tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7555958.post4176051506838520816..comments2024-03-18T12:52:48.117-07:00Comments on Mini-Microsoft: Achieving Senior Level 63 at MicrosoftWho da'Punkhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18205453956191063442noreply@blogger.comBlogger147125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7555958.post-73847611310833768292014-02-27T03:58:32.873-08:002014-02-27T03:58:32.873-08:00I think you should play some games while searching...I think you should play some games while searching for you L63 promotions. Here is a nice place to start :-)<br />http://guestgame.com/Seniorhttp://guestgame.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7555958.post-33374911837841255742011-04-07T23:29:35.937-07:002011-04-07T23:29:35.937-07:00I was let go from Microsoft recently. I've bee...I was let go from Microsoft recently. I've been a 62 for too long by Microsoft standards. I'm surprised it lasted as long as it did in some ways. Up or out as they say.<br /><br />I found a niche I was happy in. 6 years ago I developed what I have been supporting since. I knew it backwards and forwards, better than anyone else does now or ever will. I could make changes quickly and with quality. No one else was as good. My boss even made mistakes. My work affected hundreds of developers in our org. A mistake was a huge cost. I thought what I did was valuable but in the end, it wasn't.<br /><br />The Microsoft up or out policy is the prime directive. I haven't talked to anyone internally that has anything good to say about it. The general consensus is why get rid of someone who is happy doing their job and can do it better than anyone else. A past co-worker of mine had the same thing done to him and now there are two devs doing what he did by himself.<br /><br />I guess Microsoft has its reasons. There certainly doesn't seem to be any shortage of people wanting in. As long as that's the case, I doubt anything would change.<br /><br />The method that this is done is troubling also. You go along with a good boss/employee relationship then all of a sudden, it's like you killed his first born. Nothing you do is good, all you get is criticism. He won't answer your questions on what is going on or you get vague answers.<br /><br />All of this in most cases is probably directives from HR. I've been told HR looks for employees that have been at their level too long. Then they start pinging the manager on why and putting pressure on them to do something, move them up or out. Give the employee directives and start documenting when they fail so a case can be brought to get rid of them if it comes to that. I would get vague directives like you need to be the thought leader or you need to improve your system knowledge. My queries on any specific guidance would get no response or the response that you’re a 62 and you should be able to figure it out. Then I would get emails rating my abilities in these areas that I had no input into it and any replies rebutting it would go unanswered. In my co-workers case, they overloaded him with work and then documented anything that fell through the cracks until they had enough to get rid of him.<br /><br />I'm sure HR throttles managers when this is going on. The problem is you can't tell if you've done something to piss him off or if he's doing it because he has to. It makes a difference in your relationship. I got to point where I resented my manager so much I could barely talk to him. I might be still employed by Microsoft if I knew he wasn’t doing it willingly.<br /><br />One thing I would do different if I could do it again is to not advance levels any faster than I have to. No matter how good you are, you will peak at some point and Microsoft will get rid of you. If you want the longest Microsoft career possible, why advance any faster than you have to. This is obviously difficult to manage. How do you make sure you do a good job but not too good of a job.<br /><br />Also higher levels will tend to require you to do things you may not like. There are not a lot of options at that point. It’s difficult to transfer to a new position because at a high level, what group is going to take you on to a new position you have no experience in. It’s usually comes down to do it and be unhappy or leave. Or you wait until you get escorted out.<br /><br />I don’t know what the final outcome of my situation will be but I expect in the end, I will think it was for the better.<br /><br />Good luck to all in your Microsoft careers, but pay attention to the levels, CSPs and how stack rankings work. You're in competition with everyone else in your org in your CSP. Sort of like grading on a curve in school. You need to consider how you can compete with the pizza eating 25 year olds that don't have a life and work 80 hours a week. It's not easy. I know many that purposely work for Microsoft as contractors just for this reason.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7555958.post-59582293083586863342011-02-04T00:45:52.503-08:002011-02-04T00:45:52.503-08:00Being constantly re-orged is bad. Barring extraor...Being constantly re-orged is bad. Barring extraordindary circumstances each year you will get the "welcome to our group" evaluation.<br /><br />Don't forget the aunts and uncles. My promotion to 63 came not when I helped my group out of one of their many nightmares but when I helped an uncle.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7555958.post-14088107159752307302011-01-27T18:49:40.054-08:002011-01-27T18:49:40.054-08:00Anyone know how to handle constant Re-orgs. I'...Anyone know how to handle constant Re-orgs. I've been 3.5 years at 62 and re-orged every year in mobile.