tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7555958.post112744201359651161..comments2024-03-18T12:52:48.117-07:00Comments on Mini-Microsoft: Microsoft Company Meeting 2005Who da'Punkhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18205453956191063442noreply@blogger.comBlogger256125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7555958.post-1128448530412638212005-10-04T10:55:00.000-07:002005-10-04T10:55:00.000-07:00About the cool code, the rah rah speeches and what...About the cool code, the rah rah speeches and what your customers want. I <I>am</I> your customer, on two levels. First, my "day job" is for a major Enterprise customer, where we are all standardized on Office 2003, Server 2003, Exchange Server, etc. At that level, I have to say that there is at least one happy camper out here. I <I>love</I> your stuff, from Word to OneNote, for getting the work of business done. Is it perfect? Hell no. Is it pretty fine anyway? Yeah. I appreciate the features and flexibility, the hard work you guys put in, and especially the efforts of the "what does Lisa want in the next release" department, which I am certain, from the available evidence, does exist.<BR/>On a second level, I am a freelance developer, developing using Office VBA, Access, VB.Net, ASP, ASP.net, FrontPage, and SQL server to satisfy a variety of clients. And again, I am a happy camper. Finally, VB has the same kind of OOP tools as C, and I never did have to learn C! <BR/>I don't know how you guys on the front lines of coding or selling are compensated, but if I got a vote, it'd be pretty good. The better you work, the better I work, and I appreciate you all.<BR/><BR/>Lisa Morgan<BR/>lisamorgan@lairhaven.comAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7555958.post-1127906986310182412005-09-28T04:29:00.000-07:002005-09-28T04:29:00.000-07:00"When are they going to wise up that a good, healt..."When are they going to wise up that a good, healthy chunk of the decent stuff in OSS actually is the result of FTEs at IBM, Novell, Red Hat, and a handfull of other companies?"<BR/><BR/>Come on, don't be bashful. Name a few more. There's Cisco, Linksys, Intel, Epson, etc., etc.<BR/><BR/>Seems that there's really only one major company which is too insecure to collaborate. The price of isolation is death.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7555958.post-1127800154500685932005-09-26T22:49:00.000-07:002005-09-26T22:49:00.000-07:00Just saw part of the co meeting today (was too bus...Just saw part of the co meeting today (was too busy working to make it on friday). For the love of Jesus and the sweet mother Mary - can someone please stop Office from using that stupid goddamn dinosaur ad? Did Office not get the memo? Everyone HATED that campaign and the press slaughtered it. Some goddamn PUM just had to sneak it in there didn't they?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7555958.post-1127784682750868922005-09-26T18:31:00.000-07:002005-09-26T18:31:00.000-07:00FWIW, from looking at the people both Google and M...FWIW, from looking at the people both Google and Micrsoft hired from my alma mater of the 2005 grads, I partially agree with both comments about new talent.<BR/><BR/>Among Google's hires were most of the top people that didn't choose grad school, but it also took a few it definitely wouldn't have given the time of day to pre-IPO. On the other hand, the Google hires in the latter category were comparable in caliber to the people that went to Microsoft - none of the top went to MS.<BR/><BR/>It's very possible both of the following are true:<BR/>1) Google's standards are decreasing<BR/>2) Microsoft is currently unable to attract the top x%Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7555958.post-1127779714055711252005-09-26T17:08:00.000-07:002005-09-26T17:08:00.000-07:00Close, but no cigar... I switched away from CS to ...Close, but no cigar... I switched away from CS to medical school, and don't have any vested interest in either. I'm just calling it as I see it, which you either may not like or may not agree with, but, well, it's what I think :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7555958.post-1127778844106120242005-09-26T16:54:00.000-07:002005-09-26T16:54:00.000-07:00"It used to be that the people they would hire wer..."It used to be that the people they would hire were near-universally respected as brilliant. Anecdotally speaking, though, the devs they've hired recently have definitely been a cut below the ones Microsoft has been hiring."<BR/><BR/>This is nice MS spin, but it's simply not true. I would say that maybe 1/3 of Microsoft devs could get a job at Google if they wanted to, most of them simply wouldn't pass muster. Microsoft would love to get the talent they're hiring right now. Sounds like someone is bitter because they have a $28 Microsoft strike price and we know it'll never hit that number again. :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7555958.post-1127769767725831862005-09-26T14:22:00.000-07:002005-09-26T14:22:00.000-07:00Re: GoogleBeing from one of Google's pipeline scho...Re: Google<BR/><BR/>Being from one of Google's pipeline schools (specifically, the same one as the CEOs went to,) I can definitely say the quality of people that they're hiring has gone way down. It used to be that the people they would hire were near-universally respected as brilliant. Anecdotally speaking, though, the devs they've hired recently have definitely been a cut below the ones Microsoft has been hiring. Of course, the one or two "rock star" devs end up going to Google, but for all this talk here about how Google is some sort of dev utopia, they've been filling their ranks with mediocre devs at a high rate. And of course, the pay is worse, ignoring stock -- and of course, new hires get stuck with the $315 strike price. As someone said a few posts above, you'll make far more money working for a faceless conglomerate like Oracle or doing consulting.