Microsoft Annual Review 2011
It has become a tradition for folks to share their review numbers to help get a sense of what's happening and how your numbers stack up. This year we have a new challenge of working through an entirely new review system and (for engineering) a pay-raise for the levels most at risk of departing for greener pastures. I know folks on the edge of leaving who have been willing to hang on to see what happens.
What's a good format? How about something like the following, obfuscated as you wish:
- L# (promo'd?)
- Bucket (1+, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5)
- Merit % (/Promo %) / Engineering?
- Bonus $K
- Stock $K
- Optional comments about Division / Group, discipline, impression of review
If you like the review system, I'd really like to understand why (something better than, "whee, I got a 1+," please) and I'd encourage commenters to not slam the positive perspectives. I'm not too pleased with the new system at all because I feel very good engineers in my org are getting lower results because of a very strict curve. I'm probably breaking the rules in that if an excellent person got a 3 I'm having my folks be truthful in writing review feedback that, yes, they did an excellent job, just when it comes to the 3 realize that more people did even more excellent work and what it is they need to do to step it up (or, you know, start connecting recruiters with all of those competing 1s and 2s). Same thing for 4s who are doing a good job and not really having any performance problem. HR would prefer me to write the text of the review according to the verbiage of the ranking system, but screw that. I did that years ago when people got a trended 3.0 and I'm still scrubbing those dark spots of demoralizing compliance off my soul.
How do you feel, whether you're a manager writing reviews this year and comparing results to last year, or an IC trying to make sense of your compensation and recognition?
1,309 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 601 – 800 of 1309 Newer› Newest»... all the mid range folks are usually screwed unless you are on the right team at the right time.
Folks, it is not about Microsoft culture, it's human nature. Nothing will change if you go to Apple (don't know for sure), IBM, or Facebook. If you have worked for more than one company, you should understand this.
Sounds like you are just trying to rationalize staying at Microsoft to yourself. I have worked for several other companies and they have all been much better than Microsoft. (I quit years ago.) Products were designed intelligently, all the engineers had jobs to do and went heads-down and did them, raises and bonuses were distributed accordingly, etc. None of this nonsense you get at Microsoft, i.e., products being redesigned constantly, employees expected to run around like wild ferrets establishing dominance and territory, etc.
One last word, if you truly think the review process sticks, how do you determine who gets a raise or a promotion? no, there is nothing better out there.
How would you know? Microsoft reviews revolve around the idea of showering the superstar with riches--the employee who goes around collaborating with other groups when no collaboration is necessary, uses new technologies without engineering justification, "helps" with coworkers' features and bugs even though he isn't qualified, etc. Basically everything except DOING HIS DAMN JOB. How f'ed up is that? Where you get rewarded for everything but your job?
The expression of shock on managers face said it all and was delightful to me. Counter-offers came but I was done.
What's the typical counter offer at MS consist of... little more base, stock, maybe one time retention bonus?
How frequent is a promotion offered as part of a counter-offer?
I'm a long-time softee but have had a few external people contact me recently.
RIFs on the 7th? Is that for real :| ?
It wouldn't be embarrassing to have Partner Development Managers from Bing using Google+. That could easily be understood as market investigation, if not for their pathetic posts showing a mental age that results in an IQ of 50, what looks in line with their technical abilities.
Just read the link. Terse, maybe, but I didn't think he seemed dumb. I don't know the guy, so maybe he is, but I can't tell based on this alone.
Moreover, as far as I'm concerned the guy can use a competitor's social network all he wants. What kind of kool-aid drinker are you, if you're talking as if he should get fired for that? Hell, there are Facebook employees with Google+ accounts, so what's the big deal? The guy doesn't seem to be embarrassing the company and it's uncool for you to single him out like that.
"So, I am being offered a SDE II L62 position at MS, and they are offering me $124,000 base and $15,000 worth of stocks vesting over 5 years. They also mention that since I am already in Seattle area I will not get any signing bonus.
The above figures are after 1 round of negotiating.
So need some advice here: Do you guys think its a good offer?"
That's a great offer. Your offer is quite above the L62 average salary. It's usual for them to not pay for relocation if you're local. Can't remember when was the last time they offered someone a sign-on bonus.
But.. after reading everything here, you still want to work at Microsoft?
"If you are 4 or a 5, my suggestion is to start looking out, the axe is on its way..
Yes it is on its way, on Sept 7th to be exact. Massive RIF across the company.
"
Where did you pull that date out of? So Microsoft is now rif-ing 20% of their employees? Would love to see that. Would love to see 20% of the 3s get to 4s and 5s next year and get shown the door. And so on. Until we're left with nobody.
This is Bell Labs again. We're fucked. And this HR team is a bunch of fools. We should fire them first. What good does Microsoft HR do? Seriously! Let's start with the pig at the top.
Left MS in 2010 to do missionary work abroad. Was a dev...got A/10 in last review. Will HR prevent me from coming back?
If the review is scheduled after every one on the team and close to 15th what does it mean (good or bad). Any thoughts? I worked past couple of years really hard and I am expecting something good but, my manager is an ass IMO.
"If you are 4 or a 5, my suggestion is to start looking out, the axe is on its way..
Yes it is on its way, on Sept 7th to be exact. Massive RIF across the company."
Shut it asshat, there is no such RIF planned.
Ask yourself why you need to get your jollies by scaring people on the internet.
"L62
Promoted
Bucket 3
SDET
I m planning to move internally
would it be difficult to move? are managers discouraged to hire 3's?"
If you were promoted and got a 3 at the same time, that's a weird message... but the promotion should cancel any negative feelings about the 3 unless there were unusual circumstances that dragged you down. If you were promotoed at MYR and got a three, then it's all going to depend on your last review score, which I'd assume was high given the promotion.
As a general rule 1's are in demand, 2s are neutral and 3s aren't interesting. For the last few years, most GMs have been fighting over the top performers and sending strong messages to their teams to avoid average and below transfers.
It really didn't used to be like this in the old 1-5 system (where 5 was the best) -- 4.5, 4.0 and 3.5 all had a good chance of transferring internally based on the actual interview. 3.0 -- what is now a "4" -- always had an uphill battle, of course.
So, 40% of the company can transfer pretty easily now, and 60% are kind of SOL. Back in the day we allowed double the number of people to transfer based on actual merit and not a random numeric assignment.
Just another way that Ballmer has tanked the company over the last decade.
Someone asked about internal transers as a 3, which got me thinking ...
I'm an IC, not a hiring manager, so this is just me thinking out loud ... perhaps even being cynical.
I asked myself "why would someone take an internal transfer that is a 3"?
A couple of reasons popped to mind - someone in the org knows the candidate and thinks very highly of them. The candidate has a unique skill that is needed by the team. Both of these reasons make sense and it could be a good match.
Why else?
This is where I think it starts to get ugly for the candidate ...
The hiring manager is desparate. There is a reason the position has been open for 8 months - run away!
All of the 5s on the team have left the company. The hiring manager knows the review cycle is around the corner and needs candidates for the 4 and 5 buckets. A transfer as a 3 is a prime candidate.
There is the rare case where the hiring manager is looking for good, solid performers (i.e. Kims) to consistently deliver. I think these opportunities are few and far between (unless you know someone or have specific skills).
I'm sure I missed some valid reasons, but, it seems to me that transferring as a 3 should be limited to very select opportunities. Otherwise, you may end up as a 4 or 5.
What did I miss?
"There seems to be an awful lot of "I got screwed!" coming out around here and I've heard a fair bit of the same from ICs I know personally - while I'm sure a lot of Microsoft is mired in politics and bullshit and a lot of people probably did get scores that weren't quite "right", I can safely say that among people whose review scores have been shared with me, 9 out of every 10 who got a 4 or a 5 landed exactly where they probably should have.
The thing about this company and really this field in general is that it welcomes in a lot of arrogant, cocky types, even ones who are otherwise timid and socially awkward outside of their computers. The kinds who spent most of their college careers skipping classes and blowing off assignments and then acing finals anyway. Then they get to companies like Microsoft and fail to realize that they lack work ethic, communication skills, product vision, or really much else that adds unique value to the company. They can code/test until they're blue in the face and they possess some degree of technical depth; hand them a well-designed spec and they'll bang out a project in a week. Although most still lack concept mastery and just know how to write things "to spec", not how to write it "so it's good" or "so it's even better." There are a large number of older industry vets who picked up programming as a hobby and fall into generally the same category.
Problem is that doing this sort of thing should be considered just barely average at Microsoft - not exceptional work, not promotion-worthy, not 1 or 2 (Or even 3)-worthy. Average. Yet a disproportionate number of people who perform this way expect to see those review scores because they "met all their commitments" and their manager said all year they were doing a great job. Yeah, you probably did do a great job, but great job should be the baseline.
So many MS employees lose sight of this and then it creeps into management and managers manage accommodating this and recruiters recruit to this standard and what it gets us is a company full of mediocre performers churning out mediocre software and feeling an over-inflated sense of entitlement from it. From all the managers I've spoken to, the easiest part of calibration was figuring out the 1's (And the 2's, for the most part) - they're obvious because there's such a massive pool of mediocrity surrounding them that their talents shine."
Amen
There is no 9/7 RIF. Mini knows this and should have left it on the cutting room floor.
Good managers are opportunists. There are good 3,4, even 5 candidates out there. Buy low, sell high :) I like what I see knocking at the door (it's been a drought.)
Level 64 MCS Field
rating 1 (20 last year)
15% CBI
180% stock
4.8 merit
1.2% stock adjustment
Same score as last year but much lower award. Manager said this year they had no ability to adjust. They give the rating and system does the rest. Last year they had flexibility.
I'm a L65 and got a 4. No feedback until review time and I didn't expect it, but at my level I need to own part of it. Apparently we're still in the calibration with L67 dinosaurs, so if you're not a GPM a 4 is a 50:50 proposition.
Good news: I get to move, my manager and HR will support me. I'm excited.
Bad news: With seniors getting 150% bonus, next year many 65s will be worse off than 64s. A 64 with a 3 will out earn a 65 with a 4. Did no one do the math?
To the guy who got an offer for $124k + $15k in stock. As a former MSFT employee who left 5 years ago, I find the base pay pretty decent but the amount of stock and lack of a signing bonus are laughable. I was a 62 and the company that hired me away from MS offered $50k in stock vesting over 4 years + a signing bonus ($20k now and another 10 on my first anniversary. And that's a company that was and is still going places. Over the 4 years the stock price tripled! Unlikely to happen with MSFT.
Again the base is decent but the amount of stock is downright insulting.
L61
Bucket: 5
Merit: 0
Bonus: 0
Stock: 0
Scored lowered before it was sent back down to mgr. VPs have enough time to mess with individual review scores? I've read about so many being lowered before they're sent back down...are any raised?
In OSD, morale is bad, very bad. In fact, no one has discussed poll results with us. I think it's taking them this long to figure out a way to spin the results. Very sad.
No long term thinking/planning going on.
If the review is scheduled after every one on the team and close to 15th what does it mean (good or bad). Any thoughts?
I don't have 5's in my (small) team but I have 4's. When I have review meetings with each of them is totally up to me as long as I meet deadline. So at least in some cases review meeting day means nothing. I may mix my directs or I may have better performers at the end (close to Sept. 15th). My peer prefers to have reviews with better performers in the beginning of review period.
Let me summarize everything I've read so far:
o 5s are the new U/10s and are in deep shit.
o 4s are basically the same 5s.
o 3s are the future 4s and 5s.
o 2s are the good employees.
o 1s are back stabbing, ass kissing, political aholes.
Accurate summary?
