Microsoft Layoffs - Cinco de Fire-O
Well, if ever you wanted to console yourself with some tequila, today might be your day. Phase Two of the big Microsoft 2009 layoff engages today.
- Microsoft continues layoff plan, eliminates thousands more jobs - TechFlash Seattle's Technology News Source
- Steve Ballmer's internal memo on Microsoft's latest round of layoffs - TechFlash Seattle's Technology News Source
- Microsoft Starts The Layoff Machine Again Steve Ballmer’s Memo To The Troops Peter Kafka MediaMemo AllThingsD
Is this it? Will there be more? From Mr. Ballmer's email:
With this announcement, we are mostly but not all done with the planned 5,000 job eliminations by June 2010.
Strangely, Ms. Brummel have asked folks to avoid emailing each other today because the last layoff's email volume was so distracting. Gee, sorry to be a bother while people are trying to figure out what the hell is going on. Let's see... how to avoid that... I know, tell people what the hell is going on and which people / groups are affected. Oy.
Please, if affected by today's events, note which group you're in and any messaging about things going forward (as appropriate and proper).
(And please, Ms. Brummel, if you talk to the troops about this, don't share how people affected by the layoff are thanking you - that just seems creepy.)
Dropping moderation for today, but as usual: be responsible. I will delete comments later that are off-topic, along with any other comments that react to the deleted comments. If in doubt, go visit the CRF parallel thread: http://minimsftcrf.blogspot.com/2009/05/comment-stream-microsoft-layoffs-cinco.html
1,545 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 601 – 800 of 1545 Newer› Newest»"..... proudly says he has never written code, ... All Dev and Test Leads should know how to write very good code." This exactly describes WinMo.There are leads, who are get promoted, when they have never ever designed or developed anything or even have good product ideas.They are also inefficient & mostly ineffective about Engineering/Planning. Imagine a recently promoted Senior who boasts about having been an IC for < 1 year, has never been through a single complete release despite having been here for nearly 8 years. When I heard this lead was promoted a few weeks back, I re-read Mini's post on what it takes to be a Senior. I was dismayed, disappointed and de-moralized to see someone who met abysmal amount of that criteria being made a Senior. It amazes me on how little they contribute and yet get to judge on what the ICs contributed the last year. Worst of all, the attitudes and direction they bring to the table are detrimental to the product.I was once talking to this lead who was advising that "Oh! your feature is a given, what matters are a bunch of extra visibility projects." Look where WM7 is today, so what features are they offering to compete with RIM/Apple and by when?.It is shocking to see the lack of engineering focus for some features. The corresponding (overwhelmed) feature crews know why.
For those who have been laid off or who have left Microsoft on your own (heck, even current employees can join) don’t forget about the MSA (Microsoft Alumni Association) http://www.msanet.org
It costs $130 a year but you get access to the company store and a $600 spend limit on software – well worth the price of membership.
They have other benefits like some medical/dental plans and some networking opportunities.
I got the cut.. from GFS. August would have been my 10 year mark.
My follow-up with my skip-level manager indicated that he was sad to let me go, but that was the way of things and he hoped I would find something else in the company (he is even helping, a little). That would seem to indicate that not only do I think I'm an asset to the company, but others who know me do as well. Unfortunetly, I now have to go through the grief process and get back out there to sell myself again. Such a pain in the arse. I also hate thinking about all the time and millions of dollars all this has taken.. the meetings by managers, the HR resources, the outplacement resources, the benefit packages, the mental distractions to those cut and those kept.... what is the opportunity cost of all that compared to shipping better things more quickly... getting ahead of the game instead of responding to competitors. SAD Sad sad.
I have gotten tired of reading about all of the Gold Star recipients & top performers so felt it was necessary to tell my story too.
I was one of the 1400 laid off in January. I never recieved a gold star and rarely exceeded in my stack rankings. Once I moved out of Redmond and into a field sales role, I found that I really didn't have to work a lot - and I didn't.
Over time, I learned how to work the system so that people were doing my job and my participation was always a higher-level contribution (rarely did I roll up my sleeves and do the job that I was paid to do). Towards the end, I found that an afternoon nap was the best part of my work day. Then I could wake up, check some email and really call it a day.
Was I surprised when I was handed my pink slip in January? Absolutely not. As a matter of fact, as much as I gave to the company as a PM years before, I got it all back - with dividends - in a field sales job. Account management is the best and worst job at Microsoft. Those who are talented have the potential to live a rest & vest job for a long time but those people who don't know how to manage the BS and politics are doomed to work their asses off and never get anywhere.
When I left in January, I had no regrets because my time was up and it was the catalyst that I needed to leave a company that I didn't, and still don't, love.
So all of you people who are bitching about being let go after working so hard, just know that there are a lot of us who didn't do a goddamn thing for this company and leeched off the sweat of others for years. Unfortauntely, there are more and more people in the field who seem to be adopting this attitude and that sure sucks for the people who choose to stick around and think that the company will afford you a break because you're loyal.
I lost faith in the company and the leadership (at all levels of management including the local leadership) and took the last several months as an opportunity to just slide by while I remodeled our kitchen, pursued some continuing education and get involved in the life of my kids again. I'm going to miss the benefits, the expense reimbursements and the other perks but I am not going to miss the politics, the backstabbing and placating a bunch of mental deficients who aren't qualified to carry my piss bucket. And just as a final thought - I wasn't mediocre because I sucked at my job, I was mediocre because I didn't give a shit anymore.
Enjoy those gold stars, exceeded rankings, ship-it awards and stock awards for now because on the outside none of it matters.
Good riddance to Microsoft!
Each of these layoffs has made me sick to my stomach. I think about the families and individuals affected. Good luck to all of you - unfortunately the writing has been on the wall for 7 or 8 years.
The up or out mentality, and lack of stock growth, has led to a bunch of very talented IC's becoming incompetant middle and upper managers. There's this cyclical rotation of unqualified leadership swirling around MS - you lead a group into the ground, overpromise and underdeliver, get held "accountable" (or pass the buck), and then use your network of friends to get another management job and screw up another group. Repeat... Repeat... There's a lockstep progression of these managerial morons cycling from one group to the next.
Unfortunately, these morons have chosen to aggrandize themselves through unfettered empire building and political peddling instead of hard work and technical focus (the parking lots aren't full on the weekends anymore). In the good old days of NT, a small number of us were all doubled and tripled up in building 26, slept very little, and yet we managed to pull together W2000, XP, and W2003 with a small number of people.
Now when I come to campus, I see all these folks wandering around, and I wonder just what in the hell are they doing? The increase in headcount has not led to an increase in quality or quantity of products being shipped.
The fat has needed to be trimmed for a loooong time. Its very sad to see the good folks go (instead of the bottom feeders / slackers). Hopefully these legitimately talented rockstars can find new opportunities quickly, ideally replacing a slacker somewhere.
Have hope, though - the second best thing that ever happened to me in 1994 was getting a job at Microsoft (despite being a self taught programmer w/ a blue collar background). The BEST thing that happened to me was leaving in 2004 and taking a year off, then working on cutting edge software outside of Microsoft.
I was victim of round two, too. Even though being on the receiving end isn't fun (AT ALL) I want to say three things:
1) I cannot believe how locked up info on this is. Each manager I have spoken to in my group only had knowledge of the one or two people they had to let go. No-one seems to have a list. This is to preserve the privacy of people who have to leave and, although I personally would love to have as many people know I am on the market as possible so they can hook me into their networks, I get where MS is coming from on this, and it's a professional way to go.
2) I am trying to keep my sense of humor. We are not alone, and here is proof... http://ittybittycrazy.blogspot.com/2009/05/diary-of-redundant-day-1.html That's the first of what looks like daily posts.
3) Does anyone remember Recession Camp from 2000/1 down in the Bay Area? Google it. I'm thinking of setting one up in Seattle. Stay tuned.
The reported losses are about 6.8 billion for the Xbox if you add up the quarterly reports going back to 2002.