<BR/><BR/>Of course, this isn't to say that Microsoft doesn't have problems, but the grass is always greener... and, objectively speaking from talking to people who work at both, there are definitely a couple people who are very happy, most who are okay, and a couple who hate it (although to be fair, the people who hate Microsoft seem to be mostly apathetic about doing their jobs, whereas the Google people still work overtime, but are biding their time until they cash out all of their options.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7555958.post-1127709325630366622005-09-25T21:35:00.000-07:002005-09-25T21:35:00.000-07:00>>and pretending that OpenSource isn't a huge thre...<I> >>and pretending that OpenSource isn't a huge threat<BR/>>Once, they feared you. Then they matched you. Now they are laughing at you. Soon they will ignore you. You have lost.</I><BR/><BR/>Yeah, I think the OSS guys have lost too. When are they going to wise up that a good, healthy chunk of the decent stuff in OSS actually is the result of FTEs at IBM, Novell, Red Hat, and a handfull of other companies? Way to stick it to the "man", kids.<BR/><BR/>(I can't help but wonder if MS could somehow return the favor to these guys by funding some bit of OSS that impinges on their market? That would truly be amusing.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7555958.post-1127694105691079392005-09-25T17:21:00.000-07:002005-09-25T17:21:00.000-07:00Once, they feared you. Then they matched you. Now ...Once, they feared you. Then they matched you. Now they are laughing at you. Soon they will ignore you. You have lost.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7555958.post-1127691273574617942005-09-25T16:34:00.000-07:002005-09-25T16:34:00.000-07:00Well, one thing this blog has done for me - made m...Well, one thing this blog has done for me - made me realize that I was right to leave a year ago. <BR/><BR/>I was sad to leave a company where I was initially so excited. But after several years of constant turmoil and "reorgs" (I don't know what they were, but they didn't "organize" anything), I left for another software company that is smaller, offers similar benefits, a much more positive work environment - and I love doing what I'm doing. <BR/><BR/>My parting inteview at MS was "people [who are disgruntled like you] often find that leaving here is the best thing for them." While that was an insulting was to deal with a long-term employee [do you realize how much long-term company information you were losing? No.], they were more right than they knew. It was best for me. <BR/><BR/>I've watched from outside how MS had started laying off low-level employees (NEVER a manager, of course!), reducing/eliminating "perks" like medical benefits, and have seen the rise of IM-complaining, something I never saw while I was there, and that I don't see at my current employer.<BR/><BR/>There are lots of choices for you, but your choices are significantly reduced at MS. You can stay and continue in the current style and direction of management - because you know, you really KNOW, it cannot change - or you can start to send our your resume and get a better job.<BR/><BR/>Believe me, there are lots of jobs out there. I left, and immediately started with my new employer. <BR/><BR/>I have a manager now who lets me work the hours I want. I work with people that are creative, funny, stressed - but LOVING their jobs - and at the end of the day, I don't have to feel ashamed at shipping O12 or Vista - and pretending that OpenSource isn't a huge threat.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7555958.post-1127684319303654042005-09-25T14:38:00.000-07:002005-09-25T14:38:00.000-07:00"True. But a lot of investors will be scared off t..."True. But a lot of investors will be scared off the article. The stock most likely will fall. And then im buying call options. Hope I'm not sinking my money :-)"<BR/><BR/>MSFT, like every other large-cap stock, is moved by institutions not the retail investor. Institutions have smart analysts who are no doubt aware of how screwed up MSFT's development is. Let's face it, who isn't aware of that? Net net, the stock may continue down but the likely catalysts will be Friday's decision not to raise the dividend (which institutions and most regular investors will hate), MSFT's truly brutal chart, and of course ongoing concerns about rev/earnings growth. That said, it's way oversold. So expect a bounce soon before the trend resumes...<BR/><BR/>Re the Calls, make them 07 or later. Ballmer et al have basically fucked 06 now - along with 05, 04, 03...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7555958.post-1127681809687318342005-09-25T13:56:00.000-07:002005-09-25T13:56:00.000-07:00>>+ Earning a salary that will allow me to buy a N...