<br /><br />Any ideas on how to carry greats results of one role into another through a re-org. So far, I haven't been successful. No managers seems to want to talk to the previous managers for promo stuff and each wants at least 12 mos of time to think to observer.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7555958.post-74287836928371240322010-11-23T22:13:05.878-08:002010-11-23T22:13:05.878-08:00If you want to dig a bit more around job titles wh...If you want to dig a bit more around job titles which gives you an idea of someone’s level or the dispersion of a team, remember that the title you see in Outlook is not the real title, it’s just the address book title. To know the real title you have to use headtrax and look for the “Standard Title” of the position. This way you have a more clear understanding of the seniority of that particular position and if you search for a group manager you will see the seniority distribution. HTHAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7555958.post-38129305376323524442010-10-04T14:59:16.303-07:002010-10-04T14:59:16.303-07:00What is the average promotion velocity for non-tec...What is the average promotion velocity for non-technical fields? This is the first year I have spent more than 2 years at a level (L61) and still not gotten a promotion. My management tells me that this is normal and 2 years is "aggressive", but this is getting frustrating for me. For context, I have always been "exceeded" or "high achieved"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7555958.post-26168972904232170162010-07-30T01:20:28.190-07:002010-07-30T01:20:28.190-07:001. Will a L63 have direct reports and/or manage v-...1. Will a L63 have direct reports and/or manage v-? Is that a req. for L63?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7555958.post-34553538556073934402010-05-17T08:20:14.335-07:002010-05-17T08:20:14.335-07:00"Now that the Annual review is approaching&qu...<i>"Now that the Annual review is approaching"</i><br /><br /><br />You're probably too late already. If you were in the running your manager would have told you / asked for ammunition by now.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7555958.post-17429186389420744112010-05-15T21:45:39.598-07:002010-05-15T21:45:39.598-07:00Hi,
Now that the Annual review is approaching, I ...Hi,<br /><br />Now that the Annual review is approaching, I wanted to seek tips on justification putforth to the manager to move from L60-L61. I am going through some finanical hardships and is getting the level changed is the only way for a salary increase? Any tips will be greatly helpful.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7555958.post-2574251863523890052010-02-10T07:14:26.174-08:002010-02-10T07:14:26.174-08:00Rather nice site you've got here. Thanx for it...Rather nice site you've got here. Thanx for it. I like such themes and everything that is connected to them. I definitely want to read more soon.<br /><br />Sincerely yours<br /><a href="http://www.migliori-casino-on-line.com/" rel="nofollow">Steave Markson</a>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7555958.post-55340726063162263472010-02-06T13:19:52.672-08:002010-02-06T13:19:52.672-08:00I'm currently level 66 and started at level 59...I'm currently level 66 and started at level 59 (equivalent in old levels) 12 years ago. The first levels came quickly with some sticking around 64 and 65 (half my career).<br /><br />I have always taken on and fixed problem areas that no one else wants to take on. Some were also not very sexy/fun problem but they were all critical to ship. I have also always looked for those problems (opportunities). In the beginning, I volunteered for these tough areas that no one else wanted and over time, my brand became the fix it guy. The scope and situations have become more and more challenging over time. <br /><br />When I was an IC, it was tough technical problems or simply critical problems that no one else wanted. After I became a lead & manager, I was given a team in turmoil after a re-org and straightened that out. After that, I was given a team that was in trouble quality wise 6 months before shipping. After that, I was given a team that was dysfunctional and the most problematic area of the product - now its the area that customers rave about and the team is running smoothly.<br /><br />The bottom line is that takes (1) very hard work (2) you need to build your skills (3) personality to drive the solution in spite of the process and (4) demand excellence from others - including managing out those that will never deliver quality (some folks are net losses to the team).<br /><br />I always hear the whining from folks that get stuck at level 62/63 but when those tough challenges are out there, they don't volunteer and they certainly don't go looking for the biggest challenges. Most gravitate to safe work that's in their comfort zone or work they enjoy. <br /><br />Taking on the toughest hardest problems does line up well with something everyone has talked about on this post - that is - make your managers look good. When you take on the toughest problems that risk the product and make that problem go away, they are happy. <br /><br />If you go looking for those problems though, you better be prepared to deliver. I wasn't sure I was going to get out of a couple of those situations but after everyone of them, I was stronger and smarter.<br /><br />Take the challenge and go after tough problems. You will make your management look good and the levels will come.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7555958.post-48405770549589799432009-11-16T10:02:38.656-08:002009-11-16T10:02:38.656-08:00Does anyone know what the typical salary increase,...Does anyone know what the typical salary increase, measured in percentage, is for going from 62 to 63?