Comments on Mini-Microsoft: Microsoft + Yahoo! = Microsoft - $44,600,000,000 ?...

a large business with established competition (an...

2008-02-09T00:18:00.000-08:00

a large business with established competition (and, just to throw another monkey wrench into the works) a highly heterogeneous customer base must balance customer "focus" with the need to meet lowest-common-denominator user requirements and ever-present competitive pressures from companies who will develop a feature that becomes a de facto must-ship standard.

You know, running your drivel through a verbiage expander really doesn't support your point. You claim that a large business has to think about the competition instead of the customers, and if you actually believe that, then you're part of the problem.

History is replete with examples of companies that lost their customer focus, and ended up either vanishing or getting far smaller. Most of those companies had people spouting blather just like yours around the time they peaked.

-jcr

we're still a growing company posting incredible p...

2008-02-09T00:12:00.000-08:00

we're still a growing company posting incredible profits

Profits which would be far higher, if Ballmer wasn't throwing billions down unprofitable ratholes for the sake of his ego. The man is the ultimate example of the Peter Principle, and his continued presence at MSFT is bad for your shareholders, your employees, and your customers alike. (Of course, it's great for me. personally. Between Ballmer and Alchin, MSFT's botching of Vista has made me a nice bit of cash through my AAPL shares: enough for me to be able to go and start a new business instead of having to keep working for someone else.)

we ARE a monopoly and you ARE in that chair and WE will do as WE please.

Keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better, while your smarter colleagues bail and go to work at Google.

IBM had that monopoly and lost it, just as you're doing now. IBM lost it, because it turned out that unless a monopoly is government-granted, customers do have the option of going elsewhere.

"I'm the OP who made the comment about you still being in school, btw -- your point-of-view demonstrates a lack of understanding between the unique pressures faced by small startups vs. large established businesses."

I've been in this industry since 1982, in companies ranging from three-man shops to the Fortune 100. I'll match my business experience against yours anytime, anywhere.

-jcr

...Heres a hint on WM and XB - a whole new generat...

2008-02-08T17:27:00.000-08:00

...Heres a hint on WM and XB - a whole new generation of kids dont reflexively DESPISE MSFT now b/c they view MSFT as XB. An EU telco is planning to use XB as THE set top box for its IPTV. If you're still clueless, you're helpless...
Man you sound so grandiose. FYI mysterious telco is BT and service is raging sucess (not):
...Sales of BT Vision have been somewhat sluggish according to critics, with BT signing up around 100,000 subscribers since launching in November 2006.....
By the way xbox is only one of the supported devices.
And now the punchline:
...On-demand films and sports content from the BT Vision service will be available via the Xbox games console from the middle of this year. Unlike the dedicated set-top box the Xbox will not be able to receive or record live TV....

Hint - found article on an EU broadcaster's website (bbc for ordinary people)

That fixation on Apple, Google, Sony, IBM, or whoe...

2008-02-08T12:47:00.000-08:00

That fixation on Apple, Google, Sony, IBM, or whoever else he decides is the enemy of the month is why Ballmer is hopelessly floundering around and wasting shareholders' money on failed ventures. Get him out of there, or you can count on MSFT staying on a slow decline.

And yet... and yet we're still a growing company posting incredible profits. MSFT being in "slow decline" is most certainly not a fact; indeed it's quite debatable.

Seriously, would you have been able to sell any copies of Vista to date, if you didn't have the monopoly leverage over the Dells and HPs of the world?

But we DO have the monopoly advantage, blanche. we ARE a monopoly and you ARE in that chair and WE will do as WE please.

Heh. couldn't resist.

In any case, this argument is at least partially a red herring because rightly or wrongly, our dominant position gives us enough rope to hang ourselves with. The salient point is that we have not yet hung ourselves and we continue to do quite well overall, and the jury of long-term performance has not returned a verdict on the wisdom of ballmer's "vision".

I'm the OP who made the comment about you still being in school, btw -- your point-of-view demonstrates a lack of understanding between the unique pressures faced by small startups vs. large established businesses. A small startup can afford to ignore competition and focus on the needs of a specific kind of customer, but a large business with established competition (and, just to throw another monkey wrench into the works) a highly heterogeneous customer base must balance customer "focus" with the need to meet lowest-common-denominator user requirements and ever-present competitive pressures from companies who will develop a feature that becomes a de facto must-ship standard.

It's a balancing act, get it?

Does any of the above mean Microsoft didn't drop the ball on quite a bit of customer-focus? No. Does that mean it's not simply a matter of "focusing on the customer" as you would like to believe? Absolutely.