>>+ Earning a salary that will allow me to buy a NEW house in a nice neighborhood.<BR/><BR/>>>If you are going to cash it - OK. If you are talking about a standard mortgage, anybody can do that. That's nothing special.<BR/><BR/>Unless you're in Hotmail in Mountain View. No google badge, no house.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7555958.post-1127680902345181162005-09-25T13:41:00.000-07:002005-09-25T13:41:00.000-07:00Every single brand new project started after 2000 ...Every single brand new project started after 2000 is not profitable. As somebody mentioned - the only divisions that are profitable now are the ones that were profitable in 1996. That's what is this blog about. Expenses against profit. Simple. Even for company with 60b in cash.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7555958.post-1127679728660691332005-09-25T13:22:00.000-07:002005-09-25T13:22:00.000-07:00+ Earning a salary that will allow me to buy a NEW...<I>+ Earning a salary that will allow me to buy a NEW house in a nice neighborhood.</I><BR/><BR/>If you are going to cash it - OK. If you are talking about a standard mortgage, anybody can do that. That's nothing special.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7555958.post-1127679375379659722005-09-25T13:16:00.000-07:002005-09-25T13:16:00.000-07:00I work as a software engineer at a big financial c...I work as a software engineer at a big financial company and can assure everybody that there are companies (maybe so known) which have benefits and salaries much better then MS or Google. <BR/>And I don't need to report to clueless mng and I'm learning stuff which will help me to move to the next level of my career.<BR/>I never wanted to become 45-years old developer sitting somewhere and still hacking stuff in somke programming language. When I was 25, we got a developer guy to our team who was 44 we had a lot of fun - for us, it meant like he was a loser because who wanted to code in his/her 44 and higher. And obviously not every developer at MS can become mgt.<BR/><BR/><I>+ Earning a salary that will allow me to buy a NEW house in a nice neighborhood.</I><BR/><BR/>If you are going to cash it - OK. If you are talking about a standard mortgage, anybody can do that. That's nothing special.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7555958.post-1127677823213356162005-09-25T12:50:00.000-07:002005-09-25T12:50:00.000-07:00If this is how things are at Goole then certainly ...If this is how things are at Goole then certainly I count my blesings for being at MS :-)<BR/><BR/>However, I suspect that just like MS, the culture varies from team to team.<BR/><BR/>Someone posted this link a few posts up: http://www.google-watch.org/bigbro.html<BR/><BR/>What seems shocking is Google's total lack of concern for anything! They just seem to think they are above everyone else... I know I know...starting to sound like someone else we know...but they are just one level above us in evilness -)<BR/><BR/>I hope we kick their assAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7555958.post-1127677394831735402005-09-25T12:43:00.000-07:002005-09-25T12:43:00.000-07:00My buddy joined Google and says it's work env is p...My buddy joined Google and says it's work env is pretty obnoxious. His team mates are snobbish towards him - a new commer - and since most are pretty young - they have some form of hatred towards anyone over 40. The most problematic thing, according to this guy - a smart guy since he became an engnn. in google in the first place - is that they use linux in their dev machines making your productivity go down the drain unless you are the kernel hacker type who love to achieve and overcome challenges while doing simple things.<BR/><BR/>While free lunches are good, his team mates being the snobbish unsocial type, never go as a group - something I really like about MS, where large groups head to lunch together. <BR/><BR/>Finally he says that for the first 2 weeks, he had barely any idea of who the manager is or what he is supposed to do since there is an extreme lack of direction. Maybe this will be heaven for the really creative folks who have awesome- yet feasible ideas, but for the avg. person like me, I am more comfortable in having my 1:1 with my mgr and the skip levels with the mgr's mgr where I know exactly who is who, how to escalate things, and what I am expected to do or achieve.<BR/><BR/>Finally, the buddy of mine apparently got assigned job in an area he totally hates. He has no idea whose decision it was to assign him into that kind of a project since he has no experience while he cannot pursue his real areas of interests in Comp Sci. <BR/><BR/>Now he basically hates his work life with:<BR/><BR/>+ No manager or mentor to take his issues upto during a 1:1<BR/><BR/>+ Snobbish Cliquish group members who try to leave him out.<BR/><BR/>+ Having to work in an area where he has no interest using primitive tools while not getting the oppurtunity to work in an area where his interests are and where he had gained much of his experience<BR/><BR/>+ Earning a salary that his only 1 grand higher (annually) than mine BUT in Bay Area where house prices are at all time highs (and almost twice that of Seattle/East Side area if he wants to live in a good neighborhood)<BR/><BR/>+ Stock options that he is worried won't get him much since the price at which he got offered was about 310 making the potential to rise much higher actually much lower.