Some Quick Quips - Yahoo, #86, and MSPoll
Just some quick quips:
yahoo... Sorry, I can't get up the enthusiasm to put the exclamation point into Yahoo anymore. So this past week had a number of voluntary and involuntary exits from Yahoo. Mr. Yang calls out, "White Knight? Anyone? Anyone?" and the Yahoo board gets restless.
An interesting bit comes from Joe Rosenberg in Barron's. The summary? Microsoft bid for Yahoo makes no sense. Some interesting snippets:
"It's a bad refection on Ballmer that he's willing to pay a ridiculous price for Yahoo. Microsoft is not going to earn anything like a reasonable rate of return in Yahoo," Rosenberg was quoted as saying.
:
Asked if it wasn't a strategic necessity for Microsoft to buy Yahoo, Rosenberg said: "I don't buy that. Yahoo would significantly dilute Microsoft's returns.
"Ballmer is a great operating man but he lacks financial acumen. He ought to be thinking more of Microsoft employees who own a lot of Microsoft stock and have nothing to show for it in many years. If the stock doesn't start doing better, Microsoft will lose good people."
Thank goodness someone is actually thinking that employees would react to the stock price, because it seems to be a foreign concept to our leadership. I can't make jokes about Golden Handcuffs anymore because most people at Microsoft don't know what the hell I'm talking about. I have not seen Microsofties so loose in their sockets since I joined years upon years ago.
Agent 86: Would you believe... that Microsoft has dropped down to #86 within the Fortune Best Places to Work survey? That's down from #50 in 2007 and #42 in 2006. Like a rock. In a bad way. And who is #1 for two years in a row? Grab that chair and give it a big effen toss in the air to Google! Toot! They get bigger and they're still #1.
(Oh, and Yahoo is attached to our hip at #87. I guess we're more alike than we knew.)
LisaB tackled the #86 issue this past week. Kinda. But I've got to wonder: if you sat down a bunch of hard-working, valued Microsofties in one room, and executive leadership in the other, and put down some simple questions like, "What would make employees value working at Microsoft even more?" I'm pretty sure the answers would have a wide gap between them.
The return of the towels was a symbolic admission to stupidity. The Bread and Circuses of various subsequent benefits doesn't align with what Microsofties need to be obviously valued and to have a great career at Microsoft that is satisfying. What would you want to see Microsoft do about addressing being a great place to work?
My #1 request has got to be to make Microsofties mobile. Intent to interview was a great first step. Now, just let people interview. If they get the job, their management learns they need to start a transition plan. Leaders might actually start managing their teams as if retention matters.
Right now, given Mid-Year Career Discussions, my #2 request is to boot all the friggin' tools and go back to the Microsoft Word form, all a part of streamlining career management at Microsoft. We're about to spend a couple of months in tool hell, have a big CSP codified discussion that may or may not align with the reality of your group, and then in three months do it all over again for the major review cycle. I seem to spend my life in calibration meetings and managing tools and asking HR-IT to fix bungled work-flow and whacked-out permissions. I need a "I'd rather be shipping features that make money" license plate holder. As do many of my team members.
My #3 is too intangible to tackle here, but it's more around gearing Microsoft to be a team-focused company culture, not the lone-rock-star-wolf. Yes, still reward the rock-star contributors, but also reward the teams that produce great results that they've committed to, and punish and don't reward dysfunctional teams that don't deliver.
Oh, and return the old ESPP and up the 401k match to be something stellar. Worried about cost? Headcount reduction works wonders.
MSPoll: Oh, and if you have ideas but don't feel like sharing them here, you can at least achieve some catharsis in writing your thoughts up in the upcoming poll. Maybe when it goes online we can find a few questions to hammer on to make a (useless?) point. I can tell you, with the Yahoo acquisition still in play and the impact that it's had to the stock and the reputation of Microsoft, I've got to say the question addressing "this company is headed in the right direction" should take a nosedive.
P.S. I'm going to mention Steven Sinofsky here (which I've avoided a lot, although I'm a great fan, because every time I think of typing something about him I hear in my mind batteries clattering down a wooden staircase and then imagine his angry, disappointed face appearing out of the shadows at the top of the stairs... scary stuff): so does this mean that Sinofsky is destined to be Mini-ized? Hmm.
P.P.S. Some executives moved around last week. One surprise departure, otherwise everything else seemed to have been whispered about for a while. Mr. Ballmer's email was interesting in that it seemed to imply that there was a whiff of accountability in the air with what was going on. Just a whiff.
166 comments:
Well, after being at MSFT for a time and season I am leaving. No sour grapes on either side. MSFT is a great company with great potential. I left because I took on a role that I realized after taking it wasn't right for me or my family. Despite expressing this to my manager and patiently working through it for months, I was given no choice but to stick it out for 12 more months, or leave. I had an excellent internal opportunity open up but I couldn't interview; the boss wouldn't approve. Now, it's not that I was a Limited Kim in my past reviews; I have always been a stellar performer having reached the top of the stack (4.0) in a high-powered team. I was stuck and I couldn't go anywhere but out. That may be good or bad depending on your vantage point; from mine, it is bittersweet. I will enjoy the freedom that comes from being on the outside but will dearly miss working with such great people. Being completely frank, I think if Microsoft gets Yahoo I will be glad I left when I did.
"P.P.S. Some executives moved around last week."
Talk about promotions. The same day of those announcements I saw a brand-spanking new Mercedes CL65 AMG ( http://www.mbusa.com/models/main.do?modelCode=CL65 ) turn left into Red-West. After I found out the price tag (almost 200 large!), I connected the dots and thought "Hmm ... wonder who that was!"
Interesting is that in Europe we seem to do a lot better in the Great Place to Work surveys. Lots of countries are in the top 5 , some even made it to number 1 a couple of times. How come we never hear from this?
