Microsoft Annual Review 2009
Just a quick post: some of you enjoy posting information relevant to your review, both looking at numbers and a critical view of the message given to you. It has started to happen a bit in the last post so I'm just going to capitulate and put this small post up for the 2009 Annual Review share and compare.
Oh, and obviously grab yourself a few grains of salt. Folks seem to like this format:
- L# (promo'd?)
- (Exceeded|Achieved|Underperformed) / (20|70|10)
- Bonus $K
- Stock $K
- (Promo $K)
- Optional comments about Division / Group, discipline, impression of review
The promotion budget is significantly less this year meaning that if you got promoted you're really at the top of the heap. If you didn't, well, you're going into a long line.
And as we know: no merit raises this year (though you will get a raise if you're promoted). But bonus and stock awards are the same, ensuring we have the flexibility to reward our top performers.
I would expect that the Underperformed Microsofties have already been managed out. If you are an Achieved/10% then I'd expect you're given a very short term idea of what success looks like and can expect to be closely managed. Great time to update that resume and see what else is going on.
I found a bunch of old reviews of mine recently. Flipping through the review forms started with refreshing simplicity from over a decade ago, rapidly turning into confusing churn (company value ratings and all that crap), to now a fragmented collection of task-driven thoughts. While it's nice that the review form has pretty much stuck to the current form now and we don't have new components coming and going (yeah schema?) it really doesn't compare to the first couple of reviews I did at Microsoft.
Of course, I had great managers who knew how to give concise feedback, both daily and as part of my review. Where you don't have demonstrated collective excellence, you have process.
438 comments:
1 – 200 of 438 Newer› Newest»I would like to be able to see how I am doing against all other people in my discipline and level.
Manager says i have reached my level in less number of years against average 5-6 years.. Guess he is saying do not expect a level rise.
I doubt his interpretation but would like to see it myself...
Let me be the first to say that the numbers posted by that last guy were complete bullshit.
L60 (got a promo at mid-year)
A/70
Bonus $8100
Stock 130% (equal to about as much as my bonus)
I feel that my lead really looks out for me and my teammates. I feel lucky to have such a supportive boss because that's certainly not always been the case in the past (in which case I changed teams, PRONTO!).
Had my review completed just this past Friday.
L62 PM
Achieved/70
$7K Bonus
80% stock ($14,400)
Promo: None
Group: MSIT
Merit: None (obviously)
Salary: $101,875
All in all, about what I expected. I joined this team after a re-org in the middle of February. So, glad to have avoided the customary "new guy gets the 10%" rule.
My manager made it pretty clear that I was evaluated only during the 5 months I was with the new team, so I really can't complain. I guess I did enough work to carve myself a place right in the middle of that 70% band, another thing my manager openly pointed out. Good not to be in the 10%, and away from the 10% within the 70% band.
So, the clock really begins ticking for me this month. I've been at my current level for 2 years, and my real evaluation will clearly be for the next 8-10 months. A promotion and a better review should be in the works if I can deliver.
There was absolutely no other message given that I'm in any sort of trouble. But it's clear I have to really step up and be noticed if I want that promotion to 63 next year. And if I don't, I'll most likely end up with a low 70 or worse, 10% next year. By all measures, it seems my destiny is in my own hands, and you can't ask for more than that.
Considering that I've survived the Jan/May lay-offs and still have a decent job, I'm happy to have gotten the review out of the way. Not my best by any means, but when you put things in perspective, no complaints, either.
Best of luck to all with your reviews.
Does getting an Achieved (70%) means I'm in danger of being bumped off? Pardon my ignorance, but this is my first review (haven't completed a full year yet) and I haven't completely grasped how things work here in MS.
"Where you don't have demonstrated collective excellence, you have process."
Uh what? There's some outstanding lingo Mini, I think this may the point where you jumped the shark!
L60, Achieve/70, Bonus $5K, Stock $5K, SDET.
Review was mostly fair. The manager was sensible enough to write the review based on facts only, and then some of the verbal feedback I could dispute during the chat. But none of that would change the review scores, and I felt that my manager genuinely cared for my career.
dont agree on the 10% number, at least for people in the field.
A lot of mates are atthis level to keep the bonus as low as possible. I have heard of teasm that all got an underperformed, but the teams msut be there.
For me it is a shame how the company is behaving. They shoudl start wiping some of the tope Execs who killed the company strategy and effectifness during the last years, but as usuall these thigns dont happen :(
With more than 30 accountabilities in FY10, process has trumped collective excellence.
What happened to "Do a few things and do them well"? It sounds like my LT, for lack of meaningful goals, will measure their excellence against my several dozen random and arbitrary KPI's.
L63
Exceeded/70
Bonus $18300
Stock $54000
(Promo $0)
A good review in the sense that it'll make me stick around for another year in this economy, but I feel that I contributed more. Expected promo but didn't get it.
I'm an L67 who needs to write 8 reviews shortly. ;)
I am promoing 3 of them.
My team just shipped a wildly successful product.
The annual review is the biggest tool you have in motivating your employees. A bit hard when you do not have merit increases, but it still works with bonuses. Most other companies in our industry also do not have merit increases this year. Many of them have forced time off as well.
I have not received my review yet.
L 61 -(L62 equiv in US I believe)
Exceeded
70% (top tier in 70%)
Bonus £7600k ($12,375) (13.5% of BES)
Stock $9,800 (100% of target)
based in the UK
Considering that I've survived the Jan/May lay-offs and still have a decent job, I'm happy to have gotten the review out of the way.
Must be awful to live and work thinking about layoffs AND the damn reviews all the time. I'm so happy I left MS. I truly enjoy life more than ever. what a place that was ...and still is !! some things never change.
Does getting an Achieved (70%) means I'm in danger of being bumped off? Pardon my ignorance, but this is my first review (haven't completed a full year yet) and I haven't completely grasped how things work here in MS.
You're fine, don't be scared. Can't believe people are working under that kind of environment. Since you're new to MS, the best thing you could do is read the following book: http://tinyurl.com/24n675
L62 in Svcs V1 plan
E/70
B: 18K@20%
S: 17K@95% target
P: Nope
C/R: 1.01
Pretty funny (not really), in '08 my manager set me up with a C/R right at 1.0 after promo so she could hook me up with merit this time. Obviously she didn't know about layoffs back then...
I'm shocked that MSFT is handing out bonuses right now...I thought bonuses were on hold?
Has anybody tried to negotiate with the purpose of increasing the bonus and stock award granted to them in a review?
Would like to hear from folks who have tried this. Did it succeed? Is it possible to make some changes during the review meeting? Is it allowed by HR policies? Do managers leave some room or expect you to negotiate?
Got promoted to 63 and recieved a substantial bonus (much higher than expected). My review was spot on in my opininon and it was the quickest and easiest I've ever had in my time at MSFT. I'm aware that this is a stellar result to get during a time of recession and constrained budgets so a little celebration was in order...
L59, Achieve/70, Bonus 6.5%(approx.), Stock 75%, SDET Office group. (Abt 9 months in the review cycle)
My manager says I did a 'Good job', but do the figures reflect it?
This is my first review, I did like to know from the long timers how what should I make out from the figures?
I was told during hiring that 9-10% is avg. bonus payout.
L60 (got a promo at mid-year and a gold star award after that)
Exceeded/70
Bonus $11000
Stock 150%
L62 -> L63 (P)
Exceeded/20
Amazing numbers all around that won't be shared.
@"Does getting an Achieved (70%) means I'm in danger of being bumped off?", of course not!
That would mean 70% of folks were in "danger" of being "bumped off".
Though if you're really in the 10% of that 70%, then you'll be the new 10% - right :-) - if teams ever actually assigned those numbers these days.
MCS - so I get 2 sets of bonus, UBI (based on billable hours) and CBI (based on my commitments).
L65 (promo at end of Q3 from 64)
Exceeded/70%
UBI bonus $24,929 (total/year)
CBI bonus $22,998
Stock $37,050 (95% of target)
Promo 8% raise in April
Hi mini msft readers,
a newbie here with 10 months of experience going through my first review.
Any recommendations during the review, for example, if one believes is an Exceeded but the manager believes that is just achieved, would that be wrong?
i guess i could fight to show that i have exceeded my own commitments , but is that a good idea or just stupid ?
How is this review thing related to my peers? i have heard that if there are other guys needing a promotion, then one would have to wait until other time... i assume that i could get it in MYCD.
If so, Is it wrong for a L59 not getting a promotion during the first review?
L60 SDET
A/70
Bonus $6,383
Stock 120% ($7,200)
Promo: none
...
"Where you don't have demonstrated collective excellence, you have process."
That pretty much describes all companies, doesn't it? It's not unique to the MSFT review process, and not even unique to MSFT.
"But bonus and stock awards are the same, ensuring we have the flexibility to reward our top performers."
