades. But for those who did those good things because we just get into achievement, pursuing challenges is a core personality trait that we couldn't switch off even if we tried.
As far as Microsoft workers go, my experience is that the coasters were never real standouts at the company, just 3.5ers at best, and career-long coasters at worst.
I was let go from MSFT last November without any severance, COBRA, or any of the benefits that most of you got. .
.
Since COBRA is federally mandated for employees who are voluntarily or involuntarily terminated for reasons other than gross misconduct, you seem to be admitting that you did something terrible that got you fired. That does not instill much sympathy.
Tomorrow I'm going to apply for foodstamps for me and my 12 y/o daughter, as I have run down my saving to $0. My Mercedez-Benz got repoed so now I ride a bicycle. If I don't get a job by end of this month, my daughter and I have to go a homeless shelter. The only entertainment that my daughter had (XBox) broke down .
.
You chose to have your "Mercedez" and XBox over food and shelter?
I have to assume your post is some kind of satire, maybe mocking a Microsoft stereotype of entitlement? I didn't find it very witty or insightful though...
May something better be out there for all of us soon, and may the comeuppance for the SLT exceed our wildest expectations.
That would never happen. I remember the architect of yahoo's disaster takeover offer - Kevin Johnson - when he left he was given entire "target" bonus. If i had done that blunder, i would have been promptly fired.
"my manager told me i am getting A10 today ...
been having the "need to improve" message for the last 3-4 weeks.
it was not "formal"
Your manager did you a favor by giving you a heads-up and not leaving you hanging -- it would be nice if more managers did such things.
Looks like it's happenning in COSD :( Leads and managers just got a two day training next week...
I have not been able to find another job since November, and I as well have a strong management consulting background. Prior to jumping ship to Microsoft, I was a top performer at IBM. I also graduated from an IVY League School in the North East.
My guess is that you are probably a troll. Either way, I find it hard to have compassion for you for two reasons:
1. You do seem to have a sense of entitlement.
2. Aren't Ivy League graduates in management consulting and their ilk in part responsible for the world economic downturn?
Didn't you guys present a myriad of powerpoints to managers eager to maximize short term profitability? How many jobs were destroyed as you recommended outsourcing and offshoring to the assembled beancounters?
MBAs in Management and Finance have long deserved a comeuppance. As an individual, you may be an okay guy. As a class, I can only hope that your jobs stay vanished.
"DevDiv will be as well since VS10 is getting done"
Any estimates on the numbers ? DevDiv was profitable right ?
What about STB as a whole and also Entertainment divisions (these were all profitable divisions right)?
Is it the IC's this time or management ?
"I have not been able to find another job since November, and I as well have a strong management consulting background. Prior to jumping ship to Microsoft, I was a top performer at IBM. I also graduated from an IVY League School in the North East.
Tomorrow I'm going to apply for foodstamps for me and my 12 y/o daughter, as I have run down my saving to $0. My Mercedez-Benz got repoed so now I ride a bicycle. If I don't get a job by end of this month, my daughter and I have to go a homeless shelter. The only entertainment that my daughter had (XBox) broke down and in order to get it fixed I have to send it to MSFT along with $100 which I don't have, so the kid doesn't have any entertainment."
I smell a lie -- I don't believe a word of this story. Too many flashy attention-grabbing details sprinkled throughout: the Ivy League education, the Benz, the Xbox that was the only entertainment the 12yo daughter had -- buddy, if you had a Benz and your daughter only had an Xbox to occupy her time, then you should lose custody.
This story is stinky fiction. I'm guessing most of the details are fake, and I'd wager if this guy actually worked for Microsoft at some point -- and was indeed fired as he claims -- he was likely fired for some heinous felony; which is why Mr. Ivy League/Top Prospect can't even find a job in food service to keep out of the shelter.
Look guys - MS is not a charity org. It is driven by profit/dominance and is answerable only to shareholders. Ballmer has put on a lot of fat and it is only logical that that fat be trimmed from the organization. So non-strategic or overlapping products (money etc) needed to go. What's wrong with it?
I'll tell you what's wrong with it. You admit that "Ballmer put on a lot of fat" yet he's still sitting pretty. He's the primary reason MSFT is in the state it is yet the peons are paying for HIS mistakes. I have yet to see anybody from the SLT (or even middle management in general) get the boot. The ICs are by far taking the biggest hit with these layoffs.
Even if you set aside the argument that the people who had the least control over the company's bone-headed strategies in the past ten years are the ones suffering the consequences of those mistakes, you've got to admit that making the company more top-heavy than it already was is probably not a good idea.
my manager told me i am getting A10 today ...
--
yes i got kimmed too, MSD
This thread has been quite interesting to read. I'm a Microsoft employee by way of acquisition, so it was interesting to go from an independent company that tried to use the most sensible technology for a particular task (e.g. Linux and Solaris for servers, Linux and Mac for development) to having to use Windows for everything, from embedded development to desktop apps to server apps; developing on Windows for Windows. This has certainly cost us many months in our schedule, and the final product is going to be worse because of it.
The main thing I've realized from the transition: Microsoft software just isn't very good. I knew this before, but I figured that if any IT department would know how to deploy MS technologies with the most success, it would be MSIT (you can stop snickering!) I'm basically happy with Windows 7 because it fixed the worst performance and usability problems of Vista, and I've been running it myself on all my PC's since the beta, but I wouldn't go back to Vista at this point because Vista sucks so bad in ways that 7 fixed, not because 7 is so awesome.
I'm typing this in Safari 4 on an iMac running Leopard. I only recently reacquainted myself with the Mac side of my two Apple computers after realizing that I really wanted to get an iPhone 3G S, and to play around with its SDK, which only runs on Mac OS. I could get reimbursed for my cellular plan if I get a Windows Mobile phone, and yet there isn't a single WM phone that I could ever imagine wanting to own. Not one. Much less write apps for it in my free time. Even the fonts on most websites look nicer on OS X (you also get real Helvetica, not knock-off Arial or whatever other font gets substituted on Windows).
