Microsoft Layoffs - Cinco de Fire-O
Well, if ever you wanted to console yourself with some tequila, today might be your day. Phase Two of the big Microsoft 2009 layoff engages today.
- Microsoft continues layoff plan, eliminates thousands more jobs - TechFlash Seattle's Technology News Source
- Steve Ballmer's internal memo on Microsoft's latest round of layoffs - TechFlash Seattle's Technology News Source
- Microsoft Starts The Layoff Machine Again Steve Ballmer’s Memo To The Troops Peter Kafka MediaMemo AllThingsD
Is this it? Will there be more? From Mr. Ballmer's email:
With this announcement, we are mostly but not all done with the planned 5,000 job eliminations by June 2010.
Strangely, Ms. Brummel have asked folks to avoid emailing each other today because the last layoff's email volume was so distracting. Gee, sorry to be a bother while people are trying to figure out what the hell is going on. Let's see... how to avoid that... I know, tell people what the hell is going on and which people / groups are affected. Oy.
Please, if affected by today's events, note which group you're in and any messaging about things going forward (as appropriate and proper).
(And please, Ms. Brummel, if you talk to the troops about this, don't share how people affected by the layoff are thanking you - that just seems creepy.)
Dropping moderation for today, but as usual: be responsible. I will delete comments later that are off-topic, along with any other comments that react to the deleted comments. If in doubt, go visit the CRF parallel thread: http://minimsftcrf.blogspot.com/2009/05/comment-stream-microsoft-layoffs-cinco.html
1,545 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 401 – 600 of 1545 Newer› Newest»I feel so sorry for those talents that are cut today, just want to say, it's not your fault, please hang on and rebound, hope you guys can find a new position in the near future.
I joined MSFT 2 years ago and I am in one of the current two big cash cows in MSFT, for me, I have some thoughts about what I experienced.
1. I found that in office and windows which are 'old' groups, normally it will take 1.5 to 2 years to be promoted no matter whether you work hard or not, it's just like a formalized procedure, but in Live search, mobile or other new groups, they get promoted every year, is this fair? i am very confident that not only me feels this way, many new guys in our big div feel this.
2. I totally agree that we should invest in future trend like search and probably invest hard, but does this mean that the current great cash generating groups should be sacrificed to the future groups? This really hurt the morale of the cash generating groups especially new guys. but maybe, new guys are nothing, nobody cares. I think we need balance, right?
3. as for live search, seems time has already proved that we can't do this only by ourselves, why flirting with yahoo for so long, we need to make a deal as soon as possible, or i'm afraid we'll never have a chance, who knows whether another player will come out and still the #3 or even #2 place in search area.
4.In our groups, the new guys worked on the new features for this release, and some of the senior guys even don't have any new feature, why? shouldn't the senior guy work on the critical features?
5. also, i feel in MSFT, nobody cares the forefront engineer's ideas, that's why we don't have innovation for a long time, really, now what we do is to try to copy new ideas that has been proved fantastic for about 2 or 3 years(like ipod) and then come up with a product that goes nowhere.
People actually have real half hour meetings, you know...
"To find who got laid off, look at people's calendars. If they have one half hr appt. on tuesday - they were given pink slip"
What a foolproof way to find things out? of course, no one at MSFT has 30 min meetings otherwise...
To the troll referring to the XBOX "Fiasco", you posted at least three posts of almost identical nature (including over-use of the words "fiasco" and "trainwreck" in each) in at least two other mini-posts this year.
GTFO, you're arguing that a company you've never worked for should cut an entire section of R&D as it becomes profitable because it cost money to get running..? You even heaped blame for all of XBOX's problems on Ballmer, except that Ballmer wasn't CEO when the first XBOX was released? GTFO.
On an unrelated note, wow, what a coincidence, my captcha is sactiou o.0
"MSFT didnt become what it is today by closing ranks and protecting its assets, it took chances in markets it had no business being in, and succeeded."
Huh? That's exactly what it did. Even garnered a felony conviction for trying to protect those assets illegally. The only success it has ever had outside of Windows and Office is Servers, and that leveraged the success of those products. Everything else failed.
"The company must make big bets, and when one bets big, one occasionally loses big (hello search)."
Occasionally? Every big bet but Servers failed to pay off. Every single one.
After a long day I took the time to review the posts here today. To my surprise I saw posts on SBA -the group under VP SanjayP in Craig Mundie's domain.
Yes, three incubation product groups were eliminated today - Response Point, MSN Direct, etc. They are gone...
A sad day since this was the division that was to help bring innovation to marketplace for the company.
The depressing fact is that the creative and hardworking people are gone. The people who played 'Yes' to SanjayP and staff and added no value remain. So Sad.
I am frustrated with Mr.Balmer and the chronie VP's, why can't they take a hit on thier bonouses and salary? I am sure we can save a lot more that way then take the day to day workers.
Well, solved my whole "should I stick around" internal debate...
Got the axe :)
Three months after a gold star.
GG.
Ah well, more power to ghetto golden parachutes whilst I find a better gig.
(Got the 60 days, 1 week per 6 months, et al.)
A quick note to inform all Microsofties, today saw the end of the ANZ GTSC CTS operation. While not a surprise to me and the others effected, it is a sad day to see our jobs go off-shore to China. It troubles me to see this once software’s industry leader now focusing on $ rather than staff and customers.
To all others effected by these changes, my wishes go out to you hoping that things turn out right for you in the end.
Are jobs being moved to China?
I see jobs being cut in US/France and India.But not in China.. why ??
any thoughts ?
minimsft-india, can you stop now? you are making every indian look like a fool
What about Media Center in E&D?
Since HR isn't going to do us a favor of tallying up the affected groups, how about we use Mini's blog. Maybe everybody with some info can use a form like this:
Group name:
Exec/VP alias:
# and type of roles:
I'm not a MS employee, so you can ignore my comments if you wish. But I do know what layoffs are like-been there myself.
Microsoft will never be the leader it was in the '80s and '90s if it remains in its current form. The OS products are bloated as are the Office products. You've failed at MSN and you're late to market w/Zune. Someone else on this blog mentioned your insignificant Virtualization presence. Oracle will always be a more 'adult' database. I could go on.
These shortcomings are NOT (repeat NOT) the fault of the many talented MS professionals. Rather, they're a result of a large, unwieldy bureaucracy, a la GM, Chrysler, AOL-Time Warner, Sun, etc.
MS Senior Leadership must make the hard decision to jettison large portions of the current company as fully formed independent companies before the top-heavy SS Microsoft capsizes.
Good luck to those facing layoffs.
I was dearly hoping to get my own pink slip today, but our group has been spared any lay-offs. Instead, I can now look forward to being fired without any severance sometime in the next month or so.
Many people are being fired for "poor performance" in my division, and my boss has made it clear that I am one of those candidates for termination. I noticed a definite uptick in firings over the last couple months leading up to the lay-off, but considering how many people I meet who are under performance improvement plans, it's clear the firings are far from over.
I could only dream of getting laid off.
I actually agree that the company needs to downsize (much more than the 5000 announced redundancies, in fact). However, I think there are more humane ways to go about the culling without messing with people's minds, and nit-picking on their work to build cases for termination.
Yes, some of the people I know who have been fired were genuinely poor performers. But there are others who are great assets, but have rubbed people the wrong way, or gotten in political hot water, one way or the other. What message does it send to the remaining employees when they see people they respect (many of whom have worked here for many years) getting shown the door with nothing more than a negative comments about how lousy they are?
One friend who was recently fired even told me how their manager came to the exit meeting armed with documentation of their poor quality work to further justify why the termination was taking place. When you are actually firing someone, why in God's name do you have to try and rub it in? What can it possibly accomplish by further elaborating on perceived incompetence when there is a security guard at the ready to march them to the door?
All I can say is that I am eagerly looking forward to getting a new job on the outside. The very last thing I would want now is another job at Microsoft.
@7:24pm, the email from Rajesh today said that Exchange wasn't cutting anyone.
Just finished reading the entire thread. Layoffs are not complete. Don't count your chickens before they hatch. Remember twice as many laid off as in first round. HR can't execute with precision... not enough HR Generalists to do the reduction in force. Some organizations are done, but other organizations will continue through end of Wednesday. Good luck.
Here's what I've learned so far from this whole layoff thing.
Management isn't willing to make really painful cuts or set some big audacious goal. Just blood-letting, superstition, and repetition.
Management wasn't "open and honest" about the cuts we did make: people, groups, and products that got cut, and why. I shouldn't have to open Headtrax and export to Excel every month.
No one's accountable. "I screwed up; I'm sorry" isn't that tough to say. I've been saying it since I got here.
Everyone else is to blame. Just look at all the scapegoating and finger-pointing here.
Mini-Microsoft is still the best place to get data. Even with the noise, the S/N ratio is higher here because management's Signal is zero.
Things are going to be like this for awhile. I know I'm not going to get a raise this year. I know my stock award will be half what it was last year. I don't know when or if the sword will drop. I do know that worrying about it won't change the outcome.
But I do have a job, health insurance, and free coffee. So, I'm going to get back to work. Anyone else care to join me?
@5:37pm
"The console market is insanely competitive, you need to make investments to get the benefits down the road. Welcome to the real world outside Vista and Office where you actually need to compete."
Yawn... wake me up once you're in the black. So far you Xbox wizards are mooching off Windows and Office to the tune of ~8 billion.
People who quit will not be able to collect unemployment insurance. Don't quit, get fired or let go.
@10:03 May 5 -- So did he have a sense of humor?
I just got the meeting request from my manager. Rather than just accept, I suggested an alternate time--next December 23rd. Let's see if he has a sense of humor.Wishing you well.
Corp D&PE division seems largely unaffected. Walid Abu-Habda (CVP) sent out an e-mail at 5 pm saying all those affected by the layoffs have been notified. Didn't see any goodbye e-mails come through my mailbox all day and nobody has mentioned anybody getting laid off.
Microsoft laysoff and MEEZA is hiring! Please let us know if you are interested in joining a high growth fast moving startup located in Doha, Qatar.
We need you.
http://www.meeza.com.qa/output/Page155.asp
It's been pretty bad in MSIT India. Very depressing to see people sitting next to you leaving :-(
How can the #1 World's software company with large profits and billions of dollars in the bank have stock at $20 per share while out competitors eat our lunch in this area?
The large shareholders are the ones that matter to Steve Ballmer. They're the ones that can make a difference in the board of directors.
Those shareholders use Microsoft stock for the dividend.
The days that Microsoft is used as a growth stock in a portfolio are over.
The partners in the company get large awards. They don't need the stock price to go up. They'll get more next review period too.
Ballmer has no reason to listen to you. Microsoft's making money. Why change? He thinks he just fired any problems he had.
I would also be happy with a pay cut assuming it can help prevent further layoffs. If senior mgmt is listening, I wonder if they can do a poll or survey to find out how many of us feel this way.
"To find who got laid off, look at people's calendars."
[snip]
Not for all groups. Our group had three meetings with two being cuts.
To those with gripes about our direction: I share your disappointment. Unfortunately, I actually like where I am. I prefer MS as an employer over Apple from a culture standpoint, not an innovator standpoint.
We work in a culture where blocking -as in each other in a work setting- is the norm. MS is riddled with it. Change if it ever comes will be slow. So for you creative folks out there: if you feel it's an investment worth making, figure out a way to innovate from within the org. That means networking, coming up with a solid plan, and executing. Don't overshoot, be realistic.
To the naysayers on my above suggestion: yep, I hear ya. I would prefer putting effort into my own company or a guaranteed win. Thing is, I'd like to do *something* rather than just point at Google and say "I wish I were there" or go back to running my own business. The time is right for some people to move on and all the best to you. I'm not ready just yet and I think others would like to stay as well.
At this stage I'd prefer to see how effective I can be in a, shall we say, resistant environment. You're going to block me? Good. I'll spend the next few months honing skills to work around that crap. Getting buy-in from your peers is almost as gratifying as getting financial and career rewards from a job well done.