Yeah, a whiff of accountability, maybe, in everywhere except for Office where every VP got a bump, in the midst of a grueling ship cycle (a.k.a. as "oppress your devs into writing legal docs"). That seemed odd and out of place and honestly, really looked like a massive payola by Steve to try to solidify his base as he declines into risky territory with this acquisition.
You didn't mention pay as being a priority for the company to change. I agree with your list, but still feel (and the comments in response to Lisa's InsideMS post bore this out) that most people are hurting pay-wise. Let's fix that right away.
Riddle me this - how does Knook, VP of the Mobile division casually saunter on over to Vodaphone which not only does business with Symbian, but is also a member of the Linux Mobile Foundation? Non-Compete clause anyone?
[Completely OT]
Does anyone know if Microsoft has something similar to this?
Management has been sniffing a glue called query share. They think a point of query share is worth over a billion dollars and are willing to pay Yahoo that much even though Live Search has never pulled down more than $30 million for each point in query share.
Management would never dream of putting together a pot of money that rewarded a team millions for each point of query share even though it would be more cost effective.
The Messenger folks are feeling very much like chopped liver. Billions for Yahoo Messenger but many of Live Messenger's key people haven't been able to buy a new car in years.
I think Rosenberg has it right on the money. Ballmer is making a big mistake, but then he has never been held accountable. Not for the Vista fiasco, or the MSN mess, ... you can go on and on.
Goog luck guys, life is going to be interesting whether or not Yahoo takeover happens.
Many senior executives have moved in the past years. People like Jim Alchin and Brian Valentine were key to Microsoft. Now even Jeff Raikes lost his faith in this company. With the departure of many other executives this week and Bill Gates leaving the premises, this seems to sound the bell that the ship is sinking.
Steve Ballmer never did any good to the employees so maybe his departure could save Microsoft in the end?
86 isn't a bad number. Remember Maxwell Smart?
Many senior executives have moved in the past years. People like Jim Alchin and Brian Valentine were key to Microsoft. Now even Jeff Raikes lost his faith in this company. With the departure of many other executives this week and Bill Gates leaving the premises, this seems to sound the bell that the ship is sinking.
Steve Ballmer never did any good to the employees so maybe his departure could save Microsoft in the end?
People like Jim Alchin and Brian Valentine left the company in disgrace. They were key players in the early days, but they were unable to create an effective organization in the post-XP era and that's why Vista and the entire Windows org is the mess it is today. Jim was totally out of touch with reality -- I mean, the guy was *weird* and barely cogent half the time in the last few years -- and Brian was a dinosaur whose "if you leak this I will seek you out and cut off your head" blundering approach to management stopped being effective somewhere around 1998.
Change is good, and the shake-ups that are happening are long-overdue. We'll lose some good people, but we'll also hopefully lose a bunch of chaff.
I do agree with you about Steve, though -- he's a great salesman but a crummy CEO. Can't we find a CEO who at least gives the appearance of loving technology more than crushing his enemies?
This may be a hard message to hear, but the sad fact is that most of the good people have left microsoft a long time ago.
The people still roaming the halls in redmond are basically people who respond to/accept 40-60th percentile comp ratios and a great health plan. Nothing wrong with that but it's not the a list of the industry by any means.
There's lies, then there's Microsoft management lies:
http://valleywag.com/357831/did-microsoft-lie-about-top-execs-departure
With this kind of deception, what makes anyone think that we will get anything resembling the truth from MS exec's, much less accountability?
Anyone else wondering where the flurry of "Pay is fair - stop whining" comments are coming from?
Seems a bit suspicious.
Mini, I think if you read
http://paulbuchheit.blogspot.com/2008/02/most-import-thing-to-understand-about.html
and cogitate on it a bit, you might realize that Microsoft's offer to buy Yahoo demonstrates that Microsoft is thinking like a Valley startup for once. Microsoft has judged the market and determined that Yahoo has what's needed in this market climate. Is Microsoft correct? Is MarcA correct? Regardless, this is a new approach from Microsoft, which has seemed so ponderous in the past.
(Is Microsoft's poor reputation in the Valley entirely the fault of its leaders, or also the fault of its broader employee base?)
Anyone else wondering where the flurry of "Pay is fair - stop whining" comments are coming from?
Seems a bit suspicious.
I haven't seen many "pay is fair" comments, but I *have* seen a ton of "If you're so underpaid and you hate your job so much, why the heck are you still working there?" comments... I mean, it's not like tech jobs for skilled workers are hard to come by at the moment, so why are so many grossly under-paid people sticking around at Microsoft working on stuff they literally just next door?
A bit suspicious indeed, but perhaps not in the manner you suggest.
Anyone else wondering where the flurry of "Pay is fair - stop whining" comments are coming from?
Yeah, because nobody could possibly have a different opinion on pay from yours, right? All those poll results saying that most people are satisified were completely made up by management, right? Grow up.
I said it in there and I'll say it out here: the pay at MS is fair. If you disagree, hit the streets and go after what you think you really deserve.
My first time here to read your stuff. MM. I used to work for a large aerospace corp in LA. before moving to Japan.
Ummm. Nothing personal but I would definitely support your recommendation on the reward and encourage the small to med-sized team efforts. Listen there is lots of research already done on this.
Second, the comments here give me the impression that "rock star individualist philosophy is running out of control and running down morale. No proof just an impression from reading all the postings here.
further disclosure: One of My religious bond-mate in a house we shared, ran off and joined a 100% dependent outsource for MS projects. I have never liked MS since, until now.
Reading your blog gives me some hope that in some quarters there is hope. Just like China.....
regards from Japan.
Anyone else wondering where the flurry of "Pay is fair - stop whining" comments are coming from?
Seems a bit suspicious.
Well, I belong to the pay is fair camp, and no, there is nothing suspicious here.
I'm a Lvl 62 SDE, base salary is $98K, my stock awards this year should be around $7K (would have been closer to $10K, thanks Ballmer). I expect around 8% bonus, and with ESPP and company 401k match added in, my total compensation will be right around $120K.