Win32 is also a horrible set of API's from a developer perspective. My first encounter with the Windows API's was around 1995 with Programming Windows by Charles Petzold. At the time, my impression was that it seemed like a huge amount of work (in terms of both LOC and having to remember lots of stupid details) to accomplish relatively simple tasks. I hold this view even more strongly today.
Reading Raymond Chen's blog (and book) was also an eye-opener. To get confirmation that there are so many layers of hacks for backwards compatibility to support very badly written apps sprinkled throughout the system explained a lot. From the Microsoft code that I've been working with since the acquisition, I can see that a lot of it is really very poorly written on the inside as well.
.NET is fairly cool, and I think that in many respects C#/.NET is a better platform than Java, but Win32 and the layers immediately above it are just awful. Xbox is the most interesting OS to me because it's the least related to Windows, and I have no reason to believe the DirectX API's are as ugly as the legacy USER.DLL/GDI.DLL stuff that I'm primarily talking about. And shoehorning that giant mess of APIs onto embedded devices is a crime in itself.
Which brings me to WinMo. I've been quite interested in the happenings in the mobile space for at least the past five years, and I have no clue WTF should be done with WinMo. Giving up and spinning it off is clearly not an option, considering SteveB's slavish devotion to Windows and all it represents. They tried the "buy a company that knows what they're doing" strategy with Danger: we'll see what happens with that union, but they're most likely a side-bet that won't address the real problem of what the hell to do with the much larger and completely adrift WM organization. The comment about WinMo being "a non technical PM org" is consistent with what I've heard, and explains a lot. It certainly shows in the product.
I think that Windows, the source of MSFT's mighty revenues, is at the same time the cancer that will bring it down in the end. Hopefully I will have moved on to a better company by then, and once again working on technologies and products that I actually have a passion for.
MR/MRS A10 .. you got the bit flipped?
Age discrimination? Of course it is. Some HiPo MBA has run the actuarial analysis and determined how much money can be saved by reducing median age of workforce. This in turn is implemented thru direct HR engagement in choosing the next lot of victims.
I'll tell you what's wrong with it. You admit that "Ballmer put on a lot of fat" yet he's still sitting pretty. He's the primary reason MSFT is in the state it is yet the peons are paying for HIS mistakes. I have yet to see anybody from the SLT (or even middle management in general) get the boot. The ICs are by far taking the biggest hit with these layoffs.
I have to agree with you. I've put it across previously too, if it were any other company - the CEO, chairman, president would have been fired. But for some reason, Ballmer seems to escape all the time. Not even a single shareholder asks for his removal.
I guess the reason is that BillG and SteveB still hold about 16-18% shares and all analysts see it as a Bill and Steve's company.
I am not defending Ballmer, and in fact I believe once he has done all the trimming, he should trim himself and most of the SLT too.
Looks like it's happenning in COSD :( Leads and managers just got a two day training next week...
Hmmm - If it's true, it is a sure shot sign of upcoming layoffs. Seems like June 30 date (as said by someone before) might be it. (This blog has become a pseudo official source of all layoff related information, since we wouldnt get it beforehand from MS management)
Good luck to all folks. Getting severance is good, but looking for job in this market is no fun.
From Tuesday, June 16, 2009 8:34:00 AM
Just stopped by B87. Looks like entire Zune org has been fired. Good riddance.
Zune team moved to a different building
I heard June 30th is the day for the next round. can someone confirm?
Subject: Giving feedback for my last shitty manager.
I'm in a great place now with a great manager, but last year (and the beginning of this year) I was stuck working for a really shitty mangager. Now it's review time, and I'm really struggling with how to feedback him. I find myself being pulled in three directions:
1) Just blast the fucker.
2) Just click "decline to give feeback" -- who cares, I'm bigger than that, walk away.
3) Give as honest, accurate, and fair an accounting as I can.
Hmmm. I can't decide -- what should I do?
New marketing campaign for IE8:
http://www.microsoft.com/australia/ie8/competition/default.aspx
... words can't describe the horror :)
"my manager told me i am getting A10 today ...
--
yes i got kimmed too, MSD"
Just because you get an A10 doesn't mean you've been kimmed -- you might just suck.
Most people who suck don't realize it, but in all of the calibration meetings I've been in the majority of A10s actually deserve U10s.
Microsoft is very conservative about giving-out "underperformed" -- we give out far too few of them because they force a discussion about termination timeline.
Should i hit the "panic button" and sell one car, downgrade my apartment and lessen starbucks etc.? IF yes - what else can i do to save money - any suggestions?
First of all, do not make any decision based on 'panic'. I highly recommend you the following book: "Your Money or Your Life" , http://tinyurl.com/lnbyg2
I did read it about twenty years ago. Without a doubt the most useful book I've read in my life. The tips on the book are more common sense than anything else. Read it, you will find out what works for you. It will change your habits for good. You will see results in a few months if you stick with the discipline. Life is good, very good actually.
Attention Enterprise Services employees: MariaMa's reign of terror is nearing its end. So take heart - better times are coming. Kathleen Hogan will be a breath of fresh air.
"This thread has been quite interesting to read. I'm a Microsoft employee by way of acquisition, so it was interesting to go from an independent company that tried to use the most sensible technology for a particular task (e.g. Linux and Solaris for servers, Linux and Mac for development) to having to use Windows for everything, from embedded development to desktop apps to server apps; developing on Windows for Windows."
Gee, thanks for the boring read.
IIRC, we have a somewhat vested interest in Apple. We gave them around 50mil a few years ago so they wouldnt tank, bc around 85 percent of software running on a Mac is ours.
BTW, I hear acquisition groups may be in the next round..
Just stopped by B87. Looks like entire Zune org has been fired. Good riddance.
They just moved to Studios West.
Another key person rumored leaving MS is Xuedong Huang, the leader of Response Point that was cut in this round of layoff.
This is not a rumor. XD will leave SBA to work for Satya Nadella in OSD to help Microsoft's overall mobile search and advertising efforts. It is great that XD is not leaving Microsoft!
Does anyone know what happens during lay-offs if a given group that needs to elimate positions has both outstanding job openings and some slackers they want to get rid of? Would they just close the unfilled positions and keep the dead-beats on the payroll, for future termination?
