tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7555958.post2401680070736526599..comments2024-03-18T12:52:48.117-07:00Comments on Mini-Microsoft: Microsoft's 2008 - What's Going Well?Who da'Punkhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18205453956191063442noreply@blogger.comBlogger112125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7555958.post-72532362960947954422008-01-31T12:50:00.000-08:002008-01-31T12:50:00.000-08:00>> The laptop came with Vista Business installed, ...>> The laptop came with Vista Business installed, and in the box with the laptop was an ad for Vista Ultimate.<BR/><BR/>> You probably got a laptop with an illegal copy of Vista (Business is not supposed to ship on OEM retail HW). Talk with piracy@microsoft.com.<BR/><BR/>Huh?? then Dell is in deep trouble... we've been buying boatloads of Vostros with OEM Vista Business (and using our downgrade rights to install XP Professional, BTW)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7555958.post-55716788732922965762008-01-20T14:27:00.000-08:002008-01-20T14:27:00.000-08:00I used to love coming to MiniMSFT and reading abou...<I>I used to love coming to MiniMSFT and reading about what was going on at the company. Now it seems that all I see is bitching about product quality and petty debates about our products (or competitors) not relevant to the culture change that Mini has been advocating. I'll unsubscribe now and check back when Mini and commenters get back on the core agenda.</I><BR/><BR/>Amen!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7555958.post-55081615146422393852008-01-18T18:06:00.000-08:002008-01-18T18:06:00.000-08:00"What's going well? I'm excited about several thin..."What's going well? I'm excited about several things:<BR/><BR/>1.) Vista SP1 is getting very close now and looks great. I wish we had shipped this level of quality with Vista RTM, but at least we're getting it right now. "<BR/><BR/>Well, me, I'm excited that "upgrading" back to XP solved my Vista problems :-) You don't really appreciate XP until you ran Vista. <BR/><BR/>Vista SP1 is the proverbial lipstick on the pig. After SP2 or SP29, it'll still be the half-baked get-it-out-of-the-door-asap piece of ill-conceived, ill-executed and ill-tested piece of mediocreware that a bunch of ball-less PM's put together and foisted on the unsuspecting buying public. <BR/><BR/>Ex MS tester here (yep, worked on Vista too: not proud of it).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7555958.post-79316661166604132332008-01-14T22:55:00.000-08:002008-01-14T22:55:00.000-08:00J Allard and the Xbox org he created are notorious...<I>J Allard and the Xbox org he created are notorious for under-levelling, under-promoting, and giving crappy bonuses (perhaps appropriate for an org that has lost so much money) relative to the rest of Microsoft. Most lvl 61 ICs in Xbox would be lvl 64+ elsewhere inside Microsoft.</I><BR/><BR/>As someone fairly senior who recently joined Xbox from DevDiv with insight into how we level the disciplines, I would respectfully disagree -- although I was told by almost everyone who interviewed me the exact same thing that you state above.<BR/><BR/>I think some folks in Xbox need to spend some time working on the asp.net team (for example) just to get a better view about where they actually fall on the dev, pm and test totem pole. :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7555958.post-86002337738683829922008-01-14T08:41:00.000-08:002008-01-14T08:41:00.000-08:00The interesting thing is that these companies are ...<I>The interesting thing is that these companies are not offering more money or a better jobs. People are leaving because the organization has changed in the wrong direction.</I><BR/><BR/>This isn't quite true.<BR/><BR/>I'm a senior engineer who left Xbox for another local company and doubled my salary (not an exaggeration). Several Xbox friends did likewise, and one even returned to Microsoft a year later -- the fastest way to a promotion and raise.<BR/><BR/>J Allard and the Xbox org he created are notorious for under-levelling, under-promoting, and giving crappy bonuses (perhaps appropriate for an org that has lost so much money) relative to the rest of Microsoft. Most lvl 61 ICs in Xbox would be lvl 64+ elsewhere inside Microsoft.<BR/><BR/>Also, it's not that Xbox management has changed direction, as that they're failing to supply any direction at all. There was an awesome push to launch the 360 with sometimes flawed but overall solid goals, and then ... crickets. J left for Zune and all the wind went out of the sails. Xbox Live Video Marketplace and the HD-DVD peripheral had a smaller (totally fubar'd) push and then... more crickets. Xbox hasn't done anything worth mentioning since then, except recognize that the 360 hardware had numerous design and manufacturing flaws and struggle to keep Xbox Live working during the holidays.