Plus the 1.1 billion for the RRoD repairs.That simply isn't true. Data for the XBox is completely broken out. You are taking the whole Enterment and Devices division and assing the losses to the XBox. Further more the $1.1 Billion write off is include in the $1.892 Billion loss in 2007.
So learn a little bit about Microsoft. There is a lot more than the XBox in Robbie's division.
To the MS Live search employee@ 11:42.
OK - the best defense you have for feeding live search is that it sucks less as compared to live search of 2005. Is that the best you've got? Wow.
Do you know how it sounds? How about this - me - to my manager - "hey I know i am performing inferior to all my colleagues, but still i suck less than all my previous years. So give me a promotion and a raise." You can put a less sucky lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig (with less sucky looking lips).
You dont have to worry about being given a chance to show results. As long as Ballmer is there, you'll get plenty. Even if you screw up again and again, he will keep feeding the live search piggy - because he does not know when to let go of things.
Reason I am so pessimistic is that the whole culture in MS works counter to innovation. (as per another post) The live search dev manager bragging about how his team increased or how many promotions his team-members got - that is called "empire-building". This does not go well with innovatino. The strict hierarchical structure that is omni-present in MS, and the culture of short term rewards and no accountability, will ensure that there is no innovation and live search will continue to lag.
As a shareholder, i want search to succeed. But as a matter of practicality, i dont know how that is possible, given that there is no change in leadership or envrionment/mentality.
SteveB was BillG's dorm buddy and that's the only reason he's CEO of this company. Scam is running from the top. If MS decides to do a random check of managers who hired mid-level managers, drilling down will reveal stuff like college friends / ex-company colleagues / same nationality etc.
Every group / org can easily do away with 50% of current staff. It's a terrible waste of money and shows lack of vision on part of SLT. I am waiting to round off my experience to 3 yrs (few months away now) and I am outta here.
Reg. BVV : Everyone has noticed it. The joke going around town is that when he isn't posting on the DAC/Indian alias, it's not because he's busy working but he's busy posting on the Real Estate alias! He's entertaining. I'd love to meet him some day, I only sit 2 buildings away from him.
Eh?
Let me get this straight... Just as I am hitting my stride and after 10 years at MS, I get canned.
I can't be pissed about it?
I sure in hell won't be back, so no worries there. I don't want to lose severance because (shock) I actually need to provide for my family. The severance package stipulates that if I am offered a position at MS, and I reject it, I will lose my severance. So I have to be careful not being offered anything formally. I am sure as hell not going to return to busting ass for a company that dropped me to the curb.
I *lived* Micrsoft. I *loved* Microsoft. I missed holidays, birthdays.. Even my 10th wedding anniversary while overseas. But that didn't matter to me.. I loved what I did, and the company I did it for. Hell, my family was a "rah rah" crew. I finally started getting at least some kudos...
And got kicked to the curb. If you don't expect some vitriol, let me know what you are smoking.
Well, and what did you get in return? Let's make some assumptions here, safes ones:
1. 10 years at MS
2. A good salary, way above national and local average
3. Great benefits for you and your family
4. Decent housing, provided as a direct reason of your employment at Microsoft
5. And overall, a good, quality life for 10 years, better than 99% of the people on this planet.
So, it seems, instead of being bitter, you should be thankful Microsoft kept you for 10 years and with all the aforementioned benefits. It appears to me to be a mutually beneficial relationship. You should save us the drama, and welcome to the real world. No one's job is safe and guaranteed.
Well, my particular group in MSIT lost 3 outta 7. I'm one of the four who didn't get cut, but the fact is the ones who are out are in a sense the lucky ones, because there is of course no adjustment in the deliverables. They'll just pile it on us four remaining.
4:27AM "but Microsoft did take good care of its people".
The offered severance above and beyond WARN and holiday pay reimbursement was 5-10% of one's not yet collected stock awards earned for great results over the previous 5 year period, for some of the 1400. I find myself challenged by your use of the term "good care".
"Good care" would have factored in a percent of pending stock compensation that was the same across all affected, so that the results people got more than the rest-vest crowd. Another option would have been giving the employee that percentage or the tenure-based package, whichever was greater.
The team I was on favored large amounts of stock over large immediate bonuses for the top of its team, in order to incent us to stay around. I suggest anyone who finds themselves in a similar situation on such a team today start looking for alternatives.
I don't claim that LiveSearch is the next best thing since sliced bread. What I said in an earlier mail that it's a vastly improved product from what it was back in, say, 2005. I also mentioned that it needed to show some results soon, else everyone here is ready to face the axe.Whoah, you really are a newbie, aren't you? MSN Search was flushing loads and loads of money down the toilet even before it became Live Search. The rest of MSN would have been profitable years ago if it wasn't for them.
MSN/Live Search "needed to show results" 3-4 years ago and deserved a good healthy dose of the old chop-chop two years ago. Not that I wish it on you guys but a reckoning is really really overdue.
to the Live search-haters out there, what you said is simply not ture. Since the roll-out of 30% cashback last year, our search volumen has increased more than 5%Most normal people would be ashamed to admit that they have to pay their customers to use their service. Not Live Search, they've been throwing around money so long that they boast about it.
Thanks for working so hard to spend the money that the rest of us in MSN earned.
-MSN vet
From word of mouth - the decision on who to put in what group (losing corp access today vs in two month) was made depending on if there were any open positions according to disciplin, level and qualification.
It seems to be true (at least in one case) - maybe it will make people who lost their badge today fell a little bit better, because there were no good performers vs bad performers.
msft is bloated and needed to do this ... but they might have been better served to do this when the economy was healthier (and people stood a chance of finding other work). using the current economy as a way to push way through (much needed) job cuts, when you have billions in the bank, is not a smart strategy.
"I had been bracing myself up for it, but still - the cold-bloodedness with which the top manager spoke at all-hands meeting today morning was quite chilling. I am never going to forget for the rest of my life. And the less i say about HR folks, the better it would be."
Totally agree - that was my experience as well. My GM couldn't care less and given I spent 10 years there and outperformed in recent years, it was heartless.
"The leaders in the Xbox and Games Division should all be fired. Talk about conflict of interest and bad decision making during harsh economic times.
http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=23533"
This makes me ill. Don Mattrick laid off over a hundred extremely talented people in MGS and then had MS aquire HIS OWN COMPANY! Did he not have to take the Standards of Business Conduct class? Where is the accountability for this BS?
They way MICROSOFT is reacting is giving an impression to outside world that they are weak. I feel, they should behave like a strong company.
Better if they focus on quality work rather than counting their revenue every quarter.
I did not see much firing impact at higher level (Manager, Sr. Manager etc..) specially in Hyderabad,India. Can Microsoft claim that they only have gems at Managers onwards. It's leadership's failure only if they are not able to manage the company well and if our revenue/profit is going down.
People are not able to concentrate on their work and worried more about the next quarterly results and the next round.
All the junk talent who have a good group in Microsoft are growing in the Company. More or less everything is based on the groupism whether it’s rating, ranking, promotions or firing. But who cares. I don’t think that any one reads the performance sheet filled by the employee and care about the contributions.
Microsoft is also not clear about the fact that on what basis they fired people, it looks like it is a lottery based firing at lower levels only.
Guys have fun for next three months lease and pray that your name should not be part of the lottery.
Great Microsoft :) Leave the attitude that you are the best.
Yesterday, Microsoft India sacked 50 sales and marketing (SMSG) staffers.
Mr. 10:30am puts some links in his post to try to stir things up.
Most of you, who regularly did highly technical work or decisionmaking on the job, can ignore 10:30am and skip the rest of this post too. It doesn't apply to you.
Links stir things up? That explains the Internet. Thanks.
Someone asked where to find information about WARN.
Does Microsoft assert its rights? Yes they do.
Employees should know their rights.
People have to work longer hours when a deadline approaches but you should know that you can try to negotiate some of that time back. If you have a family, they might want that time back.