Or maybe groups make a point of clearing out all the dead wood in the weeks leading up to a lay-off, to ensure they don't have to give big pay-outs to poor performers.
MR/MRS A10 .. you got the bit flipped?
seems like they did.
OP said: I'm typing this in Safari 4 on an iMac running Leopard. I only recently reacquainted myself with the Mac side of my two Apple computers after realizing that I really wanted to get an iPhone 3G S, and to play around with its SDK, which only runs on Mac OS. I could get reimbursed for my cellular plan if I get a Windows Mobile phone, and yet there isn't a single WM phone that I could ever imagine wanting to own. Not one. Much less write apps for it in my free time.
I recently logged onto my MS employee account at Safari books, and they now list the most popular books by fellow Microsoft employees. The first one listed? Developing iPhone Apps! I have to admit that I was logging on to Safari to find that book myself. That cannot be good.
Lump Sum Payment - Can someone in the May 2009 layoff comment on what your lump sum payment was?
I am not looking for explicit amounts, rather what you got paid for. i.e. [60-days pay] plus [1-week Pay per 6mo period] plus [80% annual bonus] plus [Cobra pay].
Is the 60-days pay the same as the "paid administrative leave"?
Not sure if it's related to the rumor. Last week managers in wex just had each group give a 30-min presentation to sell their vision/planning for win8. At the end they had the managers to vote (each manager can cast up to 5 votes). It's said those who received less than 20 votes might face a danger...
Don't be an idiot. They haven't.
> Just stopped by B87. Looks like entire Zune org has been fired. Good riddance.
I did some prelim analysis and we have cash cushion for almost a year. But should I start cutting anyway? We've got 2 cars, renting a high end unit have a small kid. Should i hit the "panic button" and sell one car, downgrade my apartment and lessen starbucks etc.? IF yes - what else can i do to save money - any suggestions?
Yes, yes, a thousand times yes! These would be obvious steps to take if one of you were laid off no matter WHAT the economy is like! So of course with the current economic situation, you should be cutting back as much as possible. It's probably going to be hard to adjust from having 2 incomes to just 1, so cutting as many expenses as possible should help.
I did some prelim analysis and we have cash cushion for almost a year. But should I start cutting anyway? We've got 2 cars, renting a high end unit have a small kid. Should i hit the "panic button" and sell one car, downgrade my apartment and lessen starbucks etc.? IF yes - what else can i do to save money - any suggestions?
If you got a job in Seattle, you could also find a place to live close to the light rail link and use it to commute to work. It goes from the airport into downtown Seattle starting Saturday, July 18th.
You would not get stuck in traffic and it would make it easier to sell one of the cars.
http://www.soundtransit.org/x10828.xml
If you drink a lot of coffee, you can get a $20 coffee grinder and a thermos or thermal carafe (at home) and skip Starbucks. Set the timer on the drip coffee maker at night and its ready in the morning. Put it in the thermos or thermal carafe (as soon as possible).
If your family watches TV, you can check how far you are from the transmitters (antennaweb.org) and get an antenna and signal booster if you're close enough ( www.antennasdirect.com ). TV stations are broadcasting HD digital TV signals.
A Roku Digital Video Player (or similar device) will let you watch video-on-demand from Netflix and Amazon over the Internet. That way you're only paying for movies when you actually watch them.
There's also hulu.com.
You can then drop the cable and/or satellite service.
AT&T Wireless has a Go Phone plan where you just pay $3 per day on the days you use your cell phone.
If you have a land line, Verizon has a local only plan you can use if your cell service quality is good enough for long distance.
Instead of dining out often, there are plenty of free cooking videos on Youtube you can use. If you eat rice, getting a rice cooker (e.g. Zojirushi) makes it easy.
Safeway, Albertson's, etc. allow you to shop online for groceries. It's easier to keep track of what you're spending if you do your grocery shopping online. It saves time too.
If you have a laptop, the King County public libraries (e.g downtown Bellevue) have free high speed Internet. Your laptop will connect to their network over wireless. If you have wired Internet service at home, you can drop the wireless Internet service if you have it.
Things are too quiet and this is scaring the hell out of me. June 30th is going to be the big one, I just know it. Why don't they just go and get this over with already. I think I am going to have a nervous breakdown.
Things are too quiet and this is scaring the hell out of me. June 30th is going to be the big one, I just know it. Why don't they just go and get this over with already. I think I am going to have a nervous breakdown.
Because that's the goal. To get as many people sick as they can, with the hopes the weak will leave on their own and save on severance packages. It's survival of the fittest at this point.
Lump Sum Payment - Can someone in the May 2009 layoff comment on what your lump sum payment was?
I am not looking for explicit amounts, rather what you got paid for. i.e. [60-days pay] plus [1-week Pay per 6mo period] plus [80% annual bonus] plus [Cobra pay].
OK - I can help you with that (although you seem to know almost all of it already). Here is what you get:
1) 60 days salary ( warn act)
2) 1 week for each 6 months (if you didnt work for exactly 4.5 years etc , they will round off to the nearest 6 months no.)
3) Your accrued vacation (but not the floating or sick holidays)
4) 80% target bonus
5) Your cobra coverage amount for next 2 months and the weeks you accrue by the length of your tenure at ms (i.e. cobra amount ms would have paid for the time for item 1 and 2)
6) 35% tax allowance for cobra money in item 5.
Those are exactly the items on my severance check.
Also if you get pink slip, do not sign up for cobra (provided you are in good health) - even if you've to pay for only 35% of it. It is just too expensive. If you are in good health, there are cheaper alternatives around.
One last advice - Get all medical/dental work done, if you think you might get laid off on june 30th. That includes regular medical/dental/gyne visits, teeth whitening, any pending invasive/non-invasive procedures, filling prescriptions - basically anything you can think of. Dont let the thought 'I'm too busy' get into your way of making medical appointments. You'll be glad that you did it. If you are on the 'to be fired' list, the work that you do between now and june 30th does not matter. After getting laid off, each of those visits will cost money from your pocket and will really pinch you.
Or maybe groups make a point of clearing out all the dead wood in the weeks leading up to a lay-off, to ensure they don't have to give big pay-outs to poor performers.