... TechNet Magazine and MSDN Magazine editorial staff are completely gone after this round of cuts. Flash lives on. That's about 15 blue and orange positions eliminated in total...
This makes a lot of sense. Microsoft does not need both Technet and MSDN. There is too much overlap.
Both groups should merge once and for all and be done with it.
Layoffs in MCS. "Your role has been eliminated" ... What? I'm a consultant, just as everyone else in here!
i don't hear a lot of "People Readiness" coming out of these comments...
Any news on GFS?
The truly "lucky" were in the 1400. Those notified today are still marginally "lucky." You are in the "envy the dead" my friend.Had I read this a few months ago, I would have spit at my screen. I still don't feel "lucky" to have been let go in the first round -- I had to make some painful decisions as a result and I watched a healthy stockpile of stock awards I'd busted my ass to earn go poof -- but I am glad I didn't have to deal with the prolonged (and, for many, continuing) stress of uncertainty. Once the shock wore off, I was able to move on.
I had a wonderful MS experience, far removed from the Redmond shark tank. I had good leaders, good challenges and good opportunities to grow and learn. I shipped products. I took pride in my work. I interacted every day with smart, skilled and talented people.
I have deep respect for everyone with whom I worked closely, and I am thankful to never have had some of the managers others here have written about. I wish my ex-colleagues (fallen and standing) well. The company's senior leadership? Let's just say I wouldn't mind Ballmer leading his lemmings over a high and craggy cliff.
My father always said "When the accountants start running the business, it's time to be out of that business..."
How true this is. We now have SteveB and Kevin Turner running things basically into the ground. When we had someone at the top with both the ability to speak to business, set vision, generate ideas, grasp onto competitive ideas that was great.
Now, all we have is Ray Oz. who, I'm sorry what does he do again?
"Whar is really interesting though is that people were virtually divided into two groups. Those who have all 60 days for job search, they'll have badge and email during that time, corpnet access and RAS (pretty much everything that regular employee has) and those who are officially on payroll for 60 days, however they have to return the badge and their email alias will be terminated this Friday. All devs, half of test and some PMs are in the first group. Assignment of the test and PMs between these groups is mostly unexplainable."
This was the most frustrating part of the whole ordeal. Basically, losing corp access means, see you later we really couldn't care less about you.
2 classes of people in layoffs Those that got to keep their badges for 60 days and those that did not. Not sure what formula was used to decide what smells a lot like apartheid . As people I know in the latest round of cuts and in the "lower caste" category were people in the 70% bucket that successfully shipped products. Clearly not low performers. I don't get it. Anybody out there have more details on this?
I am one of the impacted employee and was shown door yesterday.
Personally - I think Steve Ballmer has a heart, and the severance package while not the best in industry, it will still be useful to get us through next few months.
But at the same time I dont think Steve is the right person to lead this company. I just cannot understand why apple and google can build next gen mobile platform from scratch while msft is still struggling with it's windows mobile. Why cant microsoft just start fresh (if mobile is strategically important)? Same for zune. Moreover, Steve Ballmer says he is ambitious - but how can someone be so ambitious to compete successfully in all the possible fields/products. That to me a recipie for failure down the road.
Every microsoftee should ask themselves this question - What is the vision of this company as a whole? If you cannot answer this question clearly, that is a failure of SLT. (When i asked this question to myself, the answer that came to my mind was - to compete and succeed in every possible field of software/devices(since slt considers all the fields strategically important)).
I must confess i have no love left for microsoft. Steve Ballmer and microsoft deserve each other. He is doing his level best to drive this co. slowly but steadily to irrelevance. I'm just a bit sad that a lot of people will be hit along the way. Anyone who thinks this was the last round, can dream on; the way i see it, the direction where ms is headed, there will be a lot more pink slips on that path.
Good luck to all the people still there.
My sense is that only about one-third of the comments here are based on any facts whatsoever.
It's amusing that sometimes the press takes these comments and runs with them.
More than 400 comments and I still have not seen credible information about which groups were affected.
This all seems so random.
I can handle the "cut the bottom 10% people". It's tough, but I understand.
I can handle the "cut the entire project that does not make sense", e.g. MSN Direct.
But then we see the messages "Our VP said we're not losing anyone".
How can mesh with statement #1? Are we to believe that, by wonderful chance, every single one of the employees on these "safe" teams are star performers? That nobody on these untouched teams is in the bottom 10%?
I just can't believe it. Good people are being cut elsewhere because they appear to be victims of a spineless VP who will not stand up to the big cheese.
OK, I get it, 5,000 people have to go, but come, on we're a scientific company supposedly full of very loigcal people. I'm sure we could have come up with a transparent formula or Excel function that said something along the lines: "(Any group with project future potential within the next 3 years of less than XXXX) OR (Any employee with an average rating of below YYYYY/Salary)" Then, using the goal seek function the parameters could be tweaked to get to exactly 5,000 and voila, problem solved in a transpartent way and we can all get along with our jobs.
I cringe to see messages like "nobody from exchange lost jobs" on the same page as "10 year superstar in our team got cut".
Is it really that some SVPs are standing up the Steve and saying "NO WAY, you're not anyone from my team, look elsewhere", and others are going "OK, carve me up" in a brown nosey way of currying favor with Steve (Hey, I can look good for him by offering to take it)?
Lisa/Steve, if you can't be transparent nobody is going to trust you.
When do these cuts drop off the headcount in headtrax? I am assuming the ones with badge access will stick around for 6 weeks but the ones marched out yesterday should drop off pretty soon. I wanted to do a before/after analysis per VP.
as for live search, seems time has already proved that we can't do this only by ourselvesI don't think search is particularly different than any other new initiatve MSFT has broken it's pick on repeatedly in the last decade. The problem isn't the subject, it's the management. MSFT is, from an organizational POV, incompetent.
Almost every attempt at developing a new product category bogs down in politics, indecision, and internally focused leadership. XBox is the only thing that's been a market success, and that's needed endless buckets of cash. Everything else has flopped.
So have the acquisitions, and for the same reason. And the cash cows, which MSFT obviously used to know how to do right, are stumbling too. Same reason.
Success at MSFT isn't about making something that customers want any more. It's become it's own cloistered world and patronage and politics.
That's the danger of "You own your own career." You end up with everybody focused on themselves instead of on the company.
Yawn... wake me up once you're in the black. So far you Xbox wizards are mooching off Windows and Office to the tune of ~8 billion.It seems like you have been sleeping for some time now.
Earnings report for Xbox looks pretty good for a long term investment. Other parts of the company are bleeding more money based on the latest earnings report.
http://www.microsoft.com/msft/earnings/FY09/earn_rel_q3_09.mspx#Balance
Microsoft people are so used to their monopolies that they have forgotten how the compete in the real world (and how long term investments work)
MS have fired lots of people for underperformance. Are these firing part of 5000?
They are firing the real workers and the chair warmers are still warming the chairs.
What does SBA stand for? Is it Small Business Accounting or some other team?
Taking a paycut is silly... anyone suggesting that is foolishing trying to save jobs that would be cut anyway and you'd be out 10% of your salary as well. It is a short term savings to the company without addressing the root problem so we'd be back here in a year or two talking about layoffs anyway.
This problem is centered around a company that added 40k employees in the last 5-6 years without 40k people worth of revenue generating businesses and low and behold, it caught up to us. I am shocked we only had the guts to cut 5000... there is at least 5000 more to go, maybe 10k.
I am from Microsoft Australia and I was made redundant today.
Pretty poor state of affairs with who and why individuals like myself were let go. No transparency or reason given whatsoever.
They should have started with the top layers of high cost overlapping roles and genuinely gotten rid of dead wood but as usual great people are going and dead wood is staying, many because of relationships with management.
To those people complaining about how little information there is - there is a deliberate strategy this time around to keep it as quiet as possible so managers are not sending out emails to say xyz person has been let go today. No email has yet gone out about me and so I don't really know how many and who else was let go either.
I think somebody else nailed the problems in another post - ask yourself, what is Microsoft's vision and if you do think there is one, can you articulate it? I asked myself this question and sadly I can't answer it.
Way too much federated control, no vision, no marketing prowess, poor customer centric strategy and very poor focus. Very sad days.....
For those of us are are departing, put this on your list of things to do after filing for Unemployment Benefits: Join the Microsoft Alumni Network at https://www.msanet.org/
You'll be glad you did this.
One bad quarter which is not even a loss and MSFT has fired 5% of it's employees...imagine what will happen when it will book a loss ;) only the top management will be sitting and pondering whom to fire next to satisfy the Anal-ysts of wall street.
Another casualty from Microsoft Advertising. Certainly not performance based as I always scored well. It's a shame as I was always a vocal advocate for the company on many fronts. Not quite sure I understand the strategy on this one, but I don't hold any ill will.
http://www.jasonyormark.com/2009/05/05/confessions-of-a-casualty-of-the-microsoft-layoffs/#comments
I'm in COSD.
I just got notified of a half hour meeting with my manager today (Wednesday) in a conference room on our floor.
It's 2pm PST...
It's been nice knowing you guys.
I've been with the company 7 years and I'm an IC Dev.
53 people got laid off in LCA yesterday. No word on MBS.
I was one of the 1400. I donated some money to my local elementary school before I left (last year). Microsoft matches donations like this. Or at least they did. When the school tried to cache the matching check from MS (around $500) it bounced.
Stay classy MS.
I am one of the people who were laid off yesterday. In my last 5 years, I received either 4, 4.5, or Exceeded only with 20% of contribution raking all the time. If you think your hard work is rewarded at MS, you have chosen a wrong employer.
"You even heaped blame for all of XBOX's problems on Ballmer, except that Ballmer wasn't CEO when the first XBOX was released?"
Actually he was. Your knowledge of MS history is on par with your business acumen.
SMSG here: at least 3 gone under my GM. I'm fine with the severance; after 10 years it's been time to go for a while. But that GM told us after the January layoffs that our group was done with layoffs. Guess not. :(
Group name: Atlas/Rapt/AdManager
Exec/VP alias:alexgo
# and type of roles:121 software development, IT Ops/Eng, client services
That represents about 40% of our FTEs getting laid off. That's on top of letting go of ~80 contractors back in Jan-March.
Simply........
This........
is.........
HELL...........
I'm still trying to figure out if the cuts are over (for this round) as of EOD Monday, or if they're continuing Tuesday and maybe Wednesday), too? I've seen posts here saying that layoffs will continue to be handed out Tuesday & Wednesday, but have seen nobody saying they've actually been on the receiving end (or have witnessed) layoffs today. Is it still rolling out, or was it finished on Monday? Can anyone confirm/deny? Thx.
140 cut across LATAM
@7:45 AM:
Things are not that clean, logical or fair for several reasons.
The "5,000 jobs" thing is an approximation -- in the end, the goal is to save a specific amount of money, not to reduce headcount by some perfectly precise, round number. And given how few people near the top ever seem to get cut during these exercises, those budgetary goals flow downward through several levels of management, getting divvied up according to the particular needs (and relative clout, and biases, and other intangibles) of each exec/manager they get handed down to along the way, before anyone even starts thinking about which specific people nearer the bottom of the pile are going to get cut.
If you can understand why some entire project groups get the ax (including people who were doing great work, but had the misfortune to be doing it on a project that didn't pan out), then you should be able to understand why there are "safe groups" using the exact same logic. Projects that are already producing the desired result, at or below the desired cost, generally get left alone unless/until all the easier options have been exhausted. (As do those, unfortunately, that happen to be the pet projects of some influential decision-maker -- Ballmer's obsession with funding Search at any cost is a large and obvious example, but it can happen at any level.)
It's only in the "in-between" groups that the decisions get any more nuanced than that, and start to involve balancing the merits of keeping Employee A around vs. Employee B -- and as those decisions are being made by separate sets of people inhabiting separate and far-flung silos, they're not likely to exhibit anything even approximating perfect logical consistency.