Mini this statement is fundamentally wrong. Stock might be the same since pretty much means nothing, but Bonus is definitely not the same. The Bonus budget has been dramatically cut with the result of many orgs across the company (like mine) re-introducing the curve for performance assessment, even if Lisa Brummel stood proudly not long ago to tell everyone that the curve for performance was gone.
Looking at your posts lately I think it’s pretty obvious that have been drinking some MS cool aid later. I am sure there is a good reason for that. Maybe you can open up on the reasons and get your audience to feel the same way. I’d love to…
L62 -> 63
E/20
Bonus: 27% of BES
Stock: 242%
Promo: 7%
L64
E/20%
Bonus $60k
Stock $80k
No promotion
L62 PM (in level 1 year)
Exceeded/20%
$20k Bonus
250% Stock ($45,000)
Review was really good this year (not just because I got a lot of cash). My manager gave good feedback about what I need to do to get to the next level and how my compensation was decided.
L63
Exceeded/70%
Bonus: 11%
Stock: $17,500 (83.3% of target)
I'm a little miffed about the 83.3%of target on the stock since I was 130% of target in the same role last year.
L63 (no promo)
Achieved / 70%
Bonus $12,000
Stock 95% ($19,950)
Salary $127,100
L62
Exceeded/20
Bonus: Why
Stock: Would
Salary: i care?
seriously.
"Any recommendations during the review, for example, if one believes is an Exceeded but the manager believes that is just achieved, would that be wrong?
If so, Is it wrong for a L59 not getting a promotion during the first review?"
First off, there's nothing wrong with thinking you did better (or worse) than your manager thinks. But I would say that is you are surprised by your review score, then there is a problem. You should have a very good idea from your 1:1, MYCD, etc... about how your manager views your work and your career progress. If you don't, I'd recommend chatting with your manager about that ASAP.
As for your second question, there is absolutely nothing wrong with being at Microsoft only 9 months and not getting promoted! I believe 18 months is "average" with 1 year being very impressive and 2 years not uncommon (especially in Office).
SDET
L60 (Promo @ Review time)
A/70
Bonus $7,800 (10.0 %)
Raise 3,500 (4.5%)
Stock $7,800 (130.00% of Target)
Group: Office
Got this job fresh out of college, feel pretty good about the promotion in 18 months. A raise and a bonus in this economy, I guess working for M$ does have its perks after all.
I work for an agency as a v-dash. We've been told that the year was so shitty around MS that there will be no bonuses. Feeling duped.
@"L62 -> 63
E/20
Bonus: 27% of BES
Stock: 242%
Promo: 7%", I call fud - are you an engineer? At your level you can't exceed a 20% bonus.
L63 Dev (P from 62)
Exceeded/20%
7% promo raise
20% Bonus
450% Stock
L62 PM in MBD
E/70
Bonus: 22K
Stock: 31.5K
Promo: No (1 year in level)
I'm shocked that MSFT is handing out bonuses right now...I thought bonuses were on hold?
---
since they cut 5k they have money to share. they dont want to lose people.
Also my #s
Ratin: FIRED
Bonus: Political
Incentive: Relief
michael, love ya baby.
L62 -> L63 (P)
Exceeded/20
Amazing numbers all around that won't be shared.
Hmmm. Exactly what I could have written after the last review cycle, and I was laid off in the January clusterfuck.
Good luck.
L62 SDE no promo
A/70%
Bonus: 9.5k (9.9%)
Stock: 22k (122% of target)
Base pay: 103k
L60 (got a promo at mid-year and a gold star award after that)
Exceeded/70
Bonus $11000
Stock 150%
You msut be kidding. I got 1 gold stard Q3, and an ITPRO and huge commentiments met and exceeded.
L61 PM
Achieved/10
$1000 Bonus
<1% stock 8 shares yes I said 8 shares
Promo: None
Group: MSIT
Merit: None (obviously)
Salary: $101,875
level 61. new employee joined msft this January. And it's my first review. Received the Gold Star Award several months ago.
Exceed/70%
B 12%
S 130%
Of course no promotion and no increase.
I'm not sure how the numbers are decided. Is it a mediocre review result?
Man, it's like Lake Wobegon here. All the kids are above average. Did anyone get skunked?
To the new 59 worried about not exceeding and not getting promoted: you likely didn't exceed. No one's wasting a promotion on a newbie. Hang tough and don't complain. You're too new to get a bozo bit flipped on you.
As for me, I'm a 9 year softie back as a v-, loving my high hourly rate, the cap on my hours at 40, and not having to sweat these reviews.
Good luck to all the honest, hard-working folks out there. Hope you're getting what you've earned.
L63 (no promo)
Achieved / 70%
Bonus $8,700
Stock 90% ($18,900)
Salary $122,500
Lower than last year on all counts but happy to have a job considering the past eight months...
L60/A/70%/NoPromo/8% Bonus
Question 1, How long it takes for L60 promote to L61?
Question 2, I got E/20%/NoP in last year's review, and my skip level manager took half the team away to another company, which offers me a 50% salary increase to go with him. I refused the offer, does it mean I made a mistake?
"Manager says i have reached my level in less number of years against average 5-6 years.. Guess he is saying do not expect a level rise."
You can determine this yourself by looking at your promotion velocity -- .5 and above is generally faster than normal, .4 is pretty average, .3 and below is behind the curve.
"Where you don't have demonstrated collective excellence, you have process."
Uh what? There's some outstanding lingo Mini, I think this may the point where you jumped the shark!
Uh, excuse me? Mini just said "when people don't know their shit, they compensate by creating process." That's not lingo, that's a truism -- although maybe the words were too big for you to understand?
A well-articulated thought does not constitute jargon.
What's the difference between contribution ranking of 10% and commitment ranking of under-performance?
Does 10% means let go or only under means let go? Or both mean let go?
Does any one know what was the average % bonus last year and whats the average % this year?
microsoft wide or org wide
Just few months back there was lay-off, and now I heard they are hiring again. What's wrong with you guys.
SAD, so sad, This company don't care for as human being:(
"L62 -> L63 (P)
Exceeded/20
Amazing numbers all around that won't be shared."
Then why did you post an anonymous promo announcement? You felt the need to tell the world that somebody at Microsoft was promoted from L62 to L63?
Not helpful or interesting. :P
"Has anybody tried to negotiate with the purpose of increasing the bonus and stock award granted to them in a review?
Would like to hear from folks who have tried this. Did it succeed? Is it possible to make some changes during the review meeting? Is it allowed by HR policies? Do managers leave some room or expect you to negotiate?"
No, we don't negotiate with employees when it comes to bonuses and stock *at all*. That's the quickest way to find yourself committing political suicide, actually.
Level 59 (promo 11/08) Operations Engineer
Exceeded/70
Bonus $8300/12%
Stock $4500/100%
I had a really kick-ass year. Kinda miffed about no raise when you get an awesome review.
Sharing a few thoughts -
Negotiating for a different review is not really possible. By the time you get your review discussion it is signed off by your management chain and HR. If you really feel you were not assessed fairly you can talk to your orgs HR generalist, but be advised that this will put your manager on the spot.
In general you should not stress about A/70% reviews. The exception is if the numbers are low. If you were A/70% and your numbers are 5% bonus or lower, 75% of stock target it means you're on the borderline on your commitments and contribution. If you are in those situations ensure you have a clear idea of what you need to improve on from your manager.
On budgets, promo, bonus, and stock budgets are not necessarily the same across all divisions. I believe there was an effort to keep these the same this year since there were no merit increases.
On comp ratio, this model is basically broken without merit budget this year. That will be a fun problem for managers next year, no doubt.
As a manager i don't see promotion velocity (promotions / years) as a meaningful stat. Level + length in level is more appropriate, since promotions are slower as you go up in level.
Services Delivery
Level: L63
CR/CR: A/70
Bonus: ~$12K, 11% of BES
Stock: $21k, 100% of L63 target
To everyone who's shocked, SHOCKED that there are bonuses being handed out: if you had actually paid attention months ago you would know that merit increases are being put on hold - NOT bonuses.
And this "no merit increases because of the bad economy" rule doesn't apply if you get a promotion (so your base pay CAN increase). Reading comprehension FTW!
All I want to know is, are there more layoffs coming in September. This is much more relevant information than a bunch of people congratulating themselves about their numbers.
Anyone in upper management, please provide some insight into this question. Would also love to know how layoff decisions are made at the individual employee level. There is virtually no information out there about these critical topics.
I was walked out before making this period of time, I was a dev 2 in OMPS working on windows update.
I was trending to A10 if not worse due to the personal conflicts with my manager who is not american. He decided to manage me out since he wanted to micro-manage me differently then the new hire 59 and other non-american colleagues who he had more in common.
my leadership chain did not support anything I did and looked ot scapegoat my leads all over the map ability and initiaves. He was a loose cannon for all intense and purposes.
Question 1, How long it takes for L60 promote to L61?