Depends on the "funding rate" for the group. Some groups (like resource point) were completely eliminated - so everyone would get boot (except for one or two folks for sustained engineering work). If you are on a team that is identified to have "reduced funding rate" - then the layoffs will depend on the reduction in funding rate.
The layoffs happened in one shot. No slackers were fired before that. But on the D-day - a lot of slackers and non-slackers got the boot in my group.
Now it's review time, and I'm really struggling with how to feedback him. I find myself being pulled in three directions:
1) Just blast the fucker.
2) Just click "decline to give feeback" -- who cares, I'm bigger than that, walk away.
3) Give as honest, accurate, and fair an accounting as I can.
Hmmm. I can't decide -- what should I do?
Go with Number 2. As they say: "If you can't say something nice about someone then don't say anything"
The environment at MS can get the worst out of people as you and so many others have seen and witnessed. So Don't let that nasty MS environment poison your soul. You will feel better in the long run and your soul will heal quicker.
I was in that situation. I did not write any feedback, so I just ignored it. I met the guy around the city a year later, I greeted him - he did look at me, did not respond, he was clearly angry, bitter; not me. Later I found out he had been ousted from MS.
There is no way they're announcing layoffs 3 days from Fiscal Year End. No way.
These last 2 layoffs were so unsettling and disruptive to everyone left @ MS, that it would run the risk of FTE's not focusing on deals and possibly leaving or increasing the amount of RLOT.
To the person who was rocking that Maria will be out. MCS has s*cked to be in since she took over - and before that in CSNA as well.
"Things are too quiet and this is scaring the hell out of me. June 30th is going to be the big one, I just know it. Why don't they just go and get this over with already. I think I am going to have a nervous breakdown."
For the love of Christ, get a grip on yourself. This I'm living in a state of constant terror is getting to be ridiculous.
Subject: Giving feedback for my last shitty manager.
I'm in a great place now with a great manager, but last year (and the beginning of this year) I was stuck working for a really shitty mangager. Now it's review time, and I'm really struggling with how to feedback him. I find myself being pulled in three directions:
1) Just blast the fucker.
2) Just click "decline to give feeback" -- who cares, I'm bigger than that, walk away.
3) Give as honest, accurate, and fair an accounting as I can.
Hmmm. I can't decide -- what should I do?
Give them honest feedback. However, dont forget that more often than not, you have a definite role to play in this shitty situation. Nonetheless, they did make your life miserable, had more than their share of wrong decisions which affected you daily, assigned work without understanding what the heck needs to be done, were probably not a great motivator and leader. A good manager wouldn't let these things happen. Your new group and new manager are testament to this fact. You should give your managers fair feedback so the same doesn't happen to some other poor fella. Also note that depending on how many reports your manager had, your feedback may not be truly anonymous. Irrespective, good managers make a good team and you should make sure your manager gets his share of justice.
"my manager told me i am getting A10 today ...
--
yes i got kimmed too, MSD"
Just because you get an A10 doesn't mean you've been kimmed -- you might just suck.
--------
Your an ACE aren't you :) OR the person may simply not be politically connected or cause too much fear in their managers peers who don't like the competition.
Keep it real San Diego
Other ways to save on everyday things, for Microsofties with a newfound desire to be thrifty:
Bank of America will waive monthly fees and possibly even overdraft fees for unemployed customers for three months. That said, a credit union's probably a better bet, but if you're really attached to B of A, that's the deal they offer.
Amazon offers a "subscribe and save" discount if you subscribe to deliveries of food (usually by the case) from amazon.com. You can cancel your subscription after your first delivery, so there's really no risk. I got used to it when I was so busy that it was nice for food to come to me without my even having to think to order it. Now I use it because it saves money. I've never been one for "status shopping". I visit Grocery Outlet when I'm in Lynnwood, both for prices and because they occasionally have interesting products (non-local store brands, unusual canned veggies and sauces, etc) not normally found in this area.
Subscribe to Borders mailing list in order to keep your tech reading up to date; they often send out coupons for 20-40% off one or more items. Why not learn a new skill as cheap insurance?
If you're still employed, or have a spouse who is an FTE, learn to love the Prime Card's 2-for-1 main course offers when you go out to eat. Browse the prime card site regularly, know what's there, and use it.
This is a little bit more painful than the ideas above, if you like your cable. If you're in a Comcast area, look into "limited basic cable". I recommend the channel master grid antennas for over the air HDTV, but if you're not in an area where that works, limited basic cable is the next best thing. It's usually less than $20/month, and it's not advertised. You have to specifically ask for it. It's all the local channels, plus a couple other channels and some shopping channels. I think other areas probably have something similar, so even if you're not in Comcast's service area, ask.
Think really hard about how you're allocating your savings in categories like your childrens' college fund and your 401(K) particularly if you're contributing more than the 6% that is matched. It might be wise, depending on your circumstances, to accept the tax bite in exchange for keeping those funds more accessible to you in the short term.
If you have to have your Starbucks, make it Tullys, and always use a gift card. When you load a gift card with at least $30, they'll give you a 10% bonus. Combine that with a 50 cent per cup prime card beverage discount. For example, a $3 beverage will cost you about $2.20.
Rediscover your inner grad student, minus the pub crawls, and you'll come up with more ideas that work for you.
If you drink a lot of coffee, you can get a $20 coffee grinder and a thermos or thermal carafe (at home) and skip Starbucks. .
.
You wrote a good post that I'm sure will be helpful to some people. But it makes me think, some people around here have led really sheltered lives if they don't realize they can make their own coffee. I've met people like that--who are trying to save money, but if you suggest they stop paying $4.50 for a mocha frappuccino every morning, it's like you're telling them to stop brushing their teeth. It will be interesting to see how some of the entitled set will adjust. Just a couple years ago everybody was complaining on this board that their 6-figure salaries weren't enough to afford basic shelter (i.e., a $500,000 house right near work) and now they're going to be learning how to change their own motor oil. Exciting times!
I think that Windows, the source of MSFT's mighty revenues, is at the same time the cancer that will bring it down in the end. Hopefully I will have moved on to a better company by then, and once again working on technologies and products that I actually have a passion for.
