Microsoft Layoff 2009 - Day 2
Okay, not a real post put more of a page break given the incredible number of comments from the first post on the 5,000 layoff cut-back (which is really 2,000 if you listen to Ballmer since we're hiring 3,000 people in the near-term, especially to help out with Search - take comfort in that you first 1,400 and you remaining 3,600).
Feel free to post comments on any Day 2 experiences and safe feedback about the Town Hall after you've had a chance to watch it.
If you're creating any Facebook groups because of this that you'd like highlighted please let me know in the comments and I'll roll them together. I'm especially interested in any networking groups for Microsofties + local tech companies given that some excellent contributors are affected by this, so some real talent is available.
Personally, I feel like we've taken the Sword of Damocles and rammed it through a bunch of pink slips and now we intend to dangle that above the head of Microsoft for the next year and a half. All the way through the end of FY10, folks. "Cut once, cut deep." Or, you know, don't. If you have insight to this counter-intuitive plan, please share.
520 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 400 of 520 Newer› Newest»>>Most job boards are location specific, so most people in Redmond won't be looking in NY.
How about Craigslist Seattle? Just make sure your headline is Ex-Microsofties (and others) looking to relo to NY.
BTW - my company also has positions to post, and we welcome the "babies thrown out with the bathwater." Other than Craigslist, any specific recommendations? Mini - okay to list here?
Those 5000 jobs and cuts are not meant to do any more than send a signal to the rest of divisions that they need to adjust their behavior in the next phase.
I don't think 1.5B will do any good to the stock or our business it is just peanuts they are looking to change the culture by sending a signal.
Like cutting merit increases which is really nothing 3 - 5% well if they really wanted to cut they would have said no bonuses.
Anyway Steve balmer doesn't know a thing about the economy if he really did he would've been cutting a year ago not like what he said in the town hall that he started to think of that just in november. WAKE UP!
I wonder how many people are thinking that maybe there is more to life than working for Microsoft or even in the tech industry? Is it worth it to toil like hell in a gloomy rabbit hutch of an office, living in the wet cold gray overpriced and overhyped Seattle area?
As for me, there are real jobs out there...long haul trucker, merchant marine, teaching.....life is too short for being a MicroSerf...I am outta here.
It's not the lay offs that disturb me but how they picked people to be laid off. Drinking buddies and @**kisser...you stay. Nose to the grindstone and not part of the in-crowd or outshining your mgr= laid off.
I understand your frustration.
However, the totally subjective system you're seeing here is the same system that has primarily been in use for promotions and reviews for many, many years. It's simply far more transparent in this instance.
(My deep sympathy to all those impacted by this. I'm afraid that there may be many of us joining you in just short of 1 quarter.)
For the first time in its history, MSFT is laying off employees. My question is, why bother?
People continue to repeat this, yet I've experienced many RIFs that I do not believe were anything but layoffs.
Have I misinterpreted the several-RIFs I've been through at Microsoft, or are people repeating a myth, over and over again?
What the heck was Microsoft thinking?
Posted Jan 23rd 2009 6:00PM by Jamie Dlugosch
Excellent article!!! It fully captures my exact thoughts, as posted in my previous messages. Thank you for posting it. Here's a url for the article:
http://tinyurl.com/msftlayoff
Forward this story to MS management please! Management has made a big mistake.
Anyone know an employment lawyer in Bellevue / Redmond that is *not* affiliated with MS?
"Jamie Dlugosch is a contributor to OptionsZone.com."
He's also the guy who perma-pumped SIRI, which now trades at $.11.
If a poll is done, could you also include any health problems, paternity/maternity leave, or other significant life impacting events? Also, please don't make it over 40/under 40 - a lot of people under 40 lost their jobs, and if you want a good sample you'll want to be open to that. Asking for age or age range is good.
It is really feasible to data mine employee data to cross reference place of birth, education, current address to find out how many spouses are working for one's friends at MSFT and do random qualifications research. I bet this data would be really enlightening, especially for talent brought from abroad.
Got to add kudos to the folks who asked questions at the Town Hall today.
(Though the guy harping on the "quality of hires" thing might have done well to reign it in sooner.)
To the Lady who raised the point of not hearing "I am sorry": you've restored my hope that there is more "humanity" left at Microsoft than I thought. Reminded me of watching that guy stand down the line of tanks at Tiananmen in '89. You didn't get through to SteveB, but that did wonders for me. Thank you for that.
""Zune platform revenue decreased $100 million, or 54 percent, reflecting a decrease in device sales," Microsoft said."
Don't forget this from CES, January 07, 2009:
"Robbie Bach, head of Microsoft's entertainment division, noted that Zune 'had a great year' in 2008."
The biggest risk is that some of the best talent at MSFT may get nervous about sticking around.
The brain drain started when MSFT quit being a growth stock. People waited it out for a year or so after Ballmer got the big chair, but I started hearing about Apple, Yahoo, IBM and Google cherry-picking the people they wanted out of MS a LONG time ago.
-jcr
And while this "community" approach might make sense in some situations, there is a hint of socialism in this.
Everybody on a software development team should be paid the same, and it should be proportional to how much money the product makes divided by the number of people on the team. That way people will be focused on teamwork, making good hiring/firing decisions, and ultimately making a good, profitable product. With the way Microsoft is set up now, nobody is focused on any of those things.
WHO DO YOU RESPECT TODAY?
I worked a dozen years for Bill, retired, came back by invitation and was absolutely horrified at what the company looked under Ballmer.
The question I would ask of those defending the company is "who do you respect, and why?
I didn't always like the company I worked for - but I could always answer that question.
Back when Bill Gates was doing the quarterly business reviews, he was not just a visionary. He was also the pragmatic "don't shit me" guy - most of the stuff Ballmer has spent money on, would not have passed the sniff test at one of Bill's QBR's. ("really. if I give you $10M, you guarantee you can return $10B in 1 year with no expenses and no risk - you are full of shit, security, get this moron out of here".)
John Shirley (the President who built MS) was one of the scariest people I ever met, and a number-crunching asshole ... who knew how to run a business for profit, down to the last detail.
Frank Gaudette (the CFO who built MS) was a genuinely nice guy, who probably framed the first penny he ever made. You knew better than to make a math mistake with the incredibly nice Mr. Gaudette (may he rest in peace).
Paul Maritz was a genuinely nice guy, who knew exactly what corporate customers needed and would not deviate from it.
Brian Valentine was one of the harshest of the lot, but you could openly argue with him (with no risk of repercussions), and if you made your case, you would see those arguments taken into account as he did what he had to do - ship product.
Ron Soukup and Paul Flessner were both brilliant hires out of industry - they'd done the job, there was never any question that they knew exactly what it took.
Kevin Johnson really tried to bring a better sense of customer service and humanity to the whole thing, without undermining what had made MS successful all along.
These are the people that Bill brought in to run the business.
I grew up knowing that I could go to any one of these guys with a real corporate or customer problem - and they would listen, and act on it.
They're all gone now. Let's hear some compelling stories about leadership and positive change today.
Anyone? Anyone? Anyone ...
hmmm.
I hear all these comments about the next batch to be axed would be low performer and wont be paid any severance.
What is the basis of these comments? I mean the whole point in paying severance is that it is a sort of legal bribe so that the person waives his/her right to sue. A bad review score for previous year may not stop that person for suing MS on other grounds. Why would MS not want to 'bribe' these guys with severance pay?
I saw this rumor posting in yesterday's topic and apparently it's been confirmed today. Microsoft's oldest software product, Microsoft Flight Simulator, is no more.
http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=21981
***MINI***: If it's true, I'd appreciate it if you would mention it in your main post. Axing a profitable and highly respected product is such an astonishingly stupid decision that it deserves to be mentioned.
"I feel that Steve didn't fully listen to the employee who raised the point that she has yet to hear a 'I am sorry' from MS Leaders. She was asking about MS Leadership's accountability for 'leading' our Company into such a position, like the captain of a ship. She wasn't suggesting an apology for the layoff decision."
Great point. I thought Steve could have "exceeded" expectations while responding to that question. But unfortunately, he chose to just read into her words literally and answer - maybe that was intentional, given every word spoken in such a forum would be watched carefully by legal ears.
Steve B used to be yelling "developer, developer...the most important...love the company" in company meeting. Yes, I was touched. I thought he was a good CEO even if he doesn't have the knowledge for software as billG. I thought he know the value of engineers...
MSFT is not facing some wall street style companies; MSFT is facing Apple/Google, who has CEO at the same level as billG. If billG/Jobs are graduate student level, Steve B is high student. How could you expect a high school kid competing with graduate students??
I was wrong. Look at the town hall, is he going to cheer for "developers" again?
Steve B is totally a Wall Street Styple moron who knows nothing but cheating/lying. When he talked about "market share", he has no idea why Apple takes more share and how. He doesn't know the AppStore architecture and how it is different than other sofware distribution methods.
Please go, Steve. You already have enough money, why staying here and screw up MSFT??
I couldn't agree more...sort of disrespectful IMHO.
> Am I only the one who thinks Lisa B could have dressed up a bit. Cargo shorts and a sweatshirt? Amateurish.
"There are too many old people at this company. They are too used to fleecing technically illiterate baby boomers, while the kids know how to do it cheaper and better. As a result, there is a lack of fresh blood because no one under thirty respects microsoft."
What a lot you have to learn.
Any layoffs on Friday or was everyone informed Thursday? If there were layoffs on Friday, was a severance package offered? Was it the same as those laid off on Friday?
So, of the people who were let go yesterday...see two categories: people who are allowed to stay 60 days (like myself) and ppl who had to leave right away. Do both categories figure into the 1400 or so who were laid off? I make up that it's only the ppl who had to leave this week. The ppl given 60 days weren't technically laid off. That number has to be pretty high...thoughts?
History will show, as some here have said, that this massive lay-off was the true beginning of the end for Microsoft - and fittingly so. They could have avoided this in a myriad of ways, but opted for a pathway that they thought would appease the shareholders - at the pure expense of the employees.
To current Microsoft employees: If I were you, I'd be jumping ship ASAP, even in these tough times. Don't waste your lives by remaining at such a misguided and foolhardy company. As an ex-MS employee, I can tell you that there is a world beyond MS with far greater potential.
I've been here more than a dozen years. Steve, as charming as you might be in a 1:1 setting, you look tired now. If Detroit is still your passion, go find a way to save them.
Liddell, you look clueless for making this a surprise to shareholders. Your aussie accent sounds cute, but when you listen beyond that, it's all BS, and you know it.
Lisa, I am disgusted with how you can turn from no-BS manager into corporate PR-mouth. Did you ever check when the last insidems blog was updated? So much for transparency. How 'bout managing the Storm full time and riding into the sunset?
Turner, will you publicly do a mea culpa on your -paraphrasing here- "we're not subject to recession" comments less than 100 days ago? Sorry dude, this ain't WMT.
WTF people, am I working for the Bush 43 administration, or a world class company? Sad week overall. And I have to sit here reading one goodbye mail after another when I never thought this company would sink this low.
Makes me want to throw up.
I'm sorry. There, I said it. See, it wasn't so hard Steve. Don't let the door hit you on your way out.
Steve's explanation for missing 2Q earnings and announcing layoffs in the Town Hall was that economy isn't going to bottom out for another year or two, and that he doesn't expect it to recover once it does. So, the same company that raised FY09 earnings guidance 6 months ago is suddenly able to see 3 years into the economic future, and see a vision not shared by anyone else on Wall Street or our competitors? I'm just dumbfounded that we aren't accepting any responsibility for our earnings and adjusting our strategy. No change in leadership. No focus on core growth products. Just more of the same. More chasing new business segments. More complacency. More anemic product releases. Don't drink the Kool-aide.
What the heck was Microsoft thinking?
Posted Jan 23rd 2009 6:00PM by Jamie Dlugosch
Filed under: Earnings reports, Bad news, Management, Microsoft (MSFT), Recession
One of the biggest complaints of the public equity markets is the incredibly short-term focus of participants. Management teams for publicly traded entities face severe consequences from a market short on patience.
Decisions tend to be focused on delivering short-term results. The "beat the number" game has become standard operating procedure. Such is the cost of accessing capital while providing shareholders liquidity.
But is worth it? I'm not so sure.
Investors want the company to make as much money as possible in the short term. As a result, if a company is not profitable in a given quarter, there is extreme pressure to cut costs and to do so immediately -- no matter the longer-term expense of such action.
In many cases cutting costs are exactly the right tonic to rejuvenate profits, but in some instances, those short-term cuts can do more damage than good.
This past week, Microsoft (NASDAQ: MSFT) dropped a big bomb on the market by releasing its quarterly earnings earlier than expected. Lost in the headline of the lower revenue and earnings number was the announcement that the company would be cutting 5,000 jobs from its rolls.
For the first time in its history, MSFT is laying off employees. My question is, why bother?
Seriously, while it is a negative in the short term for MSFT to have missed its earnings and revenue numbers, the loss of jobs will have a big psychological impact on the company. The move sends a horrible signal inside and outside of the company.
The biggest risk is that some of the best talent at MSFT may get nervous about sticking around. Will they be next to lose their jobs? That's what I would be thinking.
Microsoft is still a cash cow, and they are using that cash to do things like buy back stock. They are making money hand over fist, even if the numbers are not what the market expected.
The move looks like an act of desperation.
The company's stated reason for cutting is to preserve cash in an economic environment where there appears to be no light at the end of the tunnel. I don't buy it.
The move was made to appease the market, but the tradeoff will be a lack of credibility with current and future employees. In one move they lost a key competitive advantage.
Now they are just like everyone else. No wonder the stock was down on the news.
"Lets take this boat private with the money that is sitting and doing nothing for anyone in cash and liquid assets."
Great idea! Once you convince Bill to stop selling and throw in with you, you're only shy by over $100 billion. I'm sure Citibank will be happy to swap places with shareholders and loan it to you. Of course it's not going to be unlimited term/repayment optional anymore, and the vig is going to be a lot more than the 3% annual dividend you're paying shareholders. So you're going to want to figure out how you pay for that on a fixed schedule. Also, how you will compete against those who can still use stock as currency to buy companies and attract and retain employees. Because remember your goal here is to free SLT from distractions.
Before you suggest cutting Search or whatnot, look up how long it took for MS Word, IE, or WinNT (on small/med networks over Novell) to get market share... or
"Kevin Johnson really tried to bring a better sense of customer service and humanity to the whole thing, without undermining what had made MS successful all along"
Didn't he come up with the genius idea of buying YAHOO!? He bought aQuantive for 6 Billion , can you see a dent it has made on online business?
Hmm...There is certainly a problem with Microsoft. But, I guess it is nothing specific to MS but holds good for any company of that size.
The problem is about not being able to provide growth opportunities to ALL those bright talent they have been accumulating using their brand name. Now, this leads to politics among the best guys that leads the company nowhere!
I have worked with Microsoft for couple of years before "I decided to quit" because of the same reason and because of the "over-processed" culture. I am glad I did.
Smaller companies take better care of their employees and also provide better growth opportunities than these giants (if you are willing to sacrifice the brand name)...
Try to answer this honestly: Would you still be passionate about MS, if it was not MS but some little known company providing the same facilities?
What is in a name I say. Move on and find a "deserving" position for your self.
Some perspective:
Tech layoffs: The scorecard
Doesn't yet include the 3000 at IBM.
I saw this rumor posting in yesterday's topic and apparently it's been confirmed today. Microsoft's oldest software product, Microsoft Flight Simulator, is no more.
It is not a rumor. It is true. My sister used to work on that team. All her former co workers are looking for jobs.
I hear all these comments about the next batch to be axed would be low performer and wont be paid any severance.
All severed employees will get hush money = 1-2 wks per 6 mos service. Low performers will not get the additional 60 day job search pay.
Also, anyone given a pink slip with or without a job search option was in the Thursday tally. Layoff means a reduction in jobs, not people, as bizarre as that seems.
Microsoft Shuts Down 'Flight Simulator' Game Studio
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2339520,00.asp
The real reasons for the Microsoft layoff: Fear, Incompetence, and Greed
Fear
1. The individual contributor who values quality, integrity and is afraid to speak up and speak the truth because they may loose their job. I know, I am one of them.
2. The H1B and L visa holders who have few options working in the US. I understand why you want to give your families a better life and can't blame you for wanting to live the American dream. I do too. So did my grandparents, immigrants, and my parents, first born citizens. My father a wounded American solider and POW fought hard to preserve the dream to give his children a better life.
- Sadly, my guest worker colleagues, you too are the victim of deception. Make no mistake, you are not here because you're the best and brightest, The reason for your visas has nothing to do with talent, nationality, age, sex, or race – it's got to do with greed – billionaires trying to lower the cost of labor worldwide for their own selfish goals.
3. Fear - the Microsoft culture. Win/Loose. Ambiguous stack ranking lacking standards, checks or quality - resulting in pitting one team member against another. Why help my teammate? He wins, I loose - my job, my home.
Incompetence
1. Incompetent middle management. Their talent, managing up. What about listening to the customer, partner or employee? Middle managers, your job needs to be helping great people do great things. Remove barriers for talent, don’t impose them.
2. Internally focused bloated management promoting cut-throat win/loose culture.. Countless hours and dollars spent hours spent deciding who lives/who dies - what if this same time and energy were spent delighting the customer?
3. Human Resources: Your talent: preventing lawsuits by trumping cases to defend incompetent middle management. Why bother having MSPoll, nothing ever happens to terrible middle managers... What ever happened to the human in human resources - and doing the right things for employees? How can you wake up every morning and feel good about what you do?
3. Greed
Sorry billionaires, you’ve been too worried about your own selfish interests and ignore shareholders, customers, partners, employees and your own country.... What happened to leadership, ethics, accountability, and the truth?
I for one am heartbroken that I am unable to continue to try to do the right thing and be the change inside. I'm tired, sad, and frankly relieved to give up worrying about the worst that can happen. It has. I am now yet another nameless, faceless displaced worker.
It's about time I found my own voice. I feel liberated to speak the truth. I can be the change. Join me in the journey - abandon the fear, speak the truth and do the right thing, be the change and make the world a better place. We have everything we need - us.
You know, in this thread and so many others on this blog, I've read 100s of comments that come down to this:
"I'm an ex-MSFT, I'm glad I left, there's life outside of MSFT, and I'm very happy."