It wouldn't be embarrassing to have Partner Development Managers from Bing using Google+.
this is actually the thing I wish more people at Microsoft did - actually use non Microsoft products to understand what the rest of the world is doing and I am happy to see someone at this level doing this. The CEO of Facebook has a Google+ account as he wants to understand how it functions. A lot of my frustration has been how much SLT at MS is not aware of the rest of the world and sending kudos emails for product achievements that are years behind or ridiculously useless.
In the first calibration meetings, where it's a few leads with their group manager or director, do the leads "leave room at the top" for themselves?
Leads are often in the same level bands as their reports, and each other.
Do they actually walk out of that meeting having agreed on 4 out of every 10 names to be 1s and 2s? Or do they maybe round a few people down, so there's room in the curve for their directors to over-represent leads in the top buckets, within level bands ... as the calibrations work up the chain?
I'm a Level 63 in the discipline that's not deserving of the bump. I'm quite happy with my 3 and the rewards. I'm probably a Kim. I love working at MSFT, and I am happiest when I can focus on delivering the core content that customers actually use. I've got lots of direct feedback that the work's been useful and solved problems and driven adoptions. I'd much rather do this work than pick the next generation authoring tool at Microsoft, which is going to suck because it's designed by committees. I'll work hard, I'll work long hours, and I'll go the extra mile for the customer, but I'm not missing my kid's childhood so that I can be seen as driving some pointless, vanity project that doesn't do squat for users of my product. I'da thunk that the layoffs had squeezed out the bandwidth to do "special projects" by now. With our current staffing, if you're not doing core work, you're putting deliverables at risk.
L60 promo to L61
Bucket: 1
Merit Increase: 5.25%
Promo Increase: 5%
R&D Increase: 12%
Bonus: 18%
Stock: 18%
Windows Fundamentals, SDET
Will I be able to move to the same level(L61) as a PM? Any tips for the informal interview..
A voluntary departure immediately after approval may put your GC in jeopardy.
this is total BS.
once you got the GC, you are legal to stay in the country for as long as you wish, that's what the "permanent" part means in the "Permanent Residence" implied by the legal status of GC. read it up, the immigration law is public for everyone to access.
"If the review is scheduled after every one on the team and close to 15th what does it mean (good or bad). Any thoughts? I worked past couple of years really hard and I am expecting something good but, my manager is an ass IMO."
Managers usually like delivering the good news first and the bad news last. Sorry buddy, you're getting a 4 or a 5.
But.. after reading everything here, you still want to work at Microsoft?
To the OP with the offer, please don't let anything you read here affect your decision. Microsoft is a fantastic place to work. I would suggest that the most important factors are whether you like the people you've met and/or interviewed with from the team, your level of excitement about the work you'll be doing, and what sort of career path you see for yourself going forward.
If you think you might want to be a lead at some point, then you're already entering at the level where you'll want to start gaining some leadership experience, so let your lead and manager know as it's their job to help you (when you're ready). Whether you see yourself going into management or staying IC, find a good mentor. When you build your commitments, always make sure at *least* one of them is to learn (and don't forget this). "Growth" is basically a synonym for "learning."
Once you're comfortable in your team and have had time to see how it functions, try to figure out in your head what you think the stack rank across your team looks like (taking peoples' titles into account). Base this on what you see of their contributions - their code and designs, how they help other individuals, how they help the team as a whole, and so on. Of course, keep in mind that your perspective may give an incomplete view of some teammates. Don't think of your colleagues as your competition. Instead, look to those at the top of your mental stack rank for inspiration and strive to be their peers in your mental model. If you're not sure, talk to your lead about good role models. Most will be fairly open in this regard.
Don't worry about the curve. Work hard, focus on making your team successful, and enjoy life!
Got 4 during this round review, the worst in the last 10+ years. Was expecting a 2 given the startup effort and what has been achieved. The manager is definitely trying to cover his ass and justify what is giving, based on feedbacks from some pissed off peers. My feeling is that in the future pear feedbacks are all that matters in the review process, at least in my group. What a great place to work in.
Has anyone heard about Microsoft Strategy Conference? If someone is nominated for this year's HiPo program, will he get the invitation to next year strategy conference automatically? Or are these two separate things?
What team would be the best to join?
1) Azure?
2) Windows?
3) SQL?
What should be the correct order
> ...negative feelings about
> the 3
> As a general rule 1's are in
> demand, 2s are neutral
> and 3s aren't interesting.
Guys, lets get back to earth again. A 3 is a totally accetable rating that says "every well done, solid performaer", as A/70 did before. 40% of us are 3s and it is wrong to create the impression that a 3 was bad. It is not.It is the majority.
L62->L63
Bucket: 1
merit: 5.25%
Promo: 5%
Bonus: 18%
Stock: 180% of L62 target, (sucks!!! it should be L63 target, but HR secretly changed the rule this year)
Old base 10XK
new base 12XK
Overall (BES+Bonus+Stock) I got 13K less than last year, since I got 16K less in Stock award this year. The new system isn't offering me any increase, even with my promotion.
Not feeling great about the new system.
I think Microsoft is a great great company and I am working here since 8 years. For people who dont work and play the system and for people who work hard and smart msft pays the same and tries its best to differenciate.
MSFT is a big company and to adapt a change it will take time. I belive this system is great and it will remove the managers who have less than 50 people the authority to judge. IMO, there shouldnt be senior manager/leads or Level 62 leads(These are jokers!!). who are these people any ways? They dont know why there is a feature change/cut at certain point of product cycle or cant justify current event and to cover up they bring up some illusionary stories as most of the IC's dont even care or no way to know what happend exatly in the magic room.
This system will remove these jokers and people leads(Who are principle and above) will be taking care of that. By saying this I dont say all current principal leads/managers that we have now are great but they will eventually move after serving their term. This churn will definatly not benifit few.
I my self got lot of 3's(A-70's - You can prove me wrong here) and few EA/20's. This is my 2cent for this discussion.
Havent got my review yet :) and I am eagarly waiting.
Cant digest that I got a '5' rating with no warning, and no verbal or documented feedback from manager. All commitmnets were met on target. Have tons of appreciation mails from senior managers from different orgs. Left with 2 choices- look for another job or escalate the matter. Silence here would be accepting defeat. Anyone knows the process of getting a reassessment done?
I believe every employee in Microsoft needs to be given an opportunity of being heard.Anyone knows the process of getting a reasessment done on performance review? Especially where he/she feels that a rating is unjustified.
Mini you should allow comments that have the format (just for this post)
Level
Bucket
Merit
Promo
Bonus
Stock
New Base.
Re: [fudbuster] - FINALLY! A voice of sanity amongst all the chicken crying the sky is falling if you get a 3 ... Thank you! To all the others: a 3 does not single you out in a negative way - it means solid performance, maybe not exceptional but you did your job. That is all. No sane manager will rule out a 3 from the beginning.
Some facts:
- L64 was heading E70, promoted MY to L65. Got A70 in new band that year. Compensation was fine at EOY (higher than L64 in E70). Very honest and transparent. Zero complain. Was happy!
- 2nd year L65, got E70. Another good year! Team, peers, managers, very happy!
- 3rd year L65, got A70, got some BS on the why and such ... complete dysfunctional org due to management change.
- Now this year, still L65 but as a new lead, some facts:
* Team feedback 100% all manager ratings
* Excellent team feedback, Very positive, everyone is eager to keep working with me.
* Mid-year, I’m heading for 2 (or maybe E70) if I keep going this way.
* My reports are only 2 and 3 only rated folks. Great team! Very strong, and honest! No toxic culture within my team.
* Team and myself delivered on all fronts above and beyond quality and in time.
* I'm clearly proposed as a 2 for calibration.
Gets back as 4!!! WTF? No one saw it coming. Including my manager who is as devastated as I’m.
I guess I’m not friend enough with the dysfunctional management (who has been displaced, but right after the calibration)
Just disgusted! Moving @MS? I can keep dreaming. Contacting some friend to move? Probably …
Now, considering outside for the first time in more than 8 years!!!
Not very excited though … I need to recover from this to save my soul first … I’m flat down!
MS just gave the first shovel hit to dig its grave ...
For all those who are worried about getting 4 or 5, here is an advice from someone who has sucked up such a seemingly disastrous review once: Don't panic. Sure your chance of moving across Microsoft are doomed. However, if you are really good (i.e. is not a 4 or 5 type stuff), try to prove that to your current group with your hard work.
As long as you have no personal enmity with your management, you would be surprised to see, how things ca improve in your own current group. You just have to be patient and forgiving.
I have risen from A/10 to promo next year. Sure you can do it too.
Can you refuse to sign your review? If so, what can you expect after you refuse? How does it hurt you?
10 Sensible Things Microsoft Is Too Stupid To Do:
1. Move all online properties including Bing, Live, Skype and O365 into a separate company and float it, initially 100% MS owned. This entity owns its P&L and either sinks or swims.
2. Buy Nokia. Against iOS and with Google's MOTO purchase, not owning end-to-end HW and SW experience spells doom for WP 7.
3. Make E&D including Nokia a separate company and float it, initially 100% MS owned. Again, this entity owns its P&L and either sinks or swims.
4. Demote Ballmer to head of WW sales. Move Turner to the role he is best suited for, Chief Bureaucratic Officer, or better still fire his ass and get someone to run operations.
5. Hire a real CEO with similar deal Tim Cook got - 1/2 billion $ vesting over 10 years.
6. Terminate idiotic 'curve' BS. Hire a top-notch HR consultancy to fix the review system. Let LisaB spend more time with her family, and hire a real HR VP, not some 20 year product group hack.
7. Double dividend
8. Remove stock awards and pay market rates.
9. Remove current Board and get some people who actually can find their ass with ONE hand.
10. Completely review the software development practices, which currently are unable to create products customers want to buy.
How many companies in this world following similar kind of curve?
Are the others not making profits? Can't we figure out some better way of handling the situation?
In MS we talk about Out of the Box thinking. Are we really thinking out of the box?
From 1994 till maybe 2000 it was a lot of fun. Since then, it's slid slowly and inevitably into chaos. I'm old enough to remember the dying days at Wang, Data General and DEC, and I saw IBM from across the river in the late 80s / early 90s. Microsoft in 2011 has very much the same feel. Anyway who is thinking of leaving: get out! Just do it. Anyone who is thinking of joining - don't do it!. Microsoft is at a technological dead-end - the afore-mentioned sow, feeding cash milk; nothing new is coming.
+1
Think about it. Why on earth would a smart college graduate join Microsoft? If he wants to change the world, he would go to a startup. If he wants a shot at making a ton of money, he would go to Facebook. Or pick from a bunch of other well-known pre-IPO companies. If he'd rather go to a safer, more established company, he'd pick Apple, Google, Amazon or the like over Microsoft.
Most new hires that come to Microsoft are those that a) aren't smart enough to get hired by the above companies, or b) want to feed on the milk from its cash cows. In other words, the a) not super smart, or b) risk averse, respectively.
The top management and partners at Microsoft know this and are deperately hoping to continuously prune the bottom levels (L59-L62) to keep and grow the few smart college hires that do stumble in to Microsoft. They're no longer confident that they're hiring the best. If not, wouldn't they want to keep most of them?
In addition the middle managers and leads in charge of deciding who to keep have become largely corrupt and incompetent. Corrupt because they are self serving and game the review system themselves. And incompetent because most managers at Microsoft who may have been good as ICs are bad at management. Shocking, but true.
So if you're thinking of joining, don't. Seriously. If you're a rock star, you'll do much better elsewhere, in terms of learning, growth, money and security. And even if you do well initially and survive the L59-L62 prunings, you will eventually hit the corrupt and incompetent middle management layer, and decay both personally and professionally.