You can pay me for the business 101 lesson after you've made a few bucks in the real world, btw. No rush. ;-)

De-cloaking here because of that crack that anoth...

2008-02-07T20:58:00.000-08:00

De-cloaking here because of that crack that another anonymous poster made, claiming that I must still be in school.

I've been in the industry for a very long time, I watched IBM lose their lead, and I'm watching Microsoft lose it right now. Success in business does not come from "beating" the competition, it comes from serving your customers.

You can scheme against Google all you want, and if you manage to do them some damage, you'll just get blind-sided by the next company with a new idea that serves your customers better.

That fixation on Apple, Google, Sony, IBM, or whoever else he decides is the enemy of the month is why Ballmer is hopelessly floundering around and wasting shareholders' money on failed ventures. Get him out of there, or you can count on MSFT staying on a slow decline.

Seriously, would you have been able to sell any copies of Vista to date, if you didn't have the monopoly leverage over the Dells and HPs of the world?

-jcr

"You're still in school, aren't you?"Guess again, ...

2008-02-07T17:52:00.000-08:00

"You're still in school, aren't you?"

Guess again, sunshine. I worked at Apple for three and a half years. I can tell you that we didn't sit around obsessing over whether MSFT was going to wise up in our lifetimes.

I keep telling you, focus on the customers, not the competition. Do you think that a customer-focused company would have dreamed up something like "windows genuine advantage"?

Someone said:Yeah, sure. That's why none of them g...

2008-02-07T10:14:00.000-08:00

Someone said:

Yeah, sure. That's why none of them go to Youtube or Myspace or Facebook or Flicker or any of those other sites. They just won't tolerate ads...not.

I can't speak on Facebook or Myspace, as I don't use either. However, I use YouTube frequently... on my Mac, on my iPhone and on my AppleTV.

I've not seen ads in the videos (unless the whole point is that the video is an ad... vintage, for example). I just pulled up the YouTube front page, and I see only three ads. Ordinarily, their presence wouldn't even register. They are almost invisible to me.

I suspect that most modern 'net users are the same way. Ad impressions on websites are glossed over so quickly they don't even register, and they most definitely are never clicked.

As I said, ask the next ten people you meet whether or not they've ever clicked on a web ad, and whether or not the presence of those ads even registers. (If the ad is animated or particularly annoying, it might be seen... however, those tend to just make users angry.

So, where's the money in 'net advertising again?

Competition is not the goal. Competition is incide...

2008-02-07T09:06:00.000-08:00

Competition is not the goal. Competition is incidental to creative work. Do you imagine that Google and Apple employees think about you clowns all day?

Of course they do, you asshat. Creativity in business is not divorced from fiscal and competitive pressures.

You're still in school, aren't you? Cuz school is the only place you can afford to be so totally out-of-touch with the real world.

Mini,Patronizer here. In the past (probably before...

2008-02-06T23:04:00.000-08:00

Mini,
Patronizer here. In the past (probably before your popularity surge ;-)) it's been possible to have meaningful "conversations" on this blog. Reading the

Its a stated fact by their founders that they want to "change the landscape" (ie - destroy MSFT)

You say that like it's a bad thing.

a part of me is wondering just how many softies are left posting here. Not that the occasional idiot(the term is not mine, Gestner used it to describe the employee who sent him an EMAIL reply to criticize his focus on competitors and encourage him to accept IBM's natural decline) is not fun but ... here it seems to have become the norm ....

Any chance we can switch the conversation to something less attractive for external posters? E.g. what would be a good way to retain good employees according to softies?

Just a thought.

Let me just mention something about Google apps. ...

2008-02-06T22:06:00.000-08:00

Let me just mention something about Google apps. I have a need for a 3D modeler for a vertical-market opportunity I'm working on, and after putting a few feelers out with the Autodesks and Catias of the world, I had a wonderful experience talking with the Googlers who work on SketchUp.

Since Google wants to cooperate with developers like us, and knows that the more open they are, the better for all parties, they are completely willing to hand me an SDK and full documentation of their file formats so that I can use SketchUp to generate my models and then use those within my apps.

If I have occasion to include mapping features in a future product, who do you think I'm going to call? I'll give you a hint: it's not going to be the company that wants to me to require all my users to be on Windows.

First, any moron can make money selling oil (excep...

2008-02-06T21:58:00.000-08:00

First, any moron can make money selling oil (except Dubya - but lets not go there).