Yet, not once has any of these people even offered a hint of what this "life" outside Microsoft is. I'm getting sick and tired of it. If you're really sincere, how about a bit more substance next time you post?
Thanks to whoever wrote the comment posted on January 23, 2009 9:23:00 PM. There used to be some amazing leaders at MSFT, thanks for reminding us of that. People with vision and technical expertise. I worked for some of the guys mentioned in that post. They were brilliant engineers and managers, two qualities seldom found in the same person (I for one will never be a good manager, it's enough work for me trying to be a good engineer).
There are still people like that at Microsoft, but somehow these days they never seem to rise quite as high in the org as Flessner and Valentine once did. In the age of Steveb it's all about "visibility" and WHO you know, not WHAT you know.
A couple of thoughts:
First:
"I can't control my god-given talents but I can control how much effort I put in so I out-hustle everybody else."
This is the mentality that drags teams down. The team needs to be delivering together, not apart. MS created a competitive culture that used to work well when rewards were high for individual competition, but now it is dogs fighting for scraps of meat. If you interviewed well, worked hard, and stayed for a while, you probably have what it takes to deliver - "outperforming" is the corporate tagline of any Fortune 500.
Next:
"MSFT had enough CASH to offer to buy Yahoo last spring at an exorbidant price, but can't find a way to keep employees working?
Yes, MS is willing to pay $45B for an ailing startup, but will lay off 5000 people to appease Wall Street. The layoff is symbolic, it isn't necessary for the health of the company. Ballmer needs/wants/expects the stock to go up - that's it.
"only people who get promoted are drinking buddies"
Very insightful and very true. It wasn't always like this - the turning point was somewhere in the early 2000s. But now this is precisely what I see now at MS, and it is worse in "culturally concentrated teams", for lack of a better term. Inviting your manager over for dinner, bringing beer to work and "working late", off-campus lunches to which key people are invited, etc. all build this second-life of work outside of work.
The agile putty that was MS has crystalized and now crumbles. Looking back, the company might have been better off spun into many smaller, more agile parts.
Are there still bonuses this year?
Cutting raises is silly. Rather than make the necessary cuts, they make a few and worsen the experience for remaining employees.
I'm still relatively young and in grow-mode. Staying stagnant for a year isn't acceptable. I'm sure my rent won't be the same if I renew my lease. Is there a summary anywhere of what companies are taking what measures? For example, is GOOG cutting raises, bonuses, stock, etc.?
I've never had a problem finding a job. Microsoft was the only company I even applied to upon graduation, since it was where I wanted to work. It was the culture, as well as the history. I'm not liking it quite so much anymore.
With the worsening economic climate, you can scare below-average (and probably some average) people who would (or worry they might) have trouble securing another job. But making it worse for the high performers too?
I probably won't leave, because I still do like Microsoft. Only, when I used to say it, in place of "like" was "love." If this dramatically affects my personal motivation I'll be out immediately. I'm not going to turn into someone who treats work as a chore when it can be so wonderful. Thanks for showing me the latter, Microsoft, even though I'm not sure how long that'll last.
Does anyone know how companies in the area are doing / hiring (Amazon, etc)? I am starting to feel like a chump for coming and working for this company after seeing the poor hiring choices, mismanagement, and lies.
I was with HP when it went through the retirement and eventual passing of the founders. The culture changed dramatically. And the company who never laid off people suddenly went through some drastic downsizing while spending went through the roof.
I was concerned when I heard BillG is truly exiting the business. Steve can talk all he wants about how layoffs are against the corporate culture. Well I guess not enough against the culture for him to implement it.
I would love to see Bill come back in and provide some leadership in this area. He still has some stock in the company, right?
@all of the folks who constantly come here and boast of how they left, found nirvana, and stumbled on a flood of cash and happiness...
Just want to let you know that your story is made a bit harder to swallow by the fact that you are still trolling this blog. If life has become so incredible and fulfilling and financially rewarding, why do you feel compelled to pay any attention to this blog? Clearly MSFT got under your skin and stayed there.
I am sure the answer will be "well I want to help others" Keep believing that. Everyone I know who has left MSFT doesnt for a second look back and certainly no longer trolls mini. They've genuinely moved on (some for better, some not)
Endlessly returning here to beat a drum just smacks of bitterness or desperation.
A lot here lately smacks of that actually. Yes these cuts are misguided and poorly handled. I have friends that got the axe and, for all I know, I may also. Any of us may.
But here's a newsflash... Thats reality. I mean are people out of their minds with this demand for "compassion" and "humanity" and on and on and on? What planet do you people live on?
I have been in the workforce a long time now and the first lesson you learn is business is business and you should never expect to find a "family" out there. Google and Apple are wine and roses now, but ask people how Apple was when times were tough. I have friends laid off from there in the old days and they were treated like crap.
It seems like a lot of folks maybe started at MSFT as naive kids right out of college and never left. Thats a shame because it seems some important life lessons were missed.
Good luck though in the search for a place where you dont have to worry about anything except grinding away on code. Where being opinionated and stating what you believe at any time and in any way you choose is applauded and encouraged. And where you dont have to work for "idiots" or have to be "weighed down" by "overhead" like sales, marketing, finance and IT.
For a group that seems to have it all figured out and knows exactly what "MSFT needs to do if only the idiot SLT could CLUE IN", there is very little business accumen on display. Maybe thats really part of the problem?
The advice here seems to be: "SHUT DOWN E&D, SHUT DOWN SEARCH, SHUT DOWN MOBILE!!"
Definitely great ideas. As computing continues to retreat to two extremes, ultra commodity on one end, and boutique cachet gear on the other, as the internet becomes THE app that matters and ONE company (with a STATED GOAL of eliminating MSFT) *controls* more of it each day, and as mobility emerges as THE platform of the future, the KEY is DEFINITELY not even BOTHERING to compete in those areas and instead "hunkering down, returning to "what we're good at". And that is "shipping products on shiny disks!", I guess.
No mind that "what we're good at" is on the verge of not mattering. What we need to do is just keep pretending that its 1990. That will definitely work as long as we write GREAT CODE.
Yeah. I can see how it would be truly fantastic if engineers ran the company. I guess it would be a lot like Linux. 16 years of work and its as much of a mess as it ever was (and I use Linux daily and have been a UNIX pro since the early 90s) I like Linux. Im glad its around because it means after MSFT maybe I can make lots of money playing with it. But its a mess. Anyone objective sees that. And why is it a mess despite the holy light of the vaunted OSS movement shining brightest on it above all other projects?
Linux is an example of rule by engineers. Over a decade at a price point of FREE and NO gain in capturing the mindshare of regular folks. Distros that continue to diverge and the shiniest and friendliest of them (Ubuntu) does little more than throw a thin veneer over things making it a bit more confusing for the *NIX expert while at the same time not going nearly far enough to make the thing easily usable by someone who doesnt CARE about computers (you know, normal humans)
Apple and Google are THE model for success in the future of computing. Anyone who thinks the KEY to success is to not try to compete with them and just stay quiet and "do what we do" is out of their mind and really amazingly detached from where the industry is going.
Apple, Google and Nintendo vacuum up share and make a pile while winning hearts and minds AND making a joke out of MSFT and the response should be "stay out of their way"???
My heart really goes out to all impacted by the layoff and I know that the cuts will keep coming until we are at 75,000 or so, but some of this is just too far out there to let go even amidst a main topic as sober as the layoff. In some ways it represents the exact thinking that got MSFT into this mess. Ironically, there is NO realization of that but rather a chorus of "its HIS fault! blame the BALD GUY!" (pick one)
Steve has really failed in many ways. But I hesitate to take seriously someone who genuinely feels that the proper answer to Apple and Google is to not compete with them, shut down entire divisions, and just keep making new versions of Windows and Office.
People say "we dont have to be in everything!" as if the SLT is comtemplating making an ice cream flavor or producing a line of garden tools. "Search", "mobility", "internet monetization", "cloud computing", "entertainment devices". How can anyone call themselves any kind of industry expert thinking that these are areas in which MSFT should not invest?!
Looking at the bigger picture, one might even go so far to say Steveb is an irrational leader totally lost, and has been drinking his own koolaid in light of the decline of MSFT for so long...he is in denial of a reality that is blatantly obvious to so many of us inside and outside.
The emperor has no clothes, but he has surrounded himself with nimrods who would tell him all is well and "we are great". Something must be done to break this cycle.
MSFT is a technology company, we need leaders who understand the technology we are in. Steveb is not one of them.
I’ve seen a few lay-offs, belt-tightening periods (aka shrimp and weenies), and major reorgs over the years. They weren’t easy, and sometimes the wrong people were negatively affected, but the changes made strategic sense in the long run.
The captains were able to right the ship and move full steam ahead. I used to admire (most of the time) our leaders in times of crisis. They knew how to visualize the end game, set clear goals, talk to Wall Street, make hard choices, and were more open and up front with employees. They weren’t perfect, but for every misstep, there were many correct steps and some big strides. There were many great days when my company amazed me. This is in contrast to what happened this week, and I am sorry for those affected.
The pre-Ballmer-as-CEO atmosphere inspired and impassioned people, and even made them willing to do crazy things to keep teams inspired, like shaving their heads in the shape of a product logo if teams met hard goals. When things didn’t go so well, they stepped back, analyzed, and took responsibility.
Because we still have amazing people, and a strong precedent for doing the right thing, I’m hopeful that Microsoft will pull itself through. We need powerful people to help clear away obstacles, though. Bill and the board, do you hear us? Do you understand how much Microsoft needs you to make hard decisions about our leadership?
Instead, I see Ballmer grabbing at straws, focusing way too narrowly on GOOG. We should be looking six to ten steps ahead, like Bill did. Where is the next end run/killer app/astonishing service, and how can we deliver it to customers on a silver platter. I don’t think Ballmer has the vision to do this.
Additionally, his rabid hiring and acquiring has put us in the place we are today, with random and duplicate strategies popping up like mad prairie dogs. Why do we need collateral in our snail mail boxes to tell us about internal programs, i.e. a new employee health site, when HR could use a perfectly good blog (the one that Lisa abandoned)?
The flood of people has also driven up Puget Sound area housing and daycare prices, and schools are overflowing. And for people who bought homes recently, or left for whatever reason and came back at higher prices, mortgages are at risk of, or are already, underwater. Add lay-offs to that, and some people are simply screwed. No wonder some people in the Puget Sound don‘t like Microsoft. It may help drive the economy, but it has messed up some local dynamics.
For all of you complaining about H1Bs... Think about this: Microsoft said "We need you so much we're going to move all your stuff and your family to Redmond." If they've now been laid off, guess what they get? Their severance and a single plane ticket. For them. They have to pay to fly their family back to their home country. And they have to either abandon their stuff or themselves pay to ship it. If U.S. law didn't require it, Microsoft wouldn't even buy the plane ticket.
That's just mean!
So, have some sympathy please!
I truely believe that the layoff is a good move for Microsoft although it may not be good enough(size wise).
It is very important that Microsoft doesn't cut too much into the pay to high level officers (partner level and above).
If the leader of the org is not happy about his/her job, the org will not be healthy.
Average Joes don't have much of the bargain power so hurting them a little bit doesn't hurt much.
BTW, I'm an average joe as well but seriously I fully understand and support the decision to cut low level workers' pay but not the high level managers' pay.
You want to kick out those non-performers in high level but keep performers happy.
Once they're happy and if they're really good managers, they will make the team healthy and happy even if the company cuts the pay to all team members except leaders.
It is business so this is the simple truth.
Steve said that what matters now is market share. I know for Zune this is a bit crazy, we are supporting Mobile 7 and XBox, I believe these are our two reasons for living right now.
The music experience on iPhone... trying to take market share from iPhone by creating a better mobile music experience is a crazy task, almost impossible.
We're very lucky to have this opportunity to work for Microsoft, to be relatively shielded from the economic reset, stop your bitching and start thinking about how you're going to take market share, in whatever group you are in. I know for our group, our task is insane, impossible, and hard to imagine... exactly the type of problem I love to solve.
We have a mission. The company realigned to help us win on our mission. Market Share.
I'm going to do my part by focusing on that mission. Stop all the bitching and tell us how you are going to help Microsoft win in this unprecedented reset, or go home.
Someone tell me a better strategy than what they did, to win market share.
The only guy on our team that was affected was 45 years of age.
We know many people that got laid off were below and over that age. (because MSFT is not stupid)
However, there should be a poll to see if the majority were in a specific age range or group. This may indicate those in a higher age range being targeted.
"Yet, not once has any of these people even offered a hint of what this "life" outside Microsoft is. I'm getting sick and tired of it. If you're really sincere, how about a bit more substance next time you post?"
How about this? I left 8 months ago after 8 years at the company. I picked up and moved my family across country as a result of the job change. Is my life better? 300% better. I am making 3X what I was making at Microsoft. Yes, 3X!!!! Sure the benefits are not as great, but with 3X the pay I can afford a few co-pays and deductibles. I have a great team, the company respects me, the leadership listens to me and trusts and empowers me to do great things. I work for a profitable company that knows how to treat employees and is actually hiring (I have 3 .NET developer openings on my team alone). So, yes, there is life after Microsoft, better paying life, life with more respect and life with more satisfaction.
Do you know how many millionaires and well to do and just generally happy people there are in the US? And you know what? They don't all work for Microsoft. Your comment smacks of someone who has never held a job outside MSFT. Time to wake up.
While I fully support the layoff and would like to see a bigger cut, I will recommend deep cut in the following areas:
1. MSIT
Unfortunatelly none is cut from MSIT. I would suggest to grab one above average dev/test in any other org to replace an entire team in MSIT
MSIT people have no technical skills. None of them understands how SQL works or how to edit a registry key.
After a 50%-90% cut in MSIT, the rest can be all downgrade to level 50 where they really deserve.
2. AD center
Cut from the top (SVP level). It is better just to get rid of the whole org.
If that can not be done, then revert all promotions done for the group. None of them deserves any promotion any way.
3. Windows Mobile
Every one in that org except those who just joined should be downgrade two levels at least.
It is really a joke for the job done. iPhone and gPhone beat the hell out of them. Show some accountability.
Yes, ICs should take the responsibility too for not jumping the ship before it sinks.
4. Zune dev/test/PM
Every one should be shamed of themselves. PM for bad urly design. Devs for no innovation and laughed-by-everybody bad coding. Tests for not-be-able-to-find-bugs.
How about one level downgrade for everyone in that org?
5. Windows Test team
Some of them are really good but some of them are just aweful. Find out bad teams and get rid of them.
6. Dynamics and CRM
It maybe a good idea to just admit the defeat in these areas. Siebel is so bad but they just are worse. CRM database devs should all be shamed of themselves. When a DB dev use m_xxx as a DB column name, he should be shown the door immediately. CRM architects should all be downgraded to level 60 for poor designs and being arrogant.
7. Office org
There are so many people here doing nothing. Office lab can be cut in half.
Excel devs know nothing about the codes and really are scared to death to touch any codes.
8. Exchange server
Get rid of arrogant leaders who refuse to use SQL.
Half of people here can downgrade one level for poor performance.
9. Windows PM
A lot of principle level PMs should be fired. All they do is drinking coffee or tea.
10. MSN
Sell the piece for 100 million if we can be lucky enough to find a buyer. Get rid of the whole org.
Is any manager , VP , SVP , anybody other then foot soldiers is axed ??
I am sure no one , cause we all know performence does not matter. all your relations with your boss matter here.
The worst part? All of the "Sleepless in Seattle" news headlines about this. Fuck the press.
I cannot believe we're still blowing money on search. The 360 may be a pit of money, but the 360 is awesome. Search? It sucks and it's a pit. I am baffled.
worry by investors that the gig is up for Windows
Are you assuming then that investors are idiots?
Surely they've all read at least one glowing review of Windows 7. I don't know if it's going to kick ass when it comes out, but there's been an overwhelming amount of positive press for it so far. And it is still just Beta 1.
Interesting that a lot of the "view from the street" comments come from some of the companies that started this whole economic mess.
and simply cannot stress the fact about how messed up testing is at ms...I seriously expected some layoffs to occur in our testing teams especially in our test management, but as i can say, nothing happened there..they found some scapegoats and these jokers were left around to hang in there...
Please be more specific. What's wrong with how we test?
I'm an ex-MSFT, I'm glad I left, there's life outside of MSFT, and I'm very happy.".. how about a bit more substance next time you post?
I'm not the original poster, but being an ex-msft I agree with this and others with similar ideas. I have a great life now. Don't think much about it if you're in that process - Keep it cool - Leave with elegance no mattter what your situation is. Granted my time at Microsoft was great. Some good moments, some not so good though, but that's the way it's through life. There's a beginning and an end to all experiences. I learnt that the important aspect is to recognize when it's time to end gracefully. I waited for a bit more than I should, so my last months were not that good - but that was my fault and no one else. Overall my time at MS was great - can't complain. I grew up profesionally and personally. I met lots of folks from so many nationalities and backgrounds and that enriched my life tremendously.
Good luck to all of you affected by the recent cuts. Things can only get better from here.
As an ex-MS employee, I can tell you that there is a world beyond MS with far greater potential.
This can't be stressed enough. I was an SDE at Microsoft from 2000-2004. What I had hoped would be the best years of my career turned out to be anything but. Not only did I find it nearly impossible to make any sort meaningful contribution there, but I also couldn't stand the emphasis on process and bureaucracy over quality and innovation.
Seriously, whatever happened to hiring engineers to write great code? I spent more time learning how to "manage up" and compete politically than I did keeping my technical skills up-to-date. And for what? The privilege of pulling my hair out month after month wondering if I would be the poor schmuck who fell into the 3.0 bucket that year because I didn't spend enough time parading around like a fool?
Well, four years of that game was enough and I finally left in disgust. Now I work for a competitor in Silicon Valley who makes great products that Ballmer loves to mock. (*cough* iPhone *cough*) But that's OK, Steve. At least now I have engaged management that gives me the tools and support I need to help make those products the best they can be. In other words, management that pushes me be a great engineer on a great team rather than a self-serving, backstabbing crony.
So to my all friends and colleges at MS who are tired of sailing on a sinking ship, my advice is to take a good look at the world around you. Not only is MS losing relevance in nearly every sector, but there are far more pleasant and rewarding places to build a career.