In addition, we have the health plan, numerous partner and discount programs to take advantage of, 3 weeks paid vacation, 10 sicks days, a bunch more paid holidays, 2 personal days, not to mention a very flexible work schedule, and of course the Pro Club.
I came up with all this after reading all the complaints about people making 6 figures and it not being fair, etc. What world do you live in? I would dare anyone to tell me I can do better elsewhere (total package). Most of us make twice the national average, nearly twice the Puget Sound average, and I won't even mention how most us are in the top 1% (or less) when you factor in the rest of of the world. You can see for yourself at http://globalrichlist.com/ and maybe get some perspective, instead of thinking about why you're entitled to that 50-inch 1080p plasma TV or a new BMW, or whatever you think you deserve, but aren't getting because you're underpaid.
What is it going to take to please some of you morons?
Get a grip on reality, and every once in a while, think for all that you have, thank God, count your blessings, and remember that you're better off right now that 99.5% of the world.
anyone else notice amirm has gone from the GAL but is still on the VP web page?
No announcement. Nothing.
My #1 request has got to be to make Microsofties mobile. Intent to interview was a great first step. Now, just let people interview.
Yep. And the reason why that would be such a big step in making MSFT a better place to work? It would indicate the company was willing to treat employees like valuable people instead of like chattel serfs "owned" by their fuedal lords, I mean managers.
It's unfortunate that as the management ranks became less and less able to manage the day-to-day business, the company shifted the cultual balance of power more and more towards the managers.
Well, that's politics for you.
Get a grip on reality, and every once in a while, think for all that you have, thank God, count your blessings, and remember that you're better off right now that 99.5% of the world.
I actually agree with you, but it's worth pointing out that we are working for an extremely profitable company, and as such, should probably be better compensated. It does seem that a hugely disproportionate amount of the rewards go to those who do not necessarily merit them.
Of course, anyone complaining that they don't make enough money to survive in the Puget Sound area, has some serious financial management issues and should probably be shown the door. Yeah, yeah, piss and moan about property values, but get over yourselves already. We are all blessed working here; it's just that some are undeservedly blessed that gets many of us annoyed.
"Anyone else wondering where the flurry of "Pay is fair - stop whining" comments are coming from?
I wrote one of those comments on //insidems and no I don't work for HR, I'm a low level Eng. that thinks Microsoft pays OK when you consider total compensation & benefits + the stability of being employed at a company with 2 huge cash-cows (recession coming anyone?)
on the other hand I'm leaving the company in a few weeks out of total boredom with my job and low expectations of a career improvements at MS...
so there you have it, pay is good but the day to day job sucks big time
I agree with the posters wondering why so many unhappy, underpaid MS employees are still working at MS.
Lets try this...all those who fit the above criteria should start their next post as follows
"I'm underpaid and unhappy at MS but I haven't left because..."
That should at least give us some context.
I'm a Lvl 62 SDE, base salary is $98K, my stock awards this year should be around $7K (would have been closer to $10K, thanks Ballmer). I expect around 8% bonus, and with ESPP and company 401k match added in, my total compensation will be right around $120K.
Sure, I see how you're happy. Umm...I don't make anything close to $120k, total package or otherwise.
I get so tired of all these "You make twice the national average" type arguments. I sure don't make twice the national average for people in my field. Can't we compare apples to apples without being called whiners?
And the big points are always avoided in these comebacks, which is that the reason it feels unfair is that Joe down the hall is level two levels up and has half the responsibility. Oh, and was hired ten years later than you were, straight out of college. Getting pay equity within the company would go a long way toward easing people's pain at not getting even cost of living raises.
Clearly you're getting COLA and more, so of course you're happy. Does that mean that everyone else should be, who isn't in the same circumstance?
the sad fact is that most of the good people have left microsoft a long time ago.
The mediocre people who happened to finagle great stock options and write lousy code and design lousy UI retired. They were not great by any stretch of the imagination.
There are plenty of talented people held back by mediocre management.
"I actually agree with you, but it's worth pointing out that we are working for an extremely profitable company, and as such, should probably be better compensated."
Capitalism 101: That money does not belong to the employees, even if they're the ones who brought it in, it belongs to the shareholders.
There are plenty of valid arguments that MS employees should be paid more but that sure as hell isn't one of them.
>> Microsoft pays OK
For a family with two earners and a kid, decent life starts roughly at L61
>> leaving the company in a few weeks out of total boredom
Once the recession is (somewhat) over, that's exactly what I'm going to do. I just don't see the point of working here anymore.
Proxy vote rumored to have started.
Hold on...this will be ugly for all involved...except the lawyers and investment bankers/advisors who are once again laughing themselves to the bank.
"I'm underpaid and unhappy at MS but I haven't left because..."
I still have a few months of alimony left to pay, and the stability is important until that's done. All that said, I'm actively looking and if I can get someone to buy out this year's stock grant (and a portion of the next four years) then I'd be gone tomorrow.
As a 10 year veteran of MSFT who also came in as an industry hire, I get NO props. I have good reviews but been in level too long fighting against stupid process and politics. Getting things done and doing what's right for the customer don't count anymore and haven't for a long time. And for those of us who have experience and still believe that is the right thing to do...well, we're suffering.
So you can tell me I'm a whiner and thousands of others like me, but the fact of the matter is that our benefits just don't cover that gap in gross income that we're now starting to see in the industry. Add in the shitty stock (thanks Monkey Boy) and you have a situation in which I'm not sure why we're all still here.
For those that think that the pay is sufficient...you are in one of a few camps...