There's no documented rule as to how long it will take to promote you from level x to x+1. There are so many factors, including but not limited to performance, attitude, getting along with mgr and skip level mgr and team, politics, budget, team success, potential, etc.
Question 2, I got E/20%/NoP in last year's review, and my skip level manager took half the team away to another company, which offers me a 50% salary increase to go with him. I refused the offer, does it mean I made a mistake?
Yes, you made a big mistake.
"Has anybody tried to negotiate with the purpose of increasing the bonus and stock award granted to them in a review?
...
Is it possible to make some changes during the review meeting? Is it allowed by HR policies? Do managers leave some room or expect you to negotiate?"
NO. Don't even bring it up or you're dommed.
I work for an agency as a v-dash. We've been told that the year was so shitty around MS that there will be no bonuses. Feeling duped.
Agencies will always have an excuse to avoid any type of bonuses. Right now everyone can blame it on the "economy" so it's easy for them. My advise to you is look for another job with ANOTHER agency, then you can increase your rate and give yourself a 'bonus'. When you are a v- or a- you are responsible to give yourself the promotion you deserve. These sweatshop-like agencies will not treat you right despite all the kool-aid they told you when they first hired you.
L#62 to 63 (promotion) Achieved/20%
Bonus 9%
Stock 210%
Promo 5% salary increase
L61 A/10%
No promo
5% bonus
50% stock target
I had a really kick-ass year. Kinda miffed about no raise when you get an awesome review.
Keep telling yourself next year you'll get one!! Kick more ass next year!! yeah!
L62->L63 promo folks at mid year, can you share out the details of your group please?
Promo 61->62
Exceed/70
16K Bonus (17%)
23K Stock (130% of Target)
New Salary:103K (8% raise)
I am an SDET Lead (became a Lead last year) leading a team of 6 directs. I had a pretty good first year and think this review reflects that. My manager feedback was also very good. Guess I made the right choice switching from IC to Lead path.
L62 (mid-year promo, gold star)
20%/Achieved
12% bonus
175% stock
Hmm looking at these #'s I guess I got major low-balled with L63 <90k annual coming in from a subsidiary.
It's great to be a H1b slave...Hooray!! :)
Oo and with a pending GC, can't get promo's either, so basically I am a true Slave at your service MSFT...
Great..time to update resume...
L62 (1.5 yr in level)
Base 117K
A/20
Bonus 11K
Stock 25K
no promo
Field - outside of US. MCS, L63 (=L65 for corp comparison). Non-RBI role.
E/20
B: 35% of BES
S: 190% of target
Happy with this - similar to previous payouts on similar reviews.
Have calibrated and reviewed my org of 30+ people and the rewards are similar to the past few years.
Increasingly more weighted towards E & 20% people each year though as the curve gets applied tighter. This is a good thing IMO, though those who aspire to higher results but never get there also don't get to see the rewards for those that do; this is a pity. The results should be more transparent and published, e.g. as per financial and prof services companies so that everyone understands that if you deliver consistently well you get rewarded. I think a majority of comments on this blog are in the "I don't get the rewards therefore the whole company sucks category". Akin to "the world owes me a favour" mentality that is the real poison in an org.
As an aside, a colleague on RBI who blew his numbers out of the park in FY09 just landed a 220% bonus. and still got a 10% stock rating... the world of sales huh
Level 59 (promo 11/08) Operations Engineer
Exceeded/70
Bonus $8300/12%
Stock $4500/100%
I had a really kick-ass year. Kinda miffed about no raise when you get an awesome review.
So, what part of "there are no raises anywhere globally in FY09" did you not understand when you were kicking ass so hard?? 12% bonus and 100% stock isn't exactly an awesome review either. not for someone who is a customer of operations anyhow...
Just bought a cool Microsoft T-Shirt that is keeping my spirits alive after No Bonus/No level raise this year.(As per manager)
http://www.zazzle.com/ibingtherefore_i_am_tshirt-235274131157922391
This T-Shirt is becoming popular in Building 41.
Thanks to MS layoffs May 5th I had a great paid summer off with my son, and I am back to work making better money getting the respect I deserve! If you don't like your review...do something about it! The benefits are not worth it... I am telling you the grass is greener over here!! Good Luck!
L 61 SDET
A/70
$7k bonus
$11k stock
MDB
"Has anybody tried to negotiate with the purpose of increasing the bonus and stock award granted to them in a review?
Would like to hear from folks who have tried this. Did it succeed? Is it possible to make some changes during the review meeting? Is it allowed by HR policies? Do managers leave some room or expect you to negotiate?"
For fuck's sake - it's questions like this that explain the stock price. You're not negotiating a package when being offered the job! The review model is LOCKED by the time you hear it. So you can let out whoops of joy or burst into tears, there is nothing your manager can do about the ratings or reward. Period. You can appeal in theory however this is basically HR listening to your whining and then doing nothing.
L62 PM
A/70
8% Bonus
110% stock
Meh.
L67, 3 years in the level, E/20%. 70K bonus, 300K stock.
Well, I got my A/70 with some lousy numbers. So, I think I'm going to switch to "do-nothing" mode for the next year. I mean, what's the point?
Looks like I'm set for at least another year at the company. If there are lay-offs, it won't be performance based since I'm not an A/10. In that case, I'll still collect a handsome severance.
So, based on that, my committments for the next 12 months:
1. Collect my mycheck every 2 weeks
2. Pretend like I'm doing some work
3. Keep paying down the mortgage and other bills. By this time next year, mortgage should be paid about 30%.
4. Since I have no other debt, keep saving more money.
5. Contribute max to the 401k and collect the company match.
6. Visit the doctor, dentist, eye-doctor at least once.
7. Keep using the Pro Club.
Even if at some point I start tracking to an U/10 or A/10, all the above comittments will have been easily achieved by then, so who cares?
Life is good.
Hmm, was supposed to have my review today but my manager postponed it two more days because he said he needed to "proofread" it. :(
I hope it's not a bad sign, I haven't really received any negative feedback from my manager, but my responsibilities have been so vastly different from what I was told at the interview that it's difficult sometimes for me to get a good "feel" for how well I'm performing.
""Has anybody tried to negotiate with the purpose of increasing the bonus and stock award granted to them in a review?"
Jeebus. Get a life. The numbers were frozen a month ago. Be happy you have a job with awesome health benefits and the opportunity to work on some really exciting products. do you really want to be branded an ungrateful jerk over 1 or 2 per cent of bonus or stock? You're an FTE. Try thinking a *little* more long term.
L59 PM
Achieved/10
Bonus : waiting on the numbers
Stock : irrelevant
Leaving the company next month, in my notice period. Guess this probably contributed to the 10%, makes it easier to reward others that are staying...
I am newbie here, and I wanted to know if the promo budgets and bonus budgets vary by team i.e. does SQL get more budget than say search? How does bing/search stack up?
I would recommend to everyone posting here to also go check out www.glassdoor.com and post your feedbacck and salary information there as well.
For fuck's sake - it's questions like this that explain the stock price. You're not negotiating a package when being offered the job! The review model is LOCKED by the time you hear it.
I agree. Be thankful you some bonus and stock. Some people have lost their job and are struggling to make ends meet.
L64 SDE (no promo)
Exceeded/70%
$18K bonus (13%)
$31K stock (120% of target)
Pretty much what I expected, and similar to (slightly higher than) last year.
"You can determine this yourself by looking at your promotion velocity -- .5 and above is generally faster than normal, .4 is pretty average, .3 and below is behind the curve."
Newbie here.
But how is this velocity calculated?
L60 PM - (1.5 yrs in level)
A/70
8% Bonus
90% of target stock award
Promo: no
Group: Windows
Salary: low 80's
Do any IC's know about the sub buckets? Just wondering how widespread this info is. Also how many of you have been provided a redacted copy of the peer stack rank sheet with the 9 bucket histogram identifying exactly where you are in the stack? Maybe its just a new Windows org thing this year.
Anyway here is a summary of the the sub buckets:
20%
#1 2% Gold star!!!!!!
#2 8% Just missed the gold star!
#3 10% Nice work!
70%
#4 15% E/70 Just missed 20%
#5 30% A/70 You are truly average
#6 25% A/70 Some are more average than others
10%
#7 5% = A/10 u got 6 months
#8 3% = U/10 u got 6 weeks
#9 2% = U/10 gone
since promotions are slower as you go up in level.
Whats the average length in 63?
To - "Has anybody tried to negotiate with the purpose of increasing the bonus and stock award granted to them in a review?
No sane person, but if you're in my org and a competitor on my curve I would appreciate you trying.
Amongst the other ways of topping the curve = do excellent work, be perceived to do excellent work, be bosses toady and surround yourself with folks lacking in desirable political skills.
Thanks to MS layoffs May 5th I had a great paid summer off with my son, and I am back to work making better money getting the respect I deserve! If you don't like your review...do something about it! The benefits are not worth it... I am telling you the grass is greener over here!! Good Luck!