Layoffs like this generally aren't going to be narrowly targeted at the bottom 10%. In theory -- not always borne out in actual practice, god knows -- those people can be let go much more cheaply at other times, without all the severance pay and assorted sweeteners that accompany a mass layoff. (You'd like to reserve those things, insofar as you can, for the people you actually would have preferred to keep around under better economic circumstances.)
The idea of "let's grab all the high performers from this project that's being cut, and use them to replace all the low performers over in this other project that isn't" seems fair on paper, but mostly leads to disaster in practical reality. If a group is already working well and generating good results, then injecting a bunch of new people into it en masse and removing a bunch of others is guaranteed to disrupt it. A group doesn't have to be composed entirely of "star performers" in order to get its job done. (In fact, if part of its job is to function on a specific budget, then adding more high-priced superstars may be actively detrimental.)
It's not fair. Of course not. People are imperfect, and good things are seldom distributed fairly either.
(Now, having said all that: The actual execution of this process -- the poor and frequently condescending communication, choosing to drag it all out over months and who knows how much longer instead of just making the decisions and getting it over with -- ought to embarrass all concerned. People a year out of business school could have managed this better. "Tone deaf" doesn't even begin to describe it....)
Former COSD dev here. The word I'm getting from friends is that few or no devs are being cut, instead marketing people and other squishy roles. The real talent (dev, test, and technical PM) remains.
True?
"I have the conflict of conscience that bottom 10% are going to have a hard time finding new jobs, but I also recognize that from a business perspective, they'd be reasonable cuts to make."
You are assuming those that MS assert are the bottom 10% would be similarly viewed by other companies.
I was eased out as a low performer back in 2002 (since I wouldn't kowtow to whatever lame-brained idea my manager had) when the dev market was worse than now, found a job in a month, and have been in high demand ever since.
Jobs are also being cut in MS China. Detail is unknown.
@May 06 12:50 AM: Not really, no. He was too stressed himself to be able to appreciate it. But it made me feel a hell of a lot better. And when the meeting alarm on my phone (which I keep in my pocket) went off just as I entered the room and I said 'excuse me while I answer my pants', he scolded me for making an inappropriate comment in front of an HR person. Oh well.
Thanks for the follow up!
@10:03 May 5 -- So did he have a sense of humor?
I just got the meeting request from my manager. Rather than just accept, I suggested an alternate time--next December 23rd. Let's see if he has a sense of humor.Wishing you well.
Wednesday, May 06, 2009 12:50:00 AM
>One friend who was recently fired even told me how their manager came to the exit meeting armed with documentation of their poor quality work to further justify why the termination was taking place.
This was surely hurtful to your friend, and terminations are painful enough as it is. However, the manager was (wisely) trying to protect the company from a wrongful termination lawsuit. Employees often have a good case if employers haven't documented any performance problems. By bringing documentation to the meeting, the manager's message was "If you are considering legal action, please be advised that we do have our ducks in a row."
The statement "don't take it personally" has become so timeworn that people don't listen to it anymore...but they should. Don't personalize a business arrangment. You and your employer are simply two entities that have your own requirements, and ways of meeting the other entity's requirements. If that arrangement gets wobbly, you each look for a better fit. So oftan, this has nothing to do with how smart you are or how good your skills are.
10:52: regarding your statement, " I found that in office and windows which are 'old' groups, normally it will take 1.5 to 2 years to be promoted no matter whether you work hard or not, it's just like a formalized procedure, but in Live search, mobile or other new groups, they get promoted every year, is this fair?"
Ummmm.... how did you find this out? Cuz it's just not true. My husband works in mobile and they are certainly not promoted every year! Did you find this out through office gossip? Bathroom rumors? There are people on my husband's team who have not been promoted for years and years. There is nothing like a formal procedure to regularly promote people in Mobile. My husband does quite well but he is definitely not promoted every year. Maybe once every 2 years.
If you're just going to make stuff up, at least make it believable.
@10:53 p.m. wrote
In our groups, the new guys worked on the new features for this release, and some of the senior guys even don't have any new feature, why? shouldn't the senior guy work on the critical features?You *are* new, aren't you?
Developing new features is easier than maintaining existing code because you need less knowledge to do something useful.
The senior guys wrote the code that is being reused from the previous product, and have more experience with the system as a whole - so they are the best ones to do the maintenance (especially if it is a big complex product built from many interlocking source modules).
7.:32, you asked "I just cannot understand why apple and google can build next gen mobile platform from scratch while msft is still struggling with it's windows mobile."
I can tell you why. Meetings. Meeting on top of meetings. There are so many meetings that my Windows Mobile husband has to do the actual work at home because the constant meetings prevent him from doing much at work. Also, people keep changing things midstream or he's given conflicting orders because everyone wants to have their finger in the pie. There are just too many people giving orders and no one, solid central plan that they stick to. One higher up has a bright idea late in the game and the worker bees have to practically kill themselves working to make the changes. Then the higher up wonders why the product is not ready to ship.
Could you guys expand the acronyms? ANZ GTSC CTS - what are these!! Yes, I work for Microsoft but most acros make no sense to me.
Interested in knowing where all the weather got bad.
thanks
MSIT India got severly hit.
one thing that is NOT clear is who decides who to LO?
Apart from the group cuts, in the individual cuts someone fairly close to you must make that decision. If you're a lowly IC then the GM wouldn't know if you were any better or more "required" than the next guy - it would have to be your manager or your skip.
In which case they'd have known about this for a week or so.
Any ideas?
I feel for all the employees affected, cheer up, it's just a job and you will find better ventures in the future.
It is a common mistake of MSFT employees to be passionate about the company and think that the relationship is reciprocal, I know about it first hand since I spent there a decade working in Windows.
I left about two years ago after receiving a bad review, the reason? paraphrasing my manager: "you did a great job and I recommended exceeded, but since you had a bad review last year, upper management wants to see longer term improvements before giving you a better review".
Why did I get a limited the previous year? because I moved out of one team into another one month before the review cycle finished. even though my old manager begged me to stay in his group, when review time came the slapped me down. Yes I know I should have waited till the review cycle is completed, but I was really excited about the new career opportunity and used to think of MSFT as a "good" company that looked out for it's employees.
as soon as I got my bad review, I updated my resume and got a great job within the next three weeks, where I'm thriving and have a great career outlook.
i think 5 cuts in BGCOE India.
We are not sure if this is all or more to come
Microsoft Advertising in the UK is taking a big hit - 15% will go; approximately 45 people. A large number of people have been officially notified they are at risk, but the actual redundancies will not be announced until Wednesday 13th May.
Microsoft is only offering statutory redundancy pay, unless we sign a legal disclaimer to waive any rights we have to claiming unfair dismissal.
Kids, leave this board to grown ups. Screaming troll because you think someone is going to take you console away from you is something no one wants to have to listen to.
The Xbox fiasco is over 8 billion in the red over the 8 year long train wreck it has been on the market. Please take your own advice since you aren't even in the ballpark. You are claiming that Microsoft lost $266 on every 360 sold so far.
Now considering current consoles are most likely profitable, the hunderd of millions made off of software sales for XBOX and the huge cash flow from XBox Live, just how do you get your $8 billion figure. If you can't show that, then please take your own advice.
One quick way to pick folks to get laid off is to see who's not working as hard as they could be.
Here's an example - there's this dude whose initials are BVV who posts large essays to several popular non-technical internal DLs multiple times a day. Everyday. His thoughts are seemingly well researched and articulate, but I imagine he's spending anywhere between 90-180 minutes everyday just doing crap on non work DLs during work hours and engaging in useless debate. His primary job isn't to be doing this. It wastes his time and other peoples' time (I just peruse DLs once a day, in the evenings but folks like this flame others into debate - it's kinda entertaining ;)). Things like social DLs are an employee perk, but not at the cost of productivity. I'm suprised managers of such individuals aren't more cognisant of their actions. I'm sure there are more such examples. And this is just one instance of people not working for the company but basically mooching off the company.
Find such people who don't necessaily earn their keep and line 'em up.
The people on here wondering why SLT aren't being transparent, or why none of them can offer a simple "I'm sorry", aren't taking into account legal risk. Anything that has the slightest possibility of implying direct liability is going to be avoided.
Which is why everything about this is, and continues to be, hush-hush. It's the reason why Ballmer didn't give a direct apology to the woman who asked for one at the January town hall. It's the reason why there's less email overall, and less email specifically from most VPs and GMs.
For fun, one day, pretend that every single thing you said, emailed or IM'd to anyone, from the moment you got up to the moment you went to bed, was 100% public record. No matter the context, the people in the room, or the intention. Then imagine an undetermined number of lawyers, with infinite resources, cash and patience, willing and able at any time to parse any part of that to turn it into the basis for a lawsuit.
That's what the SLT, and many managers around the company, deal with everyday. Just like at most other companies.
I don't agree with the lack of details, or the way layoffs are being done, at all. But I completely understand why we haven't heard jack about it, and have given up on expecting any more info than we're getting now.
to the poster that wrote 'there is NOTHING SPECIAL about Microsoft'
There is something very special namely the number of partner level employees who rake in obscene pay with very questionable contributions. GMs who have worked in a profitable division, others who bring on family members without any computer experience to be interns then employees. Never seen that type of gravy train at another company.
VERY special.
I was cut on Tuesday. I can tell you that it had nothing to do with this 'lower 10%' rumor.
I was a top performer, upper 10% level on my last review, received Star Awards as well as other performance awards and recognition. I've also been with the company for years.
My peers liked me (with one or two exceptions), my clients really liked me and my peers across the org really liked me. I did an excellent job and worked extremely hard and long hours--just like others who were impacted.
There are people who have been with my former team for less than a year who did NOT get cut.
Politics definitely factored into these decisions. Microsoft is a political machine.
That's the only reason that makes any sense to me as to why I was selected over others on my team.
You cannot simply do your job and do it well, you have to also bring your political A-game in order to out manuever your peers for positioning. I am not a strong politic-o. I am a hard worker.
Microsoft now values political posturing over actual performance which is a major contributor to the company's decline, lack of innovation and loss of market share. This is all seperate from the current economic climate problems.
In spite of all this, I'd still go back tomorrow, if they called me.
Right now, I'm just trying to get past being pissed off at the fact that some of my less skilled, less tenured peers still have their jobs and I no longer have mine.
Lisa/Steve, if you can't be transparent nobody is going to trust you..
Uh? Lisa and Steve don't care.
One thing don't underatnd about MSIT-India cuts is why we pay to vendor's higher amount for same work and let go good employees.
MSFT layoffs this morning were described by executives as 'the eye of Sauron' searching the landscape for where to cut next.
We cannot expect that roving eye to move to a new target. Expect possible further loss in already cut groups.
Good to know at least where we stand. Welcome to Mordor.
moderator whats happening no posts ?
10% wage reduction is ridiculously stupid. Do you know what the expense per employee is? For your office, equipment, and sweet sweet benefits? In order for such a plan to work everyone would have to agree to 40% wage reduction. To save 10% layoff.
Wow, they even fired Steve Riley!!!
http://blogs.technet.com/steriley/archive/2009/05/06/good-bye-and-good-luck.aspx
Re: the 12:11pm post on MBS/Dynamics, perhaps you should clarify ERP vs. CRM. CRM is the only product that exhibited any growth last quarter, and has grown substantially YoY. It's also a very small/lean team with a puny budget, the result of being treated like an ugly step-child by an MBS "leadership" team that can't make tough calls about what the ERP strategy is going to be, so keeps all four ERP products alive.
no comments since morning...what's going on?
I was one of the 1400 laid off in January, and it came as a pretty big shock. My team was well above 100% of plan for the year, so we thought we'd be safe. Turns out that revenue isn't that important.