1. Just out of college, very few financial encumbrances (just wait until you do)
2. Blissfully happy with your group/role/manager (you can count on that changing)
3. In management or partner level (you trolls should just stop posting here)
4. In HR (which doesn't mean you're happy about your pay, just that it's your job to defend)
5. Recently hired after a period of unemployment (and yes, I guess you would be grateful)
6. SteveB (resign already, please)
liked the idea of writing comments that begin with "I'm underpaid and unhappy at MS but I haven't left because..."
so here goes
because...
a. stuck in immigration process and dont want to bungle it with a job change
b. health benefits are fantastic
c. want to reduce / limit travel that typically comes with higher paying jobs in consulting etc
d. lethargy.. I am not ticked off enough
so the upshot is: people are unhappy but not so unhappy as to pack the bags and leave.. looks like decision-makers understand it and are using it to the max..
from leaders perspective I can understand how such actions can help bottomline.. still, such actions are pretty short-sighted and will hurt the company in the long run..
e.g. just imagine immigration process getting fixed one fine day and I can bet that there will be an exodus
"on the other hand I'm leaving the company in a few weeks out of total boredom with my job and low expectations of a career improvements at MS..."
Agreed. This is the main reason I see great people leaving. I am coming up on 10 years here. I remember when I was straight out of college and excited every morning to drive into Redmond. Those days are gone. I find it hard to care about shipping another meadiocre product. I don't take satisfaction in writing high quality code. And why should I? It isn't in my commitments!
The comments in the last mini post were spot on. Mangement only appreciates you if you create sharepoints and email wide aliases about "process". Actually doing work will get you Kimed.
I'm not a Microsoftie, but I've worked in some big companies and have seen that they almost never increase pay in line with the economy's inflation rate. The result is that for most staff, their pay slowly devalues as the cost of living rises faster.
The solution is either to be a star at work, or to get another job. Even jobs inside the same company can pay better, although you're always going to get more money joining an entirely new company.
Pay rises lower than the inflation rate can be seen as a message to move on.
Check this generous severance plan for Yahoo! folks. http://www.salon.com/wires/ap/scitech/2008/02/19/D8UTLPSO0_yahoo_severance/index.html
I doubt displaced MSN/Live people would see anything near as generous.
"Steve Ballmer never did any good to the employees"
Far be it from me to defend Ballmer, but that's false. Ballmer approved the doubled option hit when the stock first tanked, the first pay increase after the Y2K bust aimed at making up somewhat for the former options benefit, several subsequent broad-based pay increases, the underwater options trade-in program, the move to grants (which given the stock's sorry performance have been more lucrative than options would likely have been), etc.. He also oversaw more than half of them getting their job (as counterproductive as they may have been) and has never approved wide scale layoffs (despite market calls for greater cost efficiencies). You can blame him for many things, but never doing any good for employees isn't one of them.
Mini -- may I humbly suggest that you outlaw the use of the term "moron" on your blog? No other word so captures the lack-of-disrespect factor, and so lowers the level of discourse. Thanks.
I'd like to hear about some creative ideas on how employees could get their feelings about this acquisition heard by senior leadership. What options do we have? I don't know anyone who's willing to speak up for fear of retribution. And what about non-employee shareholders?
Yahoo shareholders will likely get a chance to be heard. What about Msft shareholders? Is someone finally going to stand up, say enough is enough, and organize a structured approach to ending this insane and disrespectful acquisition?
Isn't a hostile takeover a direct reflection of the behavior that got us into trouble in the first place? If so many of us are truly against the direction and behavior of our senior leadership then why don't we do something about it instead of whining and complaining?
If MSFT stock keeps dropping, Yahoo will be offering to buy MSFT in June.
Thanks for the pay cut.
Pay rises lower than the inflation rate can be seen as a message to move on.
If you think that applies to MSFT raises, then you think that about half the workforce is being told to move on. Getting an Achieved (that's 70% of everyone reviewed, for those of you just joining us) is practically synonymous with getting a < COLA raise. A few proud, brave souls will get at the higher end of the band, and yes, that *might* be above COLA. But don't count on it. Oh, unless you get a promotion. See multiple posts on the Kim phenomenon.
As someone else posted, management does it because they can get away with it. Period. They really don't care if it's fair, if people are unhappy, blah, blah, blah. They will only care if people start deciding to leave in droves. And that isn't going to happen, with the big R word lurking around every corner now.
So there you go: lots of bitter folks losing ground every single year they stick it out at the Big M. Hope that makes the partners, VPs, Senior VPs, and all the other bigwigs sleep well at night - folks who, oh, don't have to worry about COLA because they're so far above the rest of us, the money worries down here are just (barely) noise to them.
Anyone seen "Corporation"? Explains exactly why this is happening. We're just another big corporation now, which means that the company's responsibility is ONLY to increase its own profits. That's it, folks.
A question to the people here who are raving about our "fantastic" health benefits: How old are you??? I find it difficult to believe that the average 20- to 30-something year old who goes to 1 doctor visit and 2 dentist visits per year thinks the 90% coverage is "fantastic". What do other companies cover, 80% instead of 90%? Gotta love that $600 you are saving per year I guess!
...the underwater options trade-in program...
I find it truly entertaining that anyone would walk away with the belief that the underwater options trade-in program was done purposely to benefit employees. If you did then you clearly didn't do your homework.
1. Just out of college, very few financial encumbrances (just wait until you do)
2. Blissfully happy with your group/role/manager (you can count on that changing)
3. In management or partner level (you trolls should just stop posting here)
4. In HR (which doesn't mean you're happy about your pay, just that it's your job to defend)
5. Recently hired after a period of unemployment (and yes, I guess you would be grateful)
6. SteveB (resign already, please)
7. Non-management, high-performing level 64. base + bonus + stock averages out to about 175/yr. Highly portable, frequent external offers, few of which can match the combination of interesting work + total compensation.
Also of note:
I don't spend every waking hour at work.
I have no desire to ever become a partner.
I work on really, really cool stuff, and I've been able to move around the company at will.
I've had truly evil managers, bad managers and good managers and yet have managed to survive with my optimism and sanity. Luck of the draw, folks -- happens everywhere. How you respond to adversity is more important than avoiding adversity. Just a hint.