Get the hell outta here first. Good riddance to you.
In response to ... I did some prelim analysis and we have cash cushion for almost a year. But should I start cutting anyway?
Blue badge, US citizens over 40 are at risk of layoff.
#1 Priority - Immediately
Explore refinancing your home - now. You will be ineligible for refinancing if you are unemployed.
When company starts selling ability to set a background image as a distinctive feature, you know innovation has really and truly ended there.
And now guess what Microsoft is doing to the W7 "netbook edition"... http://www.withinwindows.com/2009/06/17/oems-partners-cant-brand-windows-7-starter-either/
This, my friends, is pathetic. I've never been a fan of Microsoft, but have always had respect for their work on the OS front. Not anymore - with this, as well as its initial intention to limit number of running applications, it's clear that Microsoft doesn't care about its customers and is just desperately looking for ways to milk money from us having no real value to offer.
"Is the 60-days pay the same as the "paid administrative leave"?"
Yes.
Mine was 60 days admin leave + 1 week per 6 months + unused vacation time + COBRA + taxes for COBRA + 80% bonus.
I thought I was paranoid, but after looking at the comments, I'm relieved I'm not.
A lady roams around the hallway in building 121 as well, busy marking something in a building map. She does that at 1:45 PM everyday, for the past month or so. This act defies explanation. A few other people in my team noticed this as well, but don't have a clue as to what she is doing.
It is great that XD is not leaving Microsoft!
One failed project to the next.
June 30th is happening, GM in my Org of 750+ was asked to initiate cuts
This is where Microsoft jobs are going
http://www.rttnews.com/ArticleView.aspx?Id=982552&SMap=1
June 30th is happening, GM in my Org of 750+ was asked to initiate cuts
Hmmm - roughly about a week left to the 3rd D-day. I really hope Microsoft does the right thing this time. Cut once and for all, cut deep if needed, but after cut - come out with statement that we're done with it - so that internal fear mongering stops.
SLT has been moronic, as to continue this saga forever. Actually I would not mind a 4th round of cut - which will trim the entire SLT.
"June 30th is happening, GM in my Org of 750+ was asked to initiate cuts"
Is your org in WEX/COSD?
"Because that's the goal. To get as many people sick as they can, with the hopes the weak will leave on their own and save on severance packages. It's survival of the fittest at this point."
Wow. The statement is sad, but seems to have some truth in it. All the more when they were ready to spend $1.5 billion in 'yahoo employee retention bonuses' not too long ago, and regularly get slapped hundreds of millions of dollars in fine by EU, but still do not do anything about it. And some geniuses are trying to save on severance package, which might be some million dollars - for thousands that get fired.
I dont have words for it. It's just sad.
Ballmer can do whatever he wants, but he's really not thinking that good times can come too. That would be payback time and folks here would leave Microso(Wal)Soft in droves.
>>A lady roams around the hallway in building 121 as well, busy marking something in a building map. She does that at 1:45 PM everyday, for the past month or so. This act defies explanation.
How is it that none of you have had the gumption to ask such persons what they are up to? Why so scared??
couple of things
1) To the fellow who was asked to write feedback to his shitty manager : I'd say you should give a fair and honest opinion of your former shitty boss. Because that is the right thing to do. You don't need to go blast him, if you do, it will make you lose credibility.
2) Make it Anonymous :) Which, I am sure you have decided already. Also, I thought your feedback on your former manager only goes to his boss? In any case, make it fair and honest. I was in a similar situation before. And I have moved on and am doing quite well. At least I would like to think so.
3)So, I suppose we are really going to see another round off lay off in June 30. This is really sad. So many families will get affected once again. All the best.
what fc..k going on? getting ready for announcing another 10%? MS IT India teams are shivering of possible lay-offs after the year end curve fitting, protecting favorites of non-performers and eliminating foes and outspoken fellows, women are safe because there is lack of diversity so more men to lose jobs, people managgers are safe because they are the culprits, senior managers are safe because they have control. How come no G.M lost jobs yet? where is HR? are they sleeping or drunk? I am safe because I just got promoted but my co-workers aren't feeling secured. no jobs in india so they are worried....
these layoffs based on performance or preferance????????????????????? SMSG teams are not feeling good about sales figures in India this means more layoffs ahead...smarter leaders are jumping ship out of MS IT India and moving to other teams...what happened to Billg commitment for India? A.P state government gave free land to Microsoft, does government can do something about these untimely layoffs?
no one working at the office, they are just talking about who is next, when, how many more layoffs
These days I get lots of advertisement in facebook about job openings in Microsoft. I wonder why Microsoft needs such vigorous advertisements outside when there are lots of experienced laid off employees are looking for oppurtunities internally.
I was managed out some months back for performance reason, though my co-workers and friends in Microsoft had a strong disagreemnt with this "under performance". Anyway after months some of my teammates informed me that my managers are taking interviews with numerous candidates for that position but still they could not find any qualified one. I believe these shitty managers ( sorry I had lost all of my respect towards them during my last months because of all the hypocritical and shameless behaviour from them) get lots of entertainment by interviewing candidates. When they needs such entertainment they just fire any employee within their organization with or without any reason. But I doubt whether they have any self reproach when they mercilessly throw out some people for their entertainment.
After my Microsoft days I am happy with exploring other oppurtunities. But it is very hard to forget the agonising experience with Microsoft especially when I lose my sleep at late night because of a nightmare related to Microsoft days. I am very anguished when I feel about the injustice that was done to me.
I thought I was paranoid, but after looking at the comments, I'm relieved I'm not.
A lady roams around the hallway in building 121 as well, busy marking something in a building map. She does that at 1:45 PM everyday, for the past month or so. This act defies explanation. A few other people in my team noticed this as well, but don't have a clue as to what she is doing.
This is ridiculous. Let's assume the worst case scenario here and say that for some odd reason, there are "people" checking offices and marking down who's there or not. And somehow, this will be used in some adverse way against the "marked down" people.