From 1994 till maybe 2000 it was a lot of fun. Since then, it's slid slowly and inevitably into chaos. I'm old enough to remember the dying days at Wang, Data General and DEC, and I saw IBM from across the river in the late 80s / early 90s. Microsoft in 2011 has very much the same feel. Anyway who is thinking of leaving: get out! Just do it. Anyone who is thinking of joining - don't do it!. Microsoft is at a technological dead-end - the afore-mentioned sow, feeding cash milk; nothing new is coming.
+1
Think about it. Why on earth would a smart college graduate join Microsoft? If he wants to change the world, he would go to a startup. If he wants a shot at making a ton of money, he would go to Facebook. Or pick from a bunch of other well-known pre-IPO companies. If he'd rather go to a safer, more established company, he'd pick Apple, Google, Amazon or the like over Microsoft.
Most new hires that come to Microsoft are those that a) aren't smart enough to get hired by the above companies, or b) want to feed on the milk from its cash cows. In other words, the a) not super smart, or b) risk averse, respectively.
The top management and partners at Microsoft know this and are deperately hoping to continuously prune the bottom levels (L59-L62) to keep and grow the few smart college hires that do stumble in to Microsoft. They're no longer confident that they're hiring the best. If not, wouldn't they want to keep most of them?
In addition the middle managers and leads in charge of deciding who to keep have become largely corrupt and incompetent. Corrupt because they are self serving and game the review system themselves. And incompetent because most managers at Microsoft who may have been good as ICs are bad at management. Shocking, but true.
So if you're thinking of joining, don't. Seriously. If you're a rock star, you'll do much better elsewhere, in terms of learning, growth, money and security. And even if you do well initially and survive the L59-L62 prunings, you will eventually hit the corrupt and incompetent middle management layer, and decay both personally and professionally.
The rationality of a new rating system is not a justified one. The transparency of how the rating is achieved is a sacred process which I guess no manager wishes to talk in an open forum. I think the idea of introducing a new system and not been transparent on how did one get a 1-5 is something which is categorically missed out on purpose. If the Labour Folks are watching I think there gross voilation hapenning here. I'm sure 3,4's limit internal transfer and 5 is an exit door policy. It affects 60% of the staff isnt this a more structured way of firing people an Enron in the making....
L62 promoted to 63.
Bucket: 1+
Merit 5.x %, Promotion 5.x% R&D 5%
Bonus 22.5%
stock: 225%(225% of 11K, L62 stock target)
new base: 134 k
When I was promoted from 61 to 62, my stock target was of the 62 level not 61. This time around 225% was applied to L62 stock target not of L63.
Not sure anyone else noticed it...
can you appeal aginst your rating, talk to HR?
Level 62 SDE II
Bucket: 5
Stock To Cash: 7K
New salary: $111K
No R/D bump, no bonus, no stock.
I was dissapointed; had a manager last year give me a U/10 and try to fire me (actually he tried to get me to quit - I complained to HR and mentioned the word lawyer). He, of course, gave my new manager a terrible review for my first half of this year (and then left MS - or he would have been fired, how ironic).
My new manager thinks I am making progress, but there is room for improvement, and based on his view of the second half of the year (combined with the first half) tried to get me a 4 - but I was calibrated back down to a 5.
I am annoyed, I am worried, but I won't quit (perhaps I am stupid). My current manager says if progress continues, I won't be fired and he is actively trying to help me identify my weaker work tendencies that he feels are holding me back from level 63 (been in 62 too long). I wish I had a manager like this years ago, one that actually cared about my career - you know a manager, not a proctor who just hands out the test and gives you a big red grade on the top of the paper without really marking any of your answers wrong.
I have been here a while, I won't starve or lose my house if I get fired and I have some unique marketable skills. I am not a quitter however, this attitude gave me another year of my $100K+ salary and MS's great benefit package. This year I will either be fired or promoted (or in my dreams laid-off), I might be an optimist, but I truley believe this is in my hands this time - unless I get re-orged under a lesser manager; then I am screwed.
This is Bell Labs again. We're fucked. And this HR team is a bunch of fools. We should fire them first. What good does Microsoft HR do? Seriously! Let's start with the pig at the top.
The HR team is a lot worse than a bunch of fools. But I'm not sure how much to blame them and Brummel for this joke of a review system (remember "Limited"?). It's ultimately Ballmer and most of his lietenants that have caused irreversable damage to Microsoft.
Brummel and Ballmer may go, but most of Ballmer's lieutenants and all the way down the management chain are where they are because they think the same way. If not, they've been stabbed in the back, and/or given a "4/5", and left the company a long time ago.
That's why the post about the sow and its milk was so funny. That's really all that's left to do, and that's all the savvy ones are doing.
L62 (no promo)
* in level for 1 year
Bucket: 1
Merit + R&D + stock2Salary: ~17%
Bonus ~$17K
Stock ~$19k
New base: 117k
Not sure where I stand in the salary range for an L62.
Anyone knows what the "rules" say about not signing the review doc ? Any best practices ?
Some people have posted here that when HR decided to give them the boot HR offered two choices 1) "Resign", or 2) Be terminated immediately, with HR strongly recommending a "resignation would look better". This is interesting... and I ask why?
I'd ask "Looks better to who, or for who - HR's scorecard?" Remember you never have to sign anything under duress at least in the USA. They must allow you time to see an attorney(typically 3 weeks). No matter how bad you feel at the moment just pick up the paperwork and tell them you'd like your attorney to review it first, and take a name and number of who you're to follow up with within that timeframe. Don't even sign the non-compete they put in front of you, which is essentially agreeing to a new non-compete with possibly more rigorous language than you originally signed when you started, unless you've reviewed it with an atty.
If they get you to "resign" then they possibly don't have to pay unemployment (though a few posters have commented they were able to get it done with some delay - don't count on the same mileage with the State if they're looking for an excuse to deny benefits - if you were to say you "resigned", when you were actually 'constructively discharged'). Secondly, if they get you to "resign", then you're one less person they have to report as possibly RIF'd or fired for WARN. Either way, internally you'll be considered 'good attrition' Your score and re-hiring chances are nil. Externally MS only reports the dates you worked at the Company. They do not report why you left.
I was one of those who was surprised with a 4. I achieved some amazing results this year but it didn't matter. I've heard of others who I consider outstanding contributors getting unusually low ratings (4s and 5s). If they are hoping I'll leave, perhaps it would be fun to stick around just to annoy them.
"A more detailed look at the process and some of the gotchas and Microsoft hardball tactics I encountered while an employee and after they learned of the EEOC complaint filed after my termination may be forthcoming in my book. Currently looking for a publisher with good marketing, so that I don't have to do all of it myself, anyone have any contacts?"
Thanks for explaining the state and federal levle complaints. Isn't there a "rule" that if an employee files while still on payroll, Microsoft could not really "touch" you unless you steal from Microsoft or screw a co-worker? Is this just a myth? If there is such un-spoken rule, should all the "5" file a complaint immediately---before 9/7/11?
Heads off to you, have the balls to file while you were still getting paid!
Interesting but not surprising study on managers playing favorites:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111904009304576532352522029520.html
msdhipoemp is an alias some here may be interested in if they want to know who some of the hipo's are.
I got a gold star and exceeded last year, and was told during calibration by leads I was #1 on the list for promo and stack ranked very high. (I used to be a lead)
L63
No Promo
4
Merit: 1.15%
R&D: 5%
Stock to Base Adjust: $4k
New Base: $129k
Bonus: $5800
Stock: $8500
I the inside info I have indicates that I was a victim at the GM level of some shuffling over what went to him as the stack rank.
5 in group allowed to switch groups and was hired, so 5 doesn't always mean instant termination.
"Another clue: this pair of sh*t both drive German cars, hey, there are enough clues here right? StevenSi, do the names jumped out to you? What's our developer story? How much damage has this pair done? Please don't tell me that neither of them get a "4" or "5"! If you don't know their names, ask JulieLar, I hope you two can figure out who they are, better yet, you have fired both of them!"
Has anyone figure this pair of principles in Windows yet? Additional clue: the GPM was in WEX during W7 development.
Build8! is nothing more than a preview of w8 for developers, but how stupid can you be, not being able to update your portal---I'm not talking about the new W8 App Store neither. Fire this asshole for the damage done to the morale and share price.
JulieLar the ball is on your court. At the very least, when W9 comes around---whether market wants or not, don't put these pair anywhere in W9 re-org that can do further damage to Microsoft or Windows. They will not help you, StevenSi or Microsoft to deliver SoC, or ARM or nVidia or client/phone on same version of Windows, time is running out on us, it's not too late, fire their asses---before 09/01/11.
cannot say anything....still waiting for review...OSD
Anyone know what the salary ranges are for the various levels?
L62
Bucket:3
Merit 2.5
Stock to base 7K
Bonus 9K
Stock 11K
New Base 108K
Not sure how I feel about the new system...(sigh) Don't want to be stuck where I am forever...but from the comments doesn't sound like there'll be any options internal for 3s
Talking to lots of friends it appears that people over 50 are getting crappy reviews for some pretty petty reasons. Anyone else seeing this?
Got a 3. The rest of the numbers aren't really important-- they're in accordance with what HR laid out. And money isn't the only important motivator, anyway.
The feedback was not in line with the score. The constructive feedback was nowhere near balanced with the praise as one would expect it to be for a marginal review score.
But the thing that bothered me the most is that my boss kept telling me how I should feel about the score. Odd that feelings got brought up at all. But I don't feel how (s)he thinks I should. I feel hurt, ashamed, and afraid. I've been at MSFT well over 10 years, and this is the first time I've been blindsided. Maybe I've just been lucky until now.
"Let me summarize everything I've read so far:
o 5s are the new U/10s and are in deep shit.
o 4s are basically the same 5s.
o 3s are the future 4s and 5s.
o 2s are the good employees.
o 1s are back stabbing, ass kissing, political aholes.
Accurate summary?"
1+
Accurate description for Windows PM's in B27
Two qs:
1) does Microsoft pay in arrear or advance? Wondering, if I get fired say on Sept 15, I should expect to get paid for the 15 days right?
2) When do the bonus and pay raise reflect - Sept 1 or Sept 15?
"What team would be the best to join?
1) Azure?
2) Windows?
3) SQL?
"
The order: Azure. Nothing else.
Windows is an old boys' place. Don't even think about it. And what good is your skillset outside of Microsoft going to be?
SQL: the guys there are a bunch of assholes.
With the new model where our performance is totally relative to what our peers do, I am trying to understand what it is that will motivate people to compete with Google and Apple when the true competition is the colleague next door ?
"What team would be the best to join?
1) Azure?
2) Windows?
3) SQL?
What should be the correct order"
Windows should not even be in your list. my .2cents
L62 SDET
Bucket - 3
Merit - 2.55%
R&D - 5%
Stock adj. - 7,000
Bonus - 10% of BES
Stock - 11,000
Mid-year 61->62 promo.
New base - 115,145.00
Layoff's on 9.7 is BS. Sourced here: www.esd.wa.gov/newsandinformation/warn/index.php
I am a recent hire (early Feb) and received a 4. I was told that a lot of new hires were given this due to the focus on "what have you done over the last 12 months" as opposed to future potential/capabilities. Was my manager blowing smoke or have others heard/experienced similar ratings?
Windows is the most interesting place to be right now, and far from an "old boys' club." I'd take Azure over SQL in a pinch but doesn't exactly seem like exciting work.
"Cant digest that I got a '5' rating with no warning, and no verbal or documented feedback from manager. All commitmnets were met on target. Have tons of appreciation mails from senior managers from different orgs. Left with 2 choices- look for another job or escalate the matter. Silence here would be accepting defeat. Anyone knows the process of getting a reassessment done?"
Dude, there is no such thing as a review reassessment at Microsoft when you receive a score. It doesn't happen unless there's a legal risk.