It's fine if you want to call me a fanboy, and I understand Microsoft does some truly bonehead things and it's certainly not perfect. I do wish a few more of us who actually liked working here -- and who are also quite popular recruiting targets externally -- would post a bit more to balance things out for the general public.
Not everyone at Microsoft is angry, resentful, lazy, underpaid and constantly taken advantage of. Some of us even think we make stuff that's pretty neat.
Hard to believe, but true.
Pay at MSFT is totally not fair. Since the great re-leveling back in the 90s, I was getting barely cost of living raises for years with a consistent 4.0 and good reviews. With the stock not moving significantly and the switch from options to RSUs, the total compensation package was ridiculous. I left around 4 years ago and now make double what I did when I was at MSFT and consistently get significant raises and bonuses for putting in the kind of effort that MS couldn't have been bothered to reward me for.
Oh, and the myth of MS being stable in a recession is ridiculous. There are plenty of other large companies in the Seattle area that pay software people what they are worth and will weather a recession as well as an over-extended over-expanded MSFT.
"Ballmer ... has never approved wide scale layoffs (despite market calls for greater cost efficiencies). You can blame him for many things, but never doing any good for employees isn't one of them."
Exactly. I wish Microsoft would lay off 10% of its work force like Yahoo! recently did. That would get rid of most of the lackluster employees complaining here. (Anyone so unhappy is almost never doing good work, and is certainly a pain to work with.)
Compared to most other big companies out there, Microsoft's senior leadership is actually much better than average. SteveB isn't a Gil Amelio or a Terry Semel. Fine, he isn't a Steve Jobs either, but you wouldn't like working for Steve Jobs. Apple engineers have no say over product direction and design. But most of the people complaining here have never worked anywhere other than Microsoft, and have limited exposure to the senior leadership anyway, so they don't realize how bad it is everywhere else.
I've heard anecdotally that Microsoft's retention rate has dropped significantly in recent years, but that at the same time the return rate of former employees wanting to come back has skyrocketed. People are getting out there and discovering it wasn't so bad here afterall.
Personally, I think this is great and strongly encourage all you unhappy employees to try it. If you leave and never come back, yay, You're happier and Microsoft just got smaller. If you leave and come back a year or two later, then you just significantly increased your salary and and are much happier to be at Microsoft. It's win-win either way.
Sticking around when you're miserable and bored and disagree with the company's direction -- even when there are exigent personal circumstances like visas and bills -- it's just dumb. You only get one trip through this world, make yours an excellent one.
Mini -- may I humbly suggest that you outlaw the use of the term "moron" on your blog? No other word so captures the lack-of-disrespect factor, and so lowers the level of discourse. Thanks.
If it's a lack of disrespect, what's the problem?
Check this generous severance plan for Yahoo! folks. http://www.salon.com/wires/ap/scitech/2008/02/19/D8UTLPSO0_yahoo_severance/index.html
I doubt displaced MSN/Live people would see anything near as generous.
Yahoo folks deserve that. MSN people don't even deserve two weeks notice.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/events/hero/
Uh, wtf?
Not everyone at Microsoft is angry, resentful, lazy, underpaid and constantly taken advantage of. Some of us even think we make stuff that's pretty neat.
+1 - I used to think I was a victim of Microsoft since I was busting my hump for the product and customers, and getting mediocre reviews with no end in sight. The worst is when my team lost 60% of our staff in my discipline and I stepped up to pick up the slack to keep the trains running on time, and again mediocre review. Then I told myself to stop whining, picked myself up, moved to a new group, and am kicking ass in a new job. I realized that my attitude permeated everything I did and made me hard to work with. Why would management want to give me a good review/promotion when they could tell I was negative and cynical under the surface. If I want a better than cost of living raise this year then I have to earn it, doing your job makes you your base pay, going above and beyond is what brings rewards. Take a look in the mirror.
A question to the people here who are raving about our "fantastic" health benefits: How old are you???
Old enough to be married with kids. As a single guy in my early 30's, I couldn't even remember my doctors name (had to look it up on the benefits site). But when I got married, my wife, well, women have more complicated plumbing I guess. Then we had kids.
MSFTs benefits package is okay but not that inspiring for single kids straight out of college. It's a huge selling point for married guys with families (though it's not priceless, you can buy equivalent for about $1400 a month).
But MSFTs review and promotion policies are highly discouraging to people with families. MSFT prefers people with no life outside Campus. They want rock-stars, and families make for distractions. Families tend to turn rock stars into Kims.
So, one of the biggest selling points the company has is largely irrelevant to the type of person the company really wants. Hot-Shot college grads don't need gold-plated health plans, they want the chance at a fast-track to millionaireville - in other words, stock options. Along with stock price appreciation. MSFT doesn't offer either of those any more, so the real Rock-Stars don't find the company attractive any longer.
The people who might find it attractive - Kim's with Kids - aren't wanted.
It's a reflection of how incompetent LisaB is that this basic disconnect continues.
"I find it truly entertaining that anyone would walk away with the belief that the underwater options trade-in program was done purposely to benefit employees. If you did then you clearly didn't do your homework."
I find it truly entertaining that you read so poorly. The topic was things Ballmer did that were good for employees. The options trade-in program was one - at least for those who voluntary chose to take advantage of it at the time.
>If it's a lack of disrespect, what's the problem?
Mini, may I suggest you ban morons from your site for lack of respect for the English language.
Mini, I think if you read
http://paulbuchheit.blogspot.com/2008/02/most-import-thing-to-understand-about.html
and cogitate on it a bit, you might realize that Microsoft's offer to buy Yahoo demonstrates that Microsoft is thinking like a Valley startup for once.
Granting this proposition for the sake of the argument, you might want to take a close look at how many Valley startups end up as dismal failures.
Me, I'm on my third "Valley startup" now; I'm one of the lucky ones. Both of the previous two were successful, in the sense of a profitable exit by being sold to big-name companies.
And both were failures, in the sense that neither of those big-name companies seemed to have the foggiest clue why they had dumped megabucks into the acquisition, and in both cases, within a very few years the startup components had been completely destroyed internally.