Thar be links on teh interweb. Get used to it.
read this blog -
http://greatmicrosoft.blogspot.com/
"I *lived* Micrsoft. I *loved* Microsoft. I missed holidays, birthdays.. Even my 10th wedding anniversary while overseas. But that didn't matter to me.. I loved what I did, and the company I did it for. Hell, my family was a "rah rah" crew. I finally started getting at least some kudos..."
Same here. You know it's a freeing experience actually finding out the true. There are lots of people that have a great situation at Microsoft, and there are also a lot of zombies just going through the motions. The real true is that it's a ruthless environment when it comes to caring about the people. Some do really care, but from the top there is a lack of caring. I'm not bitter, just sad that it's such a two faced system - people are our most important asset... and we're going to cut 6.5% each year. Nothing about, we're going to try to make them better, ride out the storm, etc.
Kudos to HP and Mark Hurd. I'd work for any company he's running in a flash.
"Reading the hundreads of comments, it is evident that morale is destroyed. There are coments regarding lack of leadership. Comments regarding lack of vision. Poor products. Loss of market share."
Actually, a lot of people that are left are so wrapped up in their jobs that they're living inside a vacumn. They think about it and then get along with what they were doing. That's the problem. If they really cared, there would be an uprising. I heard some mention that they would have taken a pay cut if given the chance. But nobody has organized any efforts to do that. It's just human nature, sadly.
"Microsoft forgot that lesson when they created Vista (e.g not having enough device drivers so it just works when the install is finished). They'll do better with Windows 7.
On the desktop, Linux has not made those lists of steps short enough yet in enough cases. After all, Linux is free. Linux developers had an opportunity when people were dissatisfied with Vista but most people chose not to install Linux on their desktop.
Innovation is exciting but copying and refining over time pays off in the long run."
You, like I did when I used to work at Microsoft, are just missing everything that's been going in the past 10 years.
I started to look around and found that Linux is everywhere. Want to run a blog, it's Linux/Wordpress. Want to install free web apps - it's linux and a 5 minute install with hosters. Microsoft totally dropped the ball here - you don't even here Linux because they lost the battle.
Xbox - what everyone else said. Sinkhole.
The stock when compared to 10 years ago is lower. But think about this - adjust for inflation and it's PATHETIC.
Microsoft is going to be at best another big corporate conglomerate. Sure, people will have fun, they'll love their jobs - but how many? Thousands? Still only a percentage of the greater company. When the economy improves there will be a lot of people that look at other options.
"I really don't want to sit on my hands and hope I can find a job in a few months time..."
Sit on your hands? Dude, go start looking now. You don't need to accept the job before your time is up (IF you find one). Go to DBM and everything to get your name out there.
Mini - when are you going to talk about the latest poll numbers, especially the results on the leadership?
Steveb's performance must go under a review - now! The MS Poll results coming out show almost half of FTE's have pretty much lost faith in the leadership and are very worried on the direction of the company.
Why oh why do we all just sit around and bitch about the executive? We are held very accountable for our missteps, why isn't the executive?
The historic boondoggles that have happened over the last 5 years should be enough to demonstrate to shareholders, the board and the employees that the leadership of our great company must change - and fast.
That high powered talent and dedication is not easy to replace. These were people for whom it wasn't about the money, or promotions, or titles, but about doing something really cool and maybe changing the world as a result. Hopefully those folks can now go make other companies great. Help build the next generation Microsoft. I salute what they've helped achieve so far, and wish them the very best.
I second that. As an employee and shareholder, I thank you for your contribution. I wish the company could do the same.
The best solution would be to re-hire the excellent talent that was let go this week. Then, discover and fire the negative dead weight that feels they have enough time to bitch and complain on this blog rather than actually do any work to either improve their product and/or our company. If you hate it so much working here, do everyone a favor - leave.
One of the 1400 here (received internal search, no luck, no job offers to date, possibly something coming up, receiving $541 weekly unemployment, paying monthly COBRA coverage of about the same amount) - and my most pressing question at the moment: Is it true that matching funds checks for charitable contributions are bouncing? Not only did I already have to tell the nonprofit organizations we support that there would be no more cash from us at this time, and that from here on out volunteer time would no longer be matched at the $17 rate that Microrosft matches per hour, now do I have to go and let them know that the quarterly match amounts for previous donations are going to bounce??? Charitable matching funds have been paid out by Microsoft in the last couple of weeks - were they blocked? "Just" bouncing? Several organizations where I donated my time had been notified these funds were on the way. Now I guess I also get to look like an idiot - I already told one that I will make good on the matching funds if it doesn't come through from Microsoft as scheduled, as they already allocated the $$$. So that will come from my savings, out of good conscience, if it is necessary.
BTW, the two levels of management above me had not been notified of my cut either - only known at GM level for me, and it was the same song and dance about cutting a redundant role. I also had been at Microsoft for less than a year, having been heavily recruited from my former company, with compensation including a large MS stock grant to convince me to come over - all that stock is now back in the company coffers, as no portion of it vested before I was cut loose. Gave up the remainder of the old company's long-term compensation to take the Microsoft job, plus a long tenure there, thinking how could any company that has that much cash be a risk? I will be remembering that decision for a long time. We were so excited about coming to Microsoft - didn't imagine any of this.
Two companies at least talking to me right now about jobs, so that's something. Always had easy employment access in the past, people fighting over who would get me to work for them, etc. No one has anything right now, except for cut-rate contracting.
Anyone who is wondering if they should jump at a new job or wait through the WARN notice 60 days - WAIT. Take the severance. Catch your breath. Do not take a temporary contract job at the risk of losing your severance and COBRA extension money, if you have been at Microsoft long enough for these two buckets of money to be big. Read the severance agreement all the way through - my wife and I made two copies, and sat at the kitchen table late at night, each with a yellow highlighter, going through it to understand it all. Wish I had gone to an attorney for their thoughts, so consider that if you want an expert opinion.
Sql Server is another useless bloated org. A lot of useful people and a lot of useless ones. I hate to talk to those guys - those are the snottiest people in Microsoft.
In SQL Server, if you don't have a Phd. then you're not l33t.
Their attitude is no different than the one shown here towards the people being laid off.
All things being relative, it is one of the intelligent vs ignorant social stratifications of the smart people at Microsoft.
The only difference is it is happening to you.
As per a contact in MS PR - one more round of layoffs coming before the end of the fiscal year. No numbers, no divisions specified.
Since getting laid off on tuesday I found out (by asking HR directly as it's not in the paperwork they gave me) that for those on admin/paid leave until July 4th, if you accept a job other than FTE back with MSFT, you'll lose your severance and everything else!!!! I didn't know this and it's very sneaky as I got already two offers to come back as a v-. I will not accept of course until July 5th.
More random thoughts:
- Redmond should have done like Ireland did and ask for volunteers. They'd be shocked how many people would want to leave but stay because they wouldn't get any money if they quit. Let's keep the people that want to stay and get rid of the others. It didn't work quite that way...
- After the volunteers skim the poor performers and reshuffle the ones that remain
- I still didn't receive a logical explanation as to why some people were given 6 weeks to look for another job with full access to internal resources and others were given 60 days of paid leave. Makes no sense.
To every other laid off employee, it's tough, but there's a whole world out there, it does look like microsoft is sinking...
One hundred percent of the layoffs in SMSG india are individual contributors.. Why no managers have been shown the door? Dores it mean we have outstanding managers or are they indispensible?
The only possible answer lies in the "crisis is a too good an opportunity to waste" argument ... the bosses in India used the opportunity for them to get rid of team members who were not licking their boots or who were had the potential to replace their managers. Else how do you explain the above.. In my opinion a few managers and directors should have made the list.. and not just the ICs who should have been fired.
Search is also going through a major re-org. Could this be the calm before the storm for those folks in Bldg 88?
What will happen after the brand release?
Anyone cares to take on this one?