I don't have to point out how utterly dumb this would be. Just as an example, during the last 2 weeks, I was not in my office from 2-6pm for 4 days. 2 of those days, we were in deep dive meetings, 1 day we had a team meeting, followed by 2 project meetings, and the last was the day we were deploying stuff to UAT, so a conference room was reserved for all team members to sit down and make sure everything went well.
The other 6 days, I was indeed in my office. So, is someone going to mark me down for not being in my office 40% of the time? Does anyone realize how insane that is?
600 jobs are going here:
Indian CEO Says Most US Tech Grads "Unemployable"
"When questioned about his firm's US hiring, Information Week reports that Vineet Nayar, the CEO of the Indian outsourcing giant HCL Technologies, showed he can stereotype with the best of them, telling an audience in NYC that most American tech grads are 'unemployable'.
Report: Microsoft signs up Indian outsourcing firm for 600 workers
It's hardly unprecedented for Microsoft, or any other tech company, to hire overseas outsourcing firms for contract work. But given the economic climate, and the company's recent layoffs, there will probably be extra scrutiny on today's Economic Times report that outsourcer HCL Technologies of India has reached a five-year, $170 million deal with Microsoft involving as many as 600 workers.
"For the love of Christ, get a grip on yourself. This I'm living in a state of constant terror is getting to be ridiculous."
Well MS slt induced it. Otherwise why would they want to spread layoffs over such a long time horizon, leak dates and times to GMs who in turn will leak here on this blog. So if june 30th is the next round, how is anyone in the groups that will be impacted not be nervous? It's just natural.
I don't have to point out how utterly dumb this would be. Just as an example, during the last 2 weeks, I was not in my office from 2-6pm for 4 days. 2 of those days, we were in deep dive meetings, 1 day we had a team meeting, followed by 2 project meetings, and the last was the day we were deploying stuff to UAT, so a conference room was reserved for all team members to sit down and make sure everything went well.
Given the fact that you are not at your desk and you want deep dive sessions, then thats what they are seeing, how long do you work independently on your work rather than deep dives. I mean the general point is that wasting and office space for someone who doesnt use it .. it could be better to see how often you have meeting and with whom, it would make sense to keep you all in the same room, maybe bigger, it will allow you to interact more and be more productive. Not being in the office is certainly not going to be a reason to fire .. this isnt a school.
How about those of us who might like to leave? any suggestions on the politically correct way to raise your hand for the layoff?
Do you know what the following means? at least you know what happened the last 2 times
REDMOND, Wash., June 22/PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Microsoft Corp. will release fiscal year 2009 fourth-quarter financial results after the close of the market on Thursday, July 23, 2009. A live webcast of the earnings conference call will be made available at 2:30 p.m. Pacific Time.
June 30th is happening, GM in my Org of 750+ was asked to initiate cuts
which org are you in ?
June 30th is happening, GM in my Org of 750+ was asked to initiate cuts
which org are you in ?
OSD
"How about those of us who might like to leave? any suggestions on the politically correct way to raise your hand for the layoff?"
Start slacking at work. esp. do not communicate too much or try to increase ur "visibility". If they havent finalized the list yet, that will ensure your name makes it to the list.
How about those of us who might like to leave? any suggestions on the politically correct way to raise your hand for the layoff?
.
.
I wonder if inviting over that B121 meter-maid and playing a little hide-and-seek with her will do the trick.
We had definite confirmation from our PUM that there will be a "reorg" in Windows after Win7, but didn't mention anything about job cuts.
However, my group is not under COSD/WEX, so I don't know whether or not he deliberately left any info out, or just wasn't told anything about it.
June 30th is going to be another BLACK day, MS IT India may cut another 10%....even people managers and senior manager won't be spared this time. G.Ms started jumping ship.
Looks like MSIT will be spared during the June 30 round. Not surprising, considering how hard we got hit last time.
We just got the invite for the MSIT all-hands on June 30, from 8:30-12pm, with KT as the guest speaker. So, unless they're planning on laying people off during the all-hands or afterwards (extremely unlikely), we're off the hook.
Best of luck to everyone else who may be impacted next Tuesday.
Look at the WARN filing:
http://www.esd.wa.gov/newsandinformation/warn/index.php
1200 people starting July 4th
Hmm, oops, I think I might be looking at the earlier layoff data. Sorry!
No Layoff in SMSG India. There will not be any layoffs in Indian SMSG. There have been lot of secret firings in addition to layoffs which would be good for next 2 Quarters.
However there will be changes in the org structure (read people re-orgs).
All legacy Managers - who are on hibernation @ the cost of MS (like the Rockstar - RRB Man - ND and DevTools Lady) will be re-deployed. They are the ones who have not got a penny in for past 4 years but prospered.
The short-man HD will be phased out.
Also looks like RS is moving back to HP.
The Partner Team will be re-orged
Do groups ever fire people for poor performance in the week immediately before those same teams will be participating in a lay-off? Or do they prefer to wait until after a lay-off to terminate them (and avoid paying severance)?
RE: the hall monitor/headphones guyin B17
I've heard a bunch of people are moving around in a few buildings, possibly Buildings 16, 17, and 18. Maybe that's what's going down?
The guy walking the hall really is from MSSpaces. There's going to be a gigantic office move for 16/17/18. High marks for being vigilant, but the dopey looking head-phone/notepad guy is not out to get you.
A lady roams around the hallway in building 121 as well, busy marking something in a building map. She does that at 1:45 PM everyday, for the past month or so. This act defies explanation. A few other people in my team noticed this as well, but don't have a clue as to what she is doing.
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My goodness people are freaking out! The receptionist in my building has been doing this for months. So I asked her about it. They are checking usage of conference rooms. Relax people. Not everything is a conspiracy!!!
Some people in 121 have been told that they are moving. We have been doubling up in offices but due to the decrease in population in the building we can spread out again.
No date for the move, but boxes have started to arrive in some offices.
"My goodness people are freaking out! The receptionist in my building has been doing this for months. So I asked her about it. They are checking usage of conference rooms. Relax people. Not everything is a conspiracy!!!"
One of the biggest IT companies on the planet can't figure out how to check their scheduling platform's database? Riiight.
The receptionist in my building has been doing this for months. So I asked her about it. They are checking usage of conference rooms.