If you received a 5 it's been fully vetted with HR and your management chain. Everyone is aware. Nobody cares about your side of the story, that ship has long since sailed.
Given your situation, your only recourse is to assemble all of your feedback and talk to an attorney to see if you have a case for discrimination. Are you over 40? Is your team hiring many younger people? Do you have a disability? etc.
I don't understand why people think that the company would ever review and change their review scores just because you think they made a mistake. "But look, Microsoft, at all of this e-mail I have saying I did a great job!" What happens is that HR will do a risk assessment for lawsuit, and if it comes back negative you'll only be pissing off your management.
Talk to a lawyer first. If an attorney thinks you might have a case, then go from there. If not, let it go.
"What team would be the best to join?
1) Azure?
2) Windows?
3) SQL?
"
The order: Azure. Nothing else.
Windows is an old boys' place. Don't even think about it. And what good is your skillset outside of Microsoft going to be?
SQL: the guys there are a bunch of assholes.
Why not Windows Live? Bing? Windows Mobile? Office? XBOX? Windows Server?
Azure is still growing and haven't started making any profit. How do we know it will be the best group to join?
How much time approximately it takes to get promoted from 61 to 62?
62 -> 63 ?
Hello everyone,
This “crap” (Excuse my language) that is called performance review and stock awards was put in place to reward a small % of the employee base. Don’t understand me wrong, I am not defending people who don’t do a decent job. Not all who get 4 or 5 are their fault. Microsoft has the largest % of incompetent managers I have ever seen in one place (I am lucky my managers are not in that category). These managers cause people their jobs because they become managers for reason only known MS HR.
The reason I am writing this post is the following.
I believe it is time for the company to think of an additional employee performance review system in addition to the current one. My idea is:
When the employee signs up she/he is given 2 choices. One is to be part of the current system the company has. The second is what I call the fair system. Emmployees who choose the fair system:
- Get no Stock.
- Get no bonus.
- Get the base salary.
- Get annual merit increase (will be more than inflation rate).
The employees who agree to be part of the fair performance review system will:
- Not be stack ranked.
- Will not be assigned numbers from 1 to 5, therefore as long as they meet their commitments, they will keep their job.
Once an employee chooses one system, she/he cannot change their choice.
The performance review takes a lot of energy/time from the company. This new addition will simplify things.
This way the current system will be left for the ones who want to game the system all the time.
For us who are currently working for MS, HR could give us the choice to switch to the fair system or keep the current one.
I discussed this idea with colleagues, I even thought about sending an email to Lisa Brummel discussing this with her.
To everyone on this post who know her, please feel free to send her this idea, if you wanted to claim it yours, that is fine too. Many of my work in the past have been claimed by others.
I see it unfair and unethical when an employee achieve all of his/her commitments, but because he/she is stack ranked and get lower 3s or 4s lose his/her job. No one should be fired if they achieve commitments unless the company is downsizing. This fair performance review system will fix that.
By the way, I don’t have my review numbers yet.
Regards,
The guy from Office Intl.
"9 out of every 10 who got a 4 or a 5 landed exactly where they probably should have"...
If 1 in 5 people in your team are idiots, you need to work in a different team. In general, the issue with curving is, it's not global curving. Each dev lead in his team had to give a 4 or a 5 to one of his guys. Guess what, in a good team, the 4 or 5 could still be a 2 or 3 somewhere else.
Worry not, when the 4s and 5s are gone, you will be the 4. The remaining will duly think you're the fool that deserved it.
"I have risen from A/10 to promo next year. Sure you can do it too."
You can get a promo with a 4 or a 3 too. They would love to promote you in mid-year so (a) you get paid nothing in bonus or salary raise (b) they can judge you at the new level the next review and screw you over again.
But thanks for the positive note. Just talking reality.
Re: everyone asking for reassessment: doesn't happen. Forget it.
OP: "- L64 was heading E70, promoted MY to L65. Got A70 in new band that year. Compensation was fine at EOY (higher than L64 in E70). Very honest and transparent. Zero complain. Was happy!
- 2nd year L65, got E70. Another good year! Team, peers, managers, very happy!
- 3rd year L65, got A70, got some BS on the why and such ... complete dysfunctional org due to management change.
- Now this year, still L65 but as a new lead, some facts:
* Team feedback 100% all manager ratings
* Excellent team feedback, Very positive, everyone is eager to keep working with me.
* Mid-year, I’m heading for 2 (or maybe E70) if I keep going this way.
* My reports are only 2 and 3 only rated folks. Great team! Very strong, and honest! No toxic culture within my team.
* Team and myself delivered on all fronts above and beyond quality and in time.
* I'm clearly proposed as a 2 for calibration.
Gets back as 4!!! WTF? No one saw it coming. Including my manager who is as devastated as I’m.
"
Brother, you've been stuck at your level for too long.
Welcome to the gang. I pray everyone here that got a good review here learn one day the hard way that it takes little to get a 4 or a 5. And it's not always deserved.
Got a 4. Was told nobody in the org got a 5. Which is scary. What should I do if I get dragged into a meeting and asked to resign?
a) Resign
b) Ask them to fire me.
Should I ask them to fire me so I can collect unemployment and it looks bad on Microsoft's scorecard and they have to report this? And then consult an attorney? What should I sign or not sign? I don't care about what footprint I leave in the system - either way, they won't hire me again. And Microsoft anyways is going down the drain is my belief.
I have some stocks from prior years that should vest on 8/31. If I get fired on 8/30, will they still vest?
I think the answer here is yes: do you lose your unvested stocks when you quit or get fired?
No one has answered this clearly. What happens if we get a 5?
1) Instantly fired
2) Given a few weeks to leave Microsoft
3) You can keep the job till the next review.
If it is a mixture of all three, can people share their experiences.
"I worked in the Windows client team about 5 years ago. This was truly a dysfunctional part of the org. One day I decided to do absolutely nothing for as long as I could. Most of the day I spent playing chess (Shredder). I attended mandatory meetings and responded enthusiastically to idiotic emails, but I produced absolutely no work output worth speaking of. This continued for about 4 months until I got a job with another group.
And nobody noticed. Which in itself was depressing."
And you feel comfortable with it and you think yoiu deserve your salary, right?
It doesn't matter what score I get, I work for a living, and I don't play and do nothing for a living.
L65 - IC dev
Bucket: 3
Merit: 2.5%
R&D Increase: 5%
Stock to Cash: $3K
Bonus: $29K
Stock: $36K
New Salary: $162K
Had I received a 2 (which was my expectation), I would be pretty happy. The 3 did two things - lopped off ~$30+K in rewards and showed me that I'm not as valued in the organization as I thought I was. Great peer feedback, not good enough visibility to GM level staff.
Overall, dissapointed with how I'm viewed, and bummed at the money left on the table between bucket 3 & 2.
...Sounds like you are just trying to rationalize staying at Microsoft to yourself. I have worked for several other companies and they have all been much better than Microsoft.
No, my work is interesting. The work I do kept me with Microsoft. I also worked for several other companies. By far, Microsoft has a better system. I am not saying that the system is perfect. Indeed, it has many flaws. People are still trying to fix it. If you know a better system, how does it look like? Why is it better?
It is pretty depressing to read all this.
L60 SDET, U/10 last review, with a hellish year following involving lots of status e-mails to help document my future failings (me: "I did X." lead: "You didn't do Y, and X wasn't very good"). Clearly building a paper trail unrelated to any successes I was able to accomplish. So in the Spring I bailed. Posted a first effort resume on dice.com, it wasn't supposed to be a final effort, just my initial attempt to get the ball rolling...forgot to mention some items, planning to come back to it ya know. WELL: about 2 hours later my phone started ringing. And e-mail contacts started pouring in. 24 hours later, I took it down, just to stop the deluge. Granted, most were contract jobs at 'a software giant in Redmond', but I also interviewed with *other* software giants outside of Redmond. I'm happily working a contract job right now, and studying up to widen my job knowledge away from the rather specialized niche I worked in at MS. No review time milk-n-honey for me, but much less stress, more family time, etc.
Also: dice.com has a deal where a resume company will offer to review your resume, hoping you hire them to rewrite it for you. Just the free review provided LOTS of great suggestions. If I hadn't had such overwhelming response already, I'd probably pay for their rewriting service.
Bottom line: not every company in the world has such an internally competitive system that encourages back-stabbing so well. Sure, every employer needs to decide how to split up any largesse for the new year, unless they have no largesse to offer. But they don't have to ignore or sacrifice team players to feed their uberman rockstars. There is a happier world out there.
Does anyone know if a L66 qualifies for the bench program? Does your manager have to recommend you for this or is this self initiated?
Got a 5 out of nowhere. First time I heard most the feedback was reading it on the review. Manager listed a bunch of trumped up reasons, some were just plain lies. Peer feedback was all positive except for one person putting a disagree on one question. He’s so bad that during the year a few of his people complained to his manager about him. All of them got 5s.
Some people here have talked about going to HR. Has anyone gotten any good out of doing that? Please no trolls, I need real answers.
But.. after reading everything here, you still want to work at Microsoft?
To the OP with the offer, please don't let anything you read here affect your decision.
Yeah, what would all the employees who are commenting here know?
Microsoft is a fantastic place to work.
That's true; free Kool-Aid is still available for some.
I would suggest that the most important factors are whether you like the people you've met and/or interviewed with from the team, your level of excitement about the work you'll be doing, and what sort of career path you see for yourself going forward.
All of which will count for nothing if you get caught up in a bad reorg, or if, through no fault of your own, you end up getting hosed at review time.
I have risen from A/10 to promo next year. Sure you can do it too.
Don't take this question the wrong way, you're attitude is great, but how old are you? I think there's a big difference from someone who is closer to their twenties getting a score like that, versus someone closer to their forties.
I am posting my approximate numbers here.
L62->L63
Bucket: 1
Merit: 5-6%
Promo: 13-14%
R&D: 5%
Stock to cash: 7K
Final new base: ~140K
Bonus: 18%
Stock: 180% of L62 target
I think I got a good deal. I had to work hard in a very competitive team but that's what it takes I think.
It's understandable that most people come to complain anonymously here, but I don't think Microsoft's culture is much worse than any other giant international corporations.
You should start thinking about start-ups or smaller companies if you can't adjust to the system.
I have not gotten my review yet, so no opinion there yet. However, it seems like nothing has really changed since last year - same enforced curve, same politics, same stress.
In a former life I worked at a company that was all about teamwork. Sometimes things were tough in that company, but there was always the sense that we were in it together.
In all honesty I would rather get paid less and be in an environment where people work together instead of only looking out for number one. Looking for a job now. I have had enough of this nonsense. It isn't healthy either for me or the company.
Gets back as 4!!! WTF? ... Now, considering outside for the first time in more than 8 years!!!
Not very excited though … I need to recover from this to save my soul first … I’m flat down!
So many of you are emotionally devastated by your review scores, or by being laid off, etc. What a pathetic lack of confidence. Why do you care what a faceless multinational corporation thinks of you, especially one that's mired in bureaucracy and is failing in the marketplace? Anyway, just get a better job with a different company. And if you can't, then you deserve your crappy review score and it shouldn't have been a surprise.
L60 Service Engineer
Bucket - 4
Merit - 1.15%
R&D - 12%
Stock adj. - 1,500
Bonus - 5% of BES
Stock - 1,250
In OSD. Extremely disappointing. Have had excellent reviews the previous three years as well as a Gold Star, then a forced role change and re-org this year. Manager tried to sugar-coat it by telling me "most" people got 3s and 4s, as though I don't know how to do math.
A 15% total pay raise on top of a bad review is sort of hilarious, though.
So my review, which was solidly scheduled for tomorrow (8/31), has been rescheduled, for no apparent reason, for Sept. 7. Given what I read above, I have a bad feeling about this...