So where did you end up if you don't mind sharing with us? No offense, but it seems like there are often lots of comments like this posted here that are short on details, so there's no way to tell whether they are trolling or not.
"Thanks to MS layoffs May 5th I had a great paid summer off with my son, and I am back to work making better money getting the respect I deserve! If you don't like your review...do something about it! The benefits are not worth it... I am telling you the grass is greener over here!! Good Luck!"
Correction -- the grass is greener for you.
I have a number of good friends who were also good employees and who are still unemployed. The grass is not greener for them by a long shot.
"As a manager i don't see promotion velocity (promotions / years) as a meaningful stat. Level + length in level is more appropriate, since promotions are slower as you go up in level."
Your statement is actually false through roughly L66 -- as a 14 year senior manager across multiple divisions, I can tell you that our strong performers through Principal will almost always post a .5 or higher promotion velocity, and this is independent of discipline.
Mid-range constant performers will almost always hover around .4, and those .3 or below are usually curve ballast.
<1% stock 8 shares yes I said 8 shares
Hey poster, you made me feel better. I was shellshocked to get 32 shares last year, the lowest total I'd ever heard of, because our "no child left behind" style manager hated reports more competent than her, and lavished attention on underachievers she wanted to encourage. She pushed top staff down below the median just for fun, to remind us that "we ain't all that" because she didn't need our smarts to become the boss, apparently. And lower staff were put at the top end, to encourage them and show appreciation for all of their improvement during the year, although it still left them below average.
Hang in there, bud.
And if all else fails, take heart that after layoff I've been getting v- offers approximately equal to my MS salary + bonus + yearly portion of stock, that require only a 40 hour work week vs the 80 hour weeks that were usual for me due to my manager over-assigning me work to try to intimidate me out of the company.
And I've put those v- offers off. I'm waiting out a non-compete for a gig that appears to be an even better deal. I honestly am not that interested in using my talents to help the MS bottom line again, when they treated my career with the disrespect they did, saddling me with the worst manager of my 18 year career and refusing to let me transfer out when I had many internal offers in the wings.
And peeps crowing about your gold stars, four in six years at MS and one of those unusual-but-for-real 5.0 reviews didn't save me, so good luck to yas if your manager has a psychicatric condition and decides to take it out on you. Enjoy it while it lasts, because no matter how well you're performing, it may not.
Anonymous writes from a dream about review numbers, Is it possible to make some changes during the review meeting? Is it allowed by HR policies? Do managers leave some room or expect you to negotiate?"
No. I don't believe that's written because it could be incriminating. And, no.
Where I have had limited luck negotiating ratings has been at mid-year, and I suspect that successful negotiation and self-advocacy there enabled my manager to better fight for my piece of the pie at annual review time. My manager and I discussed certain ratings we disagreed on, and it was a give-and-take -- on some I changed my self-ratings, and on some she changed her ratings of me.
But at annual review time? Not gonna happen. I suggest drowning your sorrows with a long night at the corner bar and grill with a handful of your similarly-dissed-on-their-reviews chums, who I guarantee are out there in numbers greater than most think. Yours is not an unknown or even unusual occurrence at The Beast. I've received emails stating briefly, "A/10/screwed," and replied, "Same here, is it time for lunch?". It was 11:30am. I don't think either of us came back to the office that day. Both of us had received gold stars from other managers earlier in the year, and gotten caught in a reorg where the new management team wanted credit for making massive changes, which included identifying their own previously-unseen superstars. It's life. Unpleasant, but life.
You can include "Notes in response" as an addendum to your review after you've seen the manager comments. But bear in mind that this has two problems which can be significant. First, you will piss off your manager, the one you are currently beholden to. Second, you run afoul of the paradox that while one of your review numbers is based on a curve, management (likely a few levels up, too) takes a very, very dim view of you comparing yourself to your peers, which they view as exclusively their job. So really, any attempt to dispute your ranking on the curve is met with even more displeasure than any objections you might raise regarding how they ranked you on achievement of commitments. The safest strategy for this I've heard about, but didn't do myself, was to include a document full of emails from Notable Persons that year, expressing their happiness with your work. In that way, it's not YOUR words that are propping you up, it's theirs.
The best defense is practicing self-defense all year. Don't write your review document 3 days before it's due. Write it all year long. Update it once a month. The final document should be sufficiently detailed, with sufficient evidence of consistent excellent work, that your manager would have some real 'splainin' to do if they didn't give a rating at least near the one you're hoping for.
That doesn't mean it wouldn't happen of course. It does mean that to do so, they'd be taking a risk they might decide isn't worth taking.
Watching your results against commitments all year has the side benefit of being able to hold your manager accountable for making time for you to work on some commitments that might occasionally be low-prioritized due to the need for too much fire-fighting by your team. I.e., "I know the team's in trouble, and I certainly want to do my part, but I am very concerned that I won't match last year's excellent review if you don't allocate me time to work on commitments 3 and 5. Do you have any suggestions as to when I can spend time on those? Or can we work together to replace those with other ambitious commitments more in line with what the team's duties have become?"
EPG Sales: RBI & CBI
Achieved-Top Tier 70%
Bonus (CBI)- max amount for 70%= 18.75%
RBI - 195% payout
Total Bonus: 48.25%
Stock - 85% of Target: My region had a limited bucket for stock this year so you really loose out
Great review comments and solid/good manager.
L59 PM
Exceeded/(none because CS do not have contribution ranking)
Bonus - TBD
Stock: None (CS do not have stock)
Promo: None
Group: SMSG
Merit: None (obviously)
Salary: $43,000
Way to grow! :)
L60
E/70%
Bonus $13k
Stock $6k
Mid-year promo 11%
Ummm people are actually having reviews??? WEX manager hasn't done a single review nor scheduled any review meetings. I have sent him e-mails asking about my review and all I get are thunderiung crickets.
So where did you end up if you don't mind sharing with us? No offense, but it seems like there are often lots of comments like this posted here that are short on details, so there's no way to tell whether they are trolling or not.
I don't know, that guy sounds legit to me and here is why. I was laid off in the first round January, and after two [paid] months of looking for work started as a v- in a small company right next to campus started by bunch of ex-MSFTies. They are paying me 30K more then what I was making as level 63 (although I was quite under the median pay for my level). The benefits aren't as good but I don't have to deal with things like reviews and crazy hours and travel associated with my services position. So for me it worked out just fine.
On other hand, I have 3 friends who were also laid off in the first round and 2 of them are still jobless. They were all PMs whereas I was in technical role.
L60
A/10
5% bonus
insignificant stock
windows org
Do these numbers mean I'm done in the next ~6 months according to other posts here? H1b slave here.
I was trending to A10 if not worse due to the personal conflicts with my manager who is not american. He decided to manage me out since he wanted to micro-manage me differently then the new hire 59 and other non-american colleagues who he had more in common.
That's a pretty provocative, borderline lawsuit-worthy, claim. Anything to back that up?
L63
A/70%
Bonus 13%
Stock 125%
Hey,
Do you know what was the Average bonus % last year and how much this year.
Have they reduced the average %bonus due to recession?
"Your statement is actually false through roughly L66 -- as a 14 year senior manager across multiple divisions, I can tell you that our strong performers through Principal will almost always post a .5 or higher promotion velocity, and this is independent of discipline.
Mid-range constant performers will almost always hover around .4, and those .3 or below are usually curve ballast."
What is the additional info you get from that vs. LiL given that promo velocity factors in lower levels (which people typically move faster through)?
Also, how do you handle distortion due to industry hires, who (in my experience) tend to be lowballed on level coming in with the idea that it can be corrected later?
I am extremely curious, as i've never seen promo velocity mentioned but consistently see LiL. What does it tell you if you have someone who is 64 and has a promo velocity of 1? That they are ready for another promotion? That they will be 20% in the future? That they were underleveled on hire, overpromoted, etc?
post a .5 or higher promotion velocity, and this is independent of discipline.
Mid-range constant performers will almost always hover around .4,
What does a promo velocity of .5 mean? Getting promoted once in 2 years?
L61 (promoted from L60 at mid-year)
E/70
Bonus $18,000 (19% of BES)
Stock $12,500 (130%)
Right around what I expected, and I felt management put me in the correct place in the ranking. No concerns.
L60
A/70
Bonus 7k
Stock 8k
L62 Services
E/20
100% bonus
184% stock
Our team had a good year and I had an individual good year. Sucks we don't get merit increases.
Manager mentioned I was well positioned for a promotion, whatever that means.
Anyway here is a summary of the the sub buckets:
Were those your interpretations of the buckets, or did the paper actually have those breakdowns?
I've never seen people get bucket breakdowns in any formal way before. My manager has shared them with me when I asked. That changed a few years ago when Lisa cared and made changes to the process. She seems to have given up.
L62 Engineering PM, Online Svcs
E/20
Bonus $16k
Stock 220% ($40k)
I can tell you that our strong performers through Principal will almost always post a .5 or higher promotion velocity, and this is independent of discipline.