I was assured by my GM that my layoff was not performance related. In fact, she even reached out to a few other GM's, in other divisions, to see if they had a role for me. I actually thought that proved that my layoff was not due to performance and made me feel somewhat better (after the shock). My tenure here has given me a really good package (maxed out on 39 weeks, plus the 60 days, plus 10 weeks of vacation paid, plus COBRA and a large portion of my CBI, that I might not even have gotten if I stayed here). This is certainly not the company that I started with. I love this company and it became part of my DNA, but that was a big mistake. It is okay to like your company but you have to remember that Microsoft is a public company and they are ultimately accountable to their shareholders first. This RIF was all about driving up EPS since our revenues aren't coming in. When MSFT is making money, scrutiny is laxed. When they are losing money, finger pointing starts. It's funny, I have received three types of emails as a result of my leaving; 1) condolence emails, which to me are funny (I didn't die did I). 2) MSFT employees who are sad to see me go and secretly wish that they got the package too and 3) Congratulatory emails. The interesting thing is that the congratulatory emails all came from former MSFT employees who tell me there is a "great" life after MSFT.
I might be a glutton for punishment, but I would come back to Microsoft. The big question is, do I like it so much that I would give back my severance. Yes, if you come back too soon, you owe MSFT money back.... ouch.
Was a part of the Lay off on Tuesday at MS Boulder Virtual Earth. Combo of MS employees and Equiom vendors. I believe it was 15 FT MS employees and 11 Equiom Vendors. Vendors got nothing, no package. Originally before Tuesdays Lay off 85-95 people were in the Boulder office. The Entire IT department gone, the entire QC department gone, 1/2 of the AT group.
Not sure how they are going to survive. I'm not mad, I'm just disappointed, after just last months big push and release of 3D cities.. not sure the future of this product or if they are done with the offs in Boulder, a sad day.... it will now be a LONG time before they even come close to google....IMO
And interestingly enough, everyone who has been communicated to has a slightly different answer to the question "What is the criteria for selection?"It's simple. It was healthcare costs, number of dependents, monthly maintenance medications, health problems. Microsoft's biggest benefit is provided on the basis of being self-insured. If you don't think they're tracking those costs, you're deluding yourself. Gold star, great performer...doesn't matter.
They're looking at those costs you're causing, and obviously MS doesn't think you're going to get cheaper as time goes on.
"sure in hell won't be back, so no worries there. I don't want to lose severance because (shock) I actually need to provide for my family. The severance package stipulates that if I am offered a position at MS, and I reject it, I will lose my severance. So I have to be careful not being offered anything formally. I am sure as hell not going to return to busting ass for a company that dropped me to the curb."I still don't understand what your problem is -- you were given severance by the company to give you the chance to find another job... so, of course if the company rehires you right away you should return the severance. That's completely fair and reasonable.
Severance isn't a gift because the company feels badly that you lost a particular job -- it's a surrogate salary to help give you breathing room to find another job. You don't need that surrogate if you're rehired by the same company.
There are leads, who are get promoted, when they have never ever designed or developed anything or even have good product ideas.They are also inefficient & mostly ineffective about Engineering/Planning. Made your point very well.
New leadership is doing a fair job cleaning up mess but as you say there are still lot of ineffective leads / managers continue crippling WinMo.
Question to all the people who were impacted. Is it better to take the cobra insurance?? My spouse is working and her employer offers insurance too, although the employer is going to deduct about 200$ from my spouse's paycheck for the coverage. Cobra (for premera blue cross) is higher than this amount.
I am not sure which health insrance to sign up for - cobra, or my spouse's? We do not have any health issues and are in late twenties.
Thoughts - on what other people in similar situation are doing?
"And interestingly enough, everyone who has been communicated to has a slightly different answer to the question "What is the criteria for selection?"It's simple. It was healthcare costs, number of dependents, monthly maintenance medications, health problems. Microsoft's biggest benefit is provided on the basis of being self-insured. If you don't think they're tracking those costs, you're deluding yourself. Gold star, great performer...doesn't matter."
This is crazy nuts and absolutely not true. Many, many young, single and robustly healthy people were cut in these layoffs.
You're dead wrong and need to stop spreading FUD.
Xbox - what everyone else said. Sinkhole.
ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!
Xbox *was* a sink hole. Xbox is now profitable, and LIVE is *wildly* profitable. Xbox is growing extremely fast and is finally realizing its potential.
So please, shut your pie hole about it being a sink hole -- that was yesterday. Today it's one of the few bright starts in Microsoft's future.
To all the folks weighing new job vs. severance, how, exactly, is Microsoft going to find out that you have a new job? Your new employer certainly isn't going to call up Microsoft to cancel the severance?
Reg. BVV : Everyone has noticed it. The joke going around town is that when he isn't posting on the DAC/Indian alias, it's not because he's busy working but he's busy posting on the Real Estate alias!Investment club alias as well. Someone should print out a day's worth of his posts and IO them to his GM and see how long he stays in the GAL afterwards. There is no way someone who writes several essays a day on social aliases is doing their work to the best of their ability. Everyone needs time to goof off here and there, but BVV is beyond belief.
Rajan Anandan and team (RAT) has to accept that they have little understanding of not only the market, customers and partners but also their teams..and this is creating havoc. The only thing Mr. Anandan did the entire year was planning with inputs from highly 'incompetent' Directors and Managers. I use the phrase 'incompetent' not because these Dirs and Mgrs are not skilled, but for years they have been using their skills for internal politicking and have kept themselves away from the realities of the Indian customers. They have no sense of ownership or respect for their team and in the first place not expected of them. With unmindful layoffs of our colleagues last week, whom i have known to have great customer connects, there is only going to be more shocks for RA & Team (RAT) in the market. The ongoing fish fights btw Managers/Directors will only make the Gauls surrender to the Romans..
I was one of the Cinco de Fire-O's. I loved my job and team and I was a strong performer. A few weeks ago I sensed there would be cuts in my org so I found another job opening and began interviews the day before I was let go. I finished the interview loop on Wed, the day after I was let go. I felt I did well in the interviews, but I have strong reservations about the position, mgr and team based on some of the dialogue. However the severence package (which I have not yet signed) states that if they offer me the job I must take it or else forfeit my severance. Severance aside, I don't want that job and know I can find something that is right for me. I don't want to settle and take the first job that comes my way out of desperation. I owe it to myself and my employer to find a mutually satisfying job, and I'm willing to take the risk until I find the right job.
Do I need to withdraw from the interview process before they extend an offer?? I don't know if they will or not, but I'm not willing to take the chance of feeling obligated to take a job I don't want AND lose my severance.
Search is also going through a major re-org. Could this be the calm before the storm for those folks in Bldg 88?I don't work in Live Search, so take this with a grain of salt. If Microsoft is committed to an online presence and hopes to tap into the vast online market, there is much work left to do. Much money has been invested and several battles are being waged on several fronts. Maybe the investments haven't been as fruitful as the company would have liked, but Microsoft is now in an unfortunate situation of being stuck with the online services division.
The company already made an unsuccessful attempt to buy Yahoo and at this point is not in a position to pursue such expensive and expansive buyouts. The govt is ramping up its antitrust efforts (see: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/11/business/11antitrust.html?hp), so it would be tough to entertain such large mergers.
Making deep cuts in the online services division, to the tune where it matters to the bottom line (e.g. 1000+ layoffs in that division), negates the "we want to aggressively invest in online presence" message the company has been sending to the world the last few years. With dwindling revenue streams in established product lines and diminished hope of being an important part of the future, there won't be much hope left for investors.
I'm not arguing that the investments made so far have been productive. I'm merely observing that the company doesn't have much choice and is stuck with its current level of investment. Hopefully the SLT pays attention to how the money is being spent and demands better accountability from the execs running this division.
With several new execs recently hired into the online services division, it is hard to see how the company can reduce its commitment to the division before it gives the new execs a chance to make a difference.