Actually, the value of Citgo is rapidly declining under Chavez, so a moron can't necessarily make money selling oil.

Secondly, GWB wasn't selling oil, he was running an oil exploration venture, which is always a very risky proposition. Investors take that risk because the payout can be huge if they get a good hit.

Windows Mobile and the XBox (ALWAYS maligned on th...

2008-02-06T21:46:00.000-08:00

Windows Mobile and the XBox (ALWAYS maligned on this friggin blog) are two of the most important, and tentatively most successful, ventures MSFT has taken in the past 5 years or so.

The first one is in the process of being destroyed by the iPhone, and the second one only needs twenty more Halo-sized hits to go profitable.

Of course, compared to MSFT's other great ventures in the last five years, you might be right.

"So name me one Mega Merger or Aquisition of thi...

2008-02-06T21:42:00.000-08:00

"So name me one Mega Merger or Aquisition of this size that has not completely destroyed the sharholder value of the aquisition cost or equity of the aquired with 5 years?"

Disney/Pixar?

Oh, wait. That was only 7.4 billion.

Apple/NeXT?

No, that was only $400M.

HP/DEC?

Nope.

HP/Compaq?

Striking out here...

Well, what can I say? When you're right, you're right.

This looks like a very bad idea to me for MSFT. A...

2008-02-06T21:37:00.000-08:00

This looks like a very bad idea to me for MSFT. As an AAPL shareholder though, I'm all for anything that distracts your company from its core business.

Here are some hints to give one last shot to conve...

2008-02-06T08:35:00.000-08:00

Here are some hints to give one last shot to converting you folks who think this way into SOME kind of useful thinkers. Windows Mobile and the XBox (ALWAYS maligned on this friggin blog) are two of the most important, and tentatively most successful, ventures MSFT has taken in the past 5 years or so.

As a little game, take that statement as TRUE and instead of trying to dispute it, TRY to figure out WHY. Because it is true, you just dont get it and instead of puzzling through what you're missing, arogantly assume that all of the analysts and executives and engineers telling you these moves ARE good are morons.

Man, you must be an absolute joy to be around no matter how good a job you think you do of bottling that contempt...

Seriously, you really do need to dial down the arrogance. Even if you're correct and the two results you mention (IPTV and goodwill) did turn out to outweigh the investment in Xbox thus far, the fact is that both of those are very long-term payoffs and Robbie Bach promised back in 2001 that the Xbox experiment would reach profitability within five years. So they've utterly failed at that, even if they do manage to bellyflop into an eventual payback in the areas you mention (and sorry, but neither of those is the done deal you think either. Those same kids whose opinion of MS has been mellowed by the Xbox also think those "Hi, I'm a Mac" ads are hilarious. And IPTV has been chosen by "an" EU telco? Gee, I guess we might as well declare victory in the IPTV space. Hell, we couldn't even retain Comcast as a customer for our TV services, let alone expand our presence in that market into anything approaching success. And the US cable industry is a lot more friendly towards us than the EU will ever be).

You're counting a lot of unhatched chickens there, Colonel.

I read through a lot of the comments and I need to...

2008-02-05T09:28:00.000-08:00

I read through a lot of the comments and I need to make a rude statement or two.

Just to lay some groundwork, I think this merger is years too late. It would have been a good idea before we sunk big money into Live and before Google really exploded, but now it seems misguided.

That said, a LOT of the replies here are deeply clueless. I can only pray you arent MSFT employees.

Comments along the lines of "why the fixation on Google?" and "why does MSFT *need* to be in the ad space?" are almost shockingly ignorant. Seriously. If you actually believe either of those things, you need to really evaluate if you are still relevant as a thinker in this industry.

Google has amassed an enormous pile of cash incredibly quickly by dominating the internet. The internet, in an esoteric sense, may be "a network" and Im sure utopian socialists view it as some nebulous nirvana of freedom, but Google has *proven* that it was a commercial green field that could be conquered.

While people like you were sleeping cluelessly, they essentially took control of the internet. People use Google *reflexively* now. Google is a verb. EVERY person that uses Google to search for porn, or research or X-mas gifts puts money in their bank.

And they are JUST as arrogant as MSFT has always been. They have an infinite cash cow now with their massive dominance in search and ad space. They're an ad agency printing money.

And what do they want to do with that money? Its a stated fact by their founders that they want to "change the landscape" (ie - destroy MSFT)

Do the ignorant really believe Google just wants to be a search engine and ad server? HOW can you be so brainless?