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7555958.post-56384331300126690682009-08-20T17:29:55.459-07:002009-08-20T17:29:55.459-07:00All these comments apply generally to any matured ...All these comments apply generally to any matured company and life in general. Your boss is the way to your promotion no matter where, what and when. If you have your mnanager in your pocket, you cna achieve greate heights in life. You have to strive to get the KEY to the boss's heart and brain. Ultimately humans make decisions either by heart or brain. Doesn't matter 60 or 65, if you find the key to your boss, next level is in your pocket. My experience, I joined MSFT at 63 and in 3.5 years I am at 65.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7555958.post-747745954816554682009-01-04T11:42:00.000-08:002009-01-04T11:42:00.000-08:00In response to Kelly Calvert:Regarding..Also, it’s...In response to Kelly Calvert:<BR/><BR/>Regarding..<BR/><BR/>Also, it’s important to keep in mind that it is impossible to provide a perfect definition of any level. It’s a bit like the famous phrase about the definition of obscenity. That is, it’s hard to define, but “I know it when I see it”. The CSP’s are a good attempt to define each level, but anyone who is looking at the CSP’s and saying “I do that, and that, …, but I’m not getting promoted” is almost certainly missing the point.<BR/>---<BR/><BR/>I used to work in Devdiv, and I respect Kelly a lot. but I have to disagree with this statement.<BR/><BR/>While it is true that it is difficult for managers to say what *exactly* an employee should do to get to the next level, it *should not* be impossible to list what experiences/qualities/results will qualify him to be a *strong* candidate for promotion to the next level.<BR/><BR/>And this should not be that difficult - it is just a matter of syncing up with the peer leads, and dev manager, and discussing what their perception of an L63 is vs l62. This is something that should happen on an ongoing basis.<BR/><BR/>Unfortunately, it doesnt happen, and that is what frustrates a lot of people.<BR/><BR/>Saying that you dont know what exactly an L63 is, but will know one when you see him is a big cop-out. If you dont know what exactly an L63 is, how are you able to make promotion discussions in the review meetings?<BR/><BR/>Managers become so defensive when asked what we should be doing to advance. I dont know why this is the case. I think that the whole culture of the stack rank + fighting for scraps for their directs + a lack of visibility and input on what will justify a promotion is what scares of managers from engaging with their employees regarding career growth.<BR/><BR/>Note, that I am not saying that I want a guarantee one way or the other. I just want to grow, and I am aware that it does not translate to a promotion always. But it should definitely keep me up in the top of the class, and getting a nice review score + kudos + a job well done with results is a reward in itself (that I crave for more than the actual promotion).<BR/><BR/>I have given this suggestion to Lisa, but I have not seen any action so far.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7555958.post-69917726073650259782009-01-02T17:10:00.000-08:002009-01-02T17:10:00.000-08:00Your analysis is very true, specially the part abo...Your analysis is very true, specially the part about owning the room and be regarded as the domain expert. One of my reports and I had that conversation not that long ago, and I explained to him that at 62, he can take on any task I'm asking him to do. At 63, he has to be the one who tells me what the next thing for the product should be.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7555958.post-6500317632622911992009-01-01T10:34:00.000-08:002009-01-01T10:34:00.000-08:00jcr said... >Apple's about to ship Snow ...<I>jcr said...<BR/> >Apple's about to ship Snow Leopard with no new features. Think about why they're able to do that.<BR/><BR/>Anonymous said...<BR/> These two lines really serve to summarize the incoherent blithering that was jcr's post.</I><BR/><BR/>Whoa, really? So, focusing on the customer instead of the competition is "incoherent blithering?" Because, IMO, that is the jist of jcr's post. You'd do well to read it again:<BR/><BR/><I>Success in business comes from serving your customers, not about beating your competition. You don't get your money by snatching it out of Google or Apple's hands, you get it by convincing your customers to hand it to you.<BR/><BR/>Do you want to know why Vista is such an unmitigated disaster? It's because you were playing catch-up to Apple, and playing Machiavellian games with the media companies instead of working on the issues that your customers were complaining about.</I><BR/><BR/>When will MS learn this lesson?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7555958.post-63955046049462675492008-12-27T13:53:00.000-08:002008-12-27T13:53:00.000-08:00I've achieved level 65 in a field technical role a...I've achieved level 65 in a field technical role and it wasn't that hard. Keep your mouth shut most of the time (i.e. don't make enemies), change jobs about once every 3-4 years, and do your job reasonably well...for a decade.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7555958.post-10863172397869306522008-12-21T09:33:00.000-08:002008-12-21T09:33:00.000-08:00Is there much motivation to really fix Vista's per...Is there much motivation to really fix Vista's perception problems?<BR/><BR/>Machiavelli might note that intentionally leaving Vista's reputation in the toilet will make Windows 7 look all that much better when it comes out - allowing some of our VP's pride, ego's and bank balances to swell to truly epic proportions.