Caveat emptor ... and emptee [sic].
Patronizer here,
couple of comments
1) on the whole topic of flurry of "Pay is fair - stop whining" comments are coming from? Seems a bit suspicious. What's the latest theory, that an alien sect is posting on this blog to ipnotize you into believing your compensation is fair? Grow up: you have an opinion, I (as the author of one of those comments) have a different one. Specifically that if your pay was so unfair you'd have found something better out there.
2) thanks to the smart guy that asked the "because" ... my 0.02 on the reasons
a. stuck in immigration process and dont want to bungle it with a job change It's a good reason and one I can't do anything about. You run the numbers it's cheaper to let the market do the adjustment once you get your green card.
b. health benefits are fantastic But their value depends on your family size so I get it if you're married with 8 kids not if you're single and 25...
c. want to reduce / limit travel that typically comes with higher paying jobs in consulting etc Also known as having my cake and eating it too. Dude there's a reason those jobs are paid MORE: if they weren't those people would be idiots not to come over ... right? So if you feel underpaid because I-Bankers (working 105 hours/week as I did) get more I'd recommend a mirror and a "but I get to sleep".
d. lethargy.. I am not ticked off enough LEAVE NOW, leeeeave nooooow, you REALLY want to leeeaave now ...! Seriously, the problem in that case is ... and I would mind losing you because ... ? I hired you when you were giving 100%, now you're wasting your life giving 2% ... get out PLEASE and take your lousy pay as the best incentive I can give you without getting sued.
Source Fource to the rescue!
A question to the people here who are raving about our "fantastic" health benefits: How old are you??? I find it difficult to believe that the average 20- to 30-something year old who goes to 1 doctor visit and 2 dentist visits per year thinks the 90% coverage is "fantastic". What do other companies cover, 80% instead of 90%? Gotta love that $600 you are saving per year I guess!
Where are you working!? My family is covered 100% for medical coverage and I didn't pay a cent for this 7 years in MS for medicine, doctor's visits, emergency room, hospital...
My wife was given the most expensive drug for her condition because nothing else worked -- guess what, MS was covering that 100%.
Neither Google or Amazon or any startup will give me that level of coverage for my family.
I've heard anecdotally that Microsoft's retention rate has dropped significantly in recent years, but that at the same time the return rate of former employees wanting to come back has skyrocketed. People are getting out there and discovering it wasn't so bad here afterall.
Well, that's one way to interpret the data. Another would be that Microsoft is willing to give someone who's now an "external" candidate a significant bump up in pay to a level they still wouldn't have reached if they'd stayed "internal" the entire time.
"I've heard anecdotally that Microsoft's retention rate has dropped significantly in recent years, but that at the same time the return rate of former employees wanting to come back has skyrocketed."
Maybe because that's one of the quickest ways to go from Level [n] to Level [n+2>]
Yeah - I have also heard of a few level 63's leaving for a year or two and coming back as a 65.
A question to the people here who are raving about our "fantastic" health benefits: How old are you??? I find it difficult to believe that the average 20- to 30-something year old who goes to 1 doctor visit and 2 dentist visits per year thinks the 90% coverage is "fantastic".
Clearly you don't have any great need for health insurance except catastrophic coverage, if you only have one dr visit and two dental visits per year.
If you have a spouse or kids, nevermind special needs (for yourself or any of them), need for counseling, OT, PT, maternity care - the list goes on. And MSFT's one real benefit these days is that the health care coverage is the best being offered by a corporation.
If you don't need it and you don't anticipate getting married, having children, or developing any kind of physical or mental illness that requires more than a well-person checkup once/year, then you don't have that golden handcuff to worry about.
So this doesn't apply to you, but DOES apply to the vast majority of MSFT folks. So what was your point, exactly?
A peek at how the top guys live. Can you say > COLA?
Departing Microsoft exec has big house, warm pants
Steve Berkowitz's House
More pictures
I have seen alot HR data, I think on average, people are paid fairly.
The problem is that you have a lot of younger dev and test (hired 3-5 years ago)and some mid level hires who are underpaid and the sale force that is vastly overpaid.
This isn't any much different if you compare it to Oracle or IBM. But do we want to be like IBM? I say no.
If you are one of those underpaid person, I can understand your feeling.
I find it truly entertaining that anyone would walk away with the belief that the underwater options trade-in program was done purposely to benefit employees. If you did then you clearly didn't do your homework.
And yet, benefit us it did. Those of us who took advantage of the program were able to convert options that never made it above water before they expired into some handy cash.
Not fantastic, but certainly better than the big fat zero it would have been otherwise.
I agree with many people here that MS pay is low. I won't say if it's fair or unfair as that's purely subjective but compared to other companies it is low.
I left almost exclusively because I could get 25% more money right away by doing so. I understand for people with large families, health care might be a big benefit but I'm single. MS does give 3 weeks of vacation as mentioned which I liked but my new employer gives 4.
If you want to be anything more than a training program for your competitors, you do need to offer top notch compensation to keep your top people.
"A question to the people here who are raving about our "fantastic" health benefits: How old are you??? I find it difficult to believe that the average 20- to 30-something year old who goes to 1 doctor visit and 2 dentist visits per year thinks the 90% coverage is "fantastic". What do other companies cover, 80% instead of 90%? Gotta love that $600 you are saving per year I guess!"
If you have kids, especially young kids, it is totally worth it (the healthcare benefits, that is). If you are pregnant, it is totally worth it. If you have bad eyesight, it is awfully nice not to have to make a copay when you get new glasses.
MSFT shares are down 20% year-to-date. It's clear to everyone except senior management that the Yahoo! deal makes no sense financially, technologically, strategically or otherwise. My holdings of MSFT are insignificant to a guy like Ballmer, but they are quite significant to me! Ballmer, Gates, Liddell and the rest of the drunken sailors don't care about shareholders (Why should they? They're so rich they can afford the luxury of 'investing' for the 'long term'.), but perhaps they care about their own employees? How do we get through to these guys and, for once, stop them from careening headlong into another huge mistake? Seriously, isn't it time for some sort of organized protest or something?