Was laid off on Tuesday ... 13+ years as a dev ... lacking career velocity. Family with our share of medical costs. Seems like lots of people with lots of years at Microsoft were laid off. Looking forward to a nice summer. Looking forward to a non-windows mobile phone once my contract expires. No longer feeling any guilt using google search and google maps.
http://www.msanet.org It costs $130 a year but you get access to the company store and a $600 spend limit on software – well worth the price of membership.$730 dollars PER YEAR!! I don't think that's a good deal. I left MS long time ago and have not had the need to buy a single MS product since. There are other software alternatives and they are free, as in zero dollars(open source)- you can't beat that. As far as medical insurance you can do far better than what msa offers.
:Question to all the people who were impacted. Is it better to take the cobra insurance?? My spouse is working and her employer offers insurance too, although the employer is going to deduct about 200$ from my spouse's paycheck for the coverage. Cobra (for premera blue cross) is higher than this amount.
I am not sure which health insrance to sign up for - cobra, or my spouse's? We do not have any health issues and are in late twenties.
Thoughts - on what other people in similar situation are doing?"
Someone correct me if I am wrong...
You will get the $$ for COBRA, whether you use it for that or not.
Proceed accordingly.
Who designed the UI there? Isnt that a proof of political infighting between various sub-teams inside search organization? And to add salt to the wounds - in my team everyone uses google to find kb articles inside msdn. It is a shame really.
Even people in Search uses Google. Heard from one of my friend in live search.Here is a comment from one of his team member. "I prefer using Google. Obviously Live Search have some relevance problem and that is not the business of our team". My friends team is working for another project other than Relevance. Another time a PM of his team sending IM in communicator.
"Google X". Then he sent my friend the google link for that search query. My friend tested that result in Searchvote and both live and google were giving same set of results. If we have this mentality in search organization how do we expect that people from other division will use live instead of google.
@7:08 Federal assistance will take care of 65% of the COBRA payment. That brings the amt to 450-600 depending on if you have family and want dental, etc. I'd take the $200 option.
It's funny. I've been reading mini off and on since the beginning, but I always read the comments from the perspective of someone who was going to "stick it out" and make something of myself at MS. I've made it to L67, but I have to face facts that it may be as far as I can go.
I was away from the office last week and had some time to reflect on my job - and I finally realized it wasn't that great of a job - or at least I didn't like it that much anymore.
When I leave (first interviews begin next week), I hope it will raise some waves - my name is moderately well known among some factions across MS. It's probably just my ego talking though, and I suspect that although I'll be in a much better position in life, that nobody at the red-tape loving management heavy borg will even notice.
Its me with the COBRA vs spouse's insurance opinion. I was quoting family premiums (with the 65% subsidy). If it's just you, it'll be less. I would call the COBRA support line that was given to you so you get get your user id and initial password, and then check out the rates.
Related to Cobra... I left on my own accord just about 2.5 years ago to become self-employed. I looked at a lot of different options, chose catastrophic coverage. For my wife, my 17 year old daughter, and myself it was about $250 a month. You pay darn near everything out of pocket, but if you're relatively healthy it's a WHOLE lot less expensive than anything even close to the all-encompassing health insurance you're used to with Microsoft.
Something to consider.
@12:14:00 AM - I sympathize with you. I was in the same boat as you: dev for 12y, lacking career velocity. So, before the layoff could hit me, I decided to take matters in my own hands and started interviewing outside. I found a job with a startup and am much happier now. Sure, the health benefits are not as good, but the fact that I have less stress in my life balances for that... Also, I probably lost 6m of severance, but I dont care...
I think what people have to realize when working for MS, is that MS is a puppy mill... they want to churn 10% or more of their people so that they can keep hiring new blood with the hope that some of them will turn out to be hotshots. While this is good for MS (maybe) it burns out employees, because sooner or later, you realize that there is more to life than working 60+ hr weeks and shooting for the promo to senior->principal->partner and beyond. And people who have reached the stage in life where they want a work/life balance are not desirable for MS anymore.
So, if you are at that stage in life, I would start looking around (as I did). Take control of your destiny. Yes, leaving MS sounds scary, with all the medical copays, lack of freebies, etc. But you will be much happier in the long run, and also get to play with technologies that you dont have a chance to even look at in MS.
I consider myself a good engineer, first and foremost. I dont care about the titles, and have no desire to add senior->principal->* titles to my name as an end in itself. I just want to write code, and be rewarded once in a while for it, by good compensation, and recognition. I wasnt getting that in MS.
Read this:
http://recessioncamp.squarespace.com/
Xbox *was* a sink hole. Xbox is now profitable, and LIVE is *wildly* profitable. Xbox is growing extremely fast and is finally realizing its potential.You do realize that the definition of profit is, basically, money you have left over after recouping cost of investment?
Are you saying that since the creation of the xbox or xbox 360, that the money that has come in has now exceeded the money that was spent on its development? If so, sources please.
MSIT India numbers are more than 1% that the leadership is quoting. Its all a big LIE.First they say 1% of total India workforce and the actual number of people laid off(Resource OPTIMIZED as the leadership say it) is more than 100 in MSIT India only. It was bad last week as the employees were first asked to go and then escorted to cabs waiting outside the building.
People who have got Exceeded ratings were also asked to leave. The worst thing was none of the top level leadership were asked to leave, AFAIK. None of the stupid managers were asked to leave even if their MS Poll is screwed up this time. Even the management knows about it.
The CRITERIA - Role based is what the management says and not performance based. Even this is a big LIE.
Do I need to withdraw from the interview process before they extend an offer?? I don't know if they will or not, but I'm not willing to take the chance of feeling obligated to take a job I don't want AND lose my severance.Don't withdraw from the loop - they might have some loophole to yank your severence anyway.
If you're offered the job, take it, smile, say nice things. Keep looking outside the company for a better job. Don't feel bad if you give your new team notice a week after starting.
Don't look inside the company for a better job. More cuts will be coming. Whatever your track record was before, you know it didn't protect you from Cinco-de-fire-O. You'll be vulnerable in the next round too.
Good luck.
200 Blunt RIFs in India
"Even people in Search uses Google. Heard from one of my friend in live search.Here is a comment from one of his team member. "I prefer using Google. Obviously Live Search have some "On this I would like to say, why should I switch from google to live? What incentive do I have to do that? And I hate live anyway because MSFT is just burning away cash and Freezing my pay rise this year. all this because of LIVE SEARCH
I joined MSFT 2 years ago and I am in one of the current two big cash cows in MSFT, for me, I have some thoughts about what I experienced. I share the same feeling as this guy since I am in the same boat.
Does anybody care?
I found that in office and windows which are 'old' groups, normally it will take 1.5 to 2 years to be promoted no matter whether you work hard or not, it's just like a formalized procedure, but in Live search, mobile or other new groups, they get promoted every year, is this fair? i am very confident that not only me feels this way, many new guys in our big div feel this.
not so good Disengagement TermsThe story behind cooked up forced resignation & disengagement terms of MS India
Recently found this blog, it's good to see (mostly) rational discussion here.
As a former FTE and Vendor
My 2cents worth...
For those who got RIF'd: I wish you all the best of luck even thought you are now more competition for the few jobs available in sw tech in Seattle area. Prepare yourselves, it really is ugly out there finding a job no matter what your experience level, might be a long haul.
For those of you negative pundits still employed and "demoralized": If you don't want to work at Microsoft anymore, then please, go right ahead and quit. Don't just complain, vote with your feet.
Make room for those of us with talent and experience who WANT to work at Microsoft even with all the faults that MS has(yes I agree there are many, but the alternative...).
Three of my (very good and close) colleagues were let go, glad to have survived the axe. However, this has been such an eye opening experience and made me really re-evaluate my relationship with Microsoft, which I admit I always took for granted - it had become part of my DNA that I LOVED the company and dedicated everything I got for it: it was like my family. I was fiercely loyal and prioritized the success of my deliverables over even the little pleaseures of my family life. Now I realize what a blind beatle I have been and am so ashamed of myself: thanks for reminding all of us, MoFu Ballmer and KT, that no matter how much of our heart and soul we give to the company's success, we are merely "resources" that can be helplessly trashed out one fine morning even when there is 40B in the bank, just because you think so: with the same cavalier indifference as discarding an ink cartridge from a copier.