For those that got the axe this time, its critical to hit the ground running and treat the job search like a real job. You can take a vacation when you land the next job.
For those left, good luck. It's tough to see a good way forward for Microsoft given the incredibly ossified layers of management, but with tons of cash anything is possible. Maybe search will start making money!
the thread is dead?
I'm one of the 1400 and know nothing about rehiring. I'm still unemployed. It's impossible to justify Balmer's continued employment. The CEO's main responsibility to stockholders is to increase the price of the stock. My thousands (many) options expired last week under water. The price is lower than in 2000.
>> should cut an entire section of R&D as it becomes profitable because
Umm. It's been "becoming profitable" for years now, with no end in sight. I shudder to think about V.next.
No more comments??????? tired of writing ??
What about all the fancy buildings and employee shops and stuff being built. It seems like this building would cost a heap more than quality employees they laid off with no consideration as to performance.
""The console market is insanely competitive, you need to make investments to get the benefits down the road. Welcome to the real world outside Vista and Office where you actually need to compete."
Yawn... wake me up once you're in the black. So far you Xbox wizards are mooching off Windows and Office to the tune of ~8 billion."
It is sickening to think of what those 8 billion dollars could have used for - especially with the huge cost cutting and layoffs going on now.
Just when all the hard work that has been put into the Windows core to the point where even the fools on sites like Slashdot no longer make BSOD jokes because even the most diehard Microsoft haters know that those days are over, here comes E&D blowing billions and giving the entire world a brand new thing to mock, the RRoD.
Absolutely disgusting.
And you can't even mention the word 'Zune' without getting laughed at in any online forum.
E&D is like the guy in a rowboat that isn't just not paddling, he's actually rowing backwards.
If an entire division can blow over eight billion dollars, ship products that are known to be defective by design, and its products be the target on constant ridicule, and seriously damage the image of the company, there is little chance the rest of the actually competent employees making money for the company and shipping quality products put in the same high level of effort and work ethic.
For all the people that keep suggesting paycuts . . . you are already getting one in the form of no increase this year.
If you feel strongly about taking home even less money I encourage you to go tell your management chain you're making too much money.
Hi, Microsoft folks,
After the first round of layoff, I conducted a Layoff Satisfaction Survey (read result at http://www.geekmba360.com/?p=551).
If you're impacted by the current round of layoff, please fill out the layoff satisfaction survey at http://www.geekmba360.com/?p=523 -- I'll summarize your feedback and publisher the summary. Make your voice heard!
what a joke this is. check out this new facebook group
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Microsoft-Global-Careers/60207401645
Ok, I have just learnt that steriley was fired. If you know this guy, then you will probably wonder like me what is the criteria used for firing people. Doesnt seem to be a very good one; we are loosing tons of talent that will most than sure land on a competitor.
This makes me really sad...
Welp I was layed off today.
Reasons were due to budget.
I'm so glad they built the commons. Because I sure as hell wouldn't want to have MS spend any money on keeping staff when execs could spend vaulable time at a godam mini mall.
Somone needs to throw a steaming bag of shit at whoever speaks at the next town meeting.
Anonymous @ 7:45am observed about some groups culling the bottom 10% (and others) and some groups experiencing no cuts,
Good people are being cut elsewhere because they appear to be victims of a spineless VP who will not stand up to the big cheese.That is an interesting observation. Thanks for stepping outside the box.
I can understand why Windows would be left untouched until RTM (although it really wasn't, some minor parts of Windows were indeed cut in round 1). Keeping all the Exchange people around and tossing consultants generating billable hours doesn't make quite as much sense. From experience, there is some fat in the Exchange org.
Does anyone know if any execs/managers were given targets for cuts, and stood up to the honchos and said no? (I'd like to work in one of THOSE groups next time, I think.)
I got laid off yesterday. Did not want to comment yesterday because of the bitterness this has left towards the company and management... but wtf, it has not ended at all.
8 months of 12 hrs a day + quite few weekends @ MSFT => 1 week severance... Lisa - don't expect a "thank you" from me; shove the severance up ur tight shorts.
I had left behind a company that cared to pursue my dream company- but ended up on a titanic. Not that it matters; Now "I am a Mac!" and this post is from a new mac, not that it makes any difference to the blood sucking walmart boy KT and Balmer.
Financially I am well off and I am sure I'll get on my feet again... but I wish SOB Balmer loses something that he treasures and can never walk again- my heart felt prayers!
"I was a PC and now I am Mac"
Is it really that some SVPs are standing up the Steve and saying "NO WAY, you're not anyone from my team, look elsewhere", and others are going "OK, carve me up" in a brown nosey way of currying favor with Steve (Hey, I can look good for him by offering to take it)?No, probably not. It's more likely that some VPs cut more deeply the first time around (or had a more defensible budget/plan in the first place) so they were already at or near where they need to be.
Are jobs being moved to China?
I see jobs being cut in US/France and India.But not in China.. why ??
any thoughts ?PRC got ~200 cuts.
Another "well known" person that got cut was Jim Jubak of MSN Money.
Im sure he and his legions of fans will find some other website to make home. I think they touted him as the most read Finacial Writer on the web? I don't understand how getting rid of one of your property's biggest assets makes good business sense.
I hope SteveB chokes to death on his own spit during the MGX. The last one I attended was a joke to see the amount of money they spend on this. I had too many friends let go off the first time around and yesterday they chopped my head too. KT's order to his directs - "Do not see them as people and do not think about their families... they are just an id that we will eliminate today- good or bad, that is the way we will run our business"
Lisa - for Pete's sake, don't say anyone thanked you. You can suck on SteveB's yolk when Kevin holds it up for you - Steve would surely thank you for that.
any layoffs in experimentation platform ?
OK, so Steve Riley was let go. What the F*CK!?! This guy was one of the most knowledgeable security architects I've ever worked with.
This is proof that the criteria being used to determine who gets laid off must be some sort of random insanity. sigh...
@5:06, sorry bud but it sounds like we let the right person go.
"Not that it matters; Now "I am a Mac!" and this post is from a new mac"
Good riddance -- if you harbor that much vinegar after a whopping 8 months tenure, you need a reality check.
Little or none in MBS this time it seems, at least in Puget Sound. No idea about Fargo, Copenhagen, etc.
This, I completely agree w/. It's no longer about getting your job done well but also about kissing behinds. Forget about constructive feedback. You will be fingered as a trouble child. Politics are everywhere and us nerds are no good at them.
I was cut on Tuesday. I can tell you that it had nothing to do with this 'lower 10%' rumor.
I was a top performer, upper 10% level on my last review, received Star Awards as well as other performance awards and recognition. I've also been with the company for years.
My peers liked me (with one or two exceptions), my clients really liked me and my peers across the org really liked me. I did an excellent job and worked extremely hard and long hours--just like others who were impacted.
There are people who have been with my former team for less than a year who did NOT get cut.
Politics definitely factored into these decisions. Microsoft is a political machine.
That's the only reason that makes any sense to me as to why I was selected over others on my team.
You cannot simply do your job and do it well, you have to also bring your political A-game in order to out manuever your peers for positioning. I am not a strong politic-o. I am a hard worker.
Microsoft now values political posturing over actual performance which is a major contributor to the company's decline, lack of innovation and loss of market share. This is all seperate from the current economic climate problems.
In spite of all this, I'd still go back tomorrow, if they called me.
Right now, I'm just trying to get past being pissed off at the fact that some of my less skilled, less tenured peers still have their jobs and I no longer have mine.
i suggest ppl to look for places in live search, this is one generous place, be it promo or bonuses. career growth is also quick, if you have management ambition. work load is very comfortable, given much is not expected out of here, you can get away with doing anything.
http://blogs.technet.com/steriley/archive/2009/05/06/good-bye-and-good-luck.aspx.
Steve Riley never came to work.
Yes, I have known him for years.
His primary role was to write books. He is not the first one that Microsoft has shown the door.
Wow, just heared that Microsoft pulled the plog of Response Point. Clearly this was killed by the larger and more bloated OCS team, which is a few years behind the smaller PBX. The OCS team is 10 times bigger than the Response Point team but I guess Craig Mundie is ten times weaker than Elop. This is why Mundie can't provide the aircover to fence off Elop. If BillG had been here, the outcome would have been different. Bill would probably have asked XD to take over Gurdeep's bloated org. What a sad story...
You know what they are doing? They are rehiring back the top performers so these guys can come back and have the next batch of people get fired. If you do this in phases, you can get 60-80% of your entire workforce kicked out and consolidate 20% of your top performers into the few teams you have left.
Only applies to ICs. They are not firing managers which they should do as well.
I am worried about my position. My lead used to have 7 guys of which 1 he fired because they didn't agree (the guy was good). The 6 left are all good and we all do well with him. Who's next??
Products to cut:
Live Search and the Ad products, half the Research team, CRM, Dynamics, half of Office (who needs any more releases out of Office?), half of Windows (Vista didn't sell, Windows7 will NOT sell, forget the rest), Microsoft games, Microsoft Web Expression (and the suite), half of Forefront, LiveMeeting, EHS, half of Exchange. Can't wait for the next TechEd to find out who else is wasting time and resources.
Here's some cost-cutting ideas:
* Declare Search a loss and move on
* Have every team sign up for an annual release. No release: you are fired.
* Fire half of the management. Fire all the L62 leads, L63/L64 managers, L65 PUMs/ General Managers.
* Make everyone take a 3-4% paycut
* Shut down The Commons
* Make employees pay 50% of Pro Club fees
* Let everyone pay a copay in their medical benefit
* Shut down the Shuttles and the Commuter
* Say goodbye to the Town halls, picnic, the non-essential conferences, ship parties
Tuesday, May 05, 2009 10:43:00 AM
MS could have offered voluntary redundancy from a limited set of employees, it would at least allow them to feel had some control.
And it would leave those who remain in better spirts, knowing MSFT at least wants to try.
I also really don't understand why MS didn't start with voluntary redundancies. I have seen a lot of companies in the UK do this. Better to let those who want to go, go.
Is Zune, MSN and Live Search really worth all the jobs being lost? Good people and talent being squandered and released? Families being shattered and disrupted? All to satiate Ballmer's raging ego, thinking that he can and will eventually bring Google down, et al.?
The Madness of King Steve! You should be rioting in the hallways. As a 13+ year veteran of MSFT who fortunately left 3+ years ago, I'm absolutely appalled at the level to which this company is falling. I feel like my career there was with some other company, certainly not this joke of an IT firm - once a leader and now a laughingstock.
God help you who've been laid off, I truly feel for you. There is a better future ahead for you, I'm certain.
>>What about all the fancy buildings and employee shops and stuff being built.
Construction is not like buying a latte at the cafeteria and getting it three minutes later, kiddo. All that was bought and paid for years before the economy went south.
>>It is sickening to think of what those 8 billion dollars could have used for
Not really. It would just have been squandered on some other money losing idea.
I see a lot of posts saying "DBM". What is the DBM career center?
hi, a 1400 here, still unemployed. market sucks in seattle at the moment. not even getting calls now. was in a group-wide removal.
I can tell you that the decision for who got the internal search vs. who got to turn in their badge was made at least 4 levels above me, if not higher. I say this because I am pretty close to everyone up to 3 levels above and have talked with them frequently since. 4th level above me got along great, but no followup discussions since the ax fell.
This is probably good for MS, as others have stated. everyone was cut from all cross sections of perf/age/ethnicity/etc. so no lawsuits or proof of poor performance or whatnot. unfortunately that means nothing changes for the better inside the company. you still have the same percentage makeup of old, underperforming, language blocked workers you always did.
yea it makes no sense. it makes no sense on purpose.
I have no opinion any more, but I wish there was more hope that this improved things inside MS instead of just lowered staffing costs.
I can also confirm the stupid "higher ups want to see longer exceeded performance before giving you the benefits" spiel. It has been used to prevent my ladder acceleration (need to outperform for at least 2 years now), and to prevent granting exceededs/4.0s to me a few times.