But most of the people complaining here have never worked anywhere other than Microsoft, and have limited exposure to the senior leadership anyway, so they don't realize how bad it is everywhere else.
I was under the impression it was the exact opposite. The satisfied people I find around Msft are the ones who have worked here for years or have never worked at another hi-tech company. I've been in the business for over 20 years (8 at Msft). Most of the other 12 years were spent at a few very well-known hi-tech companies in SV and Mass. Without a doubt, the culture at Msft is unique. From my experience, those who embrace it are the ones who haven't discovered things like:
1. The characteristics of a "good" manager.
2. The difference between thought leadership and people leadership (management).
3. Arrogance isn't required in order to get things done.
4. The difference between architecture and engineering.
5. Some companies are actually interested in helping you pursue your passion as opposed to just pursuing your manager's passion (which is typically just climbing the corporate ladder for entirely selfish reasons).
6. The value of leveraging a structured thought process as opposed to the value of fire fighting (proactive vs reactive).
7. A successful well-rounded team contains individuals with complimentary characteristics as opposed to a bunch of individuals who are clones of their boss.
The list is much longer but you get my point. If I had to rank Msft based on maturity level it would be last or 2nd to last on my list of past employers but this is just my opinion based on my past experience. But as someone else mentioned earlier, our approach to acquiring Yahoo is a reflection of the culture. We seem to have no issues with going hostile. My suspicion is that a lot of people at Msft aren't blinking an eye about our approach. I think that's very sad. I truly wish we could do something about it. At this point I suspect leaving the company is really our only option.
Wow. I am surprised at the comments here. Just when I was thinking of trying for a job at MS.
If y'all are so unhappy, why can't you do something about it as a group? Isn't there a dept in HR that can listen to your complaints? Internal anonymous forums? Is management really that screwed up?
I have talked to a couple of MS employees who work under Scott Gu and they seem very happy there. They are very happy to be under Scott Guthrie's leadership (he is now a VP)
Some guy writes:
>What about Msft shareholders?
Some other guy writes:
>the rest of the drunken sailors don't care about shareholders
Astonishingly clueless. Do you guys think that this acquisition is happening without tacit approval from the big Microsoft shareholders? If they actually were against the deal, SteveB and the board of directors would be out on the street right now.
It also doesn't look as Yahoo has many options to fend off the takeover; their shareholders actually want the company to be acquired. There's a nice analysis at the NY Times here.
"Do you guys think that this acquisition is happening without tacit approval from the big Microsoft shareholders?"
Acquiescence might be more accurate than approval. And of course many who were against the deal simply voted with their feet and sold, which is why the stock is down significantly and on much higher than average volume.
"If they actually were against the deal, SteveB and the board of directors would be out on the street right now."
Disagree. As above, many simply sold. Of those who remain, several appear to have reservations about the deal but are unwilling to take it further than meeting with Ballmer and making those known. Getting rid of Ballmer and the BOD is another matter altogether, and would require a major proxy challenge that no one has had the courage to lead so far, despite a 50% reduction in the stock price during Ballmer's tenure as CEO.
What I find amazing is the complete lack of management accountability. True, a few people moved out. But its like roaches. If there are a one or two you see, there are really many more that need to go.
Who in our leadership even gives a whiff of technical vision? Ray Ozzie?! Oh please. We need people more like Johnny Lee (of Carnegie Mellon Human-Computer Interaction Institute), as Chief Architects. Ray Ozzie *was* a pioneer. But Lotus Notes is so 1980's. And his latest, Groove, is just useless...not to mention there are already 2 other MS technologies to do what it does.
Hiring Ray Ozzie was again Microsoft leadership jumping on a trend 5-10 years too late.
So the message to MS employees is that Microsoft is a great place to end your career. When you have innovated someplace else we will hire you. But don't try to be passionate at Microsoft. In my group passionate people are seen as rude by management. And being critical is also rude. Again Microsoft is a great place to kick-back and get along. But never be critical of anything. Certainly not Vista.
About Yahoo's compensation package, I am not M&A expert, but I think they are doing this to mess with MSFT. They give people a huge encouragement not to remain and work for the borg, and deplete huge amount of capital. They know they can't stop the takeover so they will destroy their value in every way possible - it's Microsoft's problem now! This is actually pretty cool if you're a Yahoo, and I would be livid if I were a Yahoo shareholder (oh if only I were a YHOO shareholder).
Another thing, I am not blinking at the thought of going hostile. What are you people new to the business world? When have our competitors EVER been anything but hostile to us? I guess all those court cases and dirty class action lawyers are part of the warm friendly business landscape we should be basing our business model on?
Hey Ballmer, I'll fail at leading the online division for 1/10th of what you gave Berkowitz.
Mini, noting your quick quips and summarizing the topics of most of your blogs, which start with and end on internal topics like towels, reviews, pay, and anything having to do with anything but your customers, I feel a little obligated to bounce some light off of the mind-altering ozone bending the dim bulbs illuminating Redmond.
Seeing the latest executive announcement that seems to keep Microsoft in the news on a daily basis, today's touchy feely love fest with the open source community seems to be hitting on a skeptical note with those affected. It sure sounds good, as if Microsoft has a choice, but many of the press reviews tout a long legacy of deceptive statements from executive at Microsoft.
http://blog.wired.com/monkeybites/2008/02/smoke-and-mirro.html
http://www.news.com/8301-13580_3-9876187-39.html
http://www.news.com/8301-10784_3-9876132-7.html
But the really telling article was one that had nothing to do with the open source issues from the street.com:
http://www.thestreet.com/s/blu-ray-victory-wont-budge-microsoft/newsanalysis/techsoftware/10404412.html?puc=googlefi
about Microsoft's quiet probable plan to exercise more proprietary formats for the XBox, using the same formula that made Microsoft the shining example of ethical corporate behavior it is today. Is it more of the same old domination by format manipulation?