Who do you love more, Steve? Employees or stockowners? A week ago I would have sworn you'd never do it. You did it. Piss on you.
And Flight Sim? WTF were you thinking? How many other games do we have that started on the TRS-80? You shuttered a game with 7 Guinness World Records, a cottage industry around add-ons, and a cult following. You could have built an AppStore for the game.
I'm sorry, but you need to board your FAILPLANE and go. And a pox on you if you leave that game running in the visitor center one more day.
Yet, not once has any of these people even offered a hint of what this "life" outside Microsoft is. I'm getting sick and tired of it. If you're really sincere, how about a bit more substance next time you post?
What do you want to know? Everybody's experience is different I guess. You can't define "life outside MSFT" because there are as many experiences as there are people. I think the people who post those messages just want to let softees know that it's OK to envision life after Microsoft. I know when I left it was very hard for me to pull the trigger because after almost 10 years being a Microsoft employee was a big part of my identity. I'm sure that for a lot of you guys it's more than just a job, so there's an emotional aspect to that decision to cut the cord.
I can't speak for anyone else but I can tell you a few things about MY life outside MS
No, I don't make 40 or even 20% more than I did before. It's a little better. Salary is higher, benefits aren't as good.
I fit better where I am now. I was an IC at Microsoft and I was plateauing. In my last year my manager was trying to "broaden" my scope by giving me unofficial lead responsibilities and it was a miserable experience. With my new employer I feel like I have more room to grow as an IC. I have been given stretch lead-type assignments there too and surprisingly this time around it didn't make me feel like a cheap whore.
I am not afraid to help my co-workers anymore and I get recognized for it. Peer feedback is part of the review process and my manager made a big deal in my last review of the fact that I was pulling less experienced team members upwards.
I have seen accountability and I like it! I have seen fear in the eyes of senior people. Being a senior manager of managers will not protect you from being shown the door if you failed to deliver on your project. The flip side of that coin is that pressure flows downwards and you will have to work long hours when deadlines are at stake. Some of my coworkers who couldn't handle it and wanted to "spend more time with their families" took jobs at ... you guessed it ... Microsoft!
It's not all sunshine and rainbows out there. Actually one of the downside of leaving was that I felt I had lost job security compared with my Microsoft days. Well, Steveb sure took care of that with his little stunt. I am sure that a lot of good people will realize that without job security MSFT's value proposition as an employer isn't any better than what you can get elsewhere.
sad day for microsoft. good luck to all those who were impacted by this yesterday and those who will be be laid-off in future.
something is really wrong with our culture. executives are busy promoting themselves and putting a positive spin on everything. Exhibit A - Chris Liddell. In town hall Mr. CFO trumpeted search revenue as growing faster than Google’s 18% growth for the quarter. What a Dumbass! Google made $1.5B in profit in the quarter. What did OSB make for the quarter?
Anyone know an employment lawyer in Bellevue / Redmond that is *not* affiliated with MS?
You can do a search on martindale.com.
This one looks good:
http://www.sgb-law.com
PLEASE cut the middle level managers, even half of them is understate, and restructure the whole company. the company structure needs to be flat.
that's the only way you can save a such huge company.
Did anyone notice yesterday what Liddell say about the client division's forecasting for last quarter? I actually had to go and watch the webcast after it was posted to see if I had heard him correctly.
Management had expected "traditional growth of 10-12%" in the client space. Excuse me. They have been going under the assumption that shipments would not be impacted by the recession? That is pure incompetence.
They are unable to provide guidance? What? They understand the Microsoft variables but they have zero insight into the global economic variables? How the heck can other companies give guidance? Why was Steve continually commenting that he and Liddell went and studied previous economic downturns? Do we not have economists on the payroll?
Lisab may have been a great manager when she was in the trenches but the only thing she has done since she took over HR was make employees distrust HR even more. As far as her clothes that people have mentioned, she has always been a slob even before she took over HR.
What the heck is wrong with Steve? Instead of focusing on Microsoft, its people and products, he is hung up on things like crushing Apple in one breath and then dismissing them in the next.
No bonus? You think our executives want to remove millions of dollors from their bonus paycheck?
"A small bit of good news: John Lervik has resigned. He was CEO of FAST when it was acquired by Microsoft, and while the technology is good, the continuing investigation by the Norwegian authorities over financial irregularities (read: fraud) has definitely been an annoyance."
Yeah, and someone also realized that FAST will be a perfect nightmare to bring into MOSS as well, and called Lerviks bullshit references?
Lots of good PMs and DEVs were let go starting in 2001. Basically if anyone stood up to their manager and said they wanted to deliver actual useful features that customers would want and actually upgrade XP to, they were pushed out. If the PM did actual productive work instead of kissing his bosses ass, he was doomed to a low rating and a quick exit.
Surprised that HR has not seen deep cuts. Most HR groups measure success by counting the activities, not success - From HR generals to management excellence to org capability experts.
Stop whining and move on folks. If you were cut, that's all it is. Don't look for lawyers to get you more money just find a job. This happens all the time and just because software people are overpaid doesn't mean they need to be overpampered. Frankly, I think MS is doing its shareholders a disservice by offerring such a larger severence package.
About the fact that Lidell and Turner and ultimately Steve seems surprised by the result dip.
It does not surprise me one bit.
Last June when we did sales budgeting for FY09, our warnings that our region was heading for recession was totally ignored by our area "leadership". The chain of command is totally aiming at doing just one thing, keeping the scorecard green and looking good to their superiors. The main culprit here is Kevin Turner and his scorecard mania. What it leads to is that there are too many people working with counting money instead of going out making money by helping customers and doing deals.
Kevin, please hand over to someone else. You have no trust inside SMSG whatsoever. All people reporting to you have people reporting to them that will not tell you the truth about their forecast and business prospects. So you will always be surprised by the results.
And please Kevin, stop the cliché "thank you for all that you do" bullsh*t. You don't have a clue what I do, because it's not in your scorecard.
These cuts aren't near enough.
Trouble is that the rating system doesn't identify the bottom performers. Many 10% are good and many of the 70% are awful. I've seen many people who contribute nothing of value still get bonuses and good reviews.
Way more cuts are needed in the field.
Has anyone noticed that the manager feedback tool was eliminated for this Mid-Year?? Just another example of management's ability to say one thing and do another... "we care about employee feedback"... as long as it doesn't call out our incompetence. The one time I really wanted and am passionate about providing feedback on the most signifigant event in my tenure with Microsoft and I have the MIC turned off. Sad...
As an alumnus, I feel the layoffs were a blunder that will cost Microsoft far more in goodwill and trust among current and future employees than any short term gain to be found on Wall Street. But, I'm not the one looking at the cash flow numbers so I'm reluctant to second guess SteveB in this regard.
So far as the H1B employees are concerned, I have never worked with better people. Most of them had to overcome enormous difficulties just to get here and their fortitude and talent have breached obstacles that most would find daunting.
I doubt I'll work at Microsoft again as I prefer a somewhat faster pace with greater rewards for risk, but I wouldn't totally rule it out.
I will say that I am very disappointed with the performance of the stock and I believe Microsoft's aversion to risk and "me too" new product strategy is not a formula for outstanding future success.
Good luck to all those let go. There is life after Microsoft and with a little luck yours will be a better one.
I love the positive comment about Brian Valentine. Wow, does anyone remember Vista? Those of us in test were literally SCREAMING in meetings that Vista would be the biggest turd. In fact, I remember distinctly saying to another tester: it is almost as if they want to throw Vista in the face of the user saying YOU WANT SECURITY SO BAD? HERE!
My test team during the vista timeframe had layoffs. Twice. When more than half the team is let go, that isn't small potatoes, and I know for a fact other teams lost people around the same time as well. No business needs for certain people or certain levels was the excuse. Still, it is a layoff no matter how you try to pretty it up.
The reality is that a manager and GM were brought in to clean house. He did, and we produced Vista. Then that same manager decided he could eliminate ALL of test (I kid you not) and went millions over budget to try to make that happen. The project in my eyes was a complete failure, but they can't kill it because of the costs already incurred. And that manager? He has moved on to MSN. Good luck guys.
Yet, not once has any of these people even offered a hint of what this "life" outside Microsoft is. I'm getting sick and tired of it. If you're really sincere, how about a bit more substance next time you post?
OK, I'm one of them... Instead of giving you my life story, let me just paraphrase by stating that I'm a startup guy at heart. I came to Seattle in 92 to build a startup, but when it failed, I needed money and healthcare so I joined MS.
Somehow I found myself at MS for ten years, and as that anniversary loomed, and I found myself unhappy with the people/structure I worked for, I left. Same stuff mentioned here... very distributed decision making, inefficient processes, financially driven decision making, bloated staffing, etc. I left a group (Games) that I thought I'd never leave... I mean, how bad could working on video games be? But as I've learned, who you work with/for can have more effect on your overall contentment. I remember something my GM said to me when I told him I disagreed with a re-org he was planning that would put me in a group with a vastly different style than mine, "You cannot choose who you work for." Well, I could... by leaving.
For context, for anout 2 years before I left I had been yearning to do another startup. I even had meetings with small groups of other Softies who felt the same. BUT, I was no longer single and in my 20s... I have a family, a mortgage, etc... So I couldn't take a huge risk or gamble all my savings. So when I left MS, I jumped to a mid-sized company. I quickly became a GM overseeing approx. 1/4 of the company's business and was having a great time running that business, learning a TON of new stuff, and doing it all with a really great team. But then the 'recession' hit and my entire business was laid off, myself included.
So that was a huge bummer especially for the team which worked really well together. I'm still trying to get some of them back together at my new gig - that's how good they were. But it also was the step-"down" from MS I needed to just join a startup. Heck, if I can get laid off from a mid-sized company (and as we all know now, from MS too), then I might as well go do what I really wanted to do which is another startup.
So today I am building up a new business, hiring folks (jump to my pathetic blog for brief job descriptions), and having an awesome time. Sure, the gig is fraught with risk, but that's what drives me. When I was in MS Research, with little constraint, there was no fear of failure and easy for complacency to creep in.
So pros and cons of life "outside MS" at a small startup...
Pros -
- Tons of responsibility and accountability
- A focused business where success means your paycheck (rather than being damped by Windows/Office revenues)
- Far more transparency - I know the financial situation, status of future business, etc...
- I have a say on EVERYONE who is hired so the team will be tight
- I am never bored (you have to share the load regardless of job title...)
- Better parking than I've seen the last few years at MS
Cons:
- Overall comp is lower than MS, but MS isn't minting any non-partner millionaires anymore
- You must carry a larger responsibility load and you must cover many "jobs" [but that's what I love about it]
- I fly coach now
- I do miss the convenience of the cafeterias, and the luxuries of usablity, market research, MS Library, etc.
But that's just my story, and for those who aren't driven by what I've described, I have many friends who've jumped from MS to Amazon, Adobe, Google, etc... and gone on to great success and happiness. It does depend a bit on your role. Devs have it easier since all these firms need and value devs. I was always a PM-type and those don't do well at say Google which acts like MS of 15+ years ago where PM was still establishing itself.
I do have many MS friends who joined MS straight out of school. I think without the context of having worked anywhere else, it's difficult to imagine life outside.
When I joined MS, I cared only about what I worked on. I felt that MS was so big with so many different product groups, that if I ever got bored with what I was working on, I could switch groups, and I did that. But as I got wiser, I realized the culture, decision making process, etc... have a huge impact on happiness. And for me, I'm happiest where I make visible impact and own the decisions that affect my future. When I realized even the VPs at MS don't have that, I realized that MS was not where I wanted to further invest my career in. You're only going to be working for about 40 years... spend it wisely and invested in yourself.
When is the next Board of Directors meeting? SteveB needs to be ousted, as he has failed to understand economics and he has failed to get rid of people like LisaB and Robbie Bach. Imagine the problems MS would be in if we actually spent +$44 billion on Yahoo? We'd be in debt right now, the economy is crap, and a helluva lot more than 5000 would be getting riffed.
was anyone suprised by Lisa's comment that people were "thanking" her as they were shown the door? huh even I, who still love the company was a bit suprised by the air of her comments.
Regarding Aces Studios (Flight Simulator team) being closed, I wonder, if the strategy there is to remove the talent for making great PC games, and therefore remove the threat to consoles within Microsoft. Myopia of Bach and others that think console games are the way of the future? Just a thought.
If that is the case, some great new talent is now available to create lots of new PC games out there, not making money for Microsoft.
Considering PC games are 14% of the market given the lack of corporate muscle behind them, is an astonishing indicator that the PC market is an extraordinarily profitable and important segment.
I just hope they fire whoever was responsible for that Songsmith commercial.
Its a sad day indeed. The Townhall was a wash. Lisa said in a sublte way "Yeah, tough sh*t, be glad you got your job". She did a poor job.
For the first time in many years, I feel that this is the beginning of the end. Such a powerful company budging to investor pressure for short term results.
I am in Exceeded almost consistently and even got a 4.5 once. But for the first time ever, I don't want to stick around anymore. There are better companies out there who don't penalize worker bees for the management mistakes.
Steve's passion is good for product promotion but not being a CEO. We need a thinking CEO instead of a yelling CEO. I miss Bill.
To those who are ranting about SteveB decision regarding the layoff etc.and clamouring the comeback of BillG. Do you realized that all the decisions made by SteveB have the approval and support of BillG and the board?
I've worked at MSFT for 10 years in a non-exempt position. In those 10 years I've seen thousands of dollars go to waste with vitually no one held accountable for it. I've seen lousy employees promoted into positions they have no business being in, simply because they share weekend martinis with their managers. I've seen good employees passed over for positions they were clearly qualified for, so someone could bring in their best buddy (can you say relocation package?). I've seen expense reports for "business dinners" that could pay my monthly mortgage.
My question is who's going to get a bonus and why. I don't trust the current management to make these decisions based on performance. Those of us who come to work every day and provide superior support to our teams get nothing. An extra 10 shares of worthless stock is hardly a reward for a job well done.
I remember the day when Ballmer took an office in Red West just to have some control in MSN internet business. That was a long time ago and he had a poor judgement even at that time. Even now his judgement is poor and he got to go. A lot of his decisions are not driven by sound analysis and just by sheer arragance. The people who saw company meetings in late 90s would remember this pretty well. He always says "we need to destroy this company, that company, etc..". Most of his decisions based on a lot of emotions, just cannot stand to see other companies do well in certain areas.
He is still wrong. When asked about the portfolio in the earnings conference, he said "I like the portfolio... The board likes it". Wrong. The portfolio is the whole problem. Microsoft keeps wasting billions dollars on unprofitable business. He wants to spend more money on search? What a joke. If we want our job security we have to make him leave. Only board can directly fire him and this board is corrupted to the bones. Only way to get rid of the board of directors is to organize a massive email campaign to vote them out. Have you ever heard about a CEO this incompetent surviving this long. Have you heard about Carli Fiorina I think who is much smarter than Steve Ballmer who got fired in a very short time because she could not deliver. We need that kind of a board of directors. Just this what Yahoo CEO said yes to the Microsofts't unimaginably expensive offer. If that happened today layoff numbers would have been 15000, not 5000.
I worked many years for Microsoft and I decided to leave soon. I wanted to work about another five years, but I think the working environment would be horrible in the short term with all kind of dirty politics played just for survival. I value my health and happiness better than going through that kind of a madness. I know things are hard out there to find other opportunities, but I will survice somehow. Good luck to rest of you.
Fellow ex-softies. I have the definitive answer. A higher up manager at Microsoft who has been a friend of mine for 12 years told me off the record. And it is not pretty.
As a background I was cut on Thursday. I have been with the company for 11 years. I was 1 of 4 cur from our workgroup of 26. All of us are award winners, 1 recently promoted, good to excellent reviews, all 9-16 years of service, all senior with capability, experience and age. I have seen the other grief expressed here from others also caught and similarily confused and dismayed. So what was the magic formula used? Total overhead burdened costs. Yep sick and twisted and counter intuitive as it sounds, the ones that succeed the most, get rewarded the most, advance the most will have the most age, salary, bonus and stock. But there is one final piece that may or may not shock you. Ready..... total insurance consumption and burden. There exists some formula that looks at your total burden on the company. Performance and capability are not at all part of this formula. Only if there is a close tie will they look to performance to break the tie.
So lets examine the 4 people from my workgroup that got laid off. One had a wife that went through shoulder surgery in the last year had a lot of rehab costs, one had back surgery in the last year and had similar rehab costs, one has had a couple of biopsies and is pre-cancerous and the last one has had some ongoing issues with anxiety, depression and manic/depressive disorder and on a bunch of ongoing medication. This formula has both current and projected benefits costs burden on the company. The older you get the higher the projected burden will be.
Another piece of information in the info packets is a sheet called Workgroup Summary:Your Decisional Unit looks almost like a mistake to be included. It basically compares your work group and lists title, age and labor grade with no names. Interesting corrolation amongst about 100 of us on FaceBook is that we were all basically the oldest or next to oldest hit.
Now I am sure that at least a few got hit due to some performance issues. But the bulk did not. So why 4 from my group and why the 4? The VP looked at our headcount and average utilization. The VP decided we were 3-4 heads too heavy but in reality we were not. People are lazy about recording their time and utilization so the numbers are not accurate. Once the VP came to the conclusion that 4 needed to be cut the top 4 burdened employee costs were selected. I actually feel sorry for the management left with the remainder. The younger, less experienced, less capable. I know that the 3 that got cut along with me had been used many times to mop up the mess left behind by others in the group. So the ones in the group that were recently awarded, promoted, gold star, patents, great reviews are now gone and the only sin was using insurance benefits for something other than a cold.
In some ways it is surreal and out of some manifesto. Taking jobs from each according to their contributions and giving jobs to the least capable.
HR will not deviate from their prepared sentence and I am sure it is to avoid being sued. I asked multiple times which category that I failed in that caused me to be selected. Was it job function (all 26 had the same title and role), skills (we all had some of the highest skills), experience (well we were the oldest and most experienced inside and outside of Microsoft), knowledge (with patent and other contribution awards this was not an issue), geography(we were scattered in virtual teams), business needs(we all were fuly loaded and fully busy with customers assigned). So the only factor is not one of these and that is why HR refuses to give me the respect and open and honest discussion.