I'm glad I'm out.
Am I the only one who can't go to the new campus mall and pub in good conscience anymore? I know it was planned and paid for long before the layoffs were put together, and that it comes from different budgets, and you can't un-build something like that. But still. It seems like such a slap in the face to the people being randomly let go.
something I don't understand. XBOX360 is quite good and IS the console standard for gaming market (most people treat WII as a "toy", but XBOX360 is the "game machine"). Zune, yes it's bad and there are some stupid "feature" such as no east-asia language support (where the only area that Google/Apple doesn't have any advantage). However, for mp3 player alone, zune is better than the products from creative/sony/sandisk/etc.----ok, if you think "oh, mp3 player? an iPod?", you should be fired for sure.
"I know the Forefront manager you're talking about. He's been there since V2 started and hasn't shipped a single product since he joined Microsoft some 6 years ago. All he does is big talk and politics and places his career interests in front of Microsoft's. It's a shame he is still around. He is there for stealing our IP and then wants to go back to his home country with all the designs and specs and start his own company. Adding features to Forefront my arse - they have been fixing bugs and design issues since the last 2 years.
That guy has gotten so many people fired and made so many enemies. First name starts with a K. Last name with an S. Thank God I don't work for him but I would personally go thank Lisa and Harish if they had the courage to fire him."
Dude, this brings back some memories of this guy. I used to work under him till last year and he is the worst manager i ever had. He made me quit the team but I have no regrets. Life outside Microsoft and away from this as*** has been rivetting. BTW who is this Harish. Never seen him when I was there
The HR people think the layoffs will only lower morale for a week or two. I say it has more of a permanent affect on the people left behind. The modern business practice of frequent mass layoffs needs to be stopped. Don't hire too many people in the first place. If you have a slow year, don't lay people off, relax, let them idle for a while, who knows what they might invent in the mean time. In the long run you will have a company worth fighting for.
Admiral Hyman G. Rickover who successfully implemented the US Navy nuclear submarine program with no reactor accidents (compared to several by the Russians) said this:
"Complex jobs cannot be accomplished effectively with transients. Therefore, a manager must make the work challenging and rewarding so that his people will remain with the organization for many years. This allows it to benefit fully from their knowledge, experience, and corporate memory."
...
"When doing a job - any job - one must feel that he owns it, and act as though he will remain in that job forever. He must look after his work just as conscientiously as though it were his own business and his own money. If he feels he is only a temporary custodian, or that the job is just a stepping stone to a higher position, his actions will not take into account the long-term interests of the organization. His lack of commitment to the present job will be perceived by those who work for him, and they, likewise, will tend not to care. Too many spend their entire working lives looking for the next job. When one feels he owns his present job and acts that way, he need have no concern about his next job."
>OK, so Steve Riley was let go. What the F*CK!?! This guy was one of the most knowledgeable security architects I've ever worked with.
Another key person rumored leaving MS is Xuedong Huang, the leader of Response Point that was cut in this round of layoff.
Guys Looks Number from Redmond was 1200.
Check the WARN Notice https://fortress.wa.gov/esd/uia/warn/public/searchwarn.aspx
"Fire all the L62 leads, L63/L64 managers, L65 PUMs/ General Managers.I'm not sure if you're claiming to work for MS, but those levels don't correspond to those titles...
What is DMB?
https://www.dbmcareerservices.com/
Locally, they usually send people to their center in Bellvue. MS is giving them so much business that they set up a satellite office in Totem Lake.
Learn from the master. Do it to them before they do it to you.
Did Microsoft lie about top exec's departure?
By Owen Thomas, 4:32 PM on Mon Feb 18 2008
Amazon.com sent Valentine an employment agreement, dated and apparently signed by Valentine on June 23, 2006. The deal called for him to get a $1.7 million signing bonus, a $150,000 salary, another $500,000 bonus, and 400,000 shares of Amazon.com (now worth almost $30 million). The contract called for him to start on September 11.
H. Brian Valentine - Senior Vice President, Ecommerce PlatformCompensation for 2008
Salary $157,500.00
Bonus $333,333.00
Total Compensation $3,877,118.00
For what it is worth, projects like the Commons save far less money by cutting than headcount. Most people have no idea what it really costs MS to have 1 FTE headcount... fixed assests are FAR cheaper so go enjoy the Spitfire guilt free and drink to your layed off hommies...
I for one dont know anyone who was layed off that didnt at least deserve some attention... even some of these well known names posted here werent really contributing to MS bottom line... they were basically free lancers in their field who just happened to carry a blue badge, they'll be back on campus as a vendor for far less overall costs and we'll get pretty much the same value from them as we have always received.
I have a different take on at-least this lay-off; I know of 3 people who were let go yesterday, all 3 of them were below average performers, and I know this b/c 2 of them used to report to me, and the 3rd one was in MS for 7 years was just vesting and warming chair.
I know most of folks here will not like this comment, but seems to me there is some rationale behind the cuts....
You gotta realize that the last round of layoffs arent just layoffs but part of a major frigging reorg (at least in the field) that just hasent been announced. Yet. But will be before FY10, and that announcement will bring the final substatial round of layoffs, predominately in line-mgmt, both in Redmond and WW.
Organisation-wise, were going back to basics, folks. You dont need C&O, BMO and Segments - all with individual marketing folks. You dont need multiple salesgroups to run the runrate business vs VL/pipeline business. You dont need three partnergroups in one sub. Saratoga and on top, last years creation of C&O, are potentially the biggest strategic dissasters caused by MS SLT and its finally being dealt with. Yay. So do the math.
And oh, there is a reason why Search is taking such a big hit headcount wise in the field. Go figure. Its not the success of Kumo, I am sure.
It's no longer about getting your job done well but also about kissing behinds.It hasn't been about "getting the job done" in a very long time.
I spent 10+ years at Microsoft as a tester, got decent reviews and a few promos along the way, but was never a superstar, despite producing measurable results. Not being very politically astute I could never quite figure it out. I saw people who were doing less than I was get more recognition.
One incident in particular opened my eyes. There was a very complex feature added to our product. I was going to be OOF for a while at that time so I didn't get to test it. A coworker of mine took ownership of the testing effort (assisted by others). When I came back, the feature was tested and that coworker was lavished with praise for the "leadership qualities" he demonstrated in getting the work done. I'm pretty sure he got a gold star bonus and a promo. Fast forward a few months. That colleague moves on to another team, and my manager decides that I am the most qualified person to take ownership of the feature so I take my first close look at those tests ... and they're not quite what I expected. There are several hundreds of them yet they seem to exercise only basic scenarios. I try something a little more complicated. Bug! I try something else. Another bug! Not only had the really interesting tests never been implemented (or even thought of) but the feature was actually improperly designed and implemented. Had the testing been done thoroughly it would've yielded dozens of bugs, which I eventually found after writing those missing tests myself. Did I get a gold star bonus or a promo? No I didn't. I didn't show "leadership qualities", I just spent hours alone in my office doing what others should have done in the first place.
Three years after leaving MS, I think I might have figured it out. Reviews at Microsoft focus on intangibles like "influence" and "leadership", not on measurable achievements that align with the company-wide goal of shipping and selling quality software. If you point out that you found more bugs or wrote better code than everybody else, you'll be told that this is just fulfilling the basic requirements of your job. In order to get recognized you have to spend as much time as possible doing things that contribute nothing to the bottom line. And everybody trying to "lead" and "influence" everybody else leads to a flurry of useless activities and initiatives which often contradict one another, because everybody wants something they can put on their review to get that next promo.
If like me you're not particularly gifted when it comes to playing such games, don't beat yourself up. There's nothing wrong with you. There are plenty of results oriented companies out there. I found one and am doing quite well.
to the Live search-haters out there, what you said is simply not ture. Since the roll-out of 30% cashback last year, our search volumen has increased more than 5%, and taking 0.3% share away from google just in Q1.
Our next release, as you should already be using will rock the world and deliver the ultimatum to google!
Re: BVV
Hey, cut the guy some slack! FWIW, he was in an 'experimental' group that was recently 'redeployed' and 'reorganized'. Maybe he can do some real work in his new, real, team.
APAC region hit bad. Some top performers let go. Its madness how they are doing this.
What next? PIP's all around during the upcoming review? Cheaper way to get rid of people rather than paying out for the years of service.
Flying_Dutchman said...
Is Zune, MSN and Live Search really worth all the jobs being lost? Good people and talent being squandered and released? Families being shattered and disrupted? All to satiate Ballmer's raging ego, thinking that he can and will eventually bring Google down, et al.?
Right! Obviously, no humans work for Zune and Search, and they don't have families that will be disrupted if those divisions are eliminated. I can understand a lot of people here are under stress, but a lot of you seem to display a schizophrenic attitude towards these layoffs. On one hand you say: "I feel very sorry for all those who are laid off", and on the other hand you say "everyone would be having a party if only Microsoft were to jettison Search and Zune".
Now I don't know about Zune, but I am someone who joined LiveSearch very recently, and sure am glad they are hiring. A lot fo you don't seem to understand that the future lies in online services, networking, and generally, on the world wide web (leading to what we call pervasive computing). Without having a solid search platform, no company (not even MS) can dream of competing in that area. If we drop Search now, we'll have to restart something like Search again a few years from now. The only other option is to leave Google as a worldwide monopoly in that area; EVERYONE will be dependent on Google (it'll put Microsoft's own monopoly days to shame), which will be able to demand whatever it wants. The personal computer market (Windows, Office, etc) will always be owned by Microsoft, but the revenue will continuously diminish; these are not the 90s anymore.
There are a lot of good people in LiveSearch now, both from outside and from within, and most of us joined recently. The division has been in rescue mode for the past 3-4 years, and a product that was virtually worthless back in 2004 is now comparable in quality to Google (if MS had been serious about search earlier, we would have a market share comparable to, or even larger than Google).
Of course, we all know that we need to produce results, and believe me, if we don't, we are prepared to be axed en masse within a couple of years. But cutting off huge number of recent entrants who have done a heckuva job of resurrecting a product without giving them a proper chance to prove themselves would be a bigger injustice than the layoffs that are currently happening.
If Microsoft is firing why not start with Steve as far as anyone remotely connected with IT Industry can see he has been a disaster, worse so far I have not heard of any manager, VP level person who has been fired, c'mon they cant be that good or MSFT would not be knee deep in shit. Fire 1000 managers at least.
LCA hit hard. Over 50 gone. Common element seems to be: (1) lower performers; (2) hard to get along with; (3) culturally not a good fit; and\or (4) no network outside their immediate group. Seems like management eliminated heads and not positions. Anyway, still a sad day. Some good people were let go. If managment did its job and held itself accountable this would not have happened.
45 people cut from EPX - DevDiv
I was part of the layoffs this past week. I got a tip from someone on these boards and confirmed it with HR - I'm still technically an MS employee until the WARN period ends, at which point I get my severance. BUT, if I were to find employment with another company before the WARN period ends, it's assumed I have voluntarily resigned from MS and forfeit my severance. This is due to co-employment laws. Does anyone know the exact wording for these laws, surely there is some sort of loophole (contractor work?). I really don't want to sit on my hands and hope I can find a job in a few months time...
I challenge any laid off top performers for a startup.
For the ones still hanging, there are plenty of important problems to be solved. Redmond still has legendary names in research, smart and hard working engineers.
Leave the politics to the politicians.
Yep, I got laid off Tuesday after more than a 11 yrs of service (last 7+yrs as FTE). Had a couple star reviews, one bad one, and many good ones. Basically, your 70% bucket performer all-around. I am proud to have shipped Windows ME, XP, Server 2003 and all of their service packs (except XPSP3), plus multiple MSN and some online services releases.
In all, more of a decade of busting my chops through the years working long hours, weekends, etc. Oh wait! it's almost 2:30 AM and I am still busting my chops 'cuz I need\want to finish transitioning my items before I hand off my card key on Friday. Today has been one of many 14-hour days; and I didn't get much sleep last night (Tues night), guess why?