<BR/><BR/>Meanwhile, look at all the lessons that could be learned from Sony's XMB UI (becoming pervasive across its product line) or Nintendo's Wii (Miis and channels are simple but brilliant) or the many other things happening in the consumer device and online spaces!! The Xbox org should be firing on all cylinders, and instead they're idle. Talented engineers don't idle well.<BR/><BR/>A few years ago, the Xbox org was known as the place senior talent fled to -- a last refuge from the idiocy taking over the rest of Microsoft. 10 years Microsoft experience was the <B>median</B> (often with even more prior experience outside Microsoft). The org had strong competitive focus, internal goals, drive, and oozed talent. The new Xbox org, like the new Microsoft ... not so much. As Xbox loses its mojo, that senior talent is finally fleeing the ship entirely.<BR/><BR/>And good riddance. Microsoft will get smaller only when there aren't great teams to work with or great products to work on. Hopefully in a few years, everyone reading this blog will get pink slips as Microsoft finally slims down.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7555958.post-23964959401198021782008-01-13T13:11:00.000-08:002008-01-13T13:11:00.000-08:00It's weird that Mini and all the commenters here h...<I>It's weird that Mini and all the commenters here have failed to notice the mass exodus from the Xbox team in 2007. By my count, more than 15% of the product team (dev/PM/test) have left Microsoft for Apple, Sony, Google, Yahoo, MySpace, Amazon, and various other companies (including several startups, local and in the Valley).</I><BR/><BR/>There have been a lot of GOOD people leaving Xbox and joining other teams inside of E&D. We have also lost some very talented people to other companies. The interesting thing is that these companies are not offering more money or a better jobs. People are leaving because the organization has changed in the wrong direction. We have management who does not create excitement, nor a vision people can believe in. It's a bunch of outsiders, and morons telling the org how 'super passionate' they are, not showing the org how 'super passionate' they are.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7555958.post-86846948314851659972008-01-12T11:32:00.000-08:002008-01-12T11:32:00.000-08:00Re: app model (I'm the second Windows dev)I agree ...Re: app model (I'm the second Windows dev)<BR/><BR/>I agree that there will be a time when aggressive app model changes are required to keep Windows competitive. It's a hard business call. Is that time now? Every time AAPL changes their architecture and breaks or slows all their old apps, it seems they cut their market share by half.<BR/><BR/>Will virtualization help ease the transition? Yup, it could. But lots of Windows apps are valuable because they integrate with the system and each other. This is a challenge with a virtualization-based compat plan.<BR/><BR/>I believe Gates once said that MS folks' natural tendency was to value new ways to make a little money more than boring old ways to make metric shitloads of money (I'm paraphrasing :). A premature or ill-thought out abandoning of app-compat could cost market share for Windows. It's a fine line and a hard business challenge to decide when the time and technology is right. I hope we have the right people making a roadmap for this (don't have visibility into that and wouldn't share here if I did). <BR/><BR/>After all: If the next version of Windows didn't run old apps very well (or at all), why buy Windows instead of a Mac? Look at the (justified IMO) outrage at device compat in Vista...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7555958.post-89023384064968233892008-01-10T15:36:00.000-08:002008-01-10T15:36:00.000-08:00A great strength of Windows is our huge library of...<I>A great strength of Windows is our huge library of compatible applications (especially in the corporate / LoB space), so the Windows app model will evolve more slowly than we'd like. For a long time, even after a new app model with all these things was introduced, you'd still see older apps not written the new way suffer these problems.</I><BR/><BR/>[Original app model poster writing:]<BR/><BR/>I don't believe that - this would have been true a generation ago, but these days, we own very reliable virtualization technology. We can afford to radically change what it means to be an application installed on top of the os - and run every single legacy app that doesn't conform in its own virtual session.<BR/><BR/>(Yes, that's not necessarily the best choice for Terminal Servers, but for the desktop, it's perfect)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7555958.post-47382878239410434402008-01-10T09:37:00.000-08:002008-01-10T09:37:00.000-08:00I used to love coming to MiniMSFT and reading abou...I used to love coming to MiniMSFT and reading about what was going on at the company. Now it seems that all I see is bitching about product quality and petty debates about our products (or competitors) not relevant to the culture change that Mini has been advocating. I'll unsubscribe now and check back when Mini and commenters get back on the core agenda.