My the manager friend explained it that we were the oldest and highest insurance burden it became crystal clear.
I have been laid off before. The reasons were clear and evident to everyone. In this situation I can't imagine a more pathetic and unprofessional way to handle things. It just goes to show you how much the company has decayed since Bill turned over the reigns.
I leave behind many friends and some very close friends. They are also confused and in the dark. With 5000 new heads to be cut in 18 months they are all afraid of their shadow. This is classic rule by fear and intimidation. I was dismayed when I found out I was cut, then angry when I found out the criteria. But now after a good drunken evening with my friends that are current and ex-Softies I am glad I got cut first. I don't have to worry any longer. I have nearly 2/3 of a year of severance.
There is a group looking into other options. But for me I am going to take the package. With my patents, 10+ years of Microsoft on my resume, awards letters, emails from Microsoft managers and a good job market where I am I can relax and have no worries about finding a better place that will appreciate my contributions more and a place that I will have much more respect for the management.
Cutting 1400, immediately opening 3000 requisitons, then promising 5000 more cuts over 18 months is all about fear, intimidation, dangling the carrot. Give me 1 reason to cut 1400 heads and immediately open 3000 requisitions and not allow the 1400 to apply until after seperation. They want to cut 1400 experienced and expensive heads and hire 3000 new and cheap heads. The 3000 will be new, malleable and cheap. The time and expense to hire and train will cost the company more money than they saved in direct and indirect productivity costs. It will also be a clear and visible reminder to the ones left behind that they better work the job twice as hard to not be one of the 5000. This is a classic and fatal management mistake. The capable will find a better place and leave. Working twice as hard usually produces half the results. I truly feel sorrow and empathy for my friends that work for Microsoft. I know they were all excited when they were employed. I know they are all scared and dismayed now.
>>After seeing multiple references to "layed off", the Grammar Nazi in me could not be contained any longer: the past tense of layoff is laid off.
Actually, "layoff" is a noun, and "laid off" is the past tense of "lay off"
>>Mini
The truth needs to be told.
For fuck's sake. It's not a conspiracy. The taxonomy is supposed to match the diversity of the group. In my case it did - you get the sheet that shows this.
"I believe I know the fatal flaw at Microsoft. It is the arcane notion that someone in their role for more than like 18 months is limited."
Speaking as someone who has worked leading MS competitors for over a decade, I have to say the limited policy is one of the policies at MS that's striked me as a just plain crazytown recipe for the Peter Principle in action. (And, to steal a line from Adam Smith, "the highest degree of insolence and presumption.")
>>>Yet, not once has any of these people even offered a hint of what this "life" outside Microsoft is. I'm getting sick and tired of it. If you're really sincere, how about a bit more substance next time you post?
OK, I'll provide some insight. Here's some brief insights into what life is like outside of MSFT, at least for me.
Background: I was at MSFT from 1995-2007. Level 67 Marketing in E&D. Over the course of my 12 years, I worked on a variety of established and emergining products, in both US & Int'l roles. I managed teams ranging from 3 people to 16 people.
I currently work at a Seattle start-up, approx 2 years old, and about 30 people. We are in the technology sector and are a platform-agnostic product. I am VP of Marketing managing 3 people.
1. Email
Then - literally 24/7. First thing when I got out of bed in the morning, Last thing before I went to bed at night. Weekends, holidays, even when home sick or on vacation, trying to keep up with the tsunami that is email inside MSFT - especially with senior management who led the example of working this way and expecting you to do the same. Email was the primary form of communication between people & groups, even when they are just next door to you.
Now - 8am-6pm M-F. Nights, weekends, holidays if I choose to or because I am motivated to share some insight or idea with folks on the team. But the input during the week is manageable and never overwheleming. Vacation means just that, vacation. You really don't have to worry about what is in your inbox when you return because the team helps manage for you. When we need information or clarification, we walk down the hall, talk to each other, and move on.
2. Marketing Plans & Programs
Then - endless weeks of time spent developing 40-page plans that no one really ever read, but needs to be produced to show you had done all your "strategic thinking" and analyzed the situation to death. More weeks spent reveiwing with so many different groups who had to have input, approval, whatever - often with people who didn't have a clue about marketing. Don't get me wrong, I don't mind explaining stratgey and suggested exectuion plan to those in other disciplines - but can you please trust my expertise & passion to win (just like you with your job) a little on a few key principals just this once? Forget about being nimble and reacting quickly to opportunity or market changees, too. Its just not realistic in a company the size and complexity of MSFT.
Now - okay, so I don't have the luxury of spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on focus groups, pr programs, advertising campaigns, and support agencies. But I do get to actually think about what we need to do over the course of 30-60-90-120 days and then do it. Planning cxonsists of usually 3 slides outlining the tactics, timing and cost reveiwed with the 3 other department heads to make sure we're all aligned. They ask good questions, and even if they don't agree, give me the benefit of the doubt to try. More often than not, though, their ideas are good & additive to the plans, rather than MSFT where the input was often more grounded in "let me show you how much smarter I am than you by sh*tting all over you plans." Something changes in the marketplace? A window of opportunity opens or an unforseen problem arises? We revise, adapt, and move on. It can be frustating at times, especially when you're excited about some marketing activity you had planned to do, but it can also be exhilrating to once again know you can affect change quickly & effectively.
3. Team Cohesivness
Then - ranking on a curve. Working my a*s off and still be unsure if I was doing enough to be "visible" to those that mattered when it came time for review ('cause it sure wasn't just my manager who had to know who I was). Worrying about speaking up and offending those above you which results in some long-term impact on your next review or even job. Interdepartmental turf wars over who "owns" that decision. Bigger management wars on budget/headcount/empire building. Learning too late that your poject/efforts are in complete contradiction to someone else's business goals (in the same department or even team). Managing growth & careers for your team in a healthy, positive way - virtually none existant.
Don't get me wrong, I had a few (very few) awesome managers while I was there - people who gave me "hard" but genuine feedback in order to help me grow professionally; people who took the time to challenge me with new opportunites & programs to help me stretch but provide the support to ensure I didn't have to learn in a vacuum; managers who fought for me in stack ranking meetings even when it would have been politically more expediant to just let me get thrown out of the liferaft (old time MSFTies, remember that stack-rank metaphor)?Unbeleievable bureacracy for the decision-making process.
Now - the company wins, we all win - and are rewarded for it - from the CEO down to the receptionist at the front desk. Not equally of course, but certainly not grossly disproportionate either. Really - we all want the company to win, not just ourselves. We have clear goals and aligned direction that are discussed and reveiwed every month as a team to adjust as appropriate. We trust and learn from each other, and are all smarter for it. Is it perfect? By no means. We still find ourselves occaisional disagreeing over an imporant business decision, competing for budget and resources (after all, we're a small company and only have XX $ in the bank). Egos clash, tempers flare, and feathers get ruffled. But nobody gets penalized for it. Also, there's no place to hide in a company our size - you need to do your job, do it well, and do it every day. No resting & vesting or hiding failure behind choice buzzwods and excuses. Your accountability and contributions are tangible to the company's growth & success every day. And yes, executives as well as others in the company have been fired (not "leaving to spend more time with their families" or "moving on to other groups") for continued poor performance in their areas.
4. Reality
Then - free drinks, catered meetings, 5-star hotels for travel, execellent benefits, a powerful brand, and everyone returned my calls even if it was a cold call.
Now - free drinks (though a smaller selction), the occaisional catered meeting (but only occaisionally and then its box lunches who food from the teriyaki place down the block); 3-star hotels for business travel, and good benefits (I have a small co-pay on a few things but premiums are 100% paid). Our company and brand is relatively unkinown globally, but we're growing an excellent reputation in our field nationally. People may not return my calls now quite so easily, but I have a wonderful network of associates, contacts, and friends who are willing to try and help broker introductions, just as I am for them. But if not, well, that's business in the real world and you just keep trying!
Sorry for the long post & typos - and there is so much more I could touch one - but to the OP who is sick and tired of hearing about it without more details, I hope this has helped you get a little perspective. Rarely does anyone leave MSFT because they are happy and fulfilled in their jobs, so its natural that you hear the "wow, its so better" refrain over and over again in this blog. But the truth simply is, MSFT is a very unrealistic workplace and dysfunctional place to try and function unless you (a) really just don't care anymore and do only what you need to do from 9-5 or (b) are one of the very select few who have climbed the ladder, have a manager above you that protects you at all costs, and have learned how to work the system. For the rest of us - who staill want to challenge ourselves yet still have work-life balance, take pride in what we do, and feel valued for our contributions at the end of the day, there are options out there.
Best wishes to all who have *had* to leave this week and those who are thinking about it. There is professional life beyond MSFT. To those who find the need to respond to this post - and only my own experience - with a snarky comment then I ask, "and what are you so angry/arrogant about that you need to respond that way?" If your experience outside of MSFT has been different, then share with the folks here. If your experience inside MSFT has been positive, then good for you, too. This is just one man's perspective on the reality that MSFT was and what life on the outside is like now..
I got laid off on Thursday with a seven week severance. I would like to donate some of that money to Lisa so that she can buy a pair of decent clothes, so that the next time she atends the company or townhall meeting she will be appropriately dressed for the occasion. Wondering if Microsoft will match my donation.
Re recommendations for places to search for jobs, here is a list of resources to consider:
monster
yahoo hotjobs
craigslist
careerbuilder
jobster
dice
volt
siemens
excell data
sqlsoft
seattletechstartups.com (to get a sense of startups in the area)
npost
(directly to career sites of companies in the area - Real, Amazon, Google, Comcast, TMobile,Univ of Washington, etc.)
HTH
so many partners, so little done!
so many GMs, so little clue!
so many VPs, so much mess!
Still, don't know where to cut!
Yet, not once has any of these people even offered a hint of what this "life" outside Microsoft is. I'm getting sick and tired of it. If you're really sincere, how about a bit more substance next time you post?
I agree -- but, I'm guessing the majority of posters are those with an axe to grind and want to vent a bit. Those who are really bitter, leaving by choice or not is the best thing for you AND the company.
I personally love my job at MSFT. I've worked on a few teams -- some were better fits than others. I'm mid career and have worked at many companies -- some big, some small. All have some strengths and weaknesses.
For the folks really bitter, maybe the problem is with you, not the company. Maybe you're not a good fit -- I've seen great people fail in some jobs, and have seen so-so people rise and get inspired in the right environment.
MSFT is far from perfect, but it's the best environment I've been in. For those who can find greener pastures -- awesome! Don't go away mad, just go away.
Does anyone know if there were any attempts to spin off or sell projects like FlightSim and PopFly? Projects like that might thrive away from the high overhead large corporate environment.
It is a shame that Microsoft has never figured out how to run small projects profitably. As just one idea, Microsoft could provide financing so employees could buy out small products. Then the projects could run in the lean environment needed for take off.
>"Someone tell me a better strategy than what they did, to win market share."
OK, send me your contact info if you are President or VP partner at E&D.
Look, here's the thing:
MSFT made gobs of money because we sold shovels during a gold rush. Guess what? The gold rush is over.
Until there's another rush that we can capitalize on, we're not going to boom like the glory days.
Luckily we have tons of cash sitting around, so we can invest in lots of interesting areas and create a few markets. But that's up to managers and "deciders" to make some good, dilligent picks, and move forward thoughtfully there.
Question for person posting comment on total insurance consumption and burden.
Do you know how Microsoft reports insurance consumption and burden? Is this information shared with managers. I thought medical information is private. Are $ claims for medical private? Is this legal?
An earlier displaced worker under 40 requested a poll capture extenuating medical conditions. We should probably capture family medical situations and disability. aybe it should include "disability" and fami
"Ready..... total insurance consumption and burden. There exists some formula that looks at your total burden on the company. Performance and capability are not at all part of this formula. Only if there is a close tie will they look to performance to break the tie.
So lets examine the 4 people from my workgroup that got laid off. One had a wife that went through shoulder surgery in the last year had a lot of rehab costs, one had back surgery in the last year and had similar rehab costs, one has had a couple of biopsies and is pre-cancerous and the last one has had some ongoing issues with anxiety, depression and manic/depressive disorder and on a bunch of ongoing medication. This formula has both current and projected benefits costs burden on the company. The older you get the higher the projected burden will be.
"There exists some formula that looks at your total burden on the company. Performance and capability are not at all part of this formula. Only if there is a close tie will they look to performance to break the tie"
"Lots of people that I know are not worried about losing their position. Why? Because they're awesome."
______________
I would bet a thousand dollars that you're one of the clueless under performers walking around after the lay offs that people are whispering, "Wow, what in the world is this guy still doing here? Unbelievable."
Either that, or you're one of the geniuses that worked on Windows Vista. How's that working out for you now?
Regardless, you're an awfully insensitive a-hole and I hope your comments makes those smart, bright people who just got laid off realize life is so much better outside of Microsoft. It really is.
"I personally love my job at MSFT."
----------------
Ah, the Gold Standard speaks! End of discussion, everybody...:-)
Here's a very interesting essay on the stack ranking MS is famous for and how it can affect teams you need and want to work AS A TEAM.
I truly believe this is one of Microsoft's fatal flaws - but since it's Ballmer's pet process, it won't be done away with while he's there.
http://www.poppendieck.com/pdfs/Compensation.pdf
Do you know how Microsoft reports insurance consumption and burden? Is this information shared with managers. I thought medical information is private. Are $ claims for medical private? Is this legal?
Having worked in Benefits in a prior life, I can tell you what I know and that is that insurance usage by an individual employee is not provided to companies in this way. Usage reports are provided but they do not call out by name how any individual employee uses his/her benefits.
If MSFT used private medical information and age to pick and choose employees to keep and employees to sever, seems to me they would be asking for a class action lawsuit the size of Alaska.
Mini, I am hoping that you have "SPSA status" as one of the topics to cover in your next post. It will be extraordinarily informative to see what happens to the money/partner pig trough given the recent events.If it gets filled again, even part way, everyone will definitively know where the company's priorities are.
Only one person from my team as let go on Thursday with no 60 days job search. He had been sick three months last year and had to take time off for rehabilitation. Seems like utilisation/insurance played a role in determining who should be let go
Mobile: So far, I've seen couple of middle-managers in dev/test get cut, some contractors as well some IC's "quit" in the past week. At least one IC was a real stand-up guy, knew his shit but perhaps rubbed a few folks the wrong way. But he was a tough, hard worker and I'll miss having him around.
Mandatory mobile org meeting monday, huge org changes already semi-announced. Buckle up.
To the "I am sorry" woman at the townhall - you have my utmost respect, that was probably one of the most human moments I've witnessed in my 10 years there.
To everyone laid off, I wish you the best of luck. I'm sorry it had to be this way and I truly believe it shouldn't have come to this.
People need to quit whining, and channel their energies into finding new work.
1) Update your resume
2) Update your networking skills in the real world and in the web world - LinkedIn, Facebook, MySpace, personal website, personal blog, etc.
3) Upload your resume to the prominent job boards: CareerBuilder, Dice, Monster, USAJOBS, INDEED, HOTJOBS, etc.
4) Update your wardrobe
5) Brush up on your interviewing skills by reading these two books: a) Knock 'Em Dead; b) Sweaty Palms
6) Clean yourselves up: Microsoft doesn't give drug tests, but MOST other employers do
7) Open your Bibles and read Joshua 1:8
8) Pray. God answers prayers... more than you realize.
Within two weeks of leaving Microsoft, I had three job offers, for a lot more money and fewer hours.
And I'll be praying for all of you.
Finally, please remember these parting thoughts: The longer you are out of work, the longer you will be out of work. The clock is ticking... time and the economy are NOT on your side. Every second you spend complaining, wallowing in self-pity, or reminiscing about the good old days of Microsoft is time lost toward your vital goal of getting that new job. So focus and apply yourselves. Your new job at the moment is to find that next great job. I'd also recommend keeping your skills consistently current and relevant so this effort will be easier in the future.
It was the best of times, it was the worst of times.... So goes the tale of Microsoft.
Make no mistake - the CVP and partner crowd are cutting costs to make CM and therefore their bonuses. Career rule #1 - NEVER EVER stand between your boss and his/her bonus. Especially now or you'll be the first to be chopped.
I understand the need to drive to a financial performance palpable to Wall Street but who are we kidding here!?! MSFT has not in any recent memory EVER delivered financial performance palpable to Wall Street. This is particularly true under SteveB.
Recommendations:
1. Partner program eliminated immediatly. Full stop. This performance program was designed to propell the company into the next big growth curve, attract and retain the best talent and add career inspiration to others. Well, it failed miserably even before the economic choas and will be worse if it isn't eliminated.
2. SteveB you need to go. Seriously just go. The BOD needs to grow some balls and fire you for performance.
3. Kevin Turner you have until the end of FY09 to fix the field or you're gone too. You have driven empowerment without accountability and it backfired. The people you yell at can't fix the problems because you gave other people the resources and thought we'd all just work together. You mandate without context and think we're the same as a cog on the floor of Wal-Mart. You're disrespectful and rude. Worse after all these years you STILL don't understand the business. I, and many others like me, have to clean up your mess every time you talk to the field. Fix it or go.
3. Cut bait on some businesses. No one wants to admit failure, especially SteveB, but we've failed in many places. Cut bait on OSG, X-Box, Dynamics. There are probably more, but these are the biggies. YEs, people will get laid off and yes that will be awful but at least they won't die by a thousand cuts.
Lastly, no one is safe, but at the same time you can't sweat what you can't control. We haven't really seen anything like this before so expect it to be unpredictable and crazy for a while.
For people who want to hear the execs say they're sorry I can totally understand. I've had to lay off hundreds of people in my career and I can tell you that many many sleepless nights and a few throwing up incicents occurred before I had to break the news to people who often were doing a good job. I don't know if our execs had a similar experience, but I would imagine many have. That said, while they may indeed be beyond sorry, they can't say it. They can't because it could be legally implied to mean a legally arbitrary method was used so you will never hear them say they're sorry. They legally aren't allowed to be sorry.
If MSFT used private medical information and age to pick and choose employees to keep and employees to sever, seems to me they would be asking for a class action lawsuit the size of Alaska.
The severance paperwork that they make employees sign to get their money (I believe) says that they won't sue the company.