Mid-range constant performers will almost always hover around .4, and those .3 or below are usually curve ballast.
Ever heard of self-fulfilling prophecies? Or looked over the bounds of your org and discovered that promotion etc. were something else completely in different orgs?
post a .5 or higher promotion velocity, and this is independent of discipline.
Mid-range constant performers will almost always hover around .4,
What does a promo velocity of .5 mean? Getting promoted once in 2 years?
Velocity - rate of position change. Promotion velocity - rate of promotion change: deltaP/deltaT. .5 means 1 promo every 2 years, on average.
"Mid-range constant performers will almost always hover around .4, and those .3 or below are usually curve ballast.
Ever heard of self-fulfilling prophecies? Or looked over the bounds of your org and discovered that promotion etc. were something else completely in different orgs?"
I've been in DevDiv, Windows, MSN and E&D. Not really caring about any of the other businesses, I have a good representative sample. ;-)
L61 A/10%
Bonus: Not even worth writing home about.
Stock: Keep the worthless sh*t
Manager screwed me over. Mid-year indicated no major concerns and everything seemed to be tracking well. Would like to share more details but then I would probably out myself.
Shared results w/ two peers of my manager (who I know well) and they say BS.
Seems like there are a ton of relatively happy outcomes in these comments. My story is a bit different. Despite having one of my most productive years at MS, despite getting a promo last year for doing far less, this is the tale of this year's review, the worst of my 9+ year career at MS:
L63 marketing STB
A/10%
Bonus $7700
Stock $10K
L62 Services
E/20
100% bonus
184% stock
Our team had a good year and I had an individual good year. Everything in this post is impossible to believe.
Just got my review. I'm a lvl 61 ten year employee with a solid review history and I got an underperformed/10. There was no warning this was coming. Our group had layoffs earlier this year and I heard through the grapevine that mgrs had to curve commitment ratings in addition to contribution ratings. The sucky thing is that I wasn't warned, so I wasn't able to avoid the damage. What's worse is that now I'm stuck in this group until I either pull up or get fired. Mgmt doesn't seen sincere about working with me to "fix" the "problems".
Do these numbers mean I'm done in the next ~6 months according to other posts here?
Nope, typical for the group.
Have they reduced the average %bonus due to recession?
Yes for people in Windows (confirmed with multiple sources). If you believe the posts here, no impact in other teams. I've seen a lot of double-digit % bonuses for A/70.
L61 SDET (1 yr into it)
A/20
Base 92k
bonus 11%
Stock 200%
Not much experience with reviews
Is it good? Or it is really bad?
A/20%
Promo:L61 t0 L62
20% bonus
275% stock awards(49.5K).
8% raise
L62 (24 mos) U/10
Question for managers here. According to blog, i got 6wks, any truth to that? Would you give me >50% odds to survive even if i perform well. Is it all in HR/VP control or does my management actually have a say? My manager is honest but i wonder if even the manager is being shitted?
Weird thing is i was top40% in mid year, switched jobs 2mos before review (due to psycho new manager -1/2 the group left in fact). Even my manager was shocked i was in 10%and that group U10% was closer to 20% ??? Manager told me HR pulled it down due to promo velocity. And that my management thought i met or exceeded all my goals ???
L61 Test
A/70
Bonus: 9%
Stock: 100% Target
Promo: None
Got a E/20 last year. Brushing up resume now. Will be leaving shortly.
How much notice period is considered decent before quitting ? One month / two weeks / one week ? I got an A/10 and have decided to leave. not really bothered whether i get another job or not ; just don't want to get fired .
Promotion Velocity 101
PV = NP/NY
where:
PV = Promotion velocity
NP = Number of promotions
NY = Number of years in the company
Consider these two level 63 candidates you interviewed:
Candidate 1: NP = 3 promotions, NY = 6 years in the company, PV = 3/6 = 0.5, LiL = 12 months
Candidate 1: NP = 1 promotion, NY = 6 years in the company, PV = 1/6 = 0.17, LiL = 12 months
where:
LiL = Length in Level (so both candidates received a promotion a year ago)
All other things being equal, who would you hire into your team? Who do you think is the most aggressive candidate toward goals (obviously, seeking the rewards)?
You certainly won’t just do a spreadsheet and hire based on numbers. But many times looking at those numbers is a good compliment to reading past reviews. Someone that says that promotion velocity doesn’t count has little experience in management in general (not only at Microsoft, although probably several of the managers in the company would have a hard time with the Math, if it wasn’t calculated for them!).
L62 Dev (1.5 years in level)
Exceeded/20%
17% Bonus
218% Stock
Results were better than I'd hoped for.
Ummm people are actually having reviews??? WEX manager hasn't done a single review nor scheduled any review meetings. I have sent him e-mails asking about my review and all I get are thunderiung crickets.
Same here. I haven't had my review either. My manager says it will happen by September 15.
"Promotion Velocity 101 ..."
Thanks for the breakdown.
I'd still push back on looking at the number as being meaningful in and of itself. There is other context you need to interpret it (in your example, you use current level to normalize expectations). But without context on mgmt changes (which can delay promos) or underleveling at hire (which can accelerate them), it's pretty easy for promo velocity to be distorted.
Just got my review. I'm a lvl 61 ten year employee with a solid review history and I got an underperformed/10. There was no warning this was coming.
What was your starting level at the company? Assuming you started at 58/59, then 10 years @ level 61 WAS the warning. You and your previous managers simply ignored the situation. You should've been let go a while ago.
"Manager says i have reached my level in less number of years against average 5-6 years.. Guess he is saying do not expect a level rise."
You can determine this yourself by looking at your promotion velocity -- .5 and above is generally faster than normal, .4 is pretty average, .3 and below is behind the curve.
So I've been around the working world fr along time and just don't understand the promotion velocity stuff. Can someone explain this to me - I just don't get it...
Has anyone every looked at their http://managepoint site?
Anyone know what the "Incentive Package" is all about? Mine is C1. What does your's say?
L#64 (no promo)
Exceeded/20
Bonus $50k
Stock $60k
PM
"All I want to know is, are there more layoffs coming in September."
Yes they are. September 2nd. You'll learn about them next week.
I've read the current MS employment agreement, and no advance notice is required in either direction before you quit or are fired, although they do appreciate notice.
L59
A/70%
bonus 5%
stock 100%
Can someone explain how bonus and stock % correspond to where you stand amongst your peers. Is there a correlation?
Got a E/20 last year. Brushing up resume now. Will be leaving shortly.
Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.
It looks like you were pretty high in the 70% bucket. So you didn't meet the 20% bar this year. Boo freaking hoo.
All other things being equal, who would you hire into your team? Who do you think is the most aggressive candidate toward goals (obviously, seeking the rewards)?
One glaring problem is the constant state of reorg that many groups experience. I had 7 managers in my first 2 years, now just wrapping up my third. Tell me how to succeed with that. Answer = you can't. You rely heavily on those managers to adequately assess incoming or outgoing directs, and for the next manager to properly weigh that input. It just doesn't happen, people, not with this many changing heads. I got screwed, twice, so this FY was really my first real opportunity to show my work. And I kicked butt.
How much notice period is considered decent before quitting ? One month / two weeks / one week ? I got an A/10 and have decided to leave.
Two weeks is fine. For A/10s teams can do with even less.
L# 61 No Promo(Achieved / 70)
Bonus $11K
Stock 95%
What can I say.. People loosing there jobs left and right, I feel blessed. I cant complain.
As usual, the numbers are all over the place, so not to sure whom to believe.
We have people receiving 300% stock grants, 100% bonuses, A/20 and E/20s everywhere, so there's really no way to tell what the heck is going on.
Of course, no Mini topic would be complete with a few members of the "grass is greener on the other side" club, the former MSFTs who have left and are now making 50% more than their level 64 salaries, in some local companies not to be ever named, in one of the worst job markets in American history.
The truth is probably somewhere in between.
L61 SDET (1 yr into it)
A/20
Base 92k
bonus 11%
Stock 200%
Not much experience with reviews
Is it good? Or it is really bad?
Its good, really good..
L62 (24 mos) U/10
Question for managers here. According to blog, i got 6wks, any truth to that? Would you give me >50% odds to survive even if i perform well. Is it all in HR/VP control or does my management actually have a say? My manager is honest but i wonder if even the manager is being shitted?
Weird thing is i was top40% in mid year, switched jobs 2mos before review (due to psycho new manager -1/2 the group left in fact). Even my manager was shocked i was in 10%and that group U10% was closer to 20% ??? Manager told me HR pulled it down due to promo velocity. And that my management thought i met or exceeded all my goals ???
Your manager is not being honest.
The # of weeks is made up. Nobody should've gotten a U though without a lot of clear communication before the review.
To -
Question for managers here. According to blog, i got 6wks, any truth to that? Would you give me >50% odds to survive even if i perform well. ............