Reading the four Balmer-Ozzie Principles of open cooperation with the world:
1. Ensuring open connections
2. Promoting data portability
3. Enhancing support for industry standards, and
4. fostering more open engagement with customers and the industry, including open source communities,
I was looking for something tangible that was not smoke and mirrors but straight clear concise statements of opening formats. They are not there. Very much like Clinton's parsing of words during his 8 year presidency. I guess it depends on what you mean by "open source."
Meanwhile, I wonder if I will ever be able to read and write to my old legacy data files from years ago, all on Microsoft formats like .doc, .ppt, .xls without having to buy a Microsoft product. With the promise of 'we won't sue' I am sure DVD Jon will probably offer something for that. Or better yet, Jon Torvalds. Not.
The beauty of a free market
We are blessed with a fairly liquid IT job market, and one with high demand and short supply. That means pay and benefits are optimized to the extent that employees can make apples-to-apples comparisons. Certainly, there's friction related to moving locations or disciplines, but there's enough similar companies with similar positions around Microsoft that if you wanted to move, you would.
Yes, a programmer at a boutique wall street firm might make a lot more, but that's a very narrow market and moving to a job like that involves much higher friction.
I'm confident, based on numbers I've seen as a lead/manager and the job market situation, that Microsoft offers a fair deal, definitely at the 50th %ile, and perhaps at the targeted 65th.
Apple engineers have no say over product direction and design
... Whoever does have say (you imply Jobs) seems to be doing just fine.
Long time reader, first time poster.
I think sometimes this blog suffers from the 'pile on' syndrome, in that one negative post spurs others to pile on their negative experiences. Unfortunately, picking on something is always much easier than making suggestions for improvement, specially in an anonymous post on the internet.
I guess my point is: I don't believe the comments are representative of Microsoft employees at large. There are bad spots in all companies, and bad periods even in the brightest of careers. I would urge readers to take these comments with a grain of salt and posters to reflect back and really post a balanced view of their experience, negative or positive.
Finally, just as we go read yahoo's boards to get a bead on their internal freak-outs, I'm sure many yahoo's are reading this blog to gauge MS. My balanced view: it will be tough, more than culture clash, I'm worried about who will be determining the product/team roadmap for both Microsoft and Yahoo code... Will it be the market, customers or some sort of ninja exec team? (I hope its the customers). But at the same time, I can't help but feel energized. I guess I'm willing to put in some skin to try and make it work---this could be the biggest turning point in the tech industry for years to come and I for one would not like to sit on the sidelines.
Go Giants!
Apple engineers have no say over product direction and design
Engineers don't particularly care if they have any say over product direction and design as long as the people who do have a say get it right, and then allow the engineers to have their say over the engineering of the product.
from: http://blogs.reuters.com/mediafile/2008/02/21/yahoo-open-your-golden-parachutes/
Silicon Alley Insider’s Henry Blodget thinks Yahoo’s new severance plan could cost Microsoft between $1 billion to $3 billion if they seal a deal. There are a lot of assumptions baked into how he gets to this figure, but it’s an interesting figure nonetheless. If the former Wall Street analyst’s math is correct, then Microsoft’s estimated $1 billion in “synergies” it expects to wring out of Yahoo from cost cutting and revenue benefits doesn’t look so hot anymore– at least not in the first year.
So, now it appears more attractive that the 1Billion in synergies (translattion=layoffs) will now result in layoffs of MS Folks only... hmmm. Well Played Yahoo, I don't like it! But, Well Played. Ouch!
#86. Yes. I see people get promoted by sticking/... to his/her manager (the right way?) and others not even though they are working hard, producing great work and innovative ideas. It is becoming more a marketing job here for oneself to get promoted, and thus (contribute more?) to the company. I see exodus from some good people... It is just sad, we are on the way to... not to innovation and create true value
"But the really telling article ... about Microsoft's quiet probable plan to exercise more proprietary formats for the XBox, using the same formula that made Microsoft the shining example of ethical corporate behavior it is today."
This has to be one of the dumbest comments I've read here in awhile, and that's really saying something.
Microsoft, Apple, Google, Amazon, Comcast, ... they all believe digital downloads are going to displace physical media and have invested heavily in that. It's what consumers seem to want. Xbox Live Marketplace doesn't use formats any more "proprietary" than those used by iTunes Marketplace. And anyway, proprietary file formats are ubiquitous ad have nothing to do with Microsoft's ethics problems, which were all about improper business tactics (like using Windows pricing against OEMs to force them into certain decisions).
You obviously don't work at Microsoft, but for those Mini-Commenters who do, stop relying on the mass media for your information. Instead, make friends with people in the Microsoft divisions that interest you, and find out the truth from the source.
99.999% of all press articles (except for the rare article that reveals a secret or is written well enough for a Pulitzer) are so buggy, inaccurate, and rehashing what other reporters wrote that they just aren't worth your time. It's the writing equivalent of crapware, except there's even more of it.
>"they all believe digital downloads are going to displace physical media and have invested heavily in that. It's what consumers seem to want. Xbox Live Marketplace doesn't use formats any more "proprietary" than those used by iTunes Marketplace."
Wrong. Some of those with broadband prefer digital downloads. The rest (which is probably many times larger than your online market) look at games as just games. They want it on a disk to load or play direct from the disk and they don't necessarily have broadband. And they have no plans to jump onto the online bandwangon. Most who have used it either through XBox or Valve or others know it is really just a disguised means of a)mining data, b)forcing DRM via an automatic checking service and c)sticking it to your customers for all the crapware that follows. A generally very uncomfortable experience.
In regards to proprietary formats, the reason I have never purchased and iTune online and never will (or an XBox game or hardware) is because it is proprietary and hardware specific An exception is DRM free stuff available from iTunes.
I guess that is why the PC Gaming Associat