Sounds to me like they're buying people off...
Only one person from my team as let go on Thursday with no 60 days job search. He had been sick three months last year and had to take time off for rehabilitation. Seems like utilisation/insurance played a role in determining who should be let go
Being off the job for that amount of time as well as the lost time for rehabilitation probably had a much bigger impact than benefits usage. Through no fault of his own, there is no way he could have performed his job under those circumstances. In this environment, situations like this are going to make people into targets. It sucks.
What is the strategy?
There are plenty of questions on whether SteveB understands how to make the company successful, as BillG did in the past. But, with a company this big, can one person do it? Where are the other leaders? What are they doing to drive the Microsoft Stock?
Ray Ozzie
He was supposed to be our great hope. But where has he been? Anybody see him show up an anything that shows his value to the company? Do we really need another lame groove re-write? Hopefully, Azure will take off as the new dev platform for the sky.
SQL
Continues to make money, but what’s new to drive new revenue?
Office
A franchise that continues to drive revenue, but what have you done for us lately? Why do I need to upgrade?
Windows Client
Hopefully Win7 will simply fix the disaster of Vista. Their mission is clear. Be the best client OS, and with the focus on NetBooks, Win7 is certainly heading in the right direction. But Windows is useless unless there are apps to run on it. There seem to be less apps capable of running on Windows due to all the Vista compat issues, and how do we build apps on Windows anyway? Or are we all supposed to run WebApps with the worst of the browsers, IE. And 8 seems worse than 7.
DevDiv
This is the one with the biggest mystery. DevDiv used to be there to enable Windows. Windows makes money selling Windows. DevDiv makes money by enabling ISVs and SMB developers to build apps that run on Windows, driving Windows sales. In the last few years, DevDiv has all but abandoned Windows. The fights between Windows and DevDiv (Native & managed) are ridiculous. Meantime, most of the brainpower, and drive by the leadership is to drive Silverlight as a cross platform technology, with no value to Windows. Don’t get me wrong, it’s critical to have a web client for our new services, once they surface some success, but I’m amazed at the leadership, or lack of fiscal responsibility of the DevDiv leadership to recognize they exist to drive Windows sales. Do they really think they can sell more copies of Visual Studio to compensate for the lack of revenue they drive for Windows?
The company is in a transistion, but where exactly is it going? Do we have the staying power to stick with an idea long enough to see if it will stick? Will companies bet on Microsoft when it’s not clear the things they bet on change, disappear, or are simply renamed to confusion?
Microsoft has the biggest opportunity, but only if the leaders step up, and the IC’s work to create and truly innovate, not copy other innovations and simply put the Microsoft name on it.
Lots of sympathy with you and to you from an ex-MS (MS 8+ years, left a few years ago). Read all of your postings and see a lot that I can recognize. Of the more recent, thanks to Jan 24 9:35:00 and 10:11:00 -- thoughtful comments, I thought, from some people with a lot of experience and much accomplishment. I came to MS (travelling many thousands of miles to get there) full of hope and willingness to do the best work of my life. I left frustrated (roughly the same distance of miles) after a dozen of patents and accomplishments that brought me the job I have today and which represented the equivalent of a 3-level promotion in one go (I manage about 100 people today). I think (and thought so back when I left) that MS has developed, in SteveB's reign, a disastrous combination of absence of innovative technical vision and lack of necessary cultural adaptation to changed circumstances. I would emphasize the cultural bit, because it is the only thing that can really save the day when things get rough. The internal culture of success remained that of the jungle (X eats Y) without the benefits (lets name it: money) that made it in some sense rational before the stock tanked. Instead, a mix of SteveB-type-used-car-salesman internal reward tactics and big-corporation non-culture took over, leaving promotions (climbing the mgmt ladder) as the only vehicle for compensation increase. As many of us know, the individuals who do especially well at that are not necessarily the brightest nor the wisest (some are, by the laws of probability, of course, but in such an environment that is really incidental, or if you will, predominantly a matter of luck). I think the company has grown completely and irresponsibly out of proportion, without a sustainable vision to support the growth. At the same time, I think the layoff (so far as I can understand what is going on) is being conducted with an absolutely astonishing absence of strategy and sensitivity. And if 9:35:00 AM is right, I would add, with a completely mind boggling lack of ethics. All this hurts me for one reason only: I always thought and still think that MS commands one of the most impressive intellectual work forces I can imagine, and when I think back at my time there I always think about the amazing talented people I had the great priviledge to interact with. So much the more sadness when I see this. I think SteveB is finished. You have my sympathy and respect.
All severed employees will get hush money = 1-2 wks per 6 mos service. Low performers will not get the additional 60 day job search pay.
That definitely doesn't ring true. Because of the WARN Act, I believe MS is required to provide at least 60 days' pay unless someone's being actually terminated for cause.
I got laid off on 22nd. I still don't understand we have 67000+ vendors and FTE's are laid off. Can't Microsoft learn something from Google? Or they have decided to go in the stupid way as always... This layoff was not needed at all. We have so much money in bank and its not on loss. Just 2% less growth than last year? Is this a reason. They never thought anything about the employees. Just to answer shareholders, ooo yes we also have taken measures... see... and invest.... Fucking Bullshit. The funniest part is when we were given layoff package, it says "Microsoft Cares" - hypocrites....
>"Does anyone know if there were any attempts to spin off or sell projects like FlightSim and PopFly?"
I get the sense they are just going to keep selling the games, probably outsource updates and new versions. But that is just a guess.
There is a group looking into other options.
Anonymous @ 9:35am, tell us more.
I noticed something similar on my team. Most successful (higher level, high stock; such as myself) and most costly from insurance point of view (treated last year for leukemia, but now supposedly recovered, for example).
How would one go about getting an external investigation into the allegations that management used factors such as insurance utilization to make their decisions?
The one person I know personally did use a lot of health insurance in the last year, but was also a strong performer for whom his manager was lobbying for promotion.
On the one hand, you'd think Microsoft would be smart enough to not use this as a criteria. On the other hand, they've been leading the league in dumb moves for almost a decade now.
Open source and cloud are going to put last nail in the coffin. Bad for local economy, but very good for industry. Microsoft is famous for not seeing it coming. Lets review:
Apple threat - underestimated
Google... ha! Who uses Google anyway?!
When I was MSFT employee I remember SteveB meeting when he asked this question and only 3 people in the room had guts to confirm that they use google although I was sure everyone in the room used it. Great Microsoft "culcha". Anyway...
Open source - underestimated. Allowed Linux to grow into full scale competitor. I actually work in the office right now with not a single piece of Microsoft software. All Linux.
I can go on and on. I spent 8 years in Microsoft and I saw company killed by SteveB and his management team. I can tell you this.
1) This is not last lay-off. When you start it is hard to stop.
2) Stock is not at the bottom yet - expect deeper slide. Earnings are going to drop.
3) Expect "culcha" and moral going down. Don't believe me - just read this thread - especially about Indians. Here you are MS 21 century
4) Competition wants blood and big chunks of company are going to fall. Like stupid MSN - what is it for anyway?
5) Five more years of SteveB and you won't believe what you going to see.
So basically you folks are looking at awesome time ahead of you. Why stay? Just ask them to lay you off today. Be part of 3600.
"There is a lot of irony that MSFT finds itself at the exact place that IBM was regarding layoffs in the late 80s/early 90s"
Yeah...what ever happened to IBM?
MSFT is far from perfect, but it's the best environment I've been in. For those who can find greener pastures -- awesome! Don't go away mad, just go away.
----
Yes - you can see how great environment really is. Just read this forum. If you go away - please go away mad and spread the word. For example I won't advise any college kids going to SteveB's Microsoft. Worst environment for young talent ever. My former co-worker actually returned to Microsoft and left in half a year. Couldn't take it anymore. Thus - I'd prefer to tell how things really are there. Reality is - stay away for Microsoft.
>"If MSFT used private medical information and age to pick and choose employees to keep and employees to sever, seems to me they would be asking for a class action lawsuit the size of Alaska."
Unlikely.
Age discrimination lawsuits are nearly impossible to bring. Pretty much nothing you can do when a company does not hire you or it fires you obviously for age. Ask any attorney. Same with the medical issue. How do you prove it? Because 60% had medical leave/costs? The company will just indicate productivity, attitude, performance, yada yada yada. Unless you have a memo from employee A to employee B stating specific reasons for firing or unless you have two or three people in the same room witnessing a manger or HR person ordering a termination for health or age, good luck.
To all you IT over 40's--it gets worse from here, unless the Obama administration has legislation passed with more protection.
"Mini" has became a well-sellable trademark. And when this happens, the product does not stand to the standarts (in this case set up by itself).
People are bitching about layoffs here, engaging in demagogia, but does anyone remembers first post on "mini"?
Quote: "Microsoft needs to reduce employee size. It’s too big. It doesn’t need a quicky Atkins-equivalent. No, it needs to get itself on a corporate exercise program that will shed itself of unwanted groups and employees. And stay on that."
Re: Insurance
>> Usage reports are provided but they do not call out by name how any individual employee uses his/her benefits.
A company will know about many serious illnesses because they result in medical leave. It's rather obvious when someone's gone for 3 months, I think.
I wrote the following comments in an email to SteveB and BillG on August 3, 2000, the day before I retired:
In my opinion, Microsoft is faced by problems it must address if it is going to continue to succeed.
Arrogance leading to bad public relations:
Thomas Penfield Jackson has ruled we are a monopoly that has harmed consumers with our anti-competitive practices. I think this conclusion is laughable. I think the opposite is true: no company in the history of computing has done more to benefit consumers. So what are we guilty of? We're guilty of acting like assholes. We're guilty of throwing our weight around, of blustering, of making veiled threats, of pushing ethics to the very edge, and of boasting about our victories. Is Intel any less of a monopoly? Is Cisco? Cisco's entire television advertising campaign is based on trumpeting their monopoly in routing Internet traffic. Recently, their market capitalization has equaled or surpassed ours. So why isn't the Justice Department all over them? In part because they haven't made as many enemies. Publicly, they've played the game more politely-—no less aggressively. If we had taken the little bit of extra effort necessary to be more gentlemanly in our dealings with partners, competitors, government, and the media, then we'd have a much better reputation, one the Justice Department might have thought twice about assailing.
Quality of job candidates isn't what it used to be:
In the past year, I have interviewed around ten candidates. I recommended one for hire without reservations; one other candidate seemed promising, but not for the position in question. This, too, represents a trend over the past ten years. Some of this is beyond our direct control. In talking with college candidates, I get the impression that our universities are turning into trade schools when it comes to computer science. There is greater emphasis on "marketable job skills" like HTML and Web page design, but far less on the fundamentals of how a computer operates, of how data structures and algorithms behave, and of the art of programming. On the other hand, Microsoft has become less attractive to the candidates as well. We have done a poor job managing our image among the techies, so we're less appealing. While our size means an incomparable breadth of opportunity, it also means that candidates fear getting lost in the shuffle and being unable to make a difference.
Human Resources are the internal spin doctors:
HR exists to tell us how everything the company does is in the best interests of the employees. We're so big now, it's impractical to have company-wide functions apart from the picnic, but as all the others (Microsoft Night at the Museum of Science, Microsoft Night at the Museum of Flight, Microsoft Night at the Mariners, Microsoft Day at Woodland Park Zoo, the Company Christmas Party) were eliminated, HR was always there to tell us what a good thing it was and how we were better off! How about the truth? The logistics got to be too tough, and the cost got to be higher than the company wanted to pay. Sure, the Prime program is excellent, but going to venues as individuals doesn't replace the group camaraderie, and I'm sure the Prime program is much cheaper.
The Micronews has become a boring company mouthpiece. What made the original Microsnooze fun? It was spontaneous. It was a collaborative work of more than the Micronews staff. Why was the original Micronews something to look forward to? It had heart and personality. ... Friday's headline story wouldn't often be something we'd read about on Wednesday at msnbc.com.
HR used to be people who cared about making life easier for the rest of the company. Now it seems they exist to give us the official, sanitized company spin on every issue. There are some good things they do. The training courses and technical talks are a big plus, but, by and large, HR seems like a big bureaucracy whose main job is to help us know what to think.
Lack of credibility in the review process:
The stack rank method of rating employees worked very well when project teams were smaller and everyone knew each other, so that one manager was familiar with the skills of another's employees. Nowadays, the stack ranking exercise is really a test of which managers have the most forceful personalities. The artificial conformance to a bell curve in the distribution of increases is very demotivating in large groups of excellent people: a third of the team are arbitrarily labeled the underachievers. This happened during Windows 95 and was a big reason many talented developers left the group after we shipped. I know many people who say it has been much easier for them to get ahead after moving to smaller teams where their skills stand out more.
The review forms themselves are widely regarded as a joke. No one places any credibility in them. You list your accomplishments, your manager tells you what a great job you're doing, and you get a 3.5, same as always. Goals change so quickly that the ones set in the review form are more often than not irrelevant by the end of the review period.
Too much focus on OEMs, too little focus on end users:
In the Windows 9X group, the OEM has become the customer. OEM sales so dominate retail sales that most decisions are made on the basis of satisfying our OEMs. On the face of it, this would appear to be a good thing, but, ultimately, our OEMs are not the people who use our software; our ultimate customers are the people who buy machines from our OEMs, and they have different requirements. OEMs want a new product every year to drive their holiday sales. Users don't want a new operating system every year; they want an operating system that is stable and fast, never needs to be rebooted, never crashes, and won't have to be changed for several years. They want stability and consistency. It's an operating system: it's meant to run the applications the user wants to use; it shouldn't have to be upgraded every year. There was a time in this company's history when the OS was viewed as the platform that would allow us to sell our applications; the money was in applications, and the OS was a means to drive their sales. Now, the OS has become an end in itself. We add more and more bells and whistles in an attempt to give the OS sex appeal so it will sell. Remember, it's an operating system! It's infrastructure. It's the plumbing and the roads and the gas and electrical lines of the computer. It's not supposed to be sexy by itself. It's supposed to allow us to write sexy, killer applications. How did we lose sight of that?
Management is out of touch with developers:
This trend began about ten years ago and has steadily worsened. [Italics new.] A recent example is the debate I engaged in with my management over the purpose and use of stress testing in the Windows Me project. ... [One set was achieving a 70% pass rate.] Based on my experience working on various operating systems for the last fifteen years, ... I stated that a failure rate of 30% could never be acceptable for a properly-used stress test. I was told I was misinformed; I was told that, since I was so "rabid" about our stress testing, I should propose improvements. When I did submit a proposal, my ideas were pooh-poohed. Despite claims by management that our stress criteria were widely available, it took four days before anyone could supply me with the target pass rate for the Base Mix for our final beta. In fact, the target was 95% of machines passing (none too impressive, in my opinion), but we actually achieved 93.4% passing. Thus, I was told, we came within 2% of meeting our goal. When I pointed out that we actually had 32% more failures than our goal called for (6.6% instead of 5%), management told me "tongue in cheek" that they wished I'd shut up and stop causing trouble.
I wish I could say this was the first time I had ever run up against such willful disregard of a reasonable technical opinion, but it wasn't by a long shot. The general feeling among the grunts in development is that we're the first to know when something is wrong, but we're the last ones management asks or listens to. One of the great things about Microsoft when I started was the feeling that everyone's opinion was valued and taken seriously.
Too much reliance on temporary employees, subcontractors, and outsourcing:
Outsourcing saves money in the short run, but it costs money in the long run in ways that are harder to see and measure. In Windows 9X, we have relied heavily on testers from Volt and other vendors. I have observed that most of these people would not have survived the review process to get full-time jobs, many bring a different attitude to work, and the good ones often get away. The bar is definitely lower for contractors. This hurts the quality of the product, as they lack the skills to do a good job of finding and especially investigating bugs. Contractors are not committed to Microsoft. They're not treated as well as employees, so they don't feel like employees, and they are very aware that they have no vested interest in seeing the stock rise. This hurts the quality of the product, because they don't do their jobs with the same care most full-time employees exhibit. Finally, there are always some very good contractors who would make very good full-time employees, but we don't do a good job of hiring them, so their contracts expire, and they take their expertise somewhere else. This hurts the quality of the product, because we don't retain expertise and end up training a new crop of testers with each revision of the product. If a person is good enough to work here at all, that person is worth making a Microsoft employee. We get a more motivated worker. The easy-to-measure cost of paying benefits and stock options is more than offset by the hard-to-measure cost of losing expertise when a good person goes elsewhere.
Outsourcing building maintenance and similar functions may be cheaper in the short run, but is it better in the long run? I notice the following things in Building 27: a coffee maker was broken for weeks; Plexiglas slots for notices in the elevators fell down months ago and have never been fixed; a toilet in the men's room was out of order for a whole week; a sink was broken for months; trash in the wastebaskets on Friday afternoon is still there Monday morning. Microsoft decides to outsource some function and, presumably, puts a contract out for bids. The contract probably goes to the low bidder. To maximize profit, the contractor will try to get by with the least amount of work possible. These folks don't care about Microsoft. They take no pride in Microsoft's success and its appearance. Sure, it costs more to let a janitor participate in the stock purchase plan, but then you've got a janitor who cares about Microsoft, how it does, and how it looks.
Lack of commitment to quality:
Meeting the schedule is very important, but today we are committed to the schedule above all else. Ship dates are considered the most important thing, more important than quality. This was true to some extent in Windows 95. We postponed many, many bugs that we should have fixed to improve stability, quality, fit and finish. Unfortunately, things have only worsened since then. Windows 98 was dramatically understaffed in terms of developer and tester expertise. Bugs postponed from Windows 95 were only given a cursory glance, and most were never fixed. New functionality was added by people who lacked the experience necessary to appreciate the effects of their changes. The beta was smaller and shorter than it should have been. The level of stress test failures considered acceptable was much higher than it should have been. Attention to detail was sorely lacking. All these corners were cut to meet a schedule.
Everything that was wrong with the Windows 98 project was worse in the Windows Me project. We had fewer experienced developers. We had fewer experienced testers. The product has no features that will make PC's significantly easier to use. The system performed horribly in the nightly stress tests, yet nothing deterred us from meeting our ship date. This is the first product I have worked on in my entire Microsoft career that I would not whole-heartedly recommend to my friends.