Not enough information here. Need to know your BG and product and how you fit into the overall picture as well as your orgs experience the last couple rounds.
If you're in a place likely to never be profitable or strategic, if you are one of many in your level band, if your org was untouched or mostly untouched by prior layoffs and if you are near or just completed shipping something - I'd be worried.
If you're mostly not the above AND you have a good relationship with the new manager, then you have hope.
If your manager is giving you some story about HR making them do it, or being surprised, etc, it sounds more like you could have some small amount of hope.
It also says your manager is incredibly weak or clued out or someone above them doesn't like you.
So, even if you get a reprieve this round you need to work two paths. 1. Get in deep with your manager to make sure it doesn't happen again. Every 1 on 1 you should discuss and then send your notes back to them while gushing about how great they are. 6 months of this will give even the most dull witted of managers pause and they'll make someone else the fall guy while informing everyone how they rehabilitated you. 2. Work at the same time on getting out in case 1 doesn't work. Consider this review a wake up call to a bad fit or dysfunctional management.
Good luck.
E/70%
BON=12%
SA=28.5K$/120%[this is half of last year's stock awards]
MER=0.0%
L62PM,
6 years at microsoft,
PV=0.4,
LiL=12months,
sweating it out, trying to be happy with my paycheque.
L63
Exceeded/20
Bonus $22100
Stock $49000
Golden handcuffs, getting tighter.
So, 2 quick questions -- sorry for my ignorance, but I still don't have a handle on a lot of this stuff (at my 3rd review -- I really should be reading a manual or something):
(1) Does it mean anything to be reclassified into COGS during the performance year?
(2) I got a note that my stock has vested for the year. I take it that's typical for everyone?
My review hasn't happened yet. I believe we're shooting for Wednesday.
MS IT India is getting ready to let go of bottom 10% within 2 weeks; any word on other regions? nasty battle within leadership teams all time high. Meher Afroz may have survived, Murali Krishna is struggling to keep his job as ExD lead. Nagender Vedula continue to pound on Murali.
Sreeni Simhadri is trying to play safe. Dipender Gill is nowhere to find, he continue to work hard between 10:00 A.M to 3:00 P.M work schedule. Who is 10% in L65-67 in FY'09? Is that Murali or Dipinder or Meher?
How much notice period is considered decent before quitting ? One month / two weeks / one week ? I got an A/10 and have decided to leave. not really bothered whether i get another job or not ; just don't want to get fired .
Two weeks notice is decent. However, I'd recommend not quitting without another job.
It's important to get yourself into a good frame of mind/body before looking for more work. One way to do this is to scale back your commitment to 40 or 45 hours per week, do the best work you can in that time, and use the rest of your time to get healthy and sharpen technical skills. Take walks, start a hobby project.
At work, make all your choices based on leaving in a small number of weeks with an eye to how you can help your group and how you can transfer your knowledge to other people in the company. It's liberating and you end up doing pretty good work.
After doing this a while, you should be bright eyed and bushy tailed. Much more employable than if you left with your head down.
And maybe you'll buy some more time to decide what to do, although that can depend more on project politics than work performance.
How does promotion velocity scale with level? I'm a 65 in the field...My career ladder shows a 66 possibility, but there are maybe two 66s in the country in my job. I don't think there's any chance I'll make that level (and not in the next four years, at least).
I've been in level 2.5 years - What's my future?
Was anybody laid off?
L59 -> L60 (P)
E/20
Bonus $11K
Stock $12K
Promo 8%
H1-B PM slave, my manager is great so the review went as expected. Although I received nice bonus and stock incentives considering my level and base salary, the underleveled on hire comment resonates with me. Looking forward to have a better FY10 but I'll also keep my eyes open to see what else is going on; in retrospective, there was too much additional work to maintain execution expectations in H2.
L61
Achieved-Mid/70% Low
Bonus: 6%
Stock: 85%
On reviews, layoffs and work/life balance, I wonder if anyone in SLT or HR bothers with studies like this: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32600699/ns/health-mental_health/
Just had mine.
L61-62 UX
Exceeded/70
$14,191K Bonus
130% stock ($23,400)
Promo: Yes
Group: DevDiv
Merit: None (obviously)
Salary: $102,084
L62 Engineering
Exceeded/20
Bonus: 11%
Stock: 180%
Promo: none
Org: Office
Is this commensurate with figures in other orgs?
L62 (16 months)
A/20
Bonus 10%
Stock 180%
Gold Star award in March.
The review was good, and I really like my manager. The review and the numbers though have not changed much from the previous years (3 total) and I am starting to wonder how to crack the A/20 part to get it to E/20 to improve more.
L61 Dev
Achieved \ 70%
10% bonus
120% stock
L61 Dev
A/70
11% Bonus
120% Stocks
Was expecting promo, as everybody else on this blog. Didn't get it. Seems that the privilege was for old schoolers. It sucks, but better than not having a job altogether. Sucking it up...
Does anyone know how much $ the gold star award for level 63 is?
Hmm looking at these #'s I guess I got major low-balled with L63 <90k annual coming in from a subsidiary.
It's great to be a H1b slave...Hooray!! :)
This kind of comment is why you need to be appropriately releveled lower. Unfortunate that someone stroked your ego coming in.
Oo and with a pending GC, can't get promo's either, so basically I am a true Slave at your service MSFT...
This is not true. Quit trolling.
Best,
L66 H1B with 7 promos from L59
"What can I say.. People loosing there jobs left and right, I feel blessed. I cant complain."
One of the few who appears to be keeping things in perspective. It's appreciated.
Many of the other replies here have been downright maddening.
Signed,
A still-struggling-to-find-work member of the 1400
PM in Windows
59 -> 60
E/20
Promo raise: 5%
Bonus: 12% of BES
Stock: 200% of target
Numbers are good but there was some harsh feedback in the review that I'm still trying to digest.
My friend has been managed out by his manager a few days back. It is really sad because he has great technical skills (He has published a few papers.). This is a total loss for Microsoft. The manager is nontechnical. My friend has been given achieved 10% (This is the greatest slap to the face as he is a very hard working and competent guy). He has to meet the skip manager and HR in a few days. Can he do any thing to retain his job or ask for more time? He is an H1B worker (I do not know why they are treated like dogs?). I feel really bad for him and Microsoft :(. Please give suggestion as to what he can he do?
My friend has been managed out by his manager a few days back. It is really sad because he has great technical skills (He has published a few papers.). This is a total loss for Microsoft. The manager is nontechnical. My friend has been given achieved 10% (This is the greatest slap to the face as he is a very hard working and competent guy). He has to meet the skip manager and HR in a few days. Can he do any thing to retain his job or ask for more time? He is an H1B worker (I do not know why they are treated like dogs?). I feel really bad for him and Microsoft :(. Please give suggestion as to what he can he do?
if he was managed out, isn't he out ? or are you saying he is in process of being maanged out and has just the exit interview left.
Probably done unless he has case to argue.
A10 doesn't mean out usually
anybody who says v- make money is liar. agencies keep 30% margin minimum (difficult skills) & 60% margins for easy skills.
Do the math. V- making money is a big big lie
L64 -> L65 promo at review
Achieved/70
Bonus: 10%
Stock: 120%
Raise: 5%
Not good, but not bad this year. The promo was the key reward, or I would probably have left Microsoft.
L62 Dev
A /10%
$5k bonus
Stock = 35% of target
I think it's either get promoted in the next year or I'm out...
Anonymous @10:53pm tells a tale of woe about a managed-out technical coworker who was given an Achieved/10 by his non-technical manager despite doing good work. The poster then goes on to say that said person must meet his skip-level and HR next week.
A curious person lurking around the corner would like to know, how can he be managed out, if he still has to meet with the skip level and HR? Was he managed out and not walked to the door?
Please take heed of the words I highlighted in a summary of the situation. Target is a technical guy who's published papers. Manager is non-technical. First mistake is assuming that published papers and other achievements valued by engineers necessarily matter to a non-technical manager. Non-technical managers value adherence to process, often adherence to sharply-set daily hours, powerpoints, teams meeting unrealistic deadlines dropped down on a hapless team from some PM fairy above, how many cross-group v-teams their staff sit on (which shows their team's importance to the org, although most v-teams are a joke that exist to generate powerpoints and pad reviews, and don't generate value commensurate with their expense), suck-uppy emails to their management about what a difference that manager has made to the team, and politics. They're things they understand, vs. the technical stuff they may not get. Fail to get this, fairly quickly on, can spell one's demise. And it's part of Microsoft's issue, because folks spend time on those things rather than on things that better contribute to product development.
Person goes on to say, "He is an H1B worker (I do not know why they are treated like dogs?)."
Ya lost me RIGHT THERE.