L63 here. I got a shocker of a 4 due to an a**h*** manager. It would have been a 2/3 with any other manager with integrity.
What if I quit Microsoft without signing the annual review? Will the 4 still be on the record (in case I decide to return in the future)?
@Let me summarize everything I've read so far:
o 5s are the new U/10s and are in deep shit.
o 4s are basically the same 5s.
o 3s are the future 4s and 5s.
o 2s are the good employees.
o 1s are back stabbing, ass kissing, political aholes.
Accurate summary?
liked it :)
L65
Bucket: 3
Merit: 2.5%
Stock to base: 3K
Bonus: $17K (12.58%)
Stock: $36K
New base:145K
Your bonus seems low. As a L65 in bucket 3, you should have recieved 100% of your bonus target, which is 20%. Are you in some sort of sales position that doesn't have the standard bonus?
Not the OP, but as this happened to me I can explain it. Basically this person was promoted to L65 band sometime in FY11. HR not only prorates you by using the bonus elegible salary metric, but they now also prorate the bonus.
This means anyone that moves bands at review time cannot achieve the full bonus the next FY.
Another interesting tidbit - this prorating only affects the bonus. You still get full stock award target.
I am curious to find out what it prorates against. A full L65 bucket 3 should get 20% bonus. He is getting 12.58%. Does it prorate against L64 bucket 3 which is 10%? Even so, the prorated % should be 13.33%, not 12.58%. Double ripoff?!
Simon Witts leaving Microsoft, that's a big change especially after as it comes less than a year after Bob Mu... This is screaming for a comment. What says you mini?
OP of "10 Sensible Things Microsoft Is Too Stupid To Do" earlier.
It amazes me why the company provides stock awards on the one hand, and simultaneously has an ongoing stock repurchase program. The same goes for 401k match being funded thru stock.
As I understand it, both these practices are sort of like the Fed printing money ... it devalues existing currency/shares. So it is just smoke and mirrors, improving cash flow by $xxx and reducing the market cap by at least as much, or likely more because of all the paperwork associated with stock awards.
As MS is flush with cash, using stock in these ways is just plain silly, although stock vesting schedule does provide some employee stickiness.
L62
Promo to 63
Bucket: 2
Merit: 4% (+5% R&D)
Promo: 5%
Bonus: $14K
Stock: $14K
It is a nice increase but merit increase is hardly catch up with the inflation after a few years of nothing much.
Review model seems very strict = a lot of discussion in calibration to get in the the bucket. Review is same old thing, fit-the-curve and update the review feedback to reflect the bucket.
My division went through a major org changes because the over half of management were gone, they don't get along with their new manager. Not much of a surprise though, some management still think of us like a lego piece -- with no emotion or appreciation. You can imagine how complicate the review would be with this re-org turmoil.
The new review system has come under heavy criticism and is impacting high percentage % of the staff and it’s not doing good to the company morale. Short term impact high attrition, Long Term impact is shaken shareholders faith in the brand and falling share value with horrible EPS. Its time when the actual sentiments got consolidated and been echoed in the Wall Street Journal, "MSFT running a butcher shop and lack of strategic vision by firing top talent" and doing a reverse Apple. If Google, Apple,IBM are watching good talent available at throw away rates.
This system is great at chipping away at your morale and your soul if you let it. Grats on the excellent work, HR.
"Stock: 180% of L62 target, (sucks!!! it should be L63 target, but HR secretly changed the rule this year)"
HR didn't change the rules, they "fixed the glitch".
Your bonus has always been based on your past years salary. Your stock award should have been based on your previous years level as well.
However, there was a 'glitch' where HR was calculating stock based off of the new level. This year, they simply 'fixed the glitch'. Like it or not, its actually fair.
The only criticism you'll see from me is they should have just communicated they were doing it.
L62 -> L63 Dev (in puget sound)
Bucket: 1
Merit: 5.25%
Promo: 5%
R&D: 5%
S2B: 7K
Bonus: 18%
Stock: 180%
New Base: 140K
Multiple gold stars along the way.
Disappointed I didnt get the 1+, but review was fair overall.
"I don't have 5's in my (small) team but I have 4's. When I have review meetings with each of them is totally up to me as long as I meet deadline."
Come on, just do the damn reviews with your people and don't leave them hanging, wondering if they got any money/stock or not, what their merit is, what their number is. Is it just some weird power play on your part, to make people wait? IF the numbers are fixed, tell your people where they stand. Today would be good, and I'm sure your people could make time for it. Did you wait until the last second to do your homework in college, too, or is this just a special behavior you pull out of whereever when people's futures are at stake? All of you with reviews to do, especially if it's good news, could you just get on with it?
What exactly happens in India Development Center is - if you are a Tamil/Telugu speaker, and your manager is also the same - then even if you do nothing - you will consistently end up in 20%E or the current 1 rating. Have seen one good-for-nothing guy getting from L59 to L63 in 4 years, and everyone in the team knows what a big buttering expert he is.
I am a L61 SDET. The so-called (mis-)managers kept on cutting out feature after another, kept me almost idle for 4 months in last review period; and now they say that u have done nothing. Got a 3 - a borderline of 3 and 4 as per my great manager.
I repeatedly kept pointing out in my 1:1 that look this 4 months idling is going to cost me my career. the gentleman kept saying nothing to worry etc etc.
I have refreshed my resume, and on a job hunt now. Will join any competitor of Microsoft, who offers me a better job. Enough of wasting my life at Microsoft.
Will update when I get a new job.
1. How about we look at every 5, track back to who hired them, and can that person?
2. And in a civilized world: If you have people who aren't doing all they need to do to succeed (trending to 4/5), how about TELLING them, both at midyear and along the way, providing some guidance for improvement, give them input and advice, training, opportunity to grow? Like an actual manager might do? Instead of just waiting to ambush them at annual review time? And if they are really so bad that they don't deserve any of this effort on your part, see Point 1 above.
I don't believe in the bottom percent being canned every year, it's just stupid, and shows poor hiring processes (can we say too many vendor recruiters?). The forced curve cannot accurately identify who needs to move along, because if you have carefully chosen great people in the hiring process, you should see review scores of 1, 2, and 3, some 4s for cause, and a few 5s that slipped through by faking everyone out in the recruitment phase.
I say some 5s are definitely in order for awarding this year, for the HR people who established the stupid forced curve, for the recruiters who identified crappy employees to be interviewed, and for the management who hired badly in the first place. It's like grad school, where they say a "C" grade is "not graduate level work" because the D and F students should not have been admitted in the first place. How can we have hired so poorly, if we really have 7 or 10 or 20% of the people who aren't doing a very good job at their position? If we are recruiting the best, there shouldn't be a bottom 7% to cut. Say it: The emperor has no clothes.
Anybody else hearing that the bonus will be paid this week?
I'd much rather do this work than pick the next generation authoring tool at Microsoft, which is going to suck because it's designed by committees.
You mean there's already another one after DxStudio? Good grief. Someone needs to get these people something better to do.
This is another distraction caused by the Microsoft "reinvent the wheel to get rewarded" culture. As opposed to the "find the most efficient way to solve the problem" culture that exists at many other companies - from Amazon to a 3-guy startup.
Some teams used an off-the-shelf package with some local customizations, that worked well for writing developer documentation. Then some big-toothed PM decided to "improve" things. "Things" mostly being his career. And he started promoting hacking Microsoft Word into being a structured documentation authoring solution. You know, using that XML editing capability that got Microsoft legally screwed when another company sued them? Is that why it's time for a new tool?
It was the typical technical sales scenario, whereby the salesman convinced management that he knew better than the potential user base, how the tool should work, because writers aren't really technical enough to know those things. He glossed over reality: the proposed user group contained former kernel devs, former web devs, etc., with more coding experience than the PM had. Those people recognized a fragile application architecture depending on baling wire when they saw it. And that doesn't even consider the usability impact of poor performance of a non-native-code app built on top of Microsoft Word.
The tool was sold based on the proposed reduction of document publishing effort. IE, the back end process of converting the authored text to printed or web published content. The increase in time it would take to author structured documents was poo-poo'ed as a training issue rather than the usability issue it was.
Before long, this was a source of great randomization as a marquee team already overloaded with work was forced onto it despite the team ICs' wishes. It slowed things down by at least a few percent, and as much as 30-40% in some cases. And this, on a project with legal deadlines attached to it.
These stats on lowered writer production were presented to management, who shrugged off objective data as getting in the way of the decision they'd already made to move ahead. They threw, and may still be throwing, millions of dollars into a money pit rather than just adopting a good off-the-shelf solution.
The contractors working on the project at one point leaked the spec to the proposed users. The contractors were concerned that what was spec'd was something that couldn't be built, and they didn't want to be in the position of not delivering. I heard that they hoped that that would give the proposed user community enough ammo to reset the project. It didn't.
Oh, the stories of modern corporate dysfunction that will be told in the book.
got a 4. was messaged I would get a 3 all along but then too many other 4s left the team and i floated down into the 4 bucket. get the impression my manager wasn't as prepared with the "pitch" as the other leads. yes I'm over 40. yes i should have looked for another position sooner. was always a strong performer with a stable review history. disappointed in myself for not acting sooner and the "system" for forcing a curve. it's demoralizing and yes I'm looking and have a potential offer outside already.
If they are hoping I'll leave, perhaps it would be fun to stick around just to annoy them.
A bit spiteful, are we?
Seriously, as someone who did just that, but for a different reason, let me offer some advice.
Don't do it if that's the only reason. Save your soul. Get out. It is soul-crushing to withstand, and if you don't have a greater reason to put up with it, it SO is not worth it.
Here's the kind of stuff this former E/20, gold star rockstar type went through after a reorg.
MYCD, containing my manager, his manager and an HR staff member (oh no, no drama expected here!):
(( Manager presents an allegation or two ))
IC: "It is unreasonable to complain that someone on vacation wasn't responsive to emails on the day they were received. Can you point me to the email in which I agreed to respond to emails daily while on holiday from my 60-80 hour a week job?" (Of course, there was none)
(( IC presents graphs showing performance relative to peers ))
Manager's manager: "It's not your job to be comparing your performance to your peers."
IC: "If the person whose job it is isn't doing it accurately and objectively, then I'm going to point it out to give you the chance to hear more of the story."
(( Manager concludes review by saying that at this point I was a U/10 and, "Between now and the annual review, I will be considering my options. Including termination." ))
IC, with a bemused expression: "Thank you for the information."
Manager, certain that with that calm a reaction I couldn't have heard him: "I will be considering my options. Including termination."
IC: "Yes, I heard you the first time. And I said thank you for the information."
This was not a surprise to me. The only surprising thing was that after a year of constructive termination activities, he had the balls (or stupidity) to admit that that was what he was trying to do. To someone with a great history on that team and performance still in the upper 20-30% of it based on a credible set of metrics.
I wasn't the first person he targeted. Another former victim, who eventually succeeded in getting out from his team, came to my assistance to help back up my story to HR, and that prompted the investigation that occurred.
Why did I put up with this hostility for over a year? I was well-known and well-liked around certain quarters of Microsoft. I had had offers from multiple orgs, for roles in multiple disciplines, who wanted someone with my skill level, enthusiasm and drive on their teams.
I felt that as soon as I could convince someone at Microsoft to handslap my manager and tell him that he could not continue to hold me as an alleged non-performer, when I could document that I was anything but, I could resume my career on a less-dysfunctional team. And then I could create great products, make a positive difference in the company bottom line, and just in general have a good time at work - as I had at Microsoft up until the time of that reorg. I liked the company (the good parts at least), and I sure wanted to collect on my significant stock awards that had not yet vested.