<BR/><BR/>+ Reading a constant stream of articles where Google is coming out with innovations that are bringing back no new revenue resources making them even more dependant on advertisement which Microsoft and Yahoo are actively pursuing too.<BR/><BR/>Compared to his situation at Google, I am at Microsoft where:<BR/><BR/>+ I have an awesome manager who interviewed me and gave me a clear picture of the kind of work I will be doing. He is also quite technically sound and can answer my questions.<BR/><BR/>+ My group goes out to lunch everyday - a nice social break that I enjoy<BR/><BR/>+ I am working in an area that interests me with tools I know how to use and which have plenty of documentation.<BR/><BR/>+ Earning a salary that will allow me to buy a NEW house in a nice neighborhood.<BR/><BR/>+ Stock awards which have much higher chances of rising higher than becoming worthless like options at a dizzy sky-high price.<BR/><BR/>+ Reading articles about a pipeline full of cool products which look pretty promising. I personally think having cool features in Excel or Powerpoint will help someone more than Mapping the Moon :)<BR/><BR/>So I will leave it to you to decide who is happier ;)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7555958.post-1127675228711913712005-09-25T12:07:00.000-07:002005-09-25T12:07:00.000-07:00True. But a lot of investors will be scared off th...True. But a lot of investors will be scared off the article. The stock most likely will fall. And then im buying call options. Hope I'm not sinking my money :-)<BR/><BR/>In any case, one WSJ article means absolutely nothing in long term. Although it is indicative of the problems and management's utter state of denial!<BR/><BR/>The stock most probably may move up next year but taking the long term view .. MS is destined to be a blue chip stock (if it is lucky!)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7555958.post-1127675116244909262005-09-25T12:05:00.000-07:002005-09-25T12:05:00.000-07:00Looks like the pessimistic folks have their brethe...Looks like the pessimistic folks have their bretherns in Google too - <A>http://www.google-watch.org/bigbro.html</A>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7555958.post-1127674951328477602005-09-25T12:02:00.000-07:002005-09-25T12:02:00.000-07:00Whoever said wait for tomorrow for the share to fa...Whoever said wait for tomorrow for the share to fall is totally underestimating the ability of the analysts. They often have a clearer picture of where the company is going than the average IC. They DONT have to wait for a WSJ article to open up their eyes :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7555958.post-1127674140526773052005-09-25T11:49:00.000-07:002005-09-25T11:49:00.000-07:00When was the last time MSFT mgt made some strategi...<I> When was the last time MSFT mgt made some strategic move that was so smart and first that the entire market applauded?</I><BR/><BR/>That's a key element. Market (or street) hates MS. That's it. I'm outsider but working for a big corp. with a size of MS (and no, it's not IBM , HP or someting like that) who has been working with Windows since version 3.0 and 3.11 for Workgroups. Things are getting worse regarding our relation to MS products and after 10 years we are in a situation that we are looking for alternative ways how to impement our core products (we run Windows 2000 and Office 97 - there is no reason for us to upgrade to the current versions not to mention Vista and Office 12).<BR/>That's the result of years and years of arrogance, ignorance and fishy tactics - don't get me wrong but we are in 2005 and there are no more Netscape - like companies which are stupid enough to fight you on your Windows platform.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7555958.post-1127671777157053152005-09-25T11:09:00.000-07:002005-09-25T11:09:00.000-07:00Ditto on Eric Rudder -- hoping he's on the way out...Ditto on Eric Rudder -- hoping he's on the way out due to the sudden lack of directs...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7555958.post-1127670293920319812005-09-25T10:44:00.000-07:002005-09-25T10:44:00.000-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Zhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07217890319786972455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7555958.post-1127669925997926492005-09-25T10:38:00.000-07:002005-09-25T10:38:00.000-07:00Services- Sharon Boland. Spells team, TE'I'M. Talk...Services- Sharon Boland. Spells team, TE'I'M. Talk about poor OHI...BTW, why do we still have Services GM's?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7555958.post-1127669830887864352005-09-25T10:37:00.000-07:002005-09-25T10:37:00.000-07:00Brad ANDERSON could go back anytime. He did come t...Brad ANDERSON could go back anytime. He did come to infuse brain, vision, leadership blah blah blah. I ain't seen nothing yet...<BR/><BR/>Tomorrow, with the opening bell, a stock is gonna be be shorted as fast as ETS can count. Do you want to guess which stock I'm refering to? Let me clue you in, read the WSJ article on our company.<BR/><BR/>BillG&SteveB, spend some cash to cover for that eventuality!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com