I'm a red-blooded American. I ran afoul of the same circumstances last year and was part of the MS 1400 of January 2009. While it might be accurate (I don't know) to claim that THAT MANAGER treats them that way, it's not an across-the-board truth. For example, an H1B with months of absenses each year he's been employed, to visit sick or getting-married relatives back in the subcontinent Old Country, who does only barely adequate work, but who keeps a very low profile by never saying a word in staff meetings or in email because he lacks confidence with the English language, is still employed on our team, and I am not. Plenty of great people who aren't H1B have met similar fates due to ignorant management and a failure on the part of the target to adequately work around that problem (which is not always possible).
Advice? You didn't provide enough details. What's his tenure at MS? What are his other review scores? Was he given any sort of warning at mid-year?
My friend has been managed out by his manager a few days back. It is really sad because he has great technical skills (He has published a few papers.). This is a total loss for Microsoft. The manager is nontechnical. My friend has been given achieved 10% (This is the greatest slap to the face as he is a very hard working and competent guy). He has to meet the skip manager and HR in a few days. Can he do any thing to retain his job or ask for more time? He is an H1B worker (I do not know why they are treated like dogs?). I feel really bad for him and Microsoft :(. Please give suggestion as to what he can he do?
I am not sure when he has been managed out how does he can meet skip and hr again. Honestly speaking trying to meet with hr and skip will be just waste of time. Your friend is H1B so he can still search job inside united states. There are certain indian consulting companies who show h1b people as their employees. That will cost some thousand bucks for your friend. If your friend can manage one of those companies then he can have some time to search for a job. Otherwise he need to return back to his origin. Your friend can collect his return ticket from Microsoft.
I appreciate your feeling about your friend. But honestly speaking microsoft is not in a short of qualified people. These days they just want to get rid of people either they are good or bad. If your friend tell hr or skip level manager about his external achievement they may just tell that this is not in microsoft and they do not want to believe anything except microsoft review.
How much notice period is considered decent before quitting ? One month / two weeks / one week ? I got an A/10 and have decided to leave. not really bothered whether i get another job or not ; just don't want to get fired .
You can quit the same day.
Officially (what goes on in social networks is something else), Microsoft will only confirm you worked for the company.
He has to meet the skip manager and HR in a few days. Can he do any thing to retain his job or ask for more time? He is an H1B worker (I do not know why they are treated like dogs?). I feel really bad for him and Microsoft :(. Please give suggestion as to what he can he do?
If your friend has not been playing the "visibility" game, your friend will have to make the skip level manager aware of their accomplishments and qualifications.
Problems on reviews where they want to get rid of you are vague (e.g. "communication problem") so they can spin it any way they want.
If there are specific complaints that can be refuted with facts (code, emails, etc.), your friend can show where management's assessment is in error.
Keep in mind HR is not technical either so they take the word of the manager. The thinking being your manager has a higher level than you so they are more credible than you.
If your friend was not "visible" to the other managers, they are going to take your friend's manager's word.
If the skip level manager has a technical background, your friend could concentrate on making their case to the skip level manager.
My friend has been managed out by his manager a few days back. It is really sad because he has great technical skills (He has published a few papers.). This is a total loss for Microsoft. The manager is nontechnical. My friend has been given achieved 10% (This is the greatest slap to the face as he is a very hard working and competent guy). He has to meet the skip manager and HR in a few days. Can he do any thing to retain his job or ask for more time? He is an H1B worker (I do not know why they are treated like dogs?). I feel really bad for him and Microsoft :(. Please give suggestion as to what he can he do?
Most of the people in Microsoft are very competent. Are you sure publishing few papers proves that your friend is significantly better than a large population in microsoft? Remember there are some people in MSR who publish papers regularly but that do not contribute anything towards the business of Microsoft.
"He is an H1B worker (I do not know why they are treated like dogs?). I feel really bad for him and Microsoft :(. Please give suggestion as to what he can he do?
Looks like he is pretty competent, I'd bet Amazon would like to hire him.
It is really sad because he has great technical skills (He has published a few papers.).
Ahhh, yes, the great "has published papers" metric for determining technical skills. Yes, our business is built upon publishing papers, isn't it?
Sounds like he needs to "publish some code" to me.
"All other things being equal, who would you hire into your team? Who do you think is the most aggressive candidate toward goals (obviously, seeking the rewards)?"
And all this has resulted in the current crop of cretins running Microsoft into the ground. So much for the importance of PV.
Man, looking at this thread I'm really glad I moved on to greener pastures in February. You're wasting roughly 30% or more of your workday on BS that has nothing to do with your work. Spinning the wheels, sitting in meetings, kissing up, backstabbing, etc. And you get sub-inflation income growth in return. But it gets better, as majority of you get no income growth this year, which, believe me, will be felt pretty well once the inflation finally kicks in (December?).
Seriously, do you not have any dignity anymore? If you're worth anything at all and have ideas that you haven't yet widely communicated internally, GTFO and try it on your own. At the worst, you will fail, but at MSFT you will inevitably fail once you saturate in level. I'll take some probability of success over nothing any day.
Just got my review. I'm a lvl 61 ten year employee with a solid review history and I got an underperformed/10. There was no warning this was coming.
What was your starting level at the company? Assuming you started at 58/59, then 10 years @ level 61 WAS the warning. You and your previous managers simply ignored the situation. You should've been let go a while ago.
There is an underlying assumption in much of the discussion here - that because MSFT was a fair deal for you, it must be for all others. Think about it this way - assuming the review system and leveling is inherently random (I hesitate to use the term 'unfair' - fair is hard to define), you'd expect a significant sample to complain about being underlevelled. I think mini provides insight into that space very well. How would you expect the people who are 'overlevelled' to feel? My expectation is that they feel fairly compensated instead of thinking about how much more than they deserve they take home every day, and will have no problem defending the status quo from an emotional perspective.
I can tell you from my personal experience about two developers that I've known; one of them owned and kicked ass in a major product-wide critical feature area for five years, and by driving I mean he did not only his job, but wrote most of the specs and the test-tools. 59 all the way, left for greener pastures when he finally got the promotion to 60 after the end of the 5 years.
My other example is a dev who has been with MSFT for far longer than 10 years, the expert in a very technical area. He's a level 60 after all these years (he doesn't do political correctness, had real bad luck with his management chain all through his career).
There are two perspectives on employees like these (and I've met the counterexamples, too - L65 and above after < 4 years at MSFT due to ridiculously simple but highly visible contributions and smart politics, firmly convinced that they succeeded because of talent and that anyone who hasn't must be stupid and not worthy of consideration because of how they are levelled).
Perspective one is that we're doing the company a (short-term) service by wringing the most out of these folks at the lowest cost possible and that there are always replacements waiting to be hired. That is true. My bias is towards playing the long game instead.
Perspective two is that anyone with real low promo velocity and longterm tenure should be a red flag against their management chain because they are either not culling the fat or not developing talent.
If the employee is a waste of compensation, we should get rid of them. If they aren't, we should rectify the situation. Cases of ICs who spent their early years at MSFT just loving the job and focusing on results who are now looking around and getting angry because they feel inadequately compensated are not a good combo for employee or employer. This is not an unlikely scenario for engineers hired for their passion for technology (instead of their political skills).
We don't have tools to correct such situations - economically, we have a highly regulated market inside MSFT: the current level informs what jobs you can interview for, and promo velocity is taken into account as a criterion in hiring and promotion (a feedback loop for better and for worse).
Freeing up the poaching and horizontal transfer constraints on people with a pv < 0.4 could help with that.
L59->60
Exceeded/70
15% Bonus
125% Stock ($7500)
3% Promo
Question to all the long-timers.. My manager said that typically it is highly abnormal to give promotions to L59's who've been at Microsoft for < 1 year, but I apparently kicked ass so he really fought for it. I don't doubt the fact that he argued on my behalf, but I'm wondering about the < 1 year thing.
Also, I feel as though I got slightly gipped on my promotion increase (basically it'll keep up with the inflation rate). But granted that there were no merit increases this year, I can understand.
Would appreciate any feedback :)
L64
E/70
Bonus $18K
Stock $29K
2 years in level
wrt the gold star at L63, Gold Stars don't have a magic number. They're usually another 5-year stock award, but not always. Sometimes the numbers for a Gold Star award will be related to previous years' stock award numbers more or less.
So, what's with this "treated like dogs" comment? Dogs in America are often treated better than other members of the family! That must be great getting such great treatment! Do you work in one of the incubation/Ozzie/Mundie groups?
wow, so many ungrateful and bitter comments...You should be thankful you a) have a job and b) got some money during the review. Makes me kinda mad. I was part of the may layoffs and it wasn't based on performance, our entire team got cut because of lack of vision from our VP. But that's a different story. Let me tell you, it's a b*tch up there, so take your review and stop whining about it. And if you're not happy, leave next week, there are plenty of people who would love to come back to work at MSFT. I hope on 9/2 the ax will fall on all those lazy people who I know go to work to warm up their seat, facebook for 2 hours a day and then leave early. It's time the fat got really skimmed. If that doesn't happen, I will have lost all my respect for the SLT.