If this can happen to my friends who I know are above average performers and very dedicated workers, it can happen to me or anyone else in the company (may be except the dysfunctional MoFus in the upper echelons of SLT, read sycophants of Ballmer).
Those who think these layoffs saved the company any money in the long run: you must be brain dead, retarded or smoking pot. The average severance package and WARN period would have been enough to pay for these employees another six months without letting them go (and actually letting them do productive work for the same cost). Work had come to a grinding halt over the past few days as most people were too stressed to focus on anything. Above all, given the company is no longer a safe haven or a great place to work, there is no incentives for star performers to hang in here for great talent to join us once the economy is back on its feet.
MSFT has been relegated to the ranks of a "hire and fire" bodyshop like Walmart. The overall loss of productivity from these layoffs, loss of reputation, and the gross cost, I believe add up to making this a loss making exercise for the company.
I, for one, love or feel connected to this company no more. I want to hang in here until the conditions improve outside, and I am out at the first opportunity to join a well managed company that actually cares and treats their employees as what they are: human beings. I dont want to wait till I am kicked in the nuts. And, no more will I miss my kids' parties, family reunions or weekends, as I dont want to be like those who gave it their all only to be dumped heartlessly into a grim economy even when the coffers are full with cash. Whatever happened to your sense of commiment and sticking it through think and thin, SOB Ballmer and co?
I have changed; and will be smart enough to see my job as strictly a business deal it is: sustain my paychecks until I find a real job I feel passionate to work hard for again, where I feel it will be a two-way bridge and my hardwork and dedication is reciprocated with job security and transparency.
I mean, when they opened the multimillion $ "Commons" and then laid off so many longstanding employees, was this gesture any better than spitting on their faces?
still in love...
yes, i know it is dysfunctional, but i am still in love with you, microsoft. the first time i saw you was in the mid 90's when i came to campus for an event. you were with somebody else then and so was i...but i can't forget how impressed i was with how smart you were, how beautiful your campus was and how much software you were churning out every year. your beautiful software ways were a mystery to me - all i wanted to do was wear a fleece jacket, eat lots of salmon and be part of your bedhead millionaire club. maybe it was seattle that did it to me - the clean air and beautiful mountains, the dark nights and the sonics teams of g payton and s kemp.
it took us almost ten years to finally get together...i was breaking up with my then-current situation and you reached out to me. apple also called out to me but i didn't heed her; she had been an untrustworthy whore in the past. but you - with your geeky smarts and aspirations to change the world...i could not say no.
We've been together for almost 10 years now...to be honest baby, you are getting a little long in the tooth. the once youthful idealism you had about super smart people changing the world...well, i don't hear so much about that any more. i just hear you asking me about my scorecard and i just want to roll over and go to sleep. yes, i know you cheated on me with yahoo - you were just trying to compete with that young hottie, google.
we can still make this work, but you have to get yourself together, lose a few pounds and decide who you want to be. you can't be all things to all people. maybe you should lose some of your friends like that "EDD" guy who is costing you so much money. everytime you go out with him, you have to pick up the check and he never pays you back - even when he gets wasted and all four of his red lights go off...maybe you can spin him off and see if he can survive in the real world
and you know, i have to tell you, it seems like you keep making these "really important" friends but you never get rid of any. how many CVP and SVP does somebody need? your problem is that you can't say no...
anyway, despite all of those problems, i still love you. i still get tingly when i think of you going out, all dressed up in your win 7 finery. and your IW accessories are so sophisticated - like ferragamo for the information worker's soul. and when you talk about using technology to solve the world's problems every july - well, you kind of have my heart for another year.
treat me and your customers right honey - don't always focus on trying to be as hot as women half your age (i.e. google or whoever today's hot young tart is) - just be yourself and we'll be ok. yes, i know you hired too many people - everyone makes that mistake. it will take us all some time to get over this. just don't make the same mistake again - eating so many doughnuts (zune, xbox, msn, search) with their empty calories. stick to eating high protein, high profit snacks.
it's ok to try something new once in a while, but if you eat it for five years and all you get is fat - well, i told you so.
so, for now, ciao. i'm glad i finally got this off my chest.
"When I leave (first interviews begin next week), I hope it will raise some waves - my name is moderately well known among some factions across MS. It's probably just my ego talking though, and I suspect that although I'll be in a much better position in life, that nobody at the red-tape loving management heavy borg will even notice."
Nothing personal, but most people won't blink twice. They are zombies wading through e-mail and their overworked lives that are now more overworked because there are less people to do what needed to get done.
If they cared, they would have, like posted earlier, peered up from their zombie-feed and made some attempt at stopping the insane firings.
Was laid off on Tuesday ... 13+ years as a dev ... lacking career velocity.As a shareholder, the above is the kind of post I don't like to see. Here's what I think "career velocity" should mean for a dev: Do your features get shipped, work out of the box and have low support costs? And better still, do customers love them? To use other words, are you still a real contributor to a product's success? If not, FAIL, otherwise, please keep doing what you're doing.
The engineering talent that's walking out the door saddens me. Of course some were at the rest and vest stage, but I know at least one who wasn't.
There were 7 people got laid off in my husband's group. Do you think there will be a laid off in the group that got cut already for the next round?
Were all really screwed if Mini gets laid off! ;-)
For all of you who are no longer at MS and are concerned about health benefits, here is a little advice from someone who left MS in 2001 ( I returned to MS in 2004 and managed to escape cut this time). When I left, I went on Cobra for a while and then purchased my own insurance. I was 30 at the time. I never had any health issues so I was too concerned about it. Unfortunately, about a year or so later, I was diagnosed with cancer and my insurance was crap! Don't use your age and current good health as an excuse to skimp on health insurance costs. Believe me, you should always be prepared. And for all you concerned folk out there, I am now over 5 years cancer free :D
Reg. BVV : Everyone has noticed it. The joke going around town is that when he isn't posting on the DAC/Indian alias, it's not because he's busy working but he's busy posting on the Real Estate alias!Investment club alias as well. Someone should print out a day's worth of his posts and IO them to his GM and see how long he stays in the GAL afterwards. There is no way someone who writes several essays a day on social aliases is doing their work to the best of their ability. Everyone needs time to goof off here and there, but BVV is beyond belief.
Good Lord, I'm glad someone else noticed BVV as well. If you look at a collection of this guy's posts, especially on the investment alias, one really has to wonder how the heck he gets anything done. Almost each one of his posts is like a freaking research paper or thesis for a PhD. It's unreal how much time he spends on this crap.
Me personally, I belong to 4 social aliases, and I probably spend 1-2hrs a week browsing/posting. Most of my activity either happens around lunch time, or towards the end of the way before I'm ready to leave.
How does BVV get away with this? I'm not saying we gang up on him and collect a day's worth of posts and send it to his manager, but somehow, someway, we have to make it known that he's over the top. In this economy, and in these times, when you should be hanging on to your job with dear life, you should not be posting to social aliases 3-4hrs a day.
And judging from his posts, he's pretty full of himself, too.! :-)
The doing away with the Response Point team is completely bizarre.
This was a team that built and released 1.0 within 2 years, and rapidly shipped 2 service packs within a year. If that isn't agility within MS, I don't know what is. Along the way they received rave reviews including being one of only 4 MS products to win Infoworld's 2009 Technology of the Year Award. There was even a reversal of roles where MS was taking the lead over the open source guys, for a change: Asterisk-based FreePBX clones Microsoft Response Point's Easy ButtonResponse Point appeared to be navigating the disruptive technology curve, but was stopped short.
Like I said, bizzare. Also, why do I get the feeling that John Chambers of Cisco is feeling a little relieved these days?
As a shareholder, the above is the kind of post I don't like to see. Here's what I think "career velocity" should mean for a dev: Do your features get shipped, work out of the box and have low support costs? And better still, do customers love them? To use other words, are you still a real contributor to a product's success? If not, FAIL, otherwise, please keep doing what you're doing.
The engineering talent that's walking out the door saddens me. Of course some were at the rest and vest stage, but I know at least one who wasn't.