I work with ENTERPRISE customers SERIOUSLY piloting Google apps in industries that would CHILL you if you WOKE UP AND PAID ATTENTION. If you are MSFTers, please quit now if you're, frankly, this stupid.

The predictions of "doom" for packaged software have been coming for "so long" because the early predicters were VISIONARY. Not because its imaginery.

Google is framing a world in which MSFT is irrelevant and, at best, a provider of a commodity OS that only exists due to inertia with an ever shrinking share and the morons that supposedly are MSFT deep thinkers feel the answer is "continue to invest in what we do right!!! build our CORE so we can be like Apple and give people what they want!!!"

Its INFURIATING to see such stupidity, honestly. Continuing to do what we do will ensure that MSFT is gone and Google wins.

Here are some hints to give one last shot to converting you folks who think this way into SOME kind of useful thinkers. Windows Mobile and the XBox (ALWAYS maligned on this friggin blog) are two of the most important, and tentatively most successful, ventures MSFT has taken in the past 5 years or so.

As a little game, take that statement as TRUE and instead of trying to dispute it, TRY to figure out WHY. Because it is true, you just dont get it and instead of puzzling through what you're missing, arogantly assume that all of the analysts and executives and engineers telling you these moves ARE good are morons.

Google is the same situation. Assume they ARE a big danger to MSFT. Now try to use your brain and think HOW they might be. Because they are, you just dont get it.

SO Y! merger? No. THis should have been a headline from 2001. But Google compete? HELL yes unless you dont plan to have MSFT in your future.

Heres a hint on WM and XB - a whole new generation of kids dont reflexively DESPISE MSFT now b/c they view MSFT as XB. An EU telco is planning to use XB as THE set top box for its IPTV. If you're still clueless, you're helpless

on WM, APPLE (the company all of you worship) made a phone, Google (in a rare ME TOO) has been floating "we'll make one too!", WM has turned HTC into a POWERHOUSE and is now seriously on carrier radar. Enterprise architects say every day that "blackberry works great, but we're interested in WM as an APPLICATION PLATFORM". GET IT YET????

Sorry guys, but this is one merger that I do not w...

2008-02-04T09:52:00.000-08:00

Sorry guys, but this is one merger that I do not want to see go through - I'd like to see Yahoo! be independent - at least of Microsoft. Might be okay if it were Google, but not Microsoft.

I actually spit my morning coffee out when I read this -- bravo!

How on EARTH is it a good thing when the undisputed dominant provider of a service -- in this case, Google -- gobbles-up one of the only other major players? Google would likely face much more regulatory difficulty if it tried to acquire Yahoo because the resulting lock on the market would be truly scary.

It's totally legit to say that Microsoft buying Yahoo creeps you out. It's asinine to say that Google buying Yahoo would be preferable.

Sorry guys, but this is one merger that I do not w...

2008-02-04T05:20:00.000-08:00

Sorry guys, but this is one merger that I do not want to see go through - I'd like to see Yahoo! be independent - at least of Microsoft. Might be okay if it were Google, but not Microsoft.

Regarding all the employee whining and bitching: T...

2008-02-04T00:08:00.000-08:00

Regarding all the employee whining and bitching: This is what happens when our leadership decided some time ago that it had no interest in increasing shareholder value. 7 years and we're still waiting. Maybe they forgot but we're all shareholders too. It's kind of tough for people to accept lower raises and a completely flat stock when most of the hi-tech people around us have done much better. Yet somehow our leaders continued to get filthy rich or much richer than they already were during this period. It appears extremely out of proportion to me.

Maybe they should take a note out of John Chambers book. There's one CEO who could walk circles around Ballmer.

Is buying Yahoo the last straw MS is drawing in fi...

2008-02-03T17:29:00.000-08:00

Is buying Yahoo the last straw MS is drawing in fight to become a "meaningful" competitor in the online advertising market (or Steve wanting to kill f%^*#@ Google)?

If for some reason, as recent news suggests, Yahoo partners with Google instead of being purchased by MS, will MS drop it's effort in the online advertising market? I mean MS is loosing money, how long will they be willing to do that?

I can see Yahoo starting to try milking MS now since they do have options, and one particular one very bad for MS - partnership with Google by outsourcing their search to them.

Because if Microsoft and its defenders had been ri...

2008-02-03T16:52:00.000-08:00

Because if Microsoft and its defenders had been right, it would have become #1 on its own, and would not have needed to buy Yahoo.

Rather simplistic. There's usually more than one way to win. As other posters have pointed out Microsoft has won on the back of acquistions before YHOO.