That's too bad. I was hoping it was a test to see how long a random stranger could wander the halls doing unusual/arguably-suspicious things before someone gave enough of a damn to actually ask them what the hell they were doing there.
Does Microsoft do any workplace security training, or do you all just assume that the fact that someone made it into the building means everything is hunky-dory? (Note: the analogy to security in Windows -- which I only realized after writing the previous sentence, honest! -- is left up to the reader.)
And this is why you fail: http://gizmodo.com/5301397/what-the-f-is-going-on-in-this-windows-mobile-developer-video
What a waste of time and money, while Apple is eating your lunch and kicking your ass, you do this. What a joke.
Does anyone know where to look to find a break-down of cobra costs, and possible alternatives? I have read the great comments about how cobra is not such a good deal, and am wondering where to go to get understand what the costs of both cobra and the alternatives are.
Actually, if you go to http://www.esd.wa.gov/newsandinformation/warn/ and search for Microsoft, there are 2 layoffs planned in Seattle, and 1200 planned for Redmond, for June 30 and July 4 (some independence day), respectively.
For those wondering about jawadk, I see that he just sent his farewell notice to the entire Windows division today. His last day is June 30.
To 8:44:00 PM:
That was the same mistake I made. Those were the layoffs that occurred on 5/5. The filing date is the more important number.
@8:44 PM -- the layoffs on the WARN site already happened. The "July 4" layoff is just the official layoff start date for folks who got the ax on 5/5/09 -- that's the 60 days required by WARN ... so there is nothing to be gained by searching the site, MSFT won't pre-announce the layoffs there.
there are 2 layoffs planned in Seattle, and 1200 planned for Redmond, for June 30 and July 4 (some independence day), respectively.
I think you are mis-reading this data. Notice how the lay-off notice for July 4th was "received" on May 5th. July 4th is simply the official beginning of the May lay-off after the 60 day WARN period has expired.
If there were to be any lay-off notices filed for June 30th, we should see the closure date in September
Actually, if you go to http://www.esd.wa.gov/newsandinformation/warn/ and search for Microsoft, there are 2 layoffs planned in Seattle, and 1200 planned for Redmond, for June 30 and July 4 (some independence day), respectively.
These refer to the people who were informed in early May, to whom Microsoft stops paying salary in early July. These are not new layoffs. They'll file new notices for new layoffs.
Actually, if you go to http://www.esd.wa.gov/newsandinformation/warn/ and search for Microsoft, there are 2 layoffs planned in Seattle, and 1200 planned for Redmond, for June 30 and July 4 (some independence day), respectively.
This is effective day for May layoffs, after 60 days of WARN period.
June 30th is happening, GM in my Org of 750+ was asked to initiate cuts
which org are you in ?
OSD
Did you mean COSD or just OSD ? I did not hear OSD group before.
"Anonymous said...
Actually, if you go to http://www.esd.wa.gov/newsandinformation/warn/ and search for Microsoft, there are 2 layoffs planned in Seattle, and 1200 planned for Redmond, for June 30 and July 4 (some independence day), respectively."
No, those are the ones that received notice in May, and their 60 days will be July 4th.
URL to WARN .gov site...
Those are previously-announced layoffs. Note the 5/5/2009 date and the 1/23/2009 date. The 7/4 layoff date is the date that the 60 day WARN requirements expire for the 5/5/2009 layoffs. So approximately 2k people have been affected in the US so far.
Actually, if you go to http://www.esd.wa.gov/newsandinformation/warn/ and search for Microsoft, there are 2 layoffs planned in Seattle, and 1200 planned for Redmond, for June 30 and July 4 (some independence day), respectively.
No, that's the previously announced layoff. 60 days from 5/5,,,
* Actually, if you go to http://www.esd.wa.gov/newsandinformation/warn/ and search for Microsoft, there are 2 layoffs planned in Seattle, and 1200 planned for Redmond, for June 30 and July 4 (some independence day), respectively.
Sigh. Actually, what that page says is that _2_ people will be officially laid off as of june 30 (60 days after 5/1) and 1200 will be 60 days after May 5th.
Did you scroll all the way to the right ?
Look, if it was as easy as looking at the ESD site, we wouldn't have been looking here at mini's blog since last year for hints about when each round would be.
There's every reason to believe it may happen again, but no reason to panic, if you're a proven performer and in a group that is making money, considered strategic, or otherwise protected. If you're worried that your boss's boss doesn't know that you do good work, or you work on a product which is losing money or market share, you probably should be worried.
Don't sweat the feedback requests (they happen every year), the hall monitors(do they have orange badges ? are they RE&F ?), or your status as over 40 (seriously ?)
I'm an over 40 white male, in a group which loses money reliably, but I have a history of getting work done, with visibility up to my CVP - not because I'm sucking up, but because that's how big pieces of work happen.
My management chain likes me because I'm reliable, not because we have interests, ethnicity, sexual orientation or gender in common.
Maybe I'm just lucky that my management chain is @MSFT to do business rather than discriminatory work avoidance, but I doubt we're that special. (although there are such groups; I used to work in one)
* If you're working for a management chain which is motivated by something other than quantifiable results (dollars, usually in business), you're better off in another job. (@MSFT or not)
* If you're feeling guilty that you don't do much work, or work very hard for your handsome salary, you're better off in another job. (@MSFT or not)
* If you don't trust your manager to go to bat to you, GET ANOTHER MANAGER (@MSFT or not)
I'm reading a lot of comments here by folks who seem to want to find explanations for their experience in malfeasance, incompetent management or random chance. None of this is rational. In general, you experience the luck you make for yourself.
There are absolutely folks who got cut who had no reason to expect it, but the vast majority who I have direct, personal knowledge of their work and level, either should have found a new job *years* ago, or were hired to another position well before the 60 days ran out.
Left as an exercise for the paranoid reader is to find the analogous reporting website for each state, and country where we do business and then subtract to figure out how many are left in the predicted "5000 over 18 months."
"Actually, if you go to http://www.esd.wa.gov/newsandinformation/warn/ and search for Microsoft, there are 2 layoffs planned in Seattle, and 1200 planned for Redmond, for June 30 and July 4 (some independence day), respectively."