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7555958.post-73223904751192284282008-01-10T06:05:00.000-08:002008-01-10T06:05:00.000-08:00A great strength of Windows is our huge library of...<I>A great strength of Windows is our huge library of compatible applications (especially in the corporate / LoB space), so the Windows app model will evolve more slowly than we'd like.</I><BR/><BR/>Why don't you just go ahead and say the app model will never evolve?<BR/><BR/>MSFT is terrified of pissing off its developers, so it won't cut the lazy ones off at the knees by making the aggressive moves that need to be made to modernize Windows. Sure, you've got that great legacy library of apps, but that's a sword that cuts both ways.<BR/><BR/>This is in stark contrast to AAPL: they may upset third-party developers once in a while, but in doing so they make the agile moves they need to make to modernize their OS. End users (you know, <I>customers</I>), as a result, are thankful... and that's just one reason why you'll often hear someone say they love their Mac, but almost never will you hear someone say they love their Windows PC.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7555958.post-34408107578134749102008-01-09T21:14:00.000-08:002008-01-09T21:14:00.000-08:00I work in Windows too, and I'll second those comme...I work in Windows too, and I'll second those comments. Our management is much improved and that should show in product quality.<BR/><BR/>I also think we're starting to see some desirable hardware out there, such as the Dell XPS One all in one, and the Dell XPSM1330 and M1530 notebooks. With all the bashing OEMs are taking on this thread (rightfully so for crapware), Kudos to the OEMs focusing on good hardware design.<BR/><BR/>Now it's up to Windows to match this slick hardware with a great Windows 7. I'm optimistic. (I think folks make too much of Apple's very real advantage in sexy hardware. Not that I disagree, I just think that even with equal hardware sexiness Windows still has a ways to go in sw/hw integration, great apps that take advantage of new hardware (like webcams), and sw polish).<BR/><BR/>For the record I also completely agree that Windows needs a more robust app model that puts the operating system in charge of dependencies, separates app state from system state, makes applications plugging into system extension points more robust, and uninstalls more reliable. To be realistic though, it's not going to happen overnight. A great strength of Windows is our huge library of compatible applications (especially in the corporate / LoB space), so the Windows app model will evolve more slowly than we'd like. For a long time, even after a new app model with all these things was introduced, you'd still see older apps not written the new way suffer these problems.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7555958.post-29135191833805339352008-01-09T16:49:00.000-08:002008-01-09T16:49:00.000-08:00Caveat: I work in Windows2.) OEM's and hardware ve...<I>Caveat: I work in Windows<BR/><BR/>2.) OEM's and hardware vendors are starting to make major progress addressing the crashing bugs in their Vista drivers so the user experience is definitely improving across the board.<BR/></I><BR/><BR/>Caveat: I work in Windows too.<BR/><BR/>It's been a YEAR. I finally bit the bullet yesterday and installed Vista on my Dad's computer, and half of his peripherals barfed due to driver incompatibilities, including his brand-new Canon printer.<BR/><BR/>It's a humiliating defeat for our company, and the fact that a year later OEMs are just fixing the serious problems is nothing to be happy or positive about. We failed, fixing it now is not anything to crow about, and we really need to figure out how to make sure it doesn't ever happen again.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7555958.post-72429919003482674612008-01-09T14:25:00.000-08:002008-01-09T14:25:00.000-08:00OEM's and hardware vendors are starting to make ma...<I>OEM's and hardware vendors are starting to make major progress addressing the crashing bugs in their Vista drivers so the user experience is definitely improving across the board.</I><BR/><BR/>Vista "shipped" over a year ago (2006), with general availability LAST January. And now it is nearly up to what I'd call an alpha-level quality. I don't know what Job One is these days, but it sure ain't Quality.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7555958.post-53748759497621312012008-01-08T22:51:00.000-08:002008-01-08T22:51:00.000-08:00Caveat: I work in WindowsWhat's going well? I'm e...Caveat: I work in Windows<BR/><BR/>What's going well? I'm excited about several things:<BR/><BR/>1.) Vista SP1 is getting very close now and looks great. I wish we had shipped this level of quality with Vista RTM, but at least we're getting it right now. <BR/><BR/>2.) OEM's and hardware vendors are starting to make major progress addressing the crashing bugs in their Vista drivers so the user experience is definitely improving across the board.