Still, I am only doing this out of dedication to my team and honoring the commitment I made to the company. After all, I am still getting paid for a couple more days.
Yet, in a blink of an eye, with no regard to my contributions yesterday or tomorrow, to who I am, or what my family and I have chosen to sacrifice, I am given th boot. Sure, with a nice package; but you know what, I don't want it; I prefer to stay as I deserve to. I earned it, I put my trust in the company, I gave it my all...
Hmmm, I finally "see" there is really no commitment or respect for employees no matter how you put it; only to a handful of shareholders... Forget the lagging economy, a bigger problem is at large folks.
Unsure now whether to try come back - I love the people (some) and the work. There are not many options out there either and I have a family to feed... I am already regrouping and moving on. It had been a good ride thus far...
My thoughts are with those affected and with those who remain as well.
"I have a different take on at-least this lay-off; I know of 3 people who were let go yesterday, all 3 of them were below average performers, and I know this b/c 2 of them used to report to me, and the 3rd one was in MS for 7 years was just vesting and warming chair.
I know most of folks here will not like this comment, but seems to me there is some rationale behind the cuts...."
To put it succinctly.. Fuck off with your anecdote. Being one of the ones let go, with the worst review being 70% and a recent gold star... Sure, glad to hear MS is finally killing off some dead wood. Sadly, that is not all they are killing off.
I have offers in other groups which I am having to dance around to not lose severance. When you get ass raped by the company you have killed yourself at for 12 years... Chances are, one would not jump at a chance to stay there. I am not one to fall into the beaten wife syndrome.
Just glad my life expenses are in a state where I have the time to play the field.
I really feel like I have been backstabbed.
GFS cuts 10% of its workforce. Here is a short paragraph from Debra's weekly:
We now have results from the MS Poll, and I want to update you on what’s happening with that data and when you’ll hear more. Our overall WHI (Workgroup Health Index) number stayed flat at 75. That’s not bad given the tough times we’re in, but as we look at the detailed poll results we definitely see areas for improvement. Our Leadership Excellence Index fell from 74% to 58%, that was a big change, and this will be a major area of focus for me. My management team and I will be reviewing the results more deeply over the next few weeks and will be putting together action plans that I plan to announce in the June timeframe. If you’d like more information about the poll, here’s the link to the section on HRweb.
Now, I do not know which "leaders" got cut in those 10%, but Debra's explanation of the cut is to improve efficiency and cut redundant roles. Now, who took us there? You all know who should get fired here.
...there is little chance the rest of the actually competent employees making money for the company and shipping quality products put in the same high level of effort and work ethic.You got your facts wrong, MS products are not known for quality (Vista? Office? Windows Mobile? Live Search?)
And even if the E&D division was gone the money would not be going to those "competent" employees, it will keep going to the partners.
Learn a little bit about how the business world works, how competition and investments works, get out of your monopoly shell before picking on the Xbox division which has positioned itself as one of the leaders in that sector.
In APAC, we are seeing quite a number being laid off, oddly enough, most are veterans with tenures > 10 years... wonder why is that?
This is plain sick. While doozies like KT teak compensation schemes to feed his ever fattening paycheck, good solid people are being asked to go.
This is just wrong.
The layoffs will continue until morale improves.
If you are in a money making group your job is safe even if your job performance is less than stellar. If you are in a money losing group then even if your job performance is excellent your job is at risk.
From Microsoft's business point of view this makes no sense. Why let so many excellent people go while keeping some poor performers? If a group is losing money you ought to fire its management, not the engineers.
From an employee's point of view, this policy discourages risk taking. Do not join risky new projects: Microsoft may be a relatively stable company but your new position may be no more stable than one at a startup company.
I too was shown door in this round.
While i agree with the rationale to layoff people (to make business profitable), why does it fall only on the bottom-most employees. Ballmer and his yes-men seem to be unscathed.
As a shareholder i am pissed. Look at any other co. in US which is run by a professional CEO. If he screws up - he will get boot. Citi (Prince) and Merrill Lynch CEOs (O'Neil) getting the boot is a prime example. What is so holy about Ballmer, who seems to have a free reign here?
I am stuck with the msft shares i bought in espp (boy - i missed the chance to sell them in 30s). I want to sell (since i have no faith in Ballmer or other shareholders (to give Ballmer the boot)), but will probably wait till the market comes back a bit. Never again in my life will i buy msft shares, as long as Ballmer and his toadies are running the show.
........in APAC, we are seeing quite a number being laid off, oddly enough, most are veterans with tenures > 10 years... wonder why is that?......
Interesting observation and very true. I know of 4 people let go who had long tenure (>10).
Was some type of "promotion velocity" metric used? Perhaps these folks have been stuck at the same level too long.
Perhaps they were relics of an older Microsoft culture where getting things done/getting results was more important than making the scorecard green or sucking-up to a manager/GM/VP.
Imagine the institutional knowledge that walks away with these people but the company is okay with that since our big bets are S+S, Search and Mobility.
Its a sad day....
KT, Thank you for all that you do
To the live search team posters (11:27 and 12:19) - I am not against live search.
But as a shareholder, i dont see why products like live search, zune and esp. Windows mobile are given a free reign to screw up. If you think live search is so cool and it is working as a single coherent team - let's do a simple test. Go to google.com and live.com. Keep clicking the various links on the top of the search page (Images, videos, maps etc etc). Google give same nice, uncluttered look and feel on each of those sub-sections. On the other hand live will change colors/dresses and even personality, when some of those links are clicked. Who designed the UI there? Isnt that a proof of political infighting between various sub-teams inside search organization? And to add salt to the wounds - in my team everyone uses google to find kb articles inside msdn. It is a shame really.
I dont particularly agree with your rationale that google will become a monoply and therefore we need to be in this field. This kind of fear mongering is not a good motivation to build stuff. You should build stuff only if you believe that you have some competitive advantage or some new feature as compared to your competitor. Apple and Oracle arent getting into Search at all - and still they're kicking butt.
As for the comment that live search has gained .5% marketshare - first of all, you should not believe the numbers that vps (Satya?) sends in his email. Those numbers are fudged generally or come from biased sources. Secondly, have you ever wondered how much is cashback costing us (when we're firing people in other departments to save cost) and what happens to your marketshare when you stop the cashback. If you want a clue, go to sleakdeals.net forums - each and every post there encourages the "deal seeker" to just use live search as a staging link, so as to get more in the deal. I suspect, the marketshare would instantly drop by 1-2% if cashback program is stopped and get onto a steady decline thereafter. From this e.g. Search would appear like a terminally ill patient, who needs a very expensive life support as long as it lives.
I am not against search as a product, but you need to tell me what competitive advantage or extra feature would microsoft search give people, for me to believe in live search story. If the only rationale you can give me is that if we dont get into search, google will become a monoply, i'd say can the entire live search product and fire everyone in live search.
To 12:19am...
Yeah, of course I realize that there are hard workers and families affected in Zune, MSN and Live Search.
But you missed the point: these businesses SUCK and are SUCKING untold funds away from other areas of the company, making Microsoft try to compensate in other areas by cutting back. If you're proud to work on a piece of shit like Live Search, then more power to you - I'm glad your career path is settled.
But this is about Microsoft prioritizing what it can do best, not what it can do period. In true MS fashion as the consummate "Johnny come lately" in everything it does (and I mean everything), the company has lost its way. For those here who've raised the issue: can you recite the MS vision? Do you know where the company is going? I think that's an incredibly pertinent question to ask yourself. If the answer is to "squash the competition" or "catch up with Google", then this company is doomed.
People bitch about why Microsoft can't be like Apple and Google. Well it's because Microsoft's leadership sucks, pure and simple (with all due respect to BillG, who smartly has moved on). The company has never been known to be visionary in ANYTHING it does, so why start now? Well, if it wants to be around another 10 years, it had better start acting like an innovative, skilled player on the field and not a fat, sulking lazy-ass ex-player who's too concerned about their bank accounts.
Trust me, as a former employee, I know how smart most MS employees are - there's a LOT of genuine brilliance in the company. How sad that upper management continues to impede and squash its own human capital with outdated, overwrought practices and principles.
Good luck...
I was in the 1/22 layoffs, and was required to stay on the "administrative leave" payroll until 3/22. Accepting any job offer required MY terminating employment and MY giving up 20-30K severance and MY giving up 1 year paid COBRA.
I thought, I need to get in a new job asap and having a new job will mean income and insurance and everything will be fine. So I took a contracting job before 3/22.
And WTF does Microsoft do 4 weeks later? Lay me off again.
Now sitting here with no contact for new contract reqs, no insurance, and the clock ticking till unemployment runs out.
Please, do what it takes to receive your severance and paid COBRA because you will need that.
"For laptops, a lot of wireless Internet providers (e.g Verizon) don't have Linux drivers for their hardware. I got a long list of instructions from the manufacturer of how to hack a driver and recompile the kernel to use my wireless card. Not very plug-and-play.
The Linux laptop they sell at Walmart doesn't offer much. For $150 more, you can get a Toshiba laptop running Windows with much better hardware.
Maybe a large company might make the jump to Linux someday to save money but your average desktop user doesn't have a lot of motivation to do so right now."
You appear to be pretty out of touch. My wife just bought a $200 Dell netbook running Ubuntu and is incredibly happy with it. It does everything she wants without having to spend the extra $100 for WinXP.
When buying a Windows OS increases the cost of your computer by 50% you have a real problem.
Workplace RightsTermination of Employment (PDF)
Washington LawHelpU.S. Equal Employment Opportunity CommisionState vs. Federal “White-collar” OvertimeSalary Basis for White Collar Workers (ES.A.9.1) (PDF)
Are employers required to pay additional compensation to exempt employees for overtime hours worked?
No. The minimum wage and overtime laws do not require overtime pay or compensatory time to exempt employees. However, employees and employers may negotiate agreements for additional pay or compensatory time or other compensation in addition to the salary.Employment and the Washington State Law Against DiscriminationWhat are prohibited employment practices?
Under the law, if it is because of a person’s race, creed, color, national origin, sex, marital status, age (40+), disability, retaliation, sexual orientation/gender identity, honorably discharged veteran or military status, or use of a trained dog guide or service animal by a person with a disabilityWorker Adjustment and Retraining Notification Act (WARN)Layoff notices - Worker Adjustment and Retraining Notification (WARN)Company Location Layoff Start Date # of Workers Closure Layoff Type of Layoff Received Date
Microsoft Redmond 7/4/2009 1200 Layoff Permanent 5/5/2009
Microsoft Seattle 6/30/2009 2 Layoff Permanent 4/1/2009
Microsoft Redmond 3/23/2009 872 Layoff Permanent 1/23/2009
>>Right now, I'm just trying
>>to get past being pissed off
>>at the fact that some of my
>>less skilled, less tenured
>>peers still have their jobs
>>and I no longer have mine.
I was a 10-year Microsoftie whose position was "eliminated" in January. Four others in my group also were let go. Of the four, I had been at MSFT the least amount of time.
I think us older employees cost a hell of a lot more than newer employees who come in at a lower salary range.
Here's how big Corporate RIFs go: Peons go first.
The reason you don't see more managers and higher level folks getting laid off is because they keep those idiots to do the dirty work first. This is just the first round. The heavy duty management cutting comes next.
Sadly, Microsoft is now officially MBI(Microsoft Becomes IBM) - when middle management bloats and acronym usage multiplies.
Here is a quote from someone important (guess who):
----
"For me, Microsoft is so last century. They are not the problem," Varney reportedly said
----
When the justice dept. treats you benignly, you have become the old lion in the petting zoo...
folks MS is loosing money, the game is not over !! It has 100k employees to feed aruond 50 Billion goes towards this, has around 25 B in cash and revenues around 60B. Its bad ... they grew fast in the last 10 years from 30k employees. Check the numbers. Next Mgmt will go !!!