If the Windows 2000 group allows itself to become so completely schedule-driven the way the 9X group has, then I fear for the future of this company.
Marketing has replaced Vision:
Originally, we developed products because someone had a vision of how the product could change the way people use computers. Now, we develop products based on the dollars Marketing says the product can make. In the short run, this is great for stockholder equity, but lousy for innovation. It's is a hard tradeoff to make, but I argue we have reached a point where we lean too far in favor of the safe dollar stream. We spend too much time and energy milking additional releases out of dead-end products, and not enough on creating the next big thing.
We are becoming the IBM we used to ridicule:
This is the sum total of all that's wrong: we are enough like that company we used to make fun of that it's frightening. When I first came here, one thing that set Microsoft apart was that there was no dead wood. Now, how many people are employed just to design posters and table cards and glossy mailbox stuffers to be plastered all over campus to tout some internal program we could all learn about via email or the corporate web? Now we have pretty, custom-painted shuttle buses that ask us where we want to go today. Now we have an online company store outsourced to a company in Boise that ships products from a warehouse in Oregon. I haven't even discussed issues like mindless internal rivalries and vice-presidents striving to create and protect internal fiefdoms, or a research division where, according to employees I know there, a caste system of PhD's and non-PhD's exists, and some groups drift forever without measurable goals of any kind. We look too much like those woolly-brained knuckleheads in Boca Raton with their incredible inertia, mindless policies, inept management, and lack of vision that we used to make fun of back in the '80's. Will their fate in the early '90's be our fate sometime this decade?
Final Thoughts:
I owe so much to Microsoft. Almost literally, I was just a kid when I walked through the door of the Northup Building for the first time. Now I watch my own kids rapidly approach the age I was then. I have grown up and learned so much in my years at Microsoft. I could not have asked for a better, more exciting place to work. I could not have asked for better co-workers. Though my time here is coming to an end, I will always feel a strong connection to Microsoft, and I want to see it continue to be absolutely the best software company in the world. In the early days, we were all driven by the idea that second best wasn't good enough in anything: not in products, not in people, not in work environment, not in fun, not in excitement, not in vision. We set out to do nothing less than change the world, and we did. Now, it seems, we watch the world change more than we change it. I hope Microsoft is just catching its breath for its next big challenge.
Microsoft has had an incredible run over the past twenty-five years. Maybe it is asking too much for a company to enjoy such wild success for three decades or more, but if any company can do it, Microsoft can. It will take savvy and skill and execution. More than that, it will take an audacious dream. A computer on every desk and in every home. To articulate such a vision before 1980, and to achieve it by 2000, is nothing short of astonishing. What is the next audacious dream that will carry Microsoft for the next quarter century?
TO the troll who started the "total cost burden" thread: Bullshit. Terminating someone based on their healthcare costs is discrimination.
TO the trolls who keep saying working at MSFT sucks: Why the hell didn't you quit? Judging by the number of whiners up on this blog, we could have had enough of you leave that this layoff would not be needed.
TO the spelling nazis: Shut up. If the message is understood, that's really what matter. Mini-msft anon blog entries are not a shipping product. Do you have to be a perfect speller/grammamatician to be worth listening to?
I work at MS. In the Windows Mobile Group. I'm a dev, and I have an excellent line of communication with my manager and his manager. I know my stack rank and I know how I am doing on nearly a weekly basis. My reviews have not been a surprise. I have preached this advice for years and years: If you don't get along with your manager... MOVE! It doesn't matter how good a job you are doing, if you and your boss can't communicate, you are doomed. Same as any company out there.
Yeah there is a lot of committee bullshit and a lot of layers building stuff here, but a lot of the IC's really do want to make a great product. We all cheered a collective "yay!" when Pieter Knook, Todd Warren and Ira Snyder were replaced in our org. People here in Windows Mobile want to make a great phone. And now with our new leadership, it's starting to get a bit easier. I don't know personally anyone here who wants to leave.
Layoffs suck. They are never perfect, never precise, usually not useful. But we can't change the past, we can only change our leadership. Keep that in mind next time you get your proxy votes.
Liddell, you look clueless for making this a surprise to shareholders. Your aussie accent sounds cute, but when you listen beyond that, it's all BS, and you know it.
_____________
Liddell accent is not Aussie, it's Kiwi (New Zealander). But whatever his accent is , I still think his speech announcing a good quarter result contradicted on just what happened on Thursday. Its really just BS.
Does anyone know about plans to cut any jobs in Microsoft Operations?
Addressing Poster comment... Saturday, January 24, 2009 12:48:00 PM
" To all you IT over 40's--it gets worse from here, unless the Obama administration has legislation passed with more protection.
I disagree. For displaced workers who think they may be impacted, get an attorney to review your severance agreement before you sign.
-Load of resources for disability, health including FMLA, ADA, HIPPA, EEOC
- Age: Good news: Recent 2008 Supreme Court ruling makes it easier to prove age discrimination http://www.hrworld.com/features/changes-age-discrimination-lawsuits-082608/
"Discrimination Lawsuit Employees who sue a company alleging that layoffs disproportionately affected older workers may find it easier to win their cases following a recent Supreme Court ruling.
Ruling places the burden of proof on the EMPLOYER to show that their criteria for dismissal do not violate the ADEA when the results of the evaluation and dismissal process disproportionately affect older employees.
Additional Resources
Age Bias and Performance in layoff decisions http://www.undercoverlawyer.com/archives/34
IEEE " HIGH TECH WORKERS AND AGE DISCRIMINATION http://www.ieeeusa.org/careers/employment/age.html
National Employment Lawyers Association (NELA)
Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC)
>> Now they are just like everyone else. No wonder the stock was down on the news.
For the longest time, I couldn't think of anywhere I'd rather work than Microsoft. That feeling has gone.
I love software, everything about it. But now, I'd love it just the same anywhere, and I can take that with me... anywhere.
The actions of Thursday senselessly squandered Microsoft's tradition of employee loyalty, pride and goodwill, so unusual in large corporations.
Folks, when you change group, make sure you go through their financials first. Satisfy yourself that they are on the critical path. And take your coat and valuables from your office to any meeting involving your management chain, in case you never see your office again.
I'm stunned at how entitled my colleagues are.
Go use your favorite search engine to find out the median wage in the U.S., then come back and complain about getting full pay and benefits to job hunt for 2 months, plus a severance package that could be as much as 6 months's worth of pay on top of that.
Do you know how many people get laid off or fired and have nothing? No benefits, no savings, no stock, no severance? People who are fired at 5pm and deep in debt at 5:01pm?
If you knew how to manage your money, and have an appropriate standard of living, you could make that money last for a couple of years. And if you have real marketable skills, 6 months is more than enough time to get a job with roughly the same pay and benefits.
Ingrates!
Two people had courage to ask tough questions from coterie of Steve, one was "I am Sorry" female and other was "Bad Hiring" immigrant guy. Probably English was not first language of female (European accent). Situation is laughable at Microsoft, only immigrants and a female had the balls to ask tough questions while all others are just managing up.
MSFT employee with many years here - Ballmer should and must resign. At least at the town hall yesterday with lisa and chris you could see and hear some empathy. To steveb, it's always been a giant pissing match on whatever subject, and acting like an absolute goof at the townhall sure as hell doesn't help.
Start hanging "impeach steveb" or "fire ballmer" signs off 520, 405 and I 5 overpasses. Let the media know how much we're all done with him.
He's underperforming, 10% and whatever else you want to call it. The job in jeapordy message is long overdue. 'nuff said.
Can anyone that attended the town hall in person tell us what they edited out of the recorded video at the end? There's a question that Ballmer answers, a jarring cut and now Lisa is holding the mic, and then they end.
http://www.undercoverlawyer.com/archives/34
As an employment lawyer, I always advise companies that the only safe way to conduct a layoff is to follow this simple rule: “Last hired, first fired.”
Defense attorneys love this way of selecting employees for layoff, because it is objective. There no way for discriminatory motives and biases to creep into a system that is based solely on dates of hire.
But do companies use “Last hired, first fired”? Usually not….
Why does this happen? The companies will say it’s based on “job performance.” Yet, how is a newer, less experienced employee with far less training able to outperform a long term employee? Job skill is rarely the real reason that long term employees are left unemployed while new employees keep their jobs.
Often times the real answer is that the decision maker just “likes” the newer employee better. People tend to hire people who remind them of themselves. The corollary is that people do no hire, or retain, employees who do not remind them of themselves. If the reason that an employee does not remind the hiring manager of themselves has to do with a protected class – such as the employee is of a different age, different race, is disabled, is a different gender – then this very human tendency to hire people like ourselves is not just a human tendency; its illegal discrimination.
How Can You Show the Reason Was Illegal Age Discrimination?
One of the main ways displaced worker show that they were not hired, or not retained, because of their age is through suspicious timing of employee discipline. Boeing is one company who learned this lesson the hard way in a real case that serves as an excellent example.
Real Lawsuit: Eileen McKee worked at Boeing for 30 years. But she didn’t retire. Even with all that seniority she was laid off. Here’s what happened.
Boeing announced that it would be laying off employees from many different departments. Eileen worked in a human resources related department with one other (younger) employee and one manager. Eileen wasn’t nervous about the layoffs because she had more seniority and also had a history of positive appraisals from her manager.
At the same time Boeing announced the layoffs, however, the company also announced that it would use a new employee rating system “to compare employees in comparable positions.” The new system labeled Eileen and her co-worker as “comparable” even though their job duties did not overlap. Her co-worker was also female, but was 36 years old. Using the new rating system, Elieen’s manger gave Eileen a score of 17. Eileen’s manager gave the younger co-worker a score of 39. As a result, Boeing laid off Eileen and retained the younger, less experienced co-worker.
Eileen immediately filed a state law age discrimination claim, but lost. She did not give up.
Next she filed a age discrimination lawsuit in federal court under the Age Discrimination in Employment Act (ADEA). Boeing tried hard to keep Eileen from getting her case in front of a jury. The company filed a motion for summary judgment, in which the it asks the court to throw out Eileen’s case, arguing that she did not have any evidence that she was selected for layoff due to her age.
But the court did not throw out Eileen’s case. In fact, the court just allowed Eileen’s case to go to a jury trial. Eileen defeated Boeing’s summary judgment motion by arguing that her evidence of age bias was the rapid change in her performance rating, from all positive for years to a low score of 17 on the new employee rating system. Less than a year before she got a poor rating, Eileen’s same manager gave her a “glowing” performance appraisal. Suspiciously, the area in the glowing appraisal where Eileen scored the highest was at first included in the new ratings system, but was later removed. Although this one change would not have given Eileen a higher score than her younger co-worker, it was strange enough that the judge ruled that a jury could conclude the change was done in order to give the older worker, Eileen, a lower score. (Cotter v. Boeing Co., E.D. Pa. No. 05-5053, 6/26/07).
the person laid off in my org had above average medical issues in the past 18 months, definitely older than 45 too
After seeing multiple references to "layed off", the Grammar Nazi in me could not be contained any longer: the past tense of layoff is laid off.
Actually, "layoff" is a noun and doesn't have a past tense. The verb form is "to lay off," and yes, the past for that is "laid off."
If you are laid off what happens to the health benefits? Do you have to pay out of pocket. If I were to get the same medical insurance (that Microsoft provides) on my own that, how much would it cost me.
Any CEO that is on record saying "I don't care about the stock price" or "I don't know what makes the stock go up or down", should be perpwalked out the door in a Gitmo jumpsuit.
Ballmer is still living off the halcyon days of Win95/Office95. He keeps hoping we will have another one of those. Steve...those days are loooong gone. No one cares about an OS anymore. How much innovative can a word processor or spreadsheet get? No one cares.
Given where the internet is today, no one wants to buy shrink wrapped software. And we were too late to that game, for some reason. The enterprise is where we make our money. Get more focused on that rather than chasing companies that have already lapped us.
IBM made profits in software. Quick!. Name me one consumer focused software product IBM makes? Right! They don't! What is IBM's search engine? They don't offer one. They sell to the enterprise. We compete with them (or can) quite well there.
Well, four years of that game was enough and I finally left in disgust. Now I work for a competitor in Silicon Valley who makes great products that Ballmer loves to mock. (*cough* iPhone *cough*) But that's OK, Steve. At least now I have engaged management that gives me the tools and support I need to help make those products the best they can be. In other words, management that pushes me be a great engineer on a great team rather than a self-serving, backstabbing crony.
OMG. Someone with too much Apple corporate kool-aid is here.
Are you kidding me? Working for Apple - a company that pays a ridiculously small compensation and is well known for the stressful environment? (I have friends there, BTW). No thanks, I wouldn't want to become Steve Job's slave (or Tim Cook's). But maybe that's just me.
To make a parallel - Probably for the same reason not everyone would be a good fit in the US Army.
P.S. BTW, for the record, I admire Apple products, and I also admire how Apple managed to stay humble all these years and continue working on their vision. But I will never work for them...
" Thus - I'd prefer to tell how things really are there. Reality is - stay away for Microsoft."
Reality in your shitty division maybe, if you even really work here. Which I doubt because it is obvious half the posters here are posers. Jesus, the level of whining and sniveling I hear here is just EPIC.
The economy sucks people. Shit like this is gonna happen. All the gloaters at APPL and GOOG: your time is coming. Laugh while you can. People will soon be unable to prop up the "upgrade very year" APPL business model for that latest white cube. Advertising budgets will be the first to get the axe, GOOG folks, and we all know that is the only product you have that makes money. All your other free properties will need to either make money or be cut. If you think otherwise you are a fool.
I've never gotten below exceeded, & 1 gold star. I'm outta here first chance I find. You don't fire people when you're still making billions.
Google vs Microsoft and Minimsft vs InsideMs
The above stories are just similar. Mini started this blog which became an instant success. Stunned by its success and again caught napping, Lisa decided to start the now dud InsideMs. Unfortunately InsideMs failed to take off. DEspite scores of feedback from employees Lisa just paid no heed to it and made it worse by asking VPs to blow their trumpet. Meanwhile Mini kept on with the same theme making the blog so successfull that it was quoted almost all the worldwide newspapers as a creditable source of layoff news. Meanwhil Lisa let InsideMs die, failing to provide any post when the rank and file of Microsoft wanted her to just say something.
Same is the story betwnn Google and Live search, Zune vs Ipod.
Microsoft starts second, never listens to user feedback and ultimately kills the product
For Microsft this is the beginning of the end.
I just hope they fire whoever was responsible for that Songsmith commercial.
They should fire whoever thought of Songsmith. It's a cheap copy of Apple's GarageBand without a whole lot of value. Apple customers can even learn to play a guitar or piano with the new version. And oh yeah, it's a new revenue stream for Apple.
Our team was asked this year to confirm our personal leave/vacation for an end-of-the-year report my manager was preparing. After all the crazy weather, my manager wanted to make sure we had all updated our hours before s/he submitted the data.
Do managers usually prepare such a report at the end of the fiscal year? I don't want to sound paranoid, but this is the first time I've heard about leave reporting at the team level. It could be just a routine report that managers usually don't mention to their teams, but I'm wondering if this there's an increased focus on benefit utilization analysis.
>"I disagree. For displaced workers who think they may be impacted, get an attorney to review your severance agreement before you sign."
Hey, thanks for the heads up. You may be right to some extent, but once you are fired over 45 (and everybody knows that `fired for cause' is always made up or fabricated), it gets harder and harder to find new employment and the longer you are out the harder it is to find work and on top of that, most professional skills (ID, Design, Engineering) are highly time sensitive, so most companies just hire younger people regardless for cost and most current training. Trust me, it is not as simple as you indicate. Once you are out for any length of time after your unemployment runs out, you can't afford an attorney anyway.
Do a statistical analysis of boomers out of the box and you will find that millions are already off the unemployment statistic stacks for reasons indicated above.
Does anyone know what the trickle-down impact on vendors will be? Do you work with vendors? Do you see your work with vendors increasing (since there are fewer MS FTEs) or decreasing in the future? Can you give me any specific citations?
Interesting letter from Senator to Mr. Baldloser head..
http://grassley.senate.gov/news/Article.cfm?customel_dataPageID_1502=18922
To Jan 24, 11:20:00 AM
"Having worked in Benefits in a prior life, I can tell you what I know and that is that insurance usage by an individual employee is not provided to companies in this way. Usage reports are provided but they do not call out by name how any individual employee uses his/her benefits."
Microsoft is self insured and only uses Blue Cross for claims processing. If you review the fine print you have agreed to allow information to be passed from Blue Cross to Microsoft for claims payment. While most reports are generated using statistical group information the information is available to Microsoft to use. Looking at the newest benefits website they are more explicit. You have to agree to allow the site to pass along specific medical information to Microsoft so that they can forward relative information to you about various services like CARE, weight loss, smoking, etc. They have all your info. How they use it becomes the question. The ability to prove would put the burden of proof on you.
Yes, the severence package is to buy you off. The 60 days is required by WARN federal law. The employee handbook says they will pay you your unused vacation. Providing access to COBRA is federal law. Everything else: insurance continuance by paying your cobra fees, counciling, job placement assistance, and the 1-2 weeks per 6 months is all to buy your silence and precludes you from making any claim for known or unknown claims. And you have until March 8 to sign the agreement and not revoke it within the 7 days period.
There is a per FTE cost created which includes even more than previously mentioned: cube or office (versus home based), network access and IT support, cost of desk phone and telecommunication just to name a few more. They have an accurate and total cost for each head based on the individualized costs for each head. They could easily use actual medical costs in the FTE burdending formula without knowing specific medical conditions. They just know how much you cost them. I doubt that the dollars spent would constitute private medical history. All they would need is a report from Blue Cross with employee ID in column 1 and money spent in column 2.
SteveB and otehrs have made it clear over and over that it is all about the shareholders. When the company moved from a non-dividend paying growth R&D company to a dividend paying value company the paradigm shifted. Remember the "Cost Efficacy" programs and "Drink It All In". The company has not been an innovation R&D company since Ballmer took over. Since Ballmer it is all about cost efficacy, contribution margin, operating precision, utilization, contract consumption, renewal rates, customer sat, CPE and so forth. Since when have you been asked, "How innovative have you been today?" It is no longer about how to build the better machine or a new type of machine. It is about how long and hard can we drive the machine until it breaks or needs new parts.