<BR/><BR/>3.) We finished our first Win7 milestone on time and the end build is surprisingly high quality for something this early on. Things are just way better now than they were under the previous administration.<BR/><BR/>To me these are all promising signs and I'm back to being excited to get up and come to work in the morning.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7555958.post-8928591153388834212008-01-08T22:46:00.000-08:002008-01-08T22:46:00.000-08:00Microsoft can easily get complete control over the...Microsoft can easily get complete control over the quality and presentation of PC's the same way Apple does. Just start building them.<BR/><BR/>However, the profit margins aren't what Microsoft may be historically accustomed to.<BR/><BR/>Can't have your cake and eat it too.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7555958.post-4237677090797155082008-01-08T22:35:00.000-08:002008-01-08T22:35:00.000-08:00Interesting storyLisa brummel buys Seattle Stormht...Interesting story<BR/>Lisa brummel buys Seattle Storm<BR/><BR/>http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/storm/2004113091_stormsold08.htmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7555958.post-65072642099577995742008-01-08T11:09:00.000-08:002008-01-08T11:09:00.000-08:00So quit blaming others for our sucky experience. I...<I>So quit blaming others for our sucky experience. I really, really, really wish there were a credible OS competitor out there to get you guys back on your toes...</I><BR/><BR/>Well, as I've said, this is such a sticky problem because it's such a wierd situation. MSFT is a supplier to OEMs. In any other market, the brand name in question would be Dell, or HP, or Linovo, etc. The ultimate manufacturer who put the unit together and made the final decisions about what the customer got out of the box. In the Wacky Windows Ecosystem though, the brand name is Windows, and MSFT has - due to both market and legal forces - limited control over what the OEMs do.<BR/><BR/>Now, limited doesn't mean zero, but is does mean limited, as in less that total. Apple has total control over what goes into Macs. Macs have a far better brand these days than Windows, and its directly related to that fact.<BR/><BR/>That doesn't mean the people saying MSFT doesn't get, or care, about the end users are wrong. Both sides in this argument are right. Because MSFT has less ability to control the OOBE experience than Apple, MSFT is not as good at it. It isn't considered as important, isn't given as much attention, and what attention it does get is less effective anyway.<BR/><BR/>MSFT can't solve this problem by simply saying "we're going to take this seriously." Controlling the Windows brand and Windows experience to the degree Apple does with Mac is simply, fundamentally, incompatible with MSFT's business model. <BR/><BR/>MSFT needs to either find a way to live with this and be a good supplier to others who control the brand, or it needs to stop being a supplier and start being an OEM (or, like Panasonic in plasma screens, be both).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7555958.post-55932397747001606492008-01-08T08:20:00.000-08:002008-01-08T08:20:00.000-08:00For all of the bashing Vista gets, it's obvious th...<I>For all of the bashing Vista gets, it's obvious that many people haven't taken the time to see what Vista actually does do better.</I><BR/><BR/>An untuned stock install of Vista brought my brand new, top of the line UMPC and its little 800MHz processor to its knees. XP, on the other hand, is quite snappy.<BR/><BR/>Whatever it is that Vista does better is lost in the shadow of the things it does wrong. I can only hope that Longhorn Server hasn't been screwed up as badly.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7555958.post-87060770613014491712008-01-07T22:31:00.000-08:002008-01-07T22:31:00.000-08:00Either way, the PC from a "brand mgmt" perspective...<I>Either way, the PC from a "brand mgmt" perspective should come with an OS reinstall disc - stop making excuses about this!!! </I><BR/><BR/>Agree 100%. It's the OEMs who decide what ships in the box, though. One real big one saves $.14 by not shipping install media with the machine, but will happily send you the media free of charge ($14 for FEDEX overnight to your house).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7555958.post-81591434212779849222008-01-07T22:27:00.000-08:002008-01-07T22:27:00.000-08:00The laptop came with Vista Business installed, and...<I>The laptop came with Vista Business installed, and in the box with the laptop was an ad for Vista Ultimate.<BR/></I><BR/><BR/>You probably got a laptop with an illegal copy of Vista (Business is not supposed to ship on OEM retail HW). Talk with piracy@microsoft.com.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7555958.post-82739104124487401842008-01-07T18:46:00.000-08:002008-01-07T18:46:00.000-08:00I've never used Macs. Do they ask this insane ques...<I>I've never used Macs. Do they ask this insane question too?