This bid for Yahoo is Microsoft's admission that t...

2008-02-03T15:59:00.000-08:00

This bid for Yahoo is Microsoft's admission that the critics were right all along. Keep that in mind when you are listening to similar agruments between Microsoft critics and defenders over other issues.

Why?

After the deal is closed, Yahoo will be Microsoft. MSFT will win.

Because if Microsoft and its defenders had been right, it would have become #1 on its own, and would not have needed to buy Yahoo.

"I try to bake the above 8 points into my daily wo...

2008-02-03T14:15:00.000-08:00

"I try to bake the above 8 points into my daily work life..."

Ooh, a GM or higher has decided to grace us with their presence? I doubt it.

If you are, you're pretty spineless to argue for the status quo. Step aside and let somebody who's willing to do the hard work of cleaning up take over.

Hey Einstein -- you're making my argument for me. What I'm saying is that thousands of people have posted rants about "the things management needs to do to fix Microsoft", which is about as effective as a political bumper sticker is in converting a Blue to a Red.

Change begins at home -- take the rants you dream about giving to BillG and actually LIVE them. Don't let clueless management dictate how you work. I've worked in 3 divisions and have had 12 managers -- some great and some rancid -- and yet I've never felt as victimized as some of you seem to always feel... I've also build some damn cool stuff and consider myself an advocate for our customers.

And for the record, I'm not a GM... L64 individual contributor here, and someone who has never let Microsoft's problems seriously impact the way I build products.

To all the junior people who bemoan the state of the company: you have more control over your work life than you think, and if you can't see that then you're missing something crucial.

::I don't know who posted this but I have my doubt...

2008-02-03T14:01:00.000-08:00

::I don't know who posted this but I have my doubts that you're actually an employee. The Microsoft I used to work for treated me like dirt for wanting to be a worker-bee who focused on my own tiny little sphere of influence.

I am an employee, in a product group, and that product, is my domain. Its my responsibility to make it as fast, reliable, and with as many great features as possible. Its my responsiblity to be a salesperson, if I have engineering ideas that will make it faster, more reliable, and more features, than I have to sell the dev team, pm, cust proxies, etc. or STFU.

Or if I'm someone that sucks the life out of the company, (there's a couple here and there :P ) then I would wine about how things should be, bitch about management and why its their fault, hate the customers, and spend all my time on Mini Microsoft talking about how Ballmer is the root of all evil and the Yahoo deal is aweful.

My point was STFU, make your product better, and if there's something in your way, and you feel your stuck, you can get outside help on your issues. I did and I work at 99% my potential, and make hundreds of times more change than I did.

I made an application run thousands of times faster (30000 ms to 15 ms), I replaced over 2 million lines of code with 300, I got a huge team working on features again and made the paralized walk again. I restored customer confidence. I made the software quality extremely high. I made the team work together and put them on the right path.

I'm off to another team to do it again. My point is that if you are worried about Ballmer and Yahoo then you are worried about the wrong thing. If you do something about yourself, you can do anything.

I used to be like alot of people here, selfish, bitchy, complain about things I don't understand like I do understand them. Then I started practicing Buddhism, meditating, and learned compassion for others (customer, team, PM, dev, etc), I did all I could, I became a mini microsoft like Ballmer talked about at the company meeting, and Miracles happened.

My attitude changed, and the product became something incredible, not by smarts, but by attitude.

You want true happiness? then don't worry about Ballmer. Think about your immediate customers, your team, yourself, don't hate anyone, have compassion, wish them to be happy, and not suffer... learn that your selfishness leads to your suffering.

And as you flame my message, remember, that I and anyone else that understands the truth I stated here, flow past you like water, and good things happen.

Why do you want to change the company when you cannot even change yourselfs?

Quote:"In the last 5-10 years MS has spent all its...

2008-02-03T12:56:00.000-08:00

Quote:
"In the last 5-10 years MS has spent all its time on distractions (Zune, and XBOX anyone?) and look at the result (Vista anyone). Even BillG and other upper management is calling Vista "bloated" and they cannot wait for the next version. Ok, if Vista is the result of the distractions, what will happen when MS writes the $45 Billion check and has to integrate over 10,000 people."

Questions:

1. What is the sound that a huge increase in balance sheet "Goodwill" makes? Yahoo's market cap is about $26B IIR. What's the offer price again?

2. What does the back end of a train look like as it recedes into the distance? In other words, what choice did MS have, given the "state of the nation" quote inserted into the beginning of my comment?

So glad to see so much optimism amongst MSers.