It took over a year, but I did it. HR did the handslap, took all ICs away from the manager in question, and freed me to look elsewhere. Unfortunately they had run the clock on the investigation and made sure that I was "freed" only after being kimmed with an A/10, right before the '08 hiring freeze that made it impossible for me to move. I was forced out at the layoff.
Had I to do it over: I'd do it again. But for the layoff, I am certain I could have gotten out and to a good team, 10% notwithstanding. One of my many connections would eventually have come through with an appropriate opportunity. Outside of that one manager, my list of kudos was pages long, and some GM eventually would have agreed to give me a chance. I'd've kicked butt, and that would have been the end of the story.
Does anyone know what is automatic salary raise when moving from Redmond to California. This is for 64 level dev.
Dead prior to arrival (DpA)
L62 - SDET2
Expected rating @MYRD: 3
Expected rating @ 8/1: 4
Expected rating since 8/15: 5
My manager's language changed drastically in the last few weeks erasing all hopes of a mediocre review. She went from you can still make an impact at mid-year to you are not meeting expectations and putting it in writing in the last month.
I think I am headed for the choppiong block on 9\6. Check conf room bookings on that day for bldg 36 or your building.
Any advice on what I should do at the review meeting?
Will I be offered any sevrance, cobra?
Please share your experience or knowledge.
L59 -> L60
Bucket: 3
Merit: 2.5%
Promo: 10%
R&D: 12%
Bonus: $7K
Stock: $3K
SDET. Felt like my results made a difference in my rating, all good.
L62
Bucket: Got a 4 (OUCH!)
Merit: 1.15%
Bonus: $5000
Stock: $5500
4 came as a complete shock to me. I have always gotten good reviews, and worked my tail off this year. But one group outside my org complained about me not giving enough status updates way back before midyear. So we talked about it at midyear, and I felt I had resolved it. That was the only thing that my boss could cite as the reason for getting a 4. I said we resolved this - but he maintains that this is a 'whole year review'. What the heck. He knows that my kid needs the health benefit for Autism, so I cant leave MS and go ANYWHERE else... And now I'm locked in to this dead-end team with a tepid manager because of the 'bucket 4' stink. I'm sure THAT will equate to more productivity...
Talking to lots of friends it appears that people over 50 are getting crappy reviews for some pretty petty reasons. Anyone else seeing this?
Time to get some better-performing friends. If you're at Microsoft and not willing to learn how to play the game, you are a 4. If you work harder than everyone else that doesn't learn the game, you might get a 3.
Question: From someone who got an unexpected 4... How is that seen? Would you hire a 4? Or is it just a 'might as well have been a 5' ?
Just wondering about my future...
Add another one to those that got a promo or a Gold Star at mid-year, but then somehow ended up as 4.
When I challenged my manager on how I went from gold star to scarlet A, his only rebuttal was that the new review model was tough and there was a lot of fighting.
"can you appeal aginst your rating, talk to HR?"
I refer you to the Godfather, part II, when Tession gets a 5.
[as Tessio and Hagen walk to Michael's house, they are met by a bodyguard]
Willi Cicci: The boss says he'll come in a separate car. He says for you two to go on ahead.
Tessio: Hell, he can't do that; that screws up all my arrangements.
Willi Cicci: Well, that's what he said.
Tom Hagen: I can't go with you either, Tessio.
[as bodyguards materialize around them, Tessio understands everything]
Tessio: [to Hagen] Tell Mike it was only business, I always liked him.
Tom Hagen: He understands that.
Willi Cicci: [removing Tessio's gun] Excuse me, Sally.
Tessio: Can you get me off the hook, Tom? For old times' sake?
Tom Hagen: [shakes his head] Can't do it, Sally.
[Hagen watches sadly as Tessio is led to a waiting car]
All of Windows received an email today about the promotion of three new Partner devs. Just what we need...
For any readers who aren't MSFT employees, having a title that that starts with "Partner" is like winning the lottery. Your total compensation package balloons to roughly ten times the amount of a non-Partner in the same job. Even better, you don't really have to do any work, and the liklihood that you'll be held responsible for your mistakes drops to near zero. You're set for life.
You're also pretty well guaranteed to get great annual reviews. Why? In order for someone to get that coveted title, many higher layers of "important people" had to agree that the new Partner was actually worth it. These higher-ups will never allow themselves to be proven wrong by acknowledging a Partner's failure. It would be too much of an embarassment. So the higher up the food chain someone go, the more likely s/he is to get glowing reviews. Once you're in, you're in.
The same self-reinforcing, zero-accountability dynamic applies to folks whose job titles start with "Director", "Vice President", and "President".
All the way up to the Great Gazoo himself...
If you are 4 or a 5, my suggestion is to start looking out, the axe is on its way..
Yes it is on its way, on Sept 7th to be exact. Massive RIF across the company.
Manager has postponed my review meeting until next week. Should I be nervous? (lvl 60, first review)
Lvl 65, bucket 3. Crushed my goals and then some. Go figure.
Been here a long time. Something feels very broken this year. I can't quite put my finger on it.
Received a 4. I can either try harder and hope for better next time, or leave.
L61 SDET (1.5 year at that lvl)
Bucket: 1
Merit: 5.25% + 8% for R&D
StockToBase: ~3.5%
Bonus: 18% (16K)
Stock Award: 180% (11K)
Base: 92K
New Base: 109K
My numbers look good and I cannot complain too much.
But I keep thinking it's too slow on the promotion side, I'm tired to wait 2 years between promotions. Started 5 years ago at 59. Three gold stars, 3 times out of 5 in the top 20% in performance reviews.
It upsets me to think it'll take me 2-3 more years to be at the same level than some senior idiots in my group (somewhere in Bing).
Is it uncommon to be promoted after 1.5 year? Or am I smoking too much?
L64
Bucket 4
merit 1.05%
R&D increase 5.00%
stock $1.5K
bonus: 5% of base
review stock $12K
I had a great offer from a competitor going into the review. The preview hints in June indicated I would get a 3. When the 4 came in email at 10:30pm the night before my review meeting I went in the next day with a signed resignation letter. In exchange for the review results I handed my boss a signed resignation. It freaked him out. I'm happy to leave.
My new place is hiring.
Got a 5. Can't say it wasn't a long time coming, although it felt like my lead wrote the review AFTER he got the rating & adjusted it with the appropriate level of gloom and doom.
Mini,
We should start adding "age range" to the tradition of sharing review numbers. For myself I always received at or above expectation awards until I reached 40, then it went downhill.
"Received a 4. I can either try harder and hope for better next time, or leave."
It's not going to get better next time. Guaranteed.
4 means that a majority of your senior management doesn't think you're worth thinking about, and they don't believe you'll play a part in Microsoft's future.
what's the real story on Simon Witts. Burnout?
L64 IEB, individual contributor
Rating: 4
R&D bump
Bonus: 6k and change
Stock: 12k
New base: 140k and change
Boss gave me a drive-by as a heads-up, so I don't have the exact numbers.
Like many others have reported, this review came as a total shock after what I've frequently been told by senior management was a very strong year. Manager said he submitted me as a 2. Told throughout the year by many in my org that I was doing fantastic work. Asked for feedback on how I could improve, answer was "just keep doing what you're doing".
In my drive-by review manager mentioned something about "your scope wasn't quite big enough for your level, but I understand that's not your problem." Yeah, buddy? Then how about you take the review score. I held-up my part of the bargain -- I did awesome work and held you accountable to tell me how I was tracking each week -- and my management team blew it.
I'm over 40, and I think "your scope wasn't quite big enough for your level" sounds like a coded message of "we pay you too much and want to replace you with someone younger." I'm taking to an employment attorney next week to see if all the "you're doing great, don't change a thing" e-mail I have is enough to put a case together.
I shouldn't be angry considering how asinine I know the company is, but I'm still pissed enough to talk to a lawyer. I really hate Microsoft, but don't want to leave until I figure out if I can squeeze some "cash milk" from the threat of a legit EEOC claim.
DevDiv
L 61 -> 62
Bucket: 3
Merit 2.5%
Promo 5%
R&D 8%
Bonus $10,000
Stock $7,000
So many of you are emotionally devastated by your review scores, or by being laid off, etc. What a pathetic lack of confidence. Why do you care what a faceless multinational corporation thinks of you, especially one that's mired in bureaucracy and is failing in the marketplace?
Damn right.
Amazing how many emotionally charged words are used here: "destroyed my life", "i'm not appreciated", "I deserve more", "depressed".
What is this, a beauty contest for 15 year olds?
Just keep sucking that delicious cash milk and shut up already. It would probably make you less defensive, more likable, and you'd get more milk flowing from the teat.
And to the L65 guy who thinks there's $30K left on the table. I know it's a metaphor, but not the best choice. The table is empty, someone else took it.
L62
Last review: E20 (was L61 at the time)
This review: 3
Bonus: 10%
Merit: 2.4%
New base: just over $118k
I think it's odd to go from E20 to 3, and of course the manager feels the need to explain, etc. but I am an adult and I realize that life is not fair.
That said, for the first time I am seriously looking outside of MSFT because I fully understand that today's 3's are tomorrow 4's (or even 5's) and things can change very quickly, mainly depending on your manager and your org.
You **must** look out for yourself, which means always keeping your eyes open for another opportunity and NEVER, EVER believing your manager, no matter what he says (and apparently, given these posts, you should definitely never believe a manager who says you are doing well... they are only setting you up for disappointment).
I'm not bitter, just realistic. And I would advise everyone else to polish their resumes as well. (Even if you got a 1 or a 2, because I've seen first hand that an E20 can change to a mediocre review with just one reorg).
How about collectively filing a lawsuit and getting the entire HR team fired? How do you go about it? Anyone with PR contact in Wall St Journal and such?
They need to read this.
Collecting manager feedback. Send email to: theworstmanagers@gmail.com. Your information is confidential.
Feedback will be available at:
theworstmanagers.com.
That was the infinitely superior Godfather 1, son.
Sheesh.
To all the posters enquiring about whether they can decline to sign their review.
Yes. Last I heard, Microsoft was not yet firing staff for practicing that simple form of civil disobedience.
However, what does it accomplish? It tees off your management chain because they like to track the number of completed (signed) reviews by team and managers look poor when they have reviews pending at and past the deadline.
When I did declined to sign, it sent an "I am displeased" signal, which is about the best result one can hope for. This was interpreted different ways depending on how the political winds were blowing.
It's a risky thing to do, given the possible down side. But I did it as a point of integrity. I've "owned" bad reviews at other organizations before, but in this case, I couldn't own it. I was at the top of my game, at the top of a high-performing team, and I knew that few others in the division equalled my results that year. I stood up and defended my accomplishments as best I could. Then I sat back down and got back to work, and let the Powers That Be figure out how to close out review season with my review unsigned.
Got a 5.
That's not of concern to me. What I'd really rather know is whether I should use a noose, take an overdose of pills, or shoot myself in the head.
Driving a car over a cliff just seems so cliched.
To the The guy from Office Intl.
The fair system you propose is what Ms implemented as contractors ; A and V-. I like the idea of being a contractor though.
Level 60, (industry hire first year)
Bucket 2,
No promo,
Suprised at the 2, was expecting a 3. Most of my career has been in lamp shops and I am not entirely gung ho about pretending our tech or process is on par with what is being done outside in the non msft world. I've also been thrown a couple of unexpected curveballs and been left standing with some unworkable projects.
Meanwhile I am happy with the new base, six figures after rebase along with a decent stock and cash bonus. At the same time I am a little annoyed at not recieving a promo.
I've been firmly in the senior/lead level for the previous few years outside of microsoft. I am frequently asked for technical advice from coworkers at higher levels, and I have turned down dozens of senior and lead interview requests since starting from sales force, linkedin, amazon, netflix, disney and other local and valley area companies.