"My friend has been managed out by his manager a few days back. It is really sad because he has great technical skills (He has published a few papers.). This is a total loss for Microsoft. The manager is nontechnical. My friend has been given achieved 10% (This is the greatest slap to the face as he is a very hard working and competent guy). He has to meet the skip manager and HR in a few days. Can he do any thing to retain his job or ask for more time? He is an H1B worker (I do not know why they are treated like dogs?). I feel really bad for him and Microsoft :(. Please give suggestion as to what he can he do?"
Publishing has nothing to do with technical product development talent -- some of the very worst prod dev hires we've made over the years have been PhDs who had brilliant academic careers that didn't translate into a business setting.
One of Google's biggest issues is its slavish devotion to the academic model, which is bemoaned throughout the company -- it's the reason they have so much difficulty getting finished products out the door (e.g., gmail is now in it's 6th year as a beta release, youtube continues to bleed money, Google Office is languishing as a series of disconnected beta experiences, etc.).
L59 (Promo to 60) PM
A/70
Bonus: 8%
Stock: 120%
Raise: 3%
"If you really feel you were not assessed fairly you can talk to your orgs HR generalist, but be advised that this will put your manager on the spot."
I did just that and after a few months I won. I got my review reversed and a second round review with my manager where he had to tell me my new scores and amend the review.
AFAIK, nothing happened to my manager even if I was able to demonstrate that he was laying and should not work for a company like MS. So I am really curios if anyone can tell me how this will affect him. I can only hope I destroyed his career as he was trying to do with mine.
L59->60
Exceeded/70
15% Bonus
125% Stock ($7500)
3% Promo
Question to all the long-timers.. My manager said that typically it is highly abnormal to give promotions to L59's who've been at Microsoft for < 1 year, but I apparently kicked ass so he really fought for it. I don't doubt the fact that he argued on my behalf, but I'm wondering about the < 1 year thing.
Jordan .. be happy you got the promo .. but in the same boat bewary.
"Ahhh, yes, the great "has published papers" metric for determining technical skills. Yes, our business is built upon publishing papers, isn't it?
Sounds like he needs to "publish some code" to me."
Well,he was a much better coder than 60-70% in his department and its not all about writing papers,he did more than just "achieved" for sure.By the way ,can anyone contest his/her managers decision about the 10% bucket?Just wondering.
Depinder it is who gets 10% this time, Ted hates him. No one knows his role. Where the hell you heard about MS IT India layoffs? I don't expect any layoffs ahead of Win7 release
PM in Windows
59 -> 60
E/20
Promo raise: 5%
Bonus: 12% of BES
Stock: 200% of target
Numbers are good but there was some harsh feedback in the review that I'm still trying to digest.
**********************
what kind of feedback? from whom? your manager(s) or peer feed back?
actually, a general question, how do you know your manager isn't black-mailing you with peer feedback? I know my review will probably be very good. But my manager seriously would put me in a bad mood if he presents me with some peer feedback. What exactly does he expect me to do with them?
After 14 years at MSFT I was one of the January 1,400. I got a queasy feeling reading the comments here: all that angst and obsession with arcane management metrics. Yes: I was obsessed with those too, when I was in the process. But now I can look on from outside; and I want to scream, "Guys - you're arguing about angels dancing on a needlepoint. None of it matters!". I now have a good job in a company where I feel much more valued and respected than I did at MSFT. There's not as much hoopla about "change the world"; but we do make good, sturdy, useful software which customers want to buy. So I'm very glad I'm out, and I encourage anyone who's thinking of leaving to get out too. I'm still paranoid enough not to leave too much identifying information, but this is not a troll (I used to have lunch in Building 4 cafeteria, that's all I'll say :)
BTW, the review process was *once* quite reasonable. Old review docs from 1996 look straightforward and sensible. I don't remember exactly when it turned into a bizarre Byzantine nightmare ... it was a slow, stealthy descent into madness. I suspect LisaB is fundamentally well-intentioned, but the problems were way too big for her to solve/cope with.
Are GMs the new PUMs . In ISD there is a separate team formed recently, with all the loser GMs clubbed in. Do these people deserve their compensation. Why cant these people be let go, instead of the lowly ICs
L59->L60 (P)
E/20
20% bonus
250% L60 stock
2.5% promo increase ?!?!
Did everyone who got promos get >5% except for the one other L59 above me?
I feel like I had a great year and my management is awesome which makes it almost easy. I didn't expect 20% bonus or 250% stock (I didn't even realize you get stock at your promo level and not at your current level, since L59's get screwed on stock (200% cap) I had low expectations). But I did expect promo and more than 2.5%. Given the other numbers I can't be unhappy, but seriously, wtf, esp since I was L59 so 2.5% is pennies in terms of actual $? I see people posting promos at 5%, 8%, etc. Did I just loose out to a bad promo budget in my group or something?
Anonymous 10:44:00 AM said,
(Talk of promotion velocity etc.)
Freeing up the poaching and horizontal transfer constraints on people with a pv < 0.4 could help with that.
Interesting idea. LisaB? I'm guessing you've given up and are just trying to enjoy the good life with the basketball team now. If not, this could help retain FTEs who are not too valued in their own group, possibly because it's a group of superstars and they're just the lowest superstar on the totem pole, find interesting opportunities outside it.
There's a good point here that was one of my issues when I was still with the company.
If you are doing tough stuff and are underleveled due to politics or just because they know you will put up with it (eg, if you like your team's work or are a returned "retiree") allowing them to give the promo dollars to others, it can be difficult to move. Most other groups looking for someone of that level will be looking for fewer or lower level skills. It might make sense to some to take a "coast" job they can ace and hopefully rack up a mid-year promotion fairly quickly. Other technical people can recognize a boredom scenario when they see it and, knowing they don't do well in jobs with a lack of challenge or lack of learning opportunities, will avoid them.
The ability to recruit these people at a higher level, if there are teams who are aware of the true level the person's been working at, could be a good retention tool. Eventually everyone gets tired of their team, and some of those .4's and even .3's probably look at things and think, "I can find something more professionally challenging on the outside."
After a management change, when the new manager assigned me work at my level rather than the work a level or two above that previous managers had assigned to me, it was a brain-rotting experience. I left for the outside within 6 weeks, concerned that I'd lose my technical edge if I tried to slog it out much longer.
I'd looked internally. There was nothing at my level that looked to be a good career move in terms of continued development of my tech and biz skills. Two levels up, yes. But I couldn't get interviewed for them. My plan is to interview again in about a year, for positions my buds tell me are levelled two levels above where I was.
L 64 --> 65
E/20
Bonus (MCS)
UBI $28000
CBI $30000
Stock $100K
(Promo $7K)
MCS Rocks :). Currently MSFT is the best place to be because the only direction it can go is up. I see a huge oppty. GOOG and AAPL are already up in ego, stock, and everything.
L60
E/20
Bonus 20%
Stock 275%
I had a great year. The only fly in the ointment was no promotion.
L62 > L63 (Promo)
Exceeded 20%
Bonus $17,500
Raise in base $9200
Stock 220%
Good year for a newbie.
L60 (No promo)
A 70 (As per my manager it's Top tier 70. Not sure, though :-| )
Bonus 11%
Stock 85%
No level change since I joined MSFT back in Feb 2007.
Last year: A70 (top tier) with 12% hike.
Please help me understand what to make out of it. I'm concerned about my Lil and no promo since I joined MS 2.5 yrs back.
Do I need to be worried??
Took me 3 years of nights and weekends to go from 59 to 60. Consider yourself lucky.
Why are review results this year surprising even some managers?
Some people have exceeded expectations, and are complaining of not being promoted. Others, achieved, and are being promoted. A level 61 can somehow end-up with more bonus than a level 64. As a manager, I’m having a hard time “owning the message”. After the calibration meetings this year - the most political ones of a long time – recommendations were changed at upper levels. I blame HR more than the poor senior managers in this company. The commitments ratings, as per the HR guidelines, shouldn't be calibrated. But they were!
What is the message that the company is sending to employees when someone that really exceeded expectations gets an achieved? Or worse, what is the message to someone that only achieved and gets an exceeded only because that person won't get a deserved promotion? Due to a small promotion budget, managers had to make political deals to somehow compensate some employees with minimal fairness. Yet, when the final review model came with calibrated commitment ratings, all hell broke loose. That is creating the mixed message that some are seeing in their reviews, where the written feedback doesn’t match the ratings this year. Believe me: some people even deserved an underperformed, but that couldn't be done, or they would be walked out. Instead of having someone that has the potential to improve getting a strong message and delivering next year, managers now have just to hope those people won't continue with the same borderline performance from the last year, or go through the painfully PIP.
Making reviews and delivering the message was never easy like Sunday morning. But this year, being a manager at Microsoft is definitely harder.
L65
Achieved/20
RBI: $72K
CBI: $21K @ 15%
Stock: $66K @ 170%
Base: $135K
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