Microsoft will never be the leader it was in the '80s and '90s if it remains in its current form. The OS products are bloated as are the Office products. You've failed at MSN and you're late to market w/Zune. Someone else on this blog mentioned your insignificant Virtualization presence. Oracle will always be a more 'adult' database.Not being the first to market is intentional on Microsoft's part. The saying you'll hear from executives is "pioneers get the arrows".
A company innovates and creates a successful new market, Microsoft learns from their success and, using their deep pockets, creates a new product to compete with the current market leader. They can take their time because they have the money to keep trying until they get it right, do a deal, or, as you said, use an existing product as leverage.
I remember a meeting where Jim Allchin was making fun of the number of steps to complete a task using a feature in one of Microsoft's products. He had written them out on a piece of paper and read the long list of steps to the audience. As he kept reading and reading and reading, more and more people laughed. It is a useful exercise when you're trying to make a product easier to use.
Microsoft forgot that lesson when they created Vista (e.g not having enough device drivers so it just works when the install is finished). They'll do better with Windows 7.
On the desktop, Linux has not made those lists of steps short enough yet in enough cases. After all, Linux is free. Linux developers had an opportunity when people were dissatisfied with Vista but most people chose not to install Linux on their desktop.
Innovation is exciting but copying and refining over time pays off in the long run.
So what of the previous 1400-related theories that people with high financial burden were cut? Any combination of compensation (present or deferred), benefits, etc... could easily add up to 500K-1M per year for long-timers, top performers, etc...
If SLT treats everyone as replaceable, then get rid of the expensive folks regardless of whether they are top performers or not.
"It is sickening to think of what those 8 billion dollars could have used for - especially with the huge cost cutting and layoffs going on now."
The reported loss is closer to $4-5 billion. It was higher, but there were a few quarters of profit before reverting back to the mean in Q3. Actual losses might be $8 billion (e.g. add in unallocated R&D and corporate costs, subtract Mac BU and retail Office profits), but it's not verifable and therefore shouldn't be quoted as fact. However, the real cost is much higher than just the accumulated losses. There's the overall investment, which stands at more than $20 billion lifetime to date. Then you have the significant portion of SLT time and focus that has gone into supporting this business instead of focusing on the core, or other new opportunities that might have proved profitable.
Before I read any posts, I was not sympathetic. I’m a consultant/contractor who has been disrespected by blue badges one too many times.
I didn’t realize how many people got too comfortable at MS and don’t know what it’s like in the outside world. I can’t believe how many FTEs are in shock... working with contractors should have prepared you well. I once wanted a blue badge so bad that I worked 60 hours a week and billed 40 hours, but only to be let go (with 2 days to 1 week notice). Yes, it hurts. But one guy in this blog said it best, “once I got over the shock and awe, I was able to move on.” This was a blessing in disguise for me. After a couple of layoffs, I grew stronger and more focused. Nobody could hurt me that way again. Now, I truly sympathize. But I do wish that you have the strength to rebuild yourself, and make yourself stronger and better than before.
Today, I’m still an occasional consultant/contractor, a real-estate developer, and love my work-life balance. Not getting the dev full-time job was one of the best things that happened to me. Things didn’t turn out so bad :).
And you can't even mention the word 'Zune' without getting laughed at in any online forum.
What's funny is how much of your image and self-worth is derived from an online forum.
The leaders in the Xbox and Games Division should all be fired. Talk about conflict of interest and bad decision making during harsh economic times.
http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=23533
It is such a shame since the Xbox team is in a good position for the future but we keep insisting that acquiring shady companies is the right call for the future.
To Anonymous Poster @ Thursday, May 07, 2009 5:24:00 AM:
In reference to GFS...
The fish always rots from the head...
Reading the hundreads of comments, it is evident that morale is destroyed. There are coments regarding lack of leadership. Comments regarding lack of vision. Poor products. Loss of market share.
A campaign for a "New Strategy" was launched. It was indicated that the focus was to secure insight from MSFT employees.
Over the past several months a "New Strategy" has been edited and revised by MSFT employees.
The "New Strategy" addresses leadership, R&D improvement, insulating the company from the loss in OS and emerging trends, Online Service and Microsoft Mobile.
The "New Strategy" was edited and revised by actual MSFT employees. We suggest reviewing the "New Strategy". Its focus is improving the company and resolving company dilemmas.
The "New Strategy" can be accessed at http://thecrandreagoupr.blogspot.com
@ weds 7:34 PM who said this:
"KT's order to his directs - "Do not see them as people and do not think about their families... they are just an id that we will eliminate today- good or bad, that is the way we will run our business" "
Sound like WalMart to anyone?
I am absolutely surprised and shocked to see so many talented people are being laid off who were hired through so many gruelling rounds of interviews from MS while lots of vendors are still on jobs. How does it help in cost cutting? Talk about the morale of FTES who are still continuing. Its so pathetic. One can not concentrate on work without thinking "Is it over yet or not?"
looks like the most senior (ones with most years in MS) got hit...what a way to leave the company you've worked for a fair bit of your life... :(
Amidst the layoffs, Microsoft just aquired an online game company founded in 2007, Big Park in Vancouver BC. One of its founders is Don Mattrick, who was hired by MS in August 2007 as Senior VP of Interactive Entertainment under Robbie Bach. Why are we aquiring game companies? Would we have done this if Mr. Mattrick was not connected to Big Park? Something smells bad in this deal: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30626639/
@2:48 AM
So you got laid off and already have other offers from MS groups itself, but you are trying to find a way to not lose severance?
Wow, you must be seem like a lucky bastard! Double dipping in a big way..and still feel bad about getting back-stabbed and victimized, and but still ready to come back to MS again.
If you are worth your salt, find something else out, but you really don't the backbone to do anything other than whine...Typical Softie! you deserve what you got.
After the shocking lay-offs... ooops... i mean optimization of resources we were counting the dead bodies and there were cuts which were not only irrational but completely insane...
One of the guys axed from BGE was a senior PM a great resource and human being... everyone on the floor respected the person and if this can happen to him trust good lord no one is safe..!!!
The whole affair hurts more when we look on the other side of aisle... there are 6 PMs sitting around and no cuts there (although their boss was at receiving end)... a brief look at their profile will provide more insight that why it is hurting the other side...
Mr. Senior Sucker - Research suggest that this guy was hired out of "no" need in first place... only attribute seems to be deep voice which he uses compensate his lack of skills. Survives by doing what his name suggest... with his boss fired he must be feeling lost but going by his record he will be quick to please the Baldie (yes, the one who got the shit job of executing the "optimization"). Got major chunk of work this year probably to justify his hiring and offcourse favoritism. Had the support of his, now fired, boss but done nothing major in last one year to credit him as senior PM!
Mr. "The" Sucker - x-Wipro and, as expected, bigger sucker. This joker has good entertainment value but apparently no capabilities to justify his job@MS. On the floor people are aware of his butt-licking and passing the buck attitude. In 3 years he has successfully avoided any hard work and accountabilty... major task is to go around massaging Baldie and his boss (x-wipro too)... to his creadit are insignificant CR projects and he display them shamelessly as piece of art... seems primarily hired to run the monthly celebration and PR activities for management!
Mr. Fatso - This one moved from dev mgr and tries too hard to project himself as comedian... people smile out of courtesy... as PM (not sure but must be senior PM) he has no credibility... he is WFH specialist and like Senior Sucker uses his deep voice to hide his lack of PM or rather any skills... what is he doing? seems managing some outsourced internal tools... and make loud noice of insiginificant daily/weekly calls with vendors to prove his worth... if he is really senior PM then he has got the best deal for doing con-calls and WFH!
Mr Viagra - Imagine as kid you were accidentally injected with viagra instead of some vaccine... overflowing with energy and seems to do every damn thing on the planet earth... this talking machine churns humour every milliseconds and seems to know every other guy in MS IT India... hardly seen working but strangely has the highest credibility as PM on the floor and in Redmond... some serious research in their world suggest that he is best of the lot... grapewine suggest Baldie has personal interest in screwing his career and has been very actively scripting downfall of the only credible PM resource he has at his disposal... why? seems he took "open and honest" very seriously and fired some point blank shot at his manager... nevertheless he is the only person BGE guys would hate to lose considering his positive energy and high spirits... assuming he is talented.. his days are numbered!
Mr. Kiddo - the least experienced but given the most strategic project (they believe that... in reality it is rewriting a petty VB tool!)... is in his own world... harmless creature who seems to get into immature fights with team members every now and then...
Mr. Nobody - This one was accidental discovery out of research... no clue who is he and what is he doing... even people in their side get surprised to know that there is 6th PM too!!
Looking closely the above profiles one does have pity on the direction MS is going. A great resource gone at the expense of above people. Of the above 6 people top 3 were easily dispensable but they will remain in the system and rot MS culture!!
Somebody should be held accountable for these goof-ups. Hopefully the good resources will be sucked back.
Another thing I don't understand at Microsoft is, when they hire you, the experience that you have gathered outside the company doesnt count. What kind of BS is that? I know it is not relevant to the layoff, but it creates upside-down hierarchies inside the company.
My manager was a Dev Lead simply because he has been at Microsoft for 10 years. Not a very smart fella at all, just that he knew ABOUT technologies (name throwing) and had contacts at Microsoft. I dont like to play kiss-butt with someone who doesn't know his stuff, proudly says he has never written code, and to top it off, he is my senior simply because he has been at Microsoft longer. All Dev and Test Leads should know how to write very good code.
I liked Qualcomm so much better. Catch even the top-level Director out there (who is primarily involved in business decisions), and they can tell you everything about the smallest of details in CDMA all the way down to the very basics in Digital communication.
I have run into more than my share of Managers and Leads and senior PMs simply because they went to business school. Is this a technology company?
45 people cut from EPX - DevDivI am surprised they have not been cut any deeper! Having worked in the past with some of the functional teams within that org, especially their Site Managers, I can easily say they are unneeded, incompetent and create worthless jump pages that do nothing but block our customers from getting the content they need created by product groups. Talk about where the next layoff target should be! Voila'
Get over it! It's only a job! This is a capitalist country, profit drives everything, human beings are just tools for this greedy system. Not sure why people are so shocked?
Mediocrity and cowardness reigns at Microsoft by now and this week was proof of that. It took us a few years to get to this point, thanks to the incompetency of several VPs, GMs and Director types who fought for and allowed 'bloat' in their organizations simply because 'bigger is better' and they could get away with making, and receiving ridiculous Asks ($$ and HC) with each new fiscal year. I have seen it play out like clockwork for several years. And so this week, instead of punishing the layer of incompetent high-level burocrats who led us to be fat, slow and competing against each other for products and solutions (we have become really good at that), Microsoft has taken the step to punish the hard working folks, who were solid and dedicated, the "Kims" of the company. I am sorry for my friends who got laid off -- interesting trivia they were all over 50...sounds like ageism??
I am a "casualty" of last Tuesday. The official explanation that was given to me is that "my role" (and I had the same Std Title as most of my team) was being eliminated, so I needed to go.
When I talked to my manager (Director) off the record, he told me that he was as surprised as I was (he had learned last week), that the decision came from the GM above him and was "by the book" on the recommendation given by HR: go after roles, not people. Most of the other groups took the chance and did what managers in MS don't do (or are not used to do): manage the low performers out. My GM decided otherwise.
I was as afraid that it could happen to me, since my team lost power and relevance when our previous director left 2 months ago, but was betting on my past performance reviews (Exceeded), my recent promotion (less than 1 year), the feedback from my customers and all those awards we acumulate over the years.
I am sad, but most of all I feel betrayed. The message that was sent to my team (around 40 people) on Tuesday was: it does not matter how good you are. If we decide your "role" is gone, you're gone.
The reported losses are about 6.8 billion for the Xbox if you add up the quarterly reports going back to 2002.