You can only rest and vest if you're not given challenging work.
Are they really resting and vesting or are they being managed out by their manager trying to make their job as boring as possible?
The best way to keep your skills up to date is to do challenging work.
If you see someone you believe resting and vesting, have their manager give them something more to do.
If their manager gives them something more challenging, they'll either:
1) Get the work done.
2) Fail to do the work and eventually get fired if they don't wake up.
3) Get another job somewhere else where they can go back to sleep.
Do I need to withdraw from the interview process before they extend an offer?? Withdraw immediately! If they extend an offer and you refuse it you lose everything; severance and the new job. Chances are that you are not going to get the other job but just to make sure withdraw. I have a friend who was given 6 weeks last year; another situation before this layoff business, and he was looking and interviewed for a position but decided it wasn't for him and he withdrew. Got his severance and is now back as a contractor.
Ugh. The layoffs have certainly been sickening. This feeling doesn't compare to what the 5000 have to deal with, of course.
Been here as a permatemp since '94, FTE since '00. Throughout this time, what we've ever had in terms of a work environment has been special, even now. We are essentially a legion of very privelaged folk. What has made this possible? A lot of luck and a lot of hard work. A lot of leverage and investment.
Don't think you're "privelaged?" Listen to us here: the first non-growth quarter ever and we are freaking out like spoiled children. Of course you are privelaged. Unless you've been in Office or Windows since 1992, you've enjoyed the investment fruits of others hard work.
The problem is that we've been due for a cost-cutting phase for a while. They happen every 4 or 5 years. This one coincidentally had to come along with the worst recession since the depression. The only way to successfully cut costs in this environment is to cut headcount. That in addition to all the "ususal" cutting measures.
Any of the privelages we enjoy here look sickening in this context of 5000 with hat in hand. Listening to all the whine here makes it pretty clear that we can't cut any more than we have though.
Just to hit a few more points:
We jumped in search to compete with Google. As much for recruiting as for share. It is sad that we have to win search share even for our own employees. Please eat your own dogfood. Everyone ate your Exchange, Win, and Office dogfood so return the favor. That goes for the Zune and WinMo and all the other smaller segments we have dipped our toes in. Use them and help improve them.
Netbooks aren't a fad, our part of the deal is investment in the cloud. Why focus on smallish devices with the thinnest of margins? Do the low hanging fruit to keep in touch, but other than that, netbooks are a tiny segment that has juice because people are very tight with money right now in a depressed world economy. (Which is how big businesses are born, see the Automobile Industry.) Think millions of netbooks all accessing SharePoint and OWA, and we'll get our piece as those evolve as part of a more integrated cloud.
The street absolutely loved our cost cutting measures, so you can be sure they are here to stay for an extended tour. Just find a way to think positively about it. To paraphrase, you are part of the solution whether you are the problem or not, so shape up or ship out.
Thanks again if you are one of the 5000.
Microsoft Corp. priced a $3.75 billion debt offering.
Why?
How does going into debt to make stock buybacks make sense?
Is this a trial run so Steve can use leverage to expand Microsoft further than cash alone? It worked so well for the financial industry he wants to give it a go?
Russian sub has been cut off today.
They are so cowardly that they did not even announce the total numbers. Every laid off person was notified privately. Or was supposed to. The rumored number is 20-30% of all FTEs.
They announced it today on company-wide meeting. Europe VP even came here to talk senseless corporate bullshit to people he's going to fire. GG "cost savings".
" Listen to us here: the first non-growth quarter ever and we are freaking out like spoiled children."
I would expect at least 3 more non-growth quarters since it's compared to last year before we see any improvements.
"If you see someone you believe resting and vesting, have their manager give them something more to do."
You have obviously never experienced life in a dysfunctional MS group where the manager is either incapable of dealing with rest and vest employees or actually identifies with them (because of friendship, shared skill set, or because their limited ability and results makes he/she feel better about their own contribution). Doing what you suggest in that situation could easily result in the manager resenting you for questioning his skills and YOU being branded as a trouble maker. In which case you'll be the one managed out.
Been there.
You people are crazy volunteering a pay cut. Good luck with that - I bust my ass at this job and am keeping every cent. The thought of taking a pay cut and protecting some slacker - what are you smoking??
Wow lots of posts.
I think we should enact a new stance on firing people. Instead of firing people and then having head count to refill we should encourage everyone to identify a position (like ops or it) that can be replaced with a small shell script. Someone write that script, then destroy the job and split 10% of the jobs salary amungst the employees as a bonus or something...
"Microsoft Corp. priced a $3.75 billion debt offering.
Why?"
Take advantage of some cheap leverage in USD, the currency most of the recurring obligations are in (buybacks, dividends, etc).
"How does going into debt to make stock buybacks make sense?"
How does borrowing money to buy a business make sense? You think the business will generate a greater return than the interest obligation.
"Is this a trial run so Steve can use leverage to expand Microsoft further than cash alone?"
Probably. 24/25 of the largest US traded companies (market cap) utilize debt. It's a maturity thing.
"It worked so well for the financial industry he wants to give it a go?"
The financial industry didn't get into trouble because it issued modest amounts of well-backed corporate bonds.
How does going into debt to make stock buybacks make sense?This has worked well for many companies, example IBM in the mid 90s, in the past. Interest rates are low so the borrowing costs are low. But Microsoft also has cash, so the borrowing only makes sense if the cash is put to good use to get a better return than the interest rate paid on the bonds.
That's the bet. Will it work? Stay tuned. If Microsoft buys back stock, that is good news for shareholders. Very few companies are in a position to buy back stock, so this may help attract some institutional money looking for a place to park their cash (and get some dividend) and wait for the economy to get better.
Where are the full MSPoll results? They usually publish an Excel sheet that lets you drill down into the results. This time all they have on hrweb is a short slide deck that glosses over the details.
The doing away with the Response Point team is completely bizarre.
This was a team that built and released 1.0 within 2 years, and rapidly shipped 2 service packs within a year. How about throwing out some numbers on sales and profitability. so what if the team shipped 10000 features in 1 week. If the soap is not selling, stop selling the soap
Microsoft has squandered the loyalty it once had from many, if not most, employees. Loyalty is what motivates you to set aside personal concerns and make that next big push to deliver a great product, or delight the customer with that extra-mile service. Pride is another part of it, and pride has been having a tough go of it as well. After working at other world-class companies that treated me very well (e.g., as a human being, in addition to paying me competitive wages with good benefits), I was amazed when I first encountered the sacrifices that many were willing to make for Microsoft for relatively little tangible reward. But that was then, when Dream was still alive and well. All that is gone, or is at least well on its way out. Squandering this precious, invaluable asset could only be achieved through the exercise of quintessential stupidity.
Looks as though Jim Jubak did get the axe: http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Commentary/Experts/Jubak/Jim_Jubak.aspx
MS IT IndiaGTSC Bangalore
"For people who were good performer and got eliminated, you might be wondering what's the reason for the lay-off.
If the layoff is not a business adjustment, then it may be:
. Did you get divorced?
. Did you have trouble with the law, even you were not convicted?
. Did you have medical condition?
. Did you take prescription pain killer?
Microsoft HR has tools to get these information on you. If some of the issues apply to you, be alert."
Who keeps posting this garbage and why does Mini keep allowing it. There is simply no way MSFT would use these grossly illegal criteria to lay people off. It would constitute mass and systemic employment discrimination.
Microsoft Corp. priced a $3.75 billion debt offering.I think they are going to buy SAP
This is going to be insensitive - but whoever gets laid off from Microsoft should see that as a blessing in disguise.
If you see someone you believe resting and vesting, have their manager give them something more to do.That only works if:
1. Their manager doesn't have 1/3 or less the tenure that they have, making the manager afraid to touch them given MS' tenure-based hierarchy that exists in parallel to the real org hierarchy.
2. They're not the manager's best bud. The manager may also be in the rest and vest crowd and they're both "enjoying a good thing" so to speak.