At this point i'm starting to be concerned that it is going to be harder to obtain senior/lead level work outside of microsoft due to staying at this level too long, and its going to be harder to find work in general thanks to non transferability of work items and techonlogies we work with. Which has me tempted to start giving postivie responses to future interview requests outside of the company.
In all honesty I would rather get paid less and be in an environment where people work together instead of only looking out for number one.
Couldn't agree more.
Just when you thought you'd never hear another word about the DOJ anti-trust case against Microsoft. Mini or anyone else, do you have any more details on this: http://www.zdnet.co.uk/news/compliance/2011/08/22/microsoft-and-us-sue-for-return-of-antitrust-documents-40093741/
Apparently the Technical Committee itself asked some of its consultants to return highly confidential information at the end of the consultants' engagement, and the answer was no. Now come on guys, if it is not yours, give it back. This is not a difficult concept to grasp.
What do these guys have, or think they have, and why are they refusing to return it to Microsoft?
One other startling piece of text in the legal document indicates that the information obtained by the Technical Committee cannot be used in any other judicial proceeding. I'd never heard that before. How did the Plaintiffs agree to that provision? Did Microsoft load the meeting room coffee machine with decaf that morning?
L64 promo to L65, but bucket 3. Not in R&D, so my total comp actually declined from the prior year (when I was E/20). Given all the talk about how this promo is such a big jump, the rewards just don't add up, particularly with stock based on prior level rather than new level.
I smell a RAT! Didn't anyone notice that the review change announcement came out two months before the annual review needed to be written (ended)? The more I think about this. the more I know that everyone in the company got screwed.
When you make a decision that affects employees career performances, you make the announcement right after the last annual review, Instead, this was shown two months before the annual reviews ended (May).
Telling employees that the next review will be based on "how" you achieved your commitments two months before the review cycle is over is a little late for those to go back and do a better, efficient job in working at their commitment.
First pay increase in awhile will be a large % increase, and the following years will be lower. They didn't want everyone to compete for this large % increase. In other words, the playing field was not level when this announcement came out. Everyone was screwed either way.
Ask yourself, "would you have began this review cycle differently had you known you were now going to be evaluated on "how" you achieved your commitments?" I'm sure you'd say, "yes."
I get my numbers today, and I have prepared myself that I am not going to get what I expected. A few weeks ago, we had a business division meeting to discuss this review cycle. When the manager disclosed, "We had a challenge getting the numbers balanced and some good performers were placed in the 4/5 bucket," my first thought was "you just disclosed that a lot of people got screwed this review cycle."
Lisa Brummel did a nice job in screwing us all by disclosing this two months before the review cycle ends!
I thought bonuses were paid on 8/31. What's the deal? Nothing showed up.
For most of you out there whining about getting a 4 or 5, here is a hint: You probably deserved it.
The 1,2 and 3 buckets comprise 80% of the company. If you can't make the top 80%, then you need a wake-up call and hopefully this is it.
My apologies to the small percentage of outliers that actually got screwed.
L65
Bucket: 2
Bonus: $48k
New Salary: 158k
Was told I killed it this year. Traveled a lot and over-dlelivered to customers (internal and external.) but, a promotion in mid-cycle and joining a new group pushed me down.
At this level/band I think I'm just going to do 3 work for a year and find another job.
"Time to get some better-performing friends. If you're at Microsoft and not willing to learn how to play the game, you are a 4. If you work harder than everyone else that doesn't learn the game, you might get a 3."
I do hope you are kidding right? Sadly this is so true, and sadly, anyone that accepts 'game playing' as a way to make a living is just, well, sad. Run, you still have time in this life to enjoy it.
Have you guys seen anyone from corp HR reporting his/her perf result? I am curious about the HR org, which does not seem to deliver any product (except a new review system). Anyone from HR or anyone knows how HR sets commitment and reviews themselves? Do they have another HR onsite to moderate their own review and calibration? As a side note, I found there are so many senior managers and directors in HR org that don't have even a single report or only have a single chain of managers. Do we really need so many managers and directors in HR? Anyone interested in this could check it out at http://who, our internal site. Many thanks to this site so that I could know this :-)
Windows SDE
L60 -> L61
Bucket: 2
Merit: 3.9%
Promo: 8%
R&D: 12%
Bonus: $10,845
Stock: $5,850
Base pay: $83K -> $105K
I've been at Microsoft for almost three years now. I think I got pretty damn lucky with my manager; he is very supportive and encouraging, but also critical of my faults and gives me specific feedback during our 1x1 meetings, which is awesome.
I'm currently looking for a job elsewhere, partly because I'm not optimistic about the future of the company, and partly because I don't think the company culture is good for my long-term growth. I will say that overall, I have enjoyed my time at Microsoft and don't regret working here.
The reason I am writing this post is the following.
I believe it is time for the company to think of an additional employee performance review system in addition to the current one. My idea is:
You think somebody in power might care what you think. That's adorable.
This "ranking" review system was invented by (or at least evangelized mainly by) Steve Ballmer's hero Jack Welch. So it's obviously perfect and will always apply to all Microsoft employees, at least until Ballmer is gone.
"Does anyone know what is automatic salary raise when moving from Redmond to California. This is for 64 level dev."
My friend has told me that it's around 10-11%.
But good luck finding a reasonably priced house in that area.
L60
Bucket: 2
Merit Increase: 1.37%
R&D Increase: 5%
Bonus: 13%
Stock: 124%
New base: 87k
"Stock: 180% of L62 target, (sucks!!! it should be L63 target, but HR secretly changed the rule this year)"
HR didn't change the rules, they "fixed the glitch".
Your bonus has always been based on your past years salary. Your stock award should have been based on your previous years level as well.
However, there was a 'glitch' where HR was calculating stock based off of the new level. This year, they simply 'fixed the glitch'.
Hmmm...Sounds a little like "Office Space"
------
BOB SLYDELL
Here's a peculiar one. Milton Waddams.
DOM
Who's he?
BOB
You know, squirrely looking guy, mumbles a lot.
DOM
Oh.
BOB SLYDELL
We can't find a record of him being a current employee here.
BOB PORTER
I looked into it more deeply and I found what happened was he got layed
off about five years ago and no one ever told him about it. But through
a glitch in Payroll, he still gets a paycheck. I went ahead and fixed
the glitch.
BILL
Great.
DOM
So, um, Milton has been let go.
BOB SLYDELL
Just a second there, Professor. We, uh, we fixed the glitch. So he
won't be receiving a paycheck anymore. So it'll just work itself out
naturally.
No, my work is interesting. The work I do kept me with Microsoft. I also worked for several other companies. By far, Microsoft has a better system. I am not saying that the system is perfect. Indeed, it has many flaws. People are still trying to fix it. If you know a better system, how does it look like? Why is it better?
In the other companies I've worked for, managers were given a budget for raises and bonuses and distributed it as they saw fit. No forced curve, everybody to my knowledge at least got a COL raise every year, and certainly nobody got managed out if they were doing their jobs reasonably well. A flat org structure and title system means minimal politics--you get your first promotion after ~15 years and then you're a full-time manager of ~30 people (multiple disciplines). Focus was on making high-quality products.
Microsoft is set up like some kind of sick video game with its forced ranking, disproportionate rewards, and multitude of "levels." Everybody has to focus on playing politics so they can level up every year. Great if you want to whip your employees into a high-stress, cannibalistic frenzy, but not so great for making products.
Does anyone know what happened with/to Simon?
Stop complaining about "toxic culture".
About real toxic culture:
"U.S. Probes Oracle Dealings
Justice Department, SEC Examining Software Developer's Relationships With Governments in Africa
"
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111903352704576540841634820096.html?mod=WSJ_hp_LEFTWhatsNewsCollection#articleTabs%3Darticle
who's the idiot that keeps posting conspiracy theories about "Older 50" crowd? If you are over 50, at a <L65 level, and still working you're doing it wrong and are a low performer
L65
3
$53k bonus
new salary: $164k
Was A/70 last year as L65 and made more money. my approach has been to half ass it and get an average award...it worked. My quality of life is great. I'm home by 4 or 5 at the latest, get to play with my kids on the lake with our new boat, and saved enough to quit and say "fuck you" at any time. I really can't complain and feel bad for those who are not in a similar position.
L64
Bucket: 3
Merit Increase: 2.55%
R&D Increase: 5%
Bonus: 10%
Stock: 100% of target
New base = ~$148k
The numbers are exactly as previously published by HR.
Did anyone notice a difference between your new salary and what the HRWeb "model your new compensation" tool told you a few months ago? I wish the tool was still up, unless I misunderstood what I originally saw.
The HR tool showed based on my current salary @L63, I would be at ~128k if I got a 3, ~130 for a 2, and ~131 for a 1. I got a 3, but my new salary is 123k, so I'm scratching my head why the tool said more.
Ideas?
does anyone know what the deal is with the "stock to base" amount?
Is that a one time bump?
What about next year.... does it go away?
Is it paid out in a one time pmt or broken out for a year (or gasp! even longer)?
L# 63 promo to 64
Bucket 2
Stock to Base $4K
Merit % 3.9%
Promo 6% No R&D
Bonus (CBI) 22K
Stock 22K (130%)
New Base from $105K to $120K
It is demoralizing to have to sign a review that has lies and have a manager whom says it doesn't matter what the words are.
I know the cash bonuses and raises aren't available until the 15th, but are stock awards showing up on http://stock/ yet?
I haven't had my AR yet, and I haven't seen a change to my stock awards page - not sure whether this means I've got a 5, or whether they just haven't come in yet.
Could someone with a non-5 score check for me?
Does anyone know what happened with/to Simon?
Yes. He got fired.
>>I thought bonuses were paid on >>8/31. What's the deal? Nothing >>showed up.
Last year bonus showed up on 14th September. I guess same this year.
"Does anyone know what is automatic salary raise when moving from Redmond to California. This is for 64 level dev."
My friend has told me that it's around 10-11%.
But good luck finding a reasonably priced house in that area.
Its actually 9% the last time I asked my HR contact when I was contemplating moving. You can ask them and they'll tell you.
* L65
* Bucket 2
* Merit+RD adds to 10% salary increase
* Bonus 26%
* Stock 130%
* My overall impression: this new review system is not a good improvement over the previous one for evaluating and motivating technical employees. Time to try a v4.0.
I would be very happy with the package if not told that somehow, the company thinks that 20% of the people in my band are performing better than me in my division. And I'm not exactly impressed by being in the know that managers, grand managers and uncle managers had to fight hard to save a few 1s and 2s for themselves.
What it is hard to take: I like my daily work and colleagues, and would probably stay if I somehow saw Microsoft working towards a more well-thought review system. But seeing this fight for visibility year after year is dreadful. And it gets worse seeing that some colleagues are having even worse stories to tell their families. If this was a normal year, I could probably sit down and wait. But with recruiters knocking at the door like they are doing now, I don't see myself staying for another year.
my review was: "you did awesome, your teammates threw you under the bus, here's your 3"
i did have quite the laugh at how bad http://career was chugging, looks like chaos abound
btw did anyone else get cold called by amazon today? it's like someone over there knows it was pissed off 3's day
what's the real story on Simon Witts. Burnout?
Apparently he just came to his Witts end.
Quote:
"Got a 5.
That's not of concern to me. What I'd really rather know is whether I should use a noose, take an overdose of pills, or shoot myself in the head.
Driving a car over a cliff just seems so cliched"
I really hope the person who posted the above is joking... but if you're not, please know that the 5 does *not* define you as a person.
You are more than just a number on a stupid review writeup. You can work anywhere you want, including for yourself. Do not let this ruin your life, and certainly don't commit suicide over it.