No, those are the layoffs that have already happened. WARN just requires two months warning, so May 5 -> July 4. Technically no warning and two months of severance is equivalent to "2 months warning".
Does anyone know where to look to find a break-down of cobra costs, and possible alternatives? I have read the great comments about how cobra is not such a good deal, and am wondering where to go to get understand what the costs of both cobra and the alternatives are.
1) If your spouse is working, get insurance from here employer. Probably wont be as good as premera, but would be good and cheap enuff
2) If you are a student or are planning to go back to school soon, get insurance from school. They generally would have negotiated some deals with big insurance companies and the coverage is decent.
Typically the non-microsoft plans cover 80-90% of expenses and there will be small co-pays too.
There might be more choices, but i am not sure. That is why I said before, if you are afraid that your name might be on chopping block, get all the medical stuff done to yourself before the D-day. The idea is to get "healthy" before 30th june, s.t. you dont need doc visits in forseeable future. If you are a family having children, per month expenditure for cobra is $1400. Even if you get Obama's 65% assistance for cobra payment, you will still end up paying $500 per month out of unemployment check - a big number when you are not earning anything.
"My goodness people are freaking out! The receptionist in my building has been doing this for months. So I asked her about it. They are checking usage of conference rooms. Relax people. Not everything is a conspiracy!!!"
One of the biggest IT companies on the planet can't figure out how to check their scheduling platform's database? Riiight.
**************
Well in full disclosure, I'm located in ND - In Horizon to be exact and actually the scheduling platform doesn't appear to be working properly so yeah actually right.
Actually, if you go to http://www.esd.wa.gov/newsandinformation/warn/ and search for Microsoft, there are 2 layoffs planned in Seattle, and 1200 planned for Redmond, for June 30 and July 4 (some independence day), respectively.
Actually, if you had bothered to spend five seconds checking the meaning of those dates before posting this, you might have noticed that they show when the 60 days' employment period mandated by the WARN act expires for the group of people in question -- not when it's scheduled to begin.
I.e., these are the filings that MS made for the last round of layoffs in April.
I have no idea whether something new might be in the works for June 30, but that's still just as true after following this link. There's no new information here whatsoever.
Honestly, if Microsoft were providing official confirmation of its future layoff plans on a well-known, publicly-accessible government website, do you really think you'd have the exclusive on that story a month and a half after the information was posted?
To sum up: You're unable to process information effectively, and you don't understand how the Internet works. [Insert hackneyed you-must-be-a-Microsoft-employee joke of your choice here.]
One of the biggest IT companies on the planet can't figure out how to check their scheduling platform's database? Riiight.
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That's rarely the problem in big orgs. The problem tends to be actual utilization of the room. Over time, people lay claim to recurring meetings in rooms but they may get in the habit of skipping them based on business needs. Perfectly natural; but when it comes to skipping every other meeting or failing to cancel VP-level reviews that are scheduled months in advance, this is a lot of wasted resource.
It would be perfectly reasonable to allocate a secretary to spot-check whether people use the rooms they have booked, and follow up with repeat offenders.
This has been interesting read. Outsider shareholders don't get to hear insider scoop that often.
Since this is all about layoffs - I remember of my sister talking about many ineffective partner pums in developer division. The developer community has not seen anything magnetic for long time. So, who is justifying their existance? Should they not be fired before sacrificing the real workers?
Does anyone know where to look to find a break-down of cobra costs, and possible alternatives? .
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Do some comparison shopping on the internet. Not to pick on you personally because there are many other people with this mindset, but come on, why would you think buying health insurance is different from buying anything else? When I left Microsoft, I typed "health insurance quote washington" and 20 minutes later I was covered. Since I have no chronic health problems and rarely visit the doctor, I got $60/mo. coverage, whereas the cheapest COBRA plan in the information Microsoft sent me was (IIRC) over $400/mo.
I hope some people have learned a lesson from the schmuck who posted the inflammatory "I just saw on the official government site that more layoffs are coming!" nonsense -- not only should you think long and hard before you scare people to death, but you might want to not share your rumors *at all*, as it serves no purpose other than to freak people out.
I'm not sure why Mini has allowed this site to turn into the central location for Microsoft layoff rumors -- the post-layoff emotional support has been very helpful, the ongoing "you're about to get whacked" mongering has been destructive and demoralizing.
There's only one message people need to have: Microsoft has set precedent for layoffs and the world has changed -- it's now part of our daily lives and we should all be as prepared as possible.
Welcome to 2009, time to move-on and stop gnashing teeth over what might happen.
Regarding the meeting room management comment, check the new Bravern building: The meeting rooms have motion sensors, and the room is programmed to cancel the meeting if it doesnt detect motion after a five minutes tolerance period.
I'm not sure why Mini has allowed this site to turn into the central location for Microsoft layoff rumors --
Rumors ?? They have not been rumors, but announcements and you should be thankful this blog has served that purpose. Both layoffs (January and May) were pre-announced in Mini's blog with the precise dates with several weeks in advance. What more can you ask ? It's clear that management knows that Mini's blog is the place to announce, in a perfectly anonymous way, all the layoffs and give everyone enough time to do some planning. So the "leaks" clearly look like a very well planned communication strategy.
"I'm not sure why Mini has allowed this site to turn into the central location for Microsoft layoff rumors -- the post-layoff emotional support has been very helpful, the ongoing "you're about to get whacked" mongering has been destructive and demoralizing."
Newsflash for you - the morale is already down.
Who are you - a manager?? If ongoing rumor-mongering is destructive, why doesnt ballmer and his board come up with statement that they wont cut anymore, after the 3rd round of cuts? Why dont they follow the age old principle of cut once and cut deep?
The date listed i.e. 6/30/09, 3/23/09is the employee's last date of employment at MS
I was laid off in Jan, had the 60 day severance. March 23rd was my last day and first day to go on UE
Same with people laid off in May, last day at MS first date of UE 6/30/09
Khakhy is leaving.
http://www.techflash.com/microsoft/Veteran_Windows_exec_leaving_Microsoft_after_long_transition_49108121.html
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