All that aside, your point about people being maneuvered into rest-and-vest situations due to managers attempting to manage them out has teeth. Thinking back over the years, several rest-and-vest people were motivated performers until stuck under a bad manager with whom they had conflict and resumed leading the pack in new situations. If I've heard one PM story about their job being to manually move files to a staging area for a client when provided by the TAM, I've heard several. And these were staff with far greater capabilities who'd shown project leadership skills that outshone those of their manager, who today are at or above that manager's level.
“Severance isn't a gift because the company feels badly that you lost a particular job -- it's a surrogate salary to help give you breathing room to find another job. You don't need that surrogate if you're rehired by the same company.” Severance is a payoff to sign away your right to sue to the company that happens to be measured out in terms of weeks. It is not simply a surrogate salary to give someone breathing room, if so it would be paid weekly and not a lump sum. What about the unvested stock and lost seniority/future vacation accrual. People should think twice before doing anything that may forfeit their severance and they are not being greedy by doing so.
BTW – Those who are eligible for other group health coverage (such as a spouse's plan) or Medicare are not eligible for the COBRA premium reduction.
Did anybody from Gurdeep's org get cut this time?
> Wow, just heared that Microsoft pulled the plog of Response Point. Clearly this was killed by the larger and more bloated OCS team, which is a few years behind the smaller PBX. The OCS team is 10 times bigger than the Response Point team but I guess Craig Mundie is ten times weaker than Elop. This is why Mundie can't provide the aircover to fence off Elop. If BillG had been here, the outcome would have been different. Bill would probably have asked XD to take over Gurdeep's bloated org. What a sad story...
How does going into debt to make stock buybacks make sense?.
Stock buyback? or partner feeding time?
Wait for FY10. Almost every GM/(Sr)Director/PUM is being handed a headcount number that is lower than their current FY09 headcount which we are being asked to "manage" to.
The deepest cuts are in teams gearing up for launch (sharepoint, exchange, win client, office). After RTM/GA there will be deep cuts on those teams unless the economy turns around
Please eat your own dogfood. Everyone ate your Exchange, Win, and Office dogfood so return the favor. That goes for the Zune and WinMo and all the other smaller segments we have dipped our toes in. Use them and help improve them.This presupposes that the groups actually take feedback and make improvements. Very few actually do, so unless I see serious evidence to the contrary, I'll spend my own money where I see fit.
Mini, mini... Be careful what you wish for. I'm one of those who were cut last Tue. I'm also one of the "lucky" ones that got full 60 days. I'm trying to stay in MS, to find new job. It's hard and it's much harder than I anticipated, repeating 50 times "I'm strong, I can do it" doesn't help. I'll get through and won't give up, and I hope my co-workers will do too. Smartest folks, great teams were cut completely.
For all you who think it's good for MS, you're wrong. Cutting muscles won't make it stronger. We'll get stronger, those who survived this experience. Good luck to you all...
Re: company loyalty, come on. What in your employment contract says you have to become a Microsoft fanboy? What's with the juvenile "us vs. them" attitudes where people are calling Apple "crapple," etc. Do you not value your dignity and freedom to use the products you think are best?
Wait for FY10. Almost every GM/(Sr)Director/PUM is being handed a headcount number that is lower than their current FY09 headcount which we are being asked to "manage" to.
They do not go for formal layoff in such scenarios. They will just target some people and fire them by showing some causes. The typical victims are from 10% buckets. And in most of the cases those 10% people are just victims of poor management and politics.
"Are you saying that since the creation of the xbox or xbox 360, that the money that has come in has now exceeded the money that was spent on its development? If so, sources please."For chrissakes, there's no winning with you people.
Of course the total expenditure is still in the hole -- but that's not how business works. 5 years ago this was a different discussion with a different right answer, but today Xbox has 1) become profitable, finally, with a growing market share that continues to gain momentum, and 2) is well-positioned to continue growing in a number of key areas, specifically all fo the Live services which are raking in the dough.
So please, let the whole "kill Xbox" rest. We should have killed Xbox 5 years ago, we should NOT kill it today because the landscape has changed and it's finally a strong product with a strong future. Get it?
Alternate Career option for Steve BallCheck out the other polls of Indian mini, interesting
There was a poll running for past 1 week about allowing Monkey boy to continue with Microsoft.
RESULTS(Thanks to the anonymous for collating data)
Only 10% wanted Steve to stay.
49% wanted BillG to come back after kicking out Ball boy and 11% not sure about who next, but confirmed about their interest in kicking off game.
Interesting to see some 27% bluntly told they want to kick, have not spoke about the next candidate.
totally 90% of the population( most probably MS) is against Steve Ball.
Sample size: 177.
Mini,
You've been at this blog for quite awhile now, and despite the recent RIFs, we're still not a lean, mean profit machine.
It's been awhile now since MSFTExtremeMakeover threw in the towel.
The comment threads, even in the moderated posts, tend more toward whining than constructive input.
I'd be interested in your thoughts, maybe in the form of a whole post, on whether you've begun to think it's a lost cause that your lobbying for here now.
I did notice a bit of a change in heart in your first post after Jan. 22nd, but do you ever feel it's time for a swan song post here?
When I first started reading here, I believed the company could change. Now I nearly don't. It would require some MAJOR changes that don't look likely to happen if they haven't by now. Words like "overthrow" and "ouster" and "reconstruction" come to mind, I mean.
How about it? Have you got a good MiniMSFT State of the Nation, or even a MiniMSFT Concession speech waiting in the wings? I'm probably not the only one who'd appreciate a post like that from you soon.
Thanks,
Longtime Reader/Commenter/Regular
Why are people making such a big deal about these layoffs. If you look at the number of people who have left the company to go work for a competitor compared to the number MS has laid off the numbers would be quite small. Even if you include people getting fired over time for any reason I would guess more still quit.
I have been with MS for over 19 years. I have been a manager for much of that time and many employees on key projects left over the years. Many asked for a pay raise as sort of a ultimatum. If you read this blog you would guess they were acting morally valid but MS is an evil corporation.
If you work in Redmond when you got hired this was all laid out in the employment at will contract you signed. Very much like the sub-prime mortage people signed and then wanted to complain about it later. If you want some type of guaranteed employment you may consider a government job or even better move to some socialist EU country.
"The doing away with the Response Point team is completely bizarre."
Yeah, that's one cut that doesn't seem to make any sense. Huge addressable market, solid product with very good reviews, relatively small team...
Mini, this is BVV. The comments regarding me on this blog are uncalled for. I am not a GM or not even a manager. I am an IC. These comments put my job at risk. You could have used a little judgement.
I am a fast thinker and it does not take too much time to write those posts. Also, I work long hours. I finish all my corporate duties. One could fault me, if my projects are not completed on time. In that case, one could fault me even if I am not writing those posts.
So what these comments about me on your blog did is that I will not share my knowledge with others. I will be working as much or as little on my official projects as I am doing now. But it gives an impresssion that I am working hard. My productivity will be down because it is tough on me to not share my knowledge with others.
But these comments does prove one thing. In Microsoft, managing perception is far more important than managing performance. These commentators do not have any objection with my performance, but with their own perception of me. It would have been okay, if I use my extra time to play games. It is also okay, if I use my extra time to do meetings as some of the so called hard-workers do.
Think about it, they also have so much time to write on an anonymous blog, about an IC, who is only a peg.
My style has always been work smarter, rather than harder. As such, Microsoft per emloyee productivity by same rudimentry metric is less than half of say Google's employee. A Google developer is a PM and a Tester as well, and still he/she produces more code than a Microsoft's developer, who needs program manager and a tester separately.
So these commentators have problem with working smarter. I challenge anyone of them to do more than I do, in my job, as I am doing.
Agree with Tuesday, May 12, 2009 8:44:00 PM.
I have a FY10 headcount target that is approx 10% less than my current butts in seats. I'm not in a core launch business but I have heard the % are larger on those businesses.
You could say I could get there by shedding the bottom 10% but I've been 'shedding' throughout the year that this will cut into the 70 band.