</I><BR/><BR/>Of course not. There's no registry, so there's no system-level component checklist where the uninstaller doesn't understand why something is shared or required. The whole shared-library architecture is completely different on Macs. If you throw away something you may need later the Mac either understands what's going on and stop you, or leaves you alone. There's no "I think you're breaking your own or a third-party-vendor's rules here, although of course I don't understand this warning I am now giving you" error message.<BR/><BR/>It's just not a problem; All big-vendor application suites put stuff in smart places and then get rid of their own stuff when you run their custom uninstaller programs, which are very simple with no system overhead. The entire "System" folder (sans libraries) is off limits to everybody except Apple, which simplifies everything tremendously. Without the registry, EVERYTHING's simpler and easier.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7555958.post-43388289819461639602008-01-07T18:22:00.000-08:002008-01-07T18:22:00.000-08:00... right in the middle of an uninstall you get th...<I>... right in the middle of an uninstall you get that message that says "The following file is shared and may or may not be needed by other programs. Do you want to delete it?" <BR/><BR/>What the??? <BR/><BR/>I've never used Macs. Do they ask this insane question too?</I><BR/><BR/>No, but OS X doesn't have a package uninstall manager. Instead you just drag apps to the trash. While that's really simple, it does assume apps are self-contained and don't create data folders in the user's ~/Library/ folder. Most apps are well-behaved, some are not.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7555958.post-40768730012359888532008-01-07T12:56:00.000-08:002008-01-07T12:56:00.000-08:00I think my idea of simply allowing the user to con...I think my idea of simply allowing the user to control startup programs on startup is much less questionable legally and much more beneficial to OEMs than any alternative mentioned so far. They could still preinstall as much crapware as they wanted, there wouldn't be a legal battle to force them to ship a "clean" version of anything, and it certainly isn't a feature that automatically (and uncompetitively) removes software.<BR/><BR/>Semi-related: Ha, yeah, the shared DLL dialog in uninstallers is a gem. What's also great is when the software is so buggy that the uninstaller crashes halfway through, or when it leaves behind a bunch of files and regkeys. The OS should really be responsible for removing a program, although the design of Windows makes this a challenge.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7555958.post-66547735893082429482008-01-07T10:30:00.000-08:002008-01-07T10:30:00.000-08:00I've never used Macs. Do they ask this insane ques...<I>I've never used Macs. Do they ask this insane question too?</I><BR/><BR/>nope.<BR/>and the most cool thing is: you can just put your apps wherever you want.<BR/>and installling an app is most of the times just dragging the application to wherever you want.<BR/>deleting an app is just moving it to the trash.<BR/><BR/>most of the time, 'cause a lot of apps nowadays come with an installerAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7555958.post-86184736225111577332008-01-07T10:27:00.000-08:002008-01-07T10:27:00.000-08:00Yet another ("Charlie etc.") response from someone...Yet another ("Charlie etc.") response from someone at MS who is in a pout because the courts got involved and doesn't want to find another way.<BR/><BR/>Fine. Let the OEMs do what they have to do; sell ride-along space to Google et al.<BR/><BR/>If Windows made it easy, fast, and clean to uninstall anything, no problem - us doofuses (read, people who pay for the stuff) can just uninstall it and be grateful that someone else footed $20 of the PC's cost. But we all know that once anything gets on a Windows box, an uninstall never gets the box back to pre-install; as others have mentioned there's always cruft left over, reg fragmented, and so on.<BR/><BR/>So yeah, MS needs to make Windows better, cleaner, and more convenient in this and other regards. That has little to do with blaming OEMs or courts.<BR/><BR/>Moreover, you could work with OEMs from a "brand management" perspective and at least suggest enthusiastically that OEMs offer us doofuses the choice of PC+crapware for $1000, or PC pure for $1025. Either way, the PC from a "brand mgmt" perspective should come with an OS reinstall disc - stop making excuses about this!!! Windows is simply too fragile to assume it won't need to be reinstalled during a PC's lifetime, so make it easy! Macs come with a full OS disc. Generating a "crapware-riddled" disc for the $1000 PC or a "pure" disc for the $1025 PC is no big deal.<BR/><BR/>So quit blaming others for our sucky experience. I really, really, really wish there were a credible OS competitor out there to get you guys back on your toes...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com