Plus the 1.1 billion for the RRoD repairs.
Absolutely insane that profitable stuff in EDD along with the huge amount of revenue from online fees and the losses have been still been that gigantic.
Hopefully EDD is continuing to move away from the Xbox in its current form and more towards a very cheap to manufacture Wii type device. At least when it fails it won't be such a massive drag on the profitable parts of the company.
The console market is completely cycle based. These rationalizations about how things are 'now profitable' make absolutely no sense. Every five years or so the reset switch is hit and you have to invest huge amounts of cash and resources starting over again. Ideally you are in the red for a year or so and then start making profit for the rest of the gen.
The fact that with such cheap hardware that the Xbox guys still are losing money 3.5 years into the current life of the product make it absolutely clear that multimedia hardware is something that isn't an area the company should be trying to compete in.
Eight years is more than time to demonstrate you can compete in a market segment. Time to move on. There are much more important things for the company to focus on.
I have never been a Microsoft employee.
However I worked on the first 3rd party product pruchased by MS. I have contracted at MS many, many times via a vendor and a- since the 80's.
Technical decisions at MS used to be made by technical people. Namely developers with lots of input from test. Today management/PM make ALL the decisions. However, they are not accountable for their decisions. They move around constantly and are never around when the SHTF. Particularly at upper management. Job security at MS is all about kissing PM ass. Pathetic.
as i said earlier entire live search team is a scam. if you don't believe talk with the dev managers there, they are not after google or anything, competing with google is last thing in their agenda, most will talk about how he was able to successfully grow his team 300% in 6 months, how quickly ppl got promoted, etc etc. when asked what is next, they dont have much of a clue, no new ideas other than blindly copying what others have already done. this is my experience from an informational i had few months back.
Does anyone know the exact wording for these laws, surely there is some sort of loophole (contractor work?). I really don't want to sit on my hands and hope I can find a job in a few months time...A lot of investors didn't sell their highly priced stocks in 1999-2000 because of "tax reasons." The stock market took care of their tax problem. Investors should rarely take taxes into consideration when considering stock sale.
Similarly, laid off workers shouldn't worry about trying to time job search to trivial legal loopholes. If having a fulfilling job is important to you, and if you are unfortunately let go from your current job, immediately start looking for one and take the first one you like. Opportunities in this economy don't last forever.
Your career is a lifetime pursuit (until you retire). Severance pay and the timing surrounding it is a temporary situation and you would probably rather have income from a secure job than from a severance paycheck.
You said:
"Fire all the L62 leads, L63/L64 managers, L65 PUMs/ General Managers.I'm not sure if you're claiming to work for MS, but those levels don't correspond to those titles...
What I meant was: keep (or judge) the L65+ managers, L63+ leads, L66+ PUMs - fire the junior management. Like Peter Spiro did to trim Sql Server (fired all the middle management leads).
Sql Server is another useless bloated org. A lot of useful people and a lot of useless ones. I hate to talk to those guys - those are the snottiest people in Microsoft.
You are not alone. I survived but I am not going to go to any morale event, ship party ever again. Wish more of us did that. I told my manager we should save money rather than sending me to this conference. I feel for those that got laid off. Good luck guys. When I got laid off from my previous job, it was hell for a week but then I picked up all the loose ends, educated myself on new technology and got hired by Microsoft.
There's someone better out there to hire you. This is a sinking ship - you guys are leaving at the right time.
Mr. 10:30am puts some links in his post to try to stir things up.
Most of you, who regularly did highly technical work or decisionmaking on the job, can ignore 10:30am and skip the rest of this post too. It doesn't apply to you.
If you worked in a clerical role, and there are some non-technical PM roles that would qualify, it's possible that MS misclassified you as exempt from overtime pay. Same for support engineers who followed a specific, detailed problem resolution manual when doing product support.
If you were Redmond based, this isn't California, where they are more generous to those in the IT trade, so if that's not you, probably fuggedabaddit. The frequent use of advanced skills on the job like coding and design are a deal-killer, which is why most don't qualify. But infrequent use of those skills is not necessarily a deal-killer. Lawyers who performed standard document reviews, product support staff who used problem resolution flowcharts, people with advanced degrees, have all been found to be misclassified as exempt.
If you were a non-technical PM or support staff and not usually a decision-maker or a creative source in your role, it could prove beneficial to consult someone with experience in that area. Report everything that your employer may have said or done with you that could be relavent. Err on the side of providing too much information instead of less. IANAL so I won't say more.
Otherwise, move on, you'd be wasting time on it. The world is full of much more personally rewarding ways to use your new found free time.
Flying_Dutchman said...
To 12:19am...
Yeah, of course I realize that there are hard workers and families affected in Zune, MSN and Live Search.
But you missed the point: these businesses SUCK and are SUCKING untold funds away from other areas of the company, making Microsoft try to compensate in other areas by cutting back. If you're proud to work on a piece of shit like Live Search, then more power to you - I'm glad your career path is settled.
But this is about Microsoft prioritizing what it can do best, not what it can do period. In true MS fashion as the consummate "Johnny come lately" in everything it does (and I mean everything), the company has lost its way. For those here who've raised the issue: can you recite the MS vision? Do you know where the company is going? I think that's an incredibly pertinent question to ask yourself. If the answer is to "squash the competition" or "catch up with Google", then this company is doomed.
People bitch about why Microsoft can't be like Apple and Google. Well it's because Microsoft's leadership sucks, pure and simple (with all due respect to BillG, who smartly has moved on). The company has never been known to be visionary in ANYTHING it does, so why start now? Well, if it wants to be around another 10 years, it had better start acting like an innovative, skilled player on the field and not a fat, sulking lazy-ass ex-player who's too concerned about their bank accounts.
I don't claim that LiveSearch is the next best thing since sliced bread. What I said in an earlier mail that it's a vastly improved product from what it was back in, say, 2005. I also mentioned that it needed to show some results soon, else everyone here is ready to face the axe. Now I've been here only a handful of months, and it seems the frenetic hiring in Search started quite recently. If you all wanted to complain about MS throwing money down the drain (aka Search in your mind), you should have done so before this happened. Obviously people here have been hired for a reason and deserve to get a chance. It makes no sense whatsoever to hire and fire people before they have had a chance to make a positive impact on what you all think was (or even is) a crap product.
Talking about innovation, how much more innovation can you get when you are only thinking about Windows and Office on large size (desktops, laptops, etc) computers? I would love to see some innovation coming out of that area, but it seems like all the innovative juice has already been squeezed out of that. What would a "more innovative" Office on a desktop look like? Seems to me the future in these groups lies more in maintenance than in innovation. How do you innovate without going into the small devices market, and the web services market?
Beating Google should not be the driving motivation? Perhaps! But making a great search service should be, no? And if we succeed in making a better search product, won't we beat Google? Do you all not understand, or believe in, the market? And let me reiterate, if we don't make a good product, we deserve to be junked. But if MS does not succeed in search, its status will diminish, I can guarantee that. For niche products like Windows and Office, that may not be a disaster. A generation of employees will keep their cushy jobs.
Anyway, that was my 2c. No more on this thread from me, given that we've digressed from the main focus of Mini's original post. Maybe Mini could start a real debate dedicated to Search sometime soon.
terminated this week... has anyone been able to negotiate a better deal? or heard of a lawyer that has?
thanks!
Suggest we find a local and inexpensive location for the MS1400 and our new comrades to get together for mutual support. Anyone have suggestions on where to meet?
Who wants to be at MS anyway! I quit last year after a bad experience. I repeated asked for more work because I had the capacity to take it on. Mgr said no because apparently I was only doing it to get a promo or grubbing or something along that line. I said wtf i have nothing to do and im asking to take on more.
Then I found out he was angling for a promotion that year and if I had exceeded I would have been promoted thus eating away at his precious budget.
I quit and moved to San Francisco and happy as a clam.
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned this before...
Many descriptions of layoff-ees include recent promotions, gold star awards, etc.
If you want to be cynical, these people are costing the company a lot of money. If the goal is to reduce costs, of course they will be laid off. Whether or not that makes long-term sense is a different issue. But if you're car shopping on a budget, you'll buy the Hyundai instead of the Lexus, even though the Lexus is a better car...
Indeed it's a sad period.. I left MSFT a month ago for a change of role & focus. It was a tough decision.. but in hindsight, I may have been one of the cuts.. who knows.. I'be been in touch with my ex-colleagues, who at best are shell-shocked about their fate.. And interestingly enough, everyone who has been communicated to has a slightly different answer to the question "What is the criteria for selection?"
Apparently, the term "resetting the business" was used, and they stressed it was not a cost cutting measure.. BS if you asked me...
I guess they can't call it cost-cutting, so that they can still justify having a glorified party for MGX. Where I am now, there are cost saving measure being put in place, which a majority has to do with T&E.. i.e. no more travels unless absolutely necessary, no more overseas training/conferences, scaling back of awards, etc. For me, I wonder how many jobs MSFT can save by making MGX a webinar event (aguably, you can actually get the whole MSFT in attendance, instead of the chosen few, every year). I still get loads of messages from my friends in Corp who are travelling all over the place... where's the logic?!?
"So you got laid off and already have other offers from MS groups itself, but you are trying to find a way to not lose severance?
Wow, you must be seem like a lucky bastard! Double dipping in a big way..and still feel bad about getting back-stabbed and victimized, and but still ready to come back to MS again.
If you are worth your salt, find something else out, but you really don't the backbone to do anything other than whine...Typical Softie! you deserve what you got."
Eh?
Let me get this straight... Just as I am hitting my stride and after 10 years at MS, I get canned.
I can't be pissed about it?
I sure in hell won't be back, so no worries there. I don't want to lose severance because (shock) I actually need to provide for my family. The severance package stipulates that if I am offered a position at MS, and I reject it, I will lose my severance. So I have to be careful not being offered anything formally. I am sure as hell not going to return to busting ass for a company that dropped me to the curb.
I *lived* Micrsoft. I *loved* Microsoft. I missed holidays, birthdays.. Even my 10th wedding anniversary while overseas. But that didn't matter to me.. I loved what I did, and the company I did it for. Hell, my family was a "rah rah" crew. I finally started getting at least some kudos...
And got kicked to the curb. If you don't expect some vitriol, let me know what you are smoking.
Brad Graziadio got rehired.
what is wrong with this company
Wow... a lot of bashing on Zune.
Personally, I love my Zune. The radio is cool for the Pro-Club. The wifi support is fun on the ST545. (It's interesting to see what others are listening too.)And...
Zune social is a genius idea. It just needs to be more fully realized. The Zune Card doesn't seem to sync well, and isn't as plugiable as I'd like. Plus all of Zune Social seems to have perf/scale problems.
(non-Zune MSFTie)
Intresting numbers ....
$237 million for severance for 3,400 laid-off employees, "all of whom are expected to leave the Company by June 30, 2010."
I know its a good time to be sacked, but MS did take care of its people.. Not like few other companies ...
I heard in APAC , few of the old timers got 2 Years Salary as Pacakage... I would say not bad , taking some time off and spending time with the family ...and not have to worry about freaking buggy software fixes
Cut deep, cut fast and cut a f***** lot more. This company is run by mafia. 2 people were let go from my segment on Wednesday. One was role redundancy (great performer though, but I agree, a completely BS role)and the 2nd was performance related (but much needed role). That person shud have known it coming, hardly moved his butt. Mixed Emotions for him and yes, politics played it's part as well.
Lost talent We can say whatever about the layoffs on Tuesday. But one undeniable fact is that some great talent was let go. These were people who had worked many years at the company, helped ship some great products and given their all during that time. That high powered talent and dedication is not easy to replace. These were people for whom it wasn't about the money, or promotions, or titles, but about doing something really cool and maybe changing the world as a result. Hopefully those folks can now go make other companies great. Help build the next generation Microsoft. I salute what they've helped achieve so far, and wish them the very best.
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