Ex-softy manager here. First of all, I’m so grateful for not experiencing what many folks here had. I’m still impressed by the number of people in this forum that appear emotionally broken when their expectations were not met. You need to ask yourself why you’re still so emotionally involved when it was discussed so many times. Obviously there are trolls, but when people say “toxic”, “unfair”, “screwed” so many times, then at least expect the possibility. MSFT is very large on perception and not the factual data. So, here’s my perception that led me to leaving the company on my terms: I believe integrity is one of very important parts of the character. When I saw my peers becoming ecstatic that they found fault in other teams vs just getting together on the problem, when I saw the highest ranking manager during stack ranks moving “his” people to bucket 1 without any justification and HR kept silent in the room, when HR forces the curve and solid performers suffer, when conditions are created that folks in senior bands are helped out and company exploits H-1B and brings senior people from abroad to L59/L60 positions, when some manages abuse their teams with “stack rank” stick… tipping point for me was when I was told to “own the message” to one of the persons in my org which I did not believe in. I was a high performer, number of E/20’s, GS and other awards; I knew how to “work” my manager without resorting to brownnosing, but all took too much of the shrinking good side of me. Even though I understood what’s going on, the price was way too high. I polished my resume and found a much better opportunity. Compensation wise I doubled (I know sounds really troll’ish, but when I saw the offer I could not believe it myself). But the main thing is my new team, no backstabbing, people work together; we get direct feedback from our customers that are thrilled with the features that we put out.
MSFT model is to rotate people, keep expenses for workforce in check and try to stay competitive by trying finding good people for cheap (read H-1B). I think this strategy gets the company nowhere. MSFT is becoming irrelevant. People don’t talk about Microsoft; there is no “buzz”. After I left, many friends followed, many smart people are leaving. There are companies in the outside world that pay better and don’t have that MSFT review BS. Any businessman would want to get the best of resources (s)he has. MSFT does not get the best from its people – it clearly shows that something is wrong.
First it’s scary to jump the ship, but after a couple of weeks you kick your ass for not jumping earlier. Build-up some confidence and explore what’s out there!
"Simon Witts leaving Microsoft, that's a big change especially after as it comes less than a year after Bob Mu... This is screaming for a comment. What says you mini?"
Don't know about Mini, but I'd say good riddance re Witts. He was an arrogant prick. BobMu on the other hand was a big loss.
You know what I love? That, from vendor POV, you are such an easy mark ... shooting fish in a barrel. Enjoy your "reviews". See you next in FY12, FY13++.
"That was the infinitely superior Godfather 1, son.
Sheesh."
I made that post. You are indeed right, and I stand corrected. Wrong versioning :)
L62
Bucket: 3
Merit: 2.55%
R&D: 5%
Stock Adjust: 7%
Bonus: 10%
Stock: 100%
I have been at the company for 5 years, always 70/Exceed. Last year was a good review and even with the stock adjust it was much less than last year. Disappointed in a 3, but told all new transfers in my org were 3 or lower.
For most of you out there whining about getting a 4 or 5, here is a hint: You probably deserved it.
The 1,2 and 3 buckets comprise 80% of the company. If you can't make the top 80%, then you need a wake-up call and hopefully this is it.
My apologies to the small percentage of outliers that actually got screwed.
You got it backwards. Only a small percentage of outliers actually deserve 1's and 1+'s. Those are the truly brilliant, who can get those ratings without gaming the system.
If you think only a "small percentage of outliers" got screwed, you either haven't been at Microsoft very long, or you're too naive to understand how the system really works. "Luck" plays a huge part. Good managers, no reorgs or team moves, momentum, and a bunch of other factors that you have little control over.
There is really no difference between 3's, 4's and 5's. Depending on the above "luck" you could end up with a 3 or a 5. And there's not that much of a difference between *most* 1-2's, and the 3-5's either. Other than the truly brilliant, what most 1's and 2's are good at is playing well with the system.
That would be fine if the system produces great products and success for Microsoft. Unless you're still drinking the kool aid, you should know that most of our success is due to luck (DOS for IBM, Windows over OS/2, and the rest is history), not "hiring and retaining the best" or any of that crap.
Unfortunately most of our SLT and senior management are still drinking the kool aid themselves. After all, this is the system that produced them, and of course they believe they created Microsoft's success (not luck), so they infer, the system must be good. This basic incompetence has perpetuated itself, and if it hadn't been destroying careers and lives, it would actually be funny.
So let's all drink that cash cow milk while it lasts. Who knows, with a little "luck", that could last a while longer.
L64
Bucket 4
merit 1.05%
R&D increase 5.00%
stock $1.5K
bonus: 5% of base
review stock $12K
I had a great offer from a competitor going into the review. The preview hints in June indicated I would get a 3. When the 4 came in email at 10:30pm the night before my review meeting I went in the next day with a signed resignation letter. In exchange for the review results I handed my boss a signed resignation. It freaked him out. I'm happy to leave.
My new place is hiring.
This is so hilarious, a job well done.
To L64 poster on Tuesday, August 30, 2011 8:50:00 PM: way to go! Brilliant execution. Can you please publish URL of your new company? To the poster that is bashing on people over 50: a) you will be there soon enough and just may end up in the same situation, b) in our org (in SMSG) older people (esp. non-minority) that went above and beyond level requirements with external publications, EBC/customer contacts, conferences, etc... got really low ratings. There is a correlation between the age and UNFAIR review scores for people that are perceived to be at lower risk to sue. If anyone has a good law firm that deals with discrimination cases in the work place can you please share contact info? Particularly if it has a history of success in getting out of court settlements.
Most of my career has been in lamp shops [...]
Heh, heh. You left "lamp shops" for "the dark side" ;-)
One day I decided to do absolutely nothing for as long as I could. Most of the day I spent playing chess (Shredder). I attended mandatory meetings and responded enthusiastically to idiotic emails, but I produced absolutely no work output worth speaking of. This continued for about 4 months until I got a job with another group.
Shareholders would be annoyed to read this.
Your fellow workers don't care, as they are busy just trying to survive the political machinations in the gulag.
Management want to find out who you are so that they can promote you.
"Mini,
We should start adding "age range" to the tradition of sharing review numbers. For myself I always received at or above expectation awards until I reached 40, then it went downhill."
Ditto.
Here's one for all your financial whizzes and conspiracy theorists...
MSFT closed today (8/31) at 26.60. That's $2 higher than earlier this week.
2011 stock awards are $ amounts, converted to shares by dividing by the closing price on 8/31. If the price had stayed the same since Monday's close, we'd have 8% more shares.
Even accounting for how the Nasdaq composite has performed since Monday's close, we're still out >6%.
Is this just coincidence or are there darker forces at work? Can we figure out if historically, MSFT has hit local maxima on the award converstion dates, e.g. 8/31/2010, 8/31/2009?
Comparing notes in our group:
Group Type: Dev Organization
Group Size: 20
40% of group got 4 or 5
40% of group over 40.
Work in Redmond
PUM reports to GM outside U.S.
Why do I think GM played favorite with people outside U.S. It doesn't fit the percentages for the model.
"In the other companies I've worked for, managers were given a budget for raises and bonuses and distributed it as they saw fit. No forced curve, everybody to my knowledge at least got a COL raise every year, and certainly nobody got managed out if they were doing their jobs reasonably well. A flat org structure and title system means minimal politics--you get your first promotion after ~15 years and then you're a full-time manager of ~30 people (multiple disciplines). Focus was on making high-quality products.
Microsoft is set up like some kind of sick video game with its forced ranking, disproportionate rewards, and multitude of "levels." Everybody has to focus on playing politics so they can level up every year. Great if you want to whip your employees into a high-stress, cannibalistic frenzy, but not so great for making products.
" <--- Is this at Google?
How are review systems at Google, Facebook, Amazon? Any links?
L61 SDET(.5 years at lvl)
Bucket: 3
Merit: 2.55%
Promo: 8%
Stock to base: 3.53%
Bonus: $8836 (10%)
Stock: $6500
New Base: $106,576
L64 - 4
New team, new manager, new review system. Former team - was @ E/20 range at mid-year before changing teams.
9 months of work @ E/20 + 3 months in new team and I get the sacrificial "4".
Numbers based on posted hr formula for my level/bucket.
Roughly 10% total salary increase with marginal bonus/stock.
who's the idiot that keeps posting conspiracy theories about "Older 50" crowd? If you are over 50, at a less than L65 level, and still working you're doing it wrong and are a low performer
I see it differently. That person is only "doing it wrong" if they WANT a position with L65 duties. Some people prefer to come to work and do a certain type of work, which is not L65 work, but is still technically challenging and of a nature that allows them to learn and grow techncial skills every day. If you enjoy working as an IC in your discipline as opposed to a manager, there are fewer opportunities to advance and remain an IC. This would result in your level remaining lower, for example.
It's thinking like yours that pushes capable contributors - in many cases people who are more capable at their jobs than their 28 year old replacement would be, due to experience - out.
Hmmm...Sounds a little like "Office Space"
I love that movie, supposedly based, in part, on Intel and their "TP Reports."
It certainly could be Microsoft too. One of my favorite lines is: "You know what, Bob, I've got five managers, FIVE." In the case of Microsoft five levels of management is an underestimate which is why the company is a slowly sinking ship.
Speaking of Jack Welsh, is there a Mini-ge somewhere? Do they have the same toxic culture, or is that a Microsoft innovation?
Bonus question: how do incompetent, destructive CEOs manage to maintain stellar reputations?
The expression of shock on managers face said it all and was delightful to me. Counter-offers came but I was done.
What's the typical counter offer at MS consist of... little more base, stock, maybe one time retention bonus?
How frequent is a promotion offered as part of a counter-offer?
I'm a long-time softee but have had a few external people contact me recently.
I'd say it is a function of how critical you are to your current org, your skill-set, and the industry demand for those skills.
I was offered a spot 10% raise (indicating I was not all that valuable) and promised more at mid-year promo if I stayed. And we all know how Microsoft managers love to keep their promises ;)
Some managers in the larger org I barely knew tried to book meetings with me to see if I would consider one of their positions. That came as a surprise to me.
The competition offered way more $ & stock. The fun work environment came as an added bonus :)
L60
Bucket: 1
Merit Increase: Won't share
R&D Increase: 12%
Bonus: Won't Share
Stock: Won't Share
New base = >129K
L64
Bucket 2
Merit 3.6% / R&D 5%
Bonus $20K
Stock $31K
Seems like a place where everyone gets to vent out fustration of their review. After reading all comments I certainly got worried about myself even though I had a very good year. There are times I read good information about how HR and MS works but its hard to sift it out between all the negativity here. I have promised myself not to come here again.
62
2
merit- 3.9%
R&D 5%
Stock to base - 7K
bonus and stock = 13% & 130%.
Everything exactly as HR tool said and I am happy. I worked hard for 1 but caliberation is a game and we need to believe in our manager that he can play it right. If not quit, no point in whining.
who's the idiot that keeps posting conspiracy theories about "Older 50" crowd? If you are over 50, at a < L65 level, and still working you're doing it wrong and are a low performer
Looks like HR has joined the conversation...
Reviews have always been political. If you want to know what you're worth, you should be regularly (at least once a year) seeking offers from external companies to see what you're worth on the open market. Only then will you be able to assess whether you are getting a 'fair' shake at MS and only then will you have ownership over your fate at MS (i.e. whether you can get a counter-offer to stay and equalize any perceived inequity) or be at peace with what you have.
Done! Sold my freshly vested stock before beloved CEO can say "blah blah blah". I don't expect him to quit anytime soon, so why would the stock go up? Besides, reading comments here is just depressing. Nice team spirit, Microsoft management. You deserve the highest grade (5 is more than 1, right). Forwarding the link to this page to a friend who was contemplating applying here for a job. Will let him make up his own mind.
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