Another aspect:
I have been involved with providing support for all the Open Specification documents for the last 2+ years. It started with all the Windows Server protocols and later added all the Sharepoint, Office, Exchange protocols and file formats. The support we provide is to companies like Sun, IBM, Samba, Open Office, Novell to name just a very few. They have been working hot and heavy to create open source versions of all our products. One company even has an open source version of Exchange that runs on Linux that will even air sync with a Windows Mobile Smartphone as well as a Blackberry. There is no secret about any of this. Anyone that asks a question regarding these specs have to be answered in less than 30 days. Some managers I know foolishly believe that there is no real danger because they feel we will always be one step ahead of the open source movement by providing new features and capabilities. Microsoft has been riding the coattails of the cash cow product lines to fund poorly planned projects. It is just my opinion that in 24 months or less these companies will be flooding the market with Linux and open source versions of all our cash cows. The current global financial market is creating a perfect storm. Cloud computing sounds cool but how do you monetize it? If we don't address the threat of open source the company wil have some real serious problems to address. The company has more than 250 Vice Presidents that qualify for million dollar plus bonuses and a large number of Directors and General Managers that qualify for 250K - 350K - 500K bonues. This is also public info reported in the SEC filings. If they don't have a plan to address the open source movement they will not have enough employees to cut and still keep their choice bonuses. But perhaps by then they won't care because they will have banked enough to be financially independant for the rest of their lives.
I saw this rumor posting in yesterday's topic and apparently it's been confirmed today. Microsoft's oldest software product, Microsoft Flight Simulator, is no more.
http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=21981
***MINI***: If it's true, I'd appreciate it if you would mention it in your main post. Axing a profitable and highly respected product is such an astonishingly stupid decision that it deserves to be mentioned.
Flight Sim was made by a group called Aces Studio. While FS is very profitable, the full Aces Studio was not. Aces had over hired significantly, and had been focusing on the new ESP initiative to the detriment of the entertainment products increasingly over the last couple years. ESP was making almost zero revenue, costing a lot of money, and didn't line up with strategic objectives of the management chain in E&D.
Reality in your shitty division maybe, if you even really work here. Which I doubt because it is obvious half the posters here are posers. Jesus, the level of whining and sniveling I hear here is just EPIC.
----
I am not working there thanks God I left about 3 years ago. Then again your post makes me think how great the environment in Microsoft is. What is "shitty division" exactly? Half of posters here are your co-workers... Your post just confirms what I said - stay as far as possible from Microsoft. At least when Bummer and his team is in power.
>>The economy sucks people. Shit like this is gonna happen. All the gloaters at APPL and GOOG: your time is coming. Laugh while you can. People will soon be unable to prop up the "upgrade very year" APPL business model for that latest white cube.<<
I just find it amusing that you even have to spell this out to be honest. We have people in here gloating on behalf of Apple and Google as if these companies are magically immune from the down economy. Somebody even had the nerve to gloat about IBM's stellar results (I guess this was before he found out they were also laying off people...developers no less)
Do you know how many people get laid off or fired and have nothing? No benefits, no savings, no stock, no severance? People who are fired at 5pm and deep in debt at 5:01pm?
Dude, people picked Microsoft over other employers with certain expectations. Sure, there are employers that layoff with no severance, but such employers would not be able to attract the kind of talent that MS has been able to attract.
Given how well Microsoft is doing the severance is nothing to write home about. There are employers that offer better severances. This affects not just the employees who got laid off, but also the morale of employees like me who didn't get the ax this time around.
Knowing that MS may ax me for the slightest reason, and knowing the severance is only average, changes how I am going to work. From now on I'll try to work on projects where I'll gain experience useful outside MS. For example, I would not spend any time gaining experience in MS technologies that are on the decline such as COM (still used by many groups in MS), and instead try to acquire skills such as Javascript etc that I know will be useful at Google, Amazon and other places.
There is life after MSFT. Your managers and the company will try to convince you otherwise, but trust us, there is life outside of MSFT.
Don't be surprised if a lot of your former MSFT friends no longer speak or hang out with you as much when you leave. It is part of the arrogance of them no longer thinking you are designing technology for the future that everyone will need and use.
There are no more golden-handcuffs, so don't feel trapped by them.
As one of those former MSFT people who are being derided for not providing details of "life after Microsoft", I'll join in the growing chorus of ex-MSFT people with my viewpoint.
I was at Microsoft from early 1992 to spring 2005 and had a pretty unique function that I essentially created within the company, along with a small new team to fuel that function. For a good long while, I loved working at MS and thoroughly enjoyed my job - it was an absolute ideal situation for someone like me with purported "soft skills" (i.e., I was not a dev engineer or tech person of any kind). I'll note however that I've never been one to drink corporate kool-aid and was averse to joining MS - but I was right out of graduate school and desperate for work.
My decision to leave MS was based on many factors, the chief of which was feeling that I had accomplished pretty much everything I intended in my role. I had also had clear signs from my management at the time that I needed to either "aspire to be a VP" or leave. And just for the record, I have no axe to grind at all - only against a couple of very ill-placed managers who didn't have a clue what they were doing, let alone the intention of my role and team (which had been approved at the highest level).
So, I left with about 3 months worth of income in the bank. Naturally, I had made this decision about 6 months before I left the company and I had started small baby steps in my free time to get up to speed on starting my own business doing exactly the same function that I did at MS. As I said, I loved what I did at MS, I just got worn out from a parade of idiot middle managers who yearned to rise the ladder ASAP.
To jump start my business, I immediately leveraged my wide network of contacts both internal and external to MS and I was able to get a good contract with one company early on. This was encouraging and kept me afloat for about 4 months. When that ended, I had to furiously look for more work (that's a constant activity of course). Meanwhile, I was constantly drawing down whatever leftover stock and investments I had made while at MS in order to stay afloat.
So that's how it was for me in my niche area of consulting - picking up a new contract here and there while occasionally drawing down retirement reserves to keep the dream alive. Over time, the word of mouth has been invaluable and speaking at various conferences and networking has continued to pay off.
Here I am soon approaching Year 4 of self-employment and things aren't 100% stable, but they're in a much better position and steadily improving. At this point, I have no retirement fund. You know what? I really don't care...I never intended to retire anyway :) Call me short-sighted or blindly optimistic, but I realized at some point in 2008 that I had finally depleted every penny of anything I had earned at MS. And for whatever reason, that felt really, really good to me - a cathartic purging of my connection; i.e., I was truly on my own now.
After about 6 months of decompressing from the MS environment and realizing that I didn't have to live on email (or even use PCs and Windows anymore!), I found myself in a much better state of mind. My blood pressure has stayed nicely low ever since my departure and I don't spend time fretting about my next review. I've also been able to put a much larger % of my time towards charitable projects and volunteering, as well as working on at least 4 incubation projects that I never would have been able to do while at MS.
On the flip side, self-employment is tough and definitely not for everyone. There have been several times where I was seriously ready to throw in the towel, but something always happened just at the right time to keep me moving forward and motivated. Maybe I've just been lucky or blessed, but I'm glad to have MS as one of my clients (and hopefully will stay as such - we'll see) along with many MS competitors.
There is nothing like freedom and self-determination, and after that decompression period I felt like the veil of the "Matrix" had been lifted. All the corporate politics, angst and churn at MS seem like a big deal when you're there, but it's just a very small microcosm of the big picture. I now feel empowered to work beyond that limited environment and frankly, I feel like I'm a better person for it.
Sounds all rosy and happy? Perhaps, but it's not all great - things are tough and getting by can be a struggle. But for me and my personality, it's absolutely right.
For those of you who are really happy with MS as it is now, then more power to you. Don't leave - just stay and enjoy what works for you. I can tell you that MS was a far, far better place back in the early-mid 90's...a true Golden Age. I saw the company go from that to what it is today...and that's another key reason I left.
Best of luck to you, whichever path you tread, but if I were to choose again to stay at MS or leave, I would have left even earlier.
In what way is Songsmith a "rip-off" of Garage Band? GB is a DAW with online lessons that was built by a team of professional developers. It cost tens of millions of dollars to develop. It's a great piece of software, no doubt, but you already have to know what the heck you're doing to use it.
Songsmith is pretty much a novel application of voice (not speech) recognition prototyped by a few researchers on a shoestring budget. It can't even record audio. All it does is it comes up with chords that form a harmony with what you sing. To the best of my knowledge, there's no other product that does what Songsmith does.
How the heck is it a "rip-off"? I mean, WTF? If Microsoft wasn't so dysfunctional someone in E&D would have jumped on the idea and created a smash hit game out of it. Instead, while the internet is having fun with it on youtube by feeding it voice tracks from Rush and Metallica, you sit around and suggest to lay off the people who dare to think outside the box.
Full disclosure - I'm not a part of Songsmith v-team, but I know some of the people there.
Jan 24, 10:11:00 AM
Very nice write up. Thanks for sharing.
To Jan 24, 10:10:00 AM
The attitude is most prevalent in Redmond but leaks outwards.
I have been in Microsoft Consulting Services for more than 10 years. I won't say exactly how long because I am still employed. Knock on wood......
I was hired as a level 63 and advanced to a level 65 in a little more than 3 years. For those outside of Microsoft that is a Senior Architect type level and really is about as high as you can go unless you move from technical into management. I advanced fairly rapidly because I am good, I take care of customers and bill a lot of hours for the company. I don't say that to be arrogant. I say that to explain my dismay to what I am about to say. My reviews have always been better than averags for 10+ years. In the last 2 years I got a new Redmond based manager. In my last 2 reviews my manager felt it necessary to comment that I have been too long in role. She also said that I need to be seeking new ways to advance and grow.
Okay, WTF. There really is no advancement for a level 65 Senior Architect in consulting unless I perform a techno-ectomy and become a manager. I don't want to be a manager. I would not be good as a manager. I am very good at what I do. I keep having to reinvent myself because technology changes every 18 months. I bill lots of hours and make lots of money for Microsoft. I help sell lots of product into companies worldwide. But for this Redmond management drone I am too long in role. To me that says that being good and solid is not a desiralble thing to work towards.
I was not impacted by this lay off. But I will be honest and say that I am pretty scared. Will I be next? Will I be managed out for being too long in role? I once thought I wanted to stay here until I retired. But after seeing friends cut and listening to the useless Townhall meeting I am working on my resume this weekend and will start circulating in earnest next week. I suspect it will be a snap to land a position at one of the many companies I worked with as a Microsoft Consultant. I now think I was being delusional to think I was being appreciated here. I know I can provide the same or better more personalized service to these companies for cheaper than what they paid the Microsoft Consulting machine. I know I can do the same or better and not incur the Microsoft overhead. And I know that I will have no trouble keeping up with technology since the Microsoft training and readiness is so poorly done that I have to do it myself anyway. Most of the available training is 100-200 level marketing vomit. It is rare to find 300 level. I am expected to be at 400 level at my labor grade and billing amount.
To all my friends that lost their jobs this week I wish you the very best. Very best wishes for the very best people. Not a single one of you deserved to be cut. To cut you while the company is in the black and while you were generating money for the company is beyond comprehension. That is why I would not be a good mananger. I have to live in a world where logic prevails.
Oh my God, they killed Flight Simulator! You bastards!
I would love to see a green technology company (solar power, alt fuels, etc.) staffed entirely by ex-MSFT folks, and watch that company become the next MSFT or Boeing for the region.
What do you say?
Has anyone noticed that the manager feedback tool was eliminated for this Mid-Year??
If anyone had a doubt about what the company's values really are, or wonders how the bad quarter could have surprised these fools, this point really nails it. Put this one in your recruiting kit for next year folks...
Because of the WARN Act, I believe MS is required to provide at least 60 days' pay unless someone's being actually terminated for cause.
Only in the event that no notice had been given, as on 1/22. Here's the WARN penalty language:
An employer who violates the WARN provisions by ordering a plant closing or mass layoff without providing appropriate notice is liable to each aggrieved employee for an amount including back pay and benefits for the period of violation, up to 60 days. The employer's liability may be reduced by such items as wages paid by the employer to the employee during the period of the violation and voluntary and unconditional payments made by the employer to the employee.
It appears that they "rewarded" certain employees by given them notice on 1/22. As for the next 3600, the WARN clock is whittling away your comp as we speak.
Zune heading downward to oblivion. Hopefully good riddance, soon...
From WSJ Blog today:
Microsoft’s Zune Slips
By Nick Wingfield
As Engadget and others note, there’s a an interesting tidbit in Microsoft’s quarterly filing with the Securities and Exchange Commission about the state of the company’s Zune business, which consists of a portable music player and an online music service.
zune_E_20090123204856.jpg
ShinyHat1/Flickr
In the filing, Microsoft mentions a steep drop in Zune revenues in the holiday quarter compared to the same period the prior year. “Zune platform revenue decreased $100 million or 54% reflecting a decrease in device sales,” notes the filing.
Those figures imply Zune revenue during the holiday 2007 quarter was around $185 million and that it fell to $85 million over the most recent holiday period.
It’s no surprise Microsoft’s Zune business is small compared to the competition, Apple’s iPod, which generated $3.37 billion in revenue over the holiday quarter. Apple also saw a 16% decline in iPod revenue in the period, though its units rose 3%, suggesting a consumer shift to less expensive iPods and some cannibalization of iPod sales by the iPhone.
At its much faster rate of decline, the Zune player looks like it’s headed from low to no market share — unless Microsoft jazzes up the product soon.
If you are laid off what happens to the health benefits? Do you have to pay out of pocket. If I were to get the same medical insurance (that Microsoft provides) on my own that, how much would it cost me.
I believe you get an extension to health benefits through COBRA for several months.
FAQs About COBRA Continuation Health Coverage
You can get health coverage through the Microsoft Alumni Network if you own your own business.
MSA offers a broad range of personal and professional benefits to its members
Does anyone know what the trickle-down impact on vendors will be? Do you work with vendors?
Vendors and contractors will make less money to help Microsoft meet budget or face getting cut. Most are choosing the former over the latter.
Can anyone that attended the town hall in person tell us what they edited out of the recorded video at the end? There's a question that Ballmer answers, a jarring cut and now Lisa is holding the mic, and then they end.
Oh-My-God. The Microsoft Town Hall Video Politburo totally cut out the asian guy who challenged SteveB about bad hires at Microsoft.
They left in the lady who demanded from Ballmer a I'm Sorry but dropped the guy looking for accountability in the bad hires and over-hiring.
Folks who were there: please verify yourself. This happens around 53:20.
A canary just dropped dead.
http://www.crn.com/it-channel/212902345
Well, if this doesn't help Ballmer to decide to "spend more time with the family", then I don't know what will.
"I'm not the original poster, but being an ex-msft I agree with this and others with similar ideas. I have a great life now. Don't think much about it if you're in that process - Keep it cool - Leave with elegance no mattter what your situation is. Granted my time at Microsoft was great. Some good moments, some not so good though, but that's the way it's through life. There's a beginning and an end to all experiences. I learnt that the important aspect is to recognize when it's time to end gracefully. I waited for a bit more than I should, so my last months were not that good - but that was my fault and no one else. Overall my time at MS was great - can't complain. I grew up profesionally and personally. I met lots of folks from so many nationalities and backgrounds and that enriched my life tremendously.
Good luck to all of you affected by the recent cuts. Things can only get better from here"
I got to tell you from all the whining that has been going on , this one of the best . The only other one is that of the lady whose husband got laid off .. My best wishes to her family and all those who got affected by the cuts .. May your lives be on tracks ASAP..
Interesting letter from Senator to Mr. Baldloser head. http://grassley.senate.gov/news/Article.cfm?customel_dataPageID_1502=18922
Interesting indeed. But even more fascinating will be the answers and numbers that SteveB has to provide. The questions are right to the point, so they can not answer with typical kool-aid like they do to us in town hall meetings ,1-on-1's, all hands, etc. If the number of American citizens being laid off outnumber those of H1B's , it will create a very - very interesting proposition. Moreover, I can imagine CNN's Lou Dobbs will be more than happy to follow up on this exchange of letters, responses and the statistics presented. Great to see Sen. Grassley, from Iowa, bringing out these questions.
Some of the researchers in Songsmith are involved in many strategic projects, unlike many other researchers who would be equally useful to Microsoft if they were employed by a university.
The problem which research division faces is that the burden of collaboration with product folks lies solely on the researchers. Product folks do not even give researchers any time without ten S+. And it is the research folks who travel to the building of the product folks.
Microsoft spends hundreds of millions of dollars in running the research division, but does not spend even tens of millions of dollars with in the product teams to give ears to the research division. Of course every dollar you give to the product teams, they would spend it in supporting or adding new features within the framework of existing roadmap. So what's needed is that Microsoft take it innovation at equal priority as adding new features. By innovation I mean, not only adding new features but doing something ability of doing which did not exist, even in the competitors product. That does not require any extra dollars, it only requires better optimization, that is 100% on adding/supporting features and 0% on innovation can be improved by 95% on adding/supporting feature and 5% on innovation. All Microsoft needs is to insist that every program manager should have a research/innovation related commitment. Interestingly it is the program managers who does not like research ideas, whereas the developers always get excited by listening to new innovations and possibilities it creates.
Once program managers have innovation related commitment then it is up to them whether they can do their own research or collaborate with the researchers. You would see that both the amount and quality of collaboration between researchers and the product group would increase. In few years you would also see that our products would reflect more innovation and Microsoft would be seen by people including as an innovating company.
Does any body have a breakup of number of cuts per region?
To the level 65 person who can not and does not want to grow into mgt: try to get de-leveled if you want to stay there. It is possible if you really like to stay and if they want to keep you around. Just start the discussion soon, before the review so it can happen then.
I LOVE the GREEN company proposal. Some other IT companies are actually doing it internally since they figured their carbon footprint (combined for all these servers) will be the same as the entire airline industry by 2020 or sooner. We got so many smart people to save this planet.
Oh-My-God. The Microsoft Town Hall Video Politburo totally cut out the asian guy who challenged SteveB about bad hires at Microsoft.
Chillllll - no they didn't. That dude is around 40 minutes into the video. Geez.
Stumped by slump, US executives give up trying to predict earnings. Some companies cited "lack of visibility" and withheld quartely or full year forecasts for earnings, including MS, Intel, Ebay, CNH Global. GE did not layo out a numerical EPS target at Wall Street last month. These are quotes from a recent Reuters article btw. My comment: start building that 6 month cushion and work hard to keep your boss happy.