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7555958.post-48518154859543314862008-12-20T15:06:00.000-08:002008-12-20T15:06:00.000-08:00>Apple's about to ship Snow Leopard with no...<I>>Apple's about to ship Snow Leopard with no new features. Think about why they're able to do that.</I><BR/><BR/>These two lines really serve to summarize the incoherent blithering that was jcr's post.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7555958.post-72874129541544087782008-12-20T11:02:00.000-08:002008-12-20T11:02:00.000-08:00mini,time to start a new blog: maybe around curre...mini,<BR/>time to start a new blog: maybe around current economy and msftAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7555958.post-50392226454533685182008-12-20T10:38:00.000-08:002008-12-20T10:38:00.000-08:00Asshole managers aren't unknown at Apple [...] The...<I>Asshole managers aren't unknown at Apple [...] The fact that you praise someone for "junk yard dog mode" shows me that Microsoft has a fundamentally broken corporate culture...</I><BR/><BR/>Thanks for a nice belly laugh to re-energize my morning. Maybe Steve Jobs' psychotic approach to managing by terror is not properly described in English as "junk yard dog mode" (<I>standing up for what needs to be done vs. mind-numbing consensus wallowing</I>). Apple should in no way be throwing stones at Microsoft in this regard.Who da'Punkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18205453956191063442noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7555958.post-32825675514421254922008-12-20T02:06:00.000-08:002008-12-20T02:06:00.000-08:00i've been hearing this.. you know when you are abo...i've been hearing this.. you know when you are about to cut a small feature and do balancing in your sprint/milestone... essentially this is happening at VP level. <BR/><BR/>given that the resource is static. you want to complete A and A requires 10 devs. VP has to find the 10 devs from some other less attractive project. Say B.<BR/><BR/>In a perfect case, B will have 10 devs to transfer to A but when that happen B will be left with 5 testers and 2 PMs. What to do?<BR/><BR/>The remaining is either <BR/>a) absorb into other org (say A)<BR/>b) if A doesn't need testers, then VP will instruct them to find another position in 6 weeks. This is so that they can convert those positions to other discipline.<BR/><BR/>i've seen this happening to at least 2 teams so far.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7555958.post-50743404970541005152008-12-20T01:09:00.000-08:002008-12-20T01:09:00.000-08:00Think of the guy in the other companyI don't like ...<I>Think of the guy in the other company</I><BR/><BR/>I don't like where this is going...<BR/><BR/><I>That is the guy to beat.</I><BR/><BR/>No, No, <B>NO!</B><BR/><BR/>Think of the <B>customer</B>, not the competition! That's why Microsoft is pissing away the monopoly that you inherited from IBM. IBM got their position by focusing on the customer. IBM pulled themselves out of their decline by focusing on their customers. Ask any old mainframer what it was like to be an IBM customer back in the day. There's a reason why they had the kind of brand loyalty that Microsoft can only dream of.<BR/><BR/>Success in business comes from <I>serving your customers</I>, not about beating your competition. You don't get your money by snatching it out of Google or Apple's hands, you get it by convincing your <I>customers</I> to hand it to you.<BR/><BR/>Do you want to know why Vista is such an unmitigated disaster? It's because you were playing catch-up to Apple, and playing Machiavellian games with the media companies instead of working on the <I>issues that your customers were complaining about.</I><BR/><BR/>Vista is still unreliable, unsecurable, and a massive pain in the ass to use on a daily basis. Its UI is fundamentally incoherent, showing probably the worst case of design-by-committee since the control room at Three Mile Island. Its performance is compromised by your pandering to the RIAA and MPAA. You're selling it in no less than <I>eight different SKUs,</I> (including the upgrades) and your marketing message is deliberately obfuscated to convince the customers to go for the most expensive one. <BR/><BR/>Apple's about to ship Snow Leopard with <I>no new features</I>. Think about why they're able to do that.<BR/><BR/>-jcrjcrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07013638886217607372noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7555958.post-32254795432707044612008-12-20T00:53:00.000-08:002008-12-20T00:53:00.000-08:00Mini,Asshole managers aren't unknown at Apple, but...Mini,<BR/><BR/>Asshole managers aren't unknown at Apple, but when they appear, it doesn't take long before the rest of the organization figures them out and isolates them. Eventually, their team will remove itself from his control through internal transfers to teams with better managers, and the asshole ends up getting canned in a re-org if he doesn't see the writing on the wall and use his Apple resume entry to jump to some other company.<BR/><BR/>The fact that you praise someone for "junk yard dog mode" shows me that Microsoft has a fundamentally broken corporate culture, and that you are part of the problem.<BR/><BR/>-jcrjcrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07013638886217607372noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7555958.post-83786050506558640592008-12-19T14:35:00.000-08:002008-12-19T14:35:00.000-08:00Vendors are also having it bad. The funding for ou...Vendors are also having it bad. The funding for our project stopped and our vendor team of 28 people have been asked to leave immediately. All of us have been asked to move to India by our parent company. My rent contract was renewed in September and I have to find another person or risk loosing a 1000 bucksAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com