I have a team meeting on Monday. My bet is that we'll all walk into the meeting room and act as if nothing happened last week, and that the team member who left in tears won't be spoken of again. My manager, a true leader in the Microsoft mold, will be too freaked out by the potential legal issues (and worse, by the potential of anyone displaying any emotion) to say anything, and it would be a CLM to say anything myself--and CLMs are to be avoided at all costs in the face of "3,600 to go."
"Microsoul" indeed. Such a fine place to work.
5 people laid off from my group. Ages were all clustered around 44.
Our family uses healthcare. Can you guess if I was one of the 5 laid off? A coincidence?
I think not.
Oh wait. And I had been there 9 years.
BTW, if I read the severence docs correctly, one gets the following:
1) 60 days until actual termination
2) 60 days base severence plus 1 week for every 6 months rounded to the closest 6 month period
3) money to cover the cost of COBRA through ones severence period.
4) Unused vacation time.
Since I have a mortgage to pay, and a family to feed, I will take the buy off.
One last thought...the review process is the most demotivating tool I have ever encountered. And it has nothing to do with the actual work accomplished for the good of the empire. One is stack-ranked in May, well ahead of when our reviews are written. Nothing I could possibly say would affect my stack-ranking for the better. What a farce and a sham. I enjoyed the atmosphere and camraderie of a start-up better and only put up with this crap to have "stability". (again what a farce).
At least now I am forced to find something better (ie more humane) on the outside.
Trusting for a better tomorrow for me, the wife and the kids.
There were 50 cuts in Fargo...mostly marketing...mostly women...very talented people with tons of experience, probably the people on their teams that did 90% of the work, but weren't ever recognized because the three-slide beauty queens took all the credit and kept their jobs...welcome to Microsoft!
Those who got the 60 days just had friends in high places. The told us that it was random...LOL.
Did anyone recognize the fact that we were 2% above where we were last year??????
My area was 12% above last year at this time...that's reason for layoff?!
@Saturday, January 24, 2009 5:24:00 PM
"From now on I'll try to work on projects where I'll gain experience useful outside MS."
+1... I'm even thinking about switching disciplines: if you're going to join a startup, you're probably going to be a dev...
Reposting because I received a strange error from blogger.com
If you were just laid off or know someone that was, please contact us at msftalumni@gmail.com
I think we have some interesting topics to discuss.
Many great people who have earned high review scores and performance awards in long, successful careers have been laid off. From VP, to partner, to principle and lower levels - I'm know many of them and I am one of them - with over 15 years. I ventured into a group that became targeted and was in a position that was vulnerable. I accept that and expect a great future - no matter where it is.
Does anyone really believe that SteveB and LisaB and the like up there care about the employees, laid off or not? wake up, they never did and never will. This is a for-profit company, not a charity, and they don't need to be. This is a capitalist country, and as Car Marx said: "Captial which comes into the world soiled with mire from top to toe and oozing blood from every pore'". So, take the sentiment out of this situation, and deal with it like tis is, laid off or not.
Anonymous at 5:13pm wrote:
I have been involved with providing support for all the Open Specification documents for the last 2+ years.
If so, then we almost HAVE to know each other and it's very likely you received my goodbye email. Hi there. ;-) I'm wondering how they're going to explain the loss of two heads related to that work, to the regulatory agencies. Any idea? Send me mail.
Being a former Microsoft MVP with a different different history sticking with responsibilities in my own job, I have often wondered how Microsoft can actually believe to be productive when people are switching jobs every year or so. Existing knowledge is leaving, new folks need time to get up to speed. This seems like an incredible way to waste efficiency.
And even to an outsider with limited exposure to the inner workings, the vast amount of management positions vs. actual developers is stunning. However, you then actually unserstand why products happen to evolve quite slowly over years when two dozens of skilled developers let loose could have really almost changed the world.
I fail to see how the layoff is going to change anything in this regard. Unfortunately, it rather seems like a chance lost in a big way.
Get rid of management and processes, have skilled folks keep their job for longer times, empower developers to shape the product.
Fellow displaced MS workers - YOU are not alone, Together, WE are doing great things. Thank you Mini for your leadership.
Sorry Microsoft, you've met your match - you've under estimated the combined power of social media and really smart people who know and speak the TRUTH. What better time to expose how unethical, greedy billionaires exploit loopholes in the American immigration system to lower the cost of labor worldwide.
Don't sign anything until you talk to a lawyer. Write your elected official and the media DAILY until something is done. The best for us is yet to be.
I leave you with this gift from the Seattle Times
http://blog.seattletimes.nwsource.com/techtracks/2009/01/23/senator_wants_microsoft_to_preserve_american_jobs.html#more
Update, 7:28 p.m.: Microsoft did respond to queries in the evening with this statement:
"We made the difficult decisions on which jobs would be eliminated based on a detailed assessment of our current and future business opportunities. The initial reductions we announced affect employees in a number of business units, and a significant number of the affected employees are foreign citizens working in this country on a visa. We recognize the human impact that our workforce reduction has on every affected worker and their families. For many of the employees here on a visa, being laid off means that they have to leave the country on very short notice, in many cases uprooting families and children. We care about all our employees, so we are providing services and support to try to help every affected worker, whether they are U.S. workers or foreign nationals working in this country on a visa."
"This is a for-profit company, not a charity"
People like you need to leave with Ballmer. The people fired weren't getting charity, you prick. Keep that attitude and you'll be surrounded by the rest of your middle management brotheran wondering who is going to do the hard work.
The only charity at MSFT is carrying around a stinking blackjack instead of an iPhone pretending that they know what they're doing in Mobile and that pink is going to fix everything.
Hey Saturday, January 24, 2009 8:20:00 PM...
If you have "Interesting topics to discuss" the discussion will be quite limited with a munged email address...
I tried to send you mail at the gmail account in your post (twice) and it always bounces. You might want to check your spelling of the account (fat fingers somewhere?).
Or maybe LCA has already clamped down and you've been rendered off to Gitmo...
I think there might some merit to the original poster's claim that some sort of total burden cost formula was used as part of the decision making process. If that's true, perhaps this will give people more incentive to reduce their health costs by taking better care of themselves and reduce their overall burden numbers to the company. This would be in addition to doing the best job you can to not end up in the 10% bucket.
Maybe it's easy for me to say. I'm probably one of the lowest-maintenance folks around. Male Single, 31. I'm a fitness freak, so God forbid any issues, but so far my health has been excellent. I visit my dentist 2x a year for routine check-ups, vision exam once very 2 years, and see my doctor 1x a year for my annual check-up. This has been going on the entire time I've been here (7 years). It's quite possible I've cost Microsoft less in 7 years than most people in one year. So, other than my base salary, I really don't cost Microsoft much at all. (I'm a career 70/A BTW, with a couple of 20/Es to my name)
Again, people with families are not in the same situtation, so my message is directed more at some of the lazy slobs I see walking around the campus every day, who should probably make bigger effort to use their Pro-club membership more often.
I've been at MS for 5 years. Yes, its always been bad management. All problems go straight to SteveB. He wants it run like Walmart. Anyway, I'm starting to understand why people vote in unions.
If we unionized, we might at least end up waking steveB up! If the company collapses...oh well. Some new company without steveb or billg will fill the void. New management would be worth it. I don't like unions, except for dangerous word, but how else do we fix (get rid of management) a company where the CEO is a failure? If the keep firing us because they can't lead then we need to unionize to stop them.
We need to remember that the American people run this country, not the CEOs. These are "public" corporations. Corporations are chartered by the federal government, they are essentially a regulation. So they are created by the people. We own them, not the shareholders. The idea that shareholders own the company is silly. Shareholder's can't be sued, they can't be held liable for any action of the corporation. You can't say you own something you have no responsibility for. It just silly.
Private companies are different. They can do what they want. Fire everyone...who cares. The owners are responsible. But corporations are completely different. The American people need to wake up!
Steve and Bill actually know we won't do anything about it. Well they hope we won't. I worry that we won't until things get too bad. I wish we would do something now when the pressure is still at a safe level.
On the subject of Microsoft performance reviews, this is one aspect of my 12+ year MS career (which voluntarily ended 3+ years ago) that I consistently despised. It became abundantly clear, as others here have noted, that stack ranking was performed well in advance of written reviews, and in the end, whatever you wrote counted for naught.
Managers don't give a crap how you choose to justify your performance (or lack thereof in their eyes). They're only concern is making the numbers work and ensuring that they play the game - so that one day they can rise higher and be further immune from this cruel and utterly ridiculous process.
I gave up on my reviews about halfway into my career. I truly didn't give a crap how they turned out. Each successive manager had their own weird quirky way of interpreting the review process, so I just concentrated on my job and did my best - and had many internal clients to prove it. That's where all my job satisfaction came from - I knew I was making a difference to those who mattered (my peers).
Someone needs to write a book...something like: "Microsoft Reviews: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love my Job".
I am definitely dissapointed with the decision. This is not the company I originally would like to work for. I agree with many voices already saying that this cut in a random fashion do no good for long term and it brings down morale of the employees. I am a high performers in my years at microsoft and here is what I have done yesterday. I have been in touch with my Google recruiter that has been offering my position a while back. It is time to say goodbye to company that is now seem to lose their own values. The recent layoff decision to me looks baseless. It is more of a results of Execs/Managers probably do anything just to please their bosses and protect their butt. They prefer to made cut irrationally (e.g. not performance based but blatantly for the sake of short term cost cut) rather than to preserve and protect the biggest company assets! The PEOPLE! Why don't you cut BUS,BUILDING, and so many other venues. Why PEOPLE! It is the most valuable assets at Microsoft. If profit is down the head to be cut-off should be Mr. VP/President not top people or Engineer!
>Let's see, Small Business Server 2008 which was hammered with headcount losses and attrition pulls in like 95% of the revenue and Essential Business Server which was more heavlily staffed only pulls in like 5%, yet SBS loses 3 people and EBS loses none? What the fuck? Looks like we know which PUM bends over and which drives.
This is so true for other products - Response Point vs OCS. Response Point has 30 or so people but delivered a complete UC system for SMB 2 years earlier than the OCS team. OCS really demonstrated a bloated team takes much longer time to deliver...
One person from my team was let go. I really admire him because he was in great spirits and was looking forward to a new job. For gods sake, I am working on a product which is three years behind its time and where adding a small new feature needs begging/approval from layers of middle managers, PMs and PUM. How the f**k are we going to wow customers given this level of beuracracy.
>> You know, in this thread and so many others on this blog, I've read 100s of comments that come down to this:
>> "I'm an ex-MSFT, I'm glad I left, there's life outside of MSFT, and I'm very happy."
>> Yet, not once has any of these people even offered a hint of what this "life" outside Microsoft is. I'm getting sick and tired of it. If you're really sincere, how about a bit more substance next time you post?
==================================
Hi,
I am one of those ex-MSFT's who is extremely happy to have landed a different job. Here's why:
1. My new company pays attention to me. I can walk to the HR, the director, my manager, anytime without fear and get my voice heard and queries answered in a respectful manner. At MS, when I was leaving, the HR didn't even ask "how can we help?", "can we help u find alternatives within MS?". That means a lot to me!
2. I get the respect I deserve. Folks around me try to 'see the point' being made rather than blindly pushing for their own 'arrogant views'. At MS, I have had nasty discussions with the Group PM who insisted on doing something (which had very little value even to the customers - saving a few bytes in their storage space) which was opposed by several SDEs (considering the design change) including the Team lead.
3. Processes only to help. We now have only meaningful processes and only when required. At MS, toward the end of the cycle, the Devs had to walk up to the test manager of our group to get a silly BUG unlocked so that they can check-in one line of change. That's the level of confidence the Test has in Devs!
4. Working hard pays outside MS. I have been climbing up the ladder very smoothly outside MS as I am competing with not-so-terribly-bright guys (but intelligent enough to do their job). At MS, one has to work for 16 hours a day only to save one's job?? That sounds stupid to me.
5. There are more reasons...
Simply put, 'life' for me began outside MS.
I'm one of those Microserfs now looking for work. By and large I've found these comments by and large a place for comfort and great advice.
But I still feel pretty isolated and uninformed.
Is there a dedicated space for "the 1400" to discuss their stories, swap legal advice, and begin working on their next steps?
I for one don't need anymore advice along the lines of "get over it this is capitalism."
The problem which research division faces is that the burden of collaboration with product folks lies solely on the researchers. Product folks do not even give researchers any time without ten S+. And it is the research folks who travel to the building of the product folks.
The performance management system is set up for rewarding individual work; not teamwork.
A developer that does something on their own will get a higher score than someone that looks weaker because they used someone else's (research) work.
The way things currently work at Microsoft is making them a lot of money. They really don't need your ideas of how to do things better.
You can spend years at Microsoft feeling powerless saying 'If only they did this, things would be so much better.' or you can start your own company.
I hope the insurance/utilisation FUD is not true. Else there might be several people who might stop seeing their doctors due to this.
Once again the MS leadership has really screwed this up. Neither are the shareholders happy, nor the people who are let go or the employees.
The Pink Slip Special: Startup deals for laid-off Microsoft workers (updated)
UPDATE: Some helpful comments, plus Seattle entrepreneur Roy Leban suggests attending a "Startup Brainstorming Session" from 2-5 p.m. Feb. 5, also at StartPad.
From his invite announcement:
"The goal of the session is for entrepreneurs and would-be entrepreneurs to have an opportunity to discuss their ideas with others in a supportive environment. If you come with an idea, I hope you walk away with an improved idea or an improved understanding of how you can make it real. If you come without an idea, I hope you walk away inspired."
Startup Brainstorming Session
Roy Leban is hosting a Startup Brainstorming Session at StartPad on Thursday, Feb 5th, from 2PM-5PM. If you have an idea, half an idea, concept, or thoughts for a business, or even if you don't have an idea but are interested in possibly working with someone else, come join us. Roy will moderate to the extent that a moderator is useful, but his aim is to get everybody talking to each other. Mike Koss, launch director at StartPad, will also join in.
Seattle Tech Startups
We’re a group of entrepreneurs in the Seattle area who give and seek advice on running technology startups. We meet about once or twice a month.
This is targeted at founders of, employees of, or those folks interested in joining local technology companies. Be ready to talk shop, get into technical arcana, and discuss the nitty-gritties of running/working at/launching a tech startup.
New blog that has additional comments from inside the mothership: http://msftobserver.wordpress.com/.
I switched to a large group recently and am remote so I don't really know who got laid off in my group other than it was probably >1.
However, I just learned of who got laid off in my previous group and I'm pissed and surprised at who they let go. At my location, it was 2 devs, a dev lead, a tester and a principal PM! I worked w/one of the devs and one of the testers and they weren't bad guys. At the other location, it was mostly dev and UA. The tester has been w/the company ~20 years!
The group was understaffed as is given its ambitious plans.
I'm still pissed that there was no mention of cutting executive/partner compensation (SPSA and all). I'm just seething that we somehow had the $ to buy Yahoo, pay partners $1 billion in stock, still make over $4 billion last quarter yet have to cut like this. My previous group always made money to make up for the other fuck ups in E&D.
MS is just another company in corporate America, complete w/greedy management just looking after themselves instead of the little guy. The execs need to take one for the team. It might save a few jobs along the way.
I used to support Ballmer and BillG but w/all of this, my opinion of Ballmer has hit an all time low.
WTF did we give clueless Kevin Turner $16.2 million in stock? I love his quote from http://news.cnet.com/Microsoft-to-Google-Hands-off-enterprise-search/2100-1012_3-6094002.html. I guess he's never used Sharepoint search.
Many entries ago, someone mentioned JeffO. Is his group only composed to folks who do Office help? If so, they should've cut 80-90% of those guys.
I don't get it, US citizens get displaced because they or their families experience medical issues. Does Microsoft factor the fully burdened cost of a guest worker into a layoff decision too?
I believe Microsoft reimburses fees for all sorts of immigration costs for example
Non-Immigrant Visa Filings
Photographs for non-immigrant petitions
Legal fees for H, L, TN, E03 & O petitions
Legal fees for J-1 waivers
Legal fees for spousal visas
Required Visa fees
Stamp and Associated fees for initial entry from abroad
Visa Stamp & Associated fees for individuals with lapses in immigration status prior to joining MSFT
Visa Stamp Fees (i-94 card)
Costs associated with obtaining visa stamps such as travel, lodging, meals, etc.
Visa stamp and associated fees for individuals choosing not to file as a change of status
Fees associated with entry fees from Canada or Mexico
Fees associated with applying for Canadian TN Admission - required travel to eastern border
Immigrant Visa Filings (adjustments of status/green card filings)
Green card - Normal legal and processing fees.
Standard Medical - standard medical costs with USCIS physician for foreign national and dependents
Non-standard medical - Antibody and vaccination costs
Transfer to MSFT subsidiary
Forgot to mention: We should kill Zune and search. They're both lost causes.
We haven't made any traction in either of those, esp. Zune. It makes no sense to pump more people and $ into search.
To the "fitness freak" in 1/24/09 10:38:00PM who blames people for not using thier pro club membership more often. Someone being fat didn't give their kid a disease, and you shouldn't fire someone because they want to save their kids life.
I hope you end up reporting to a tubby bastard like me someday. Spinning class isn't getting you to a break in my org.
My understanding of middle management is the following people:
PUM
GPM
Dev Mgr
Test Mgr
Group Mgr
etc
So, basically, people in the 64-66 range, level-wise.
The majority of these people absolutely contribute nothing at Microsoft. They're obstructionists more so that being supposed "visionaries". The list of things these folks do on a daily basis:
-1:1s
-Various "Directs" meetings
-Spend a couple of hrs at the Pro Club
-Trade Stocks, surf the web, play solitaire, and other goof-off activies
-Bail by 5pm
We have thousands of these people whose elimination will be a huge win for the company. We need to rebuild the whole damn org-chart. Every IC should be skip-level from the Director/GM of his/her group. What the heck is up with the IC-Lead-Mgr-PUM-GM structure? What is the significance of these extra layers of fat? Why isn't someone looking into these bloated orgs across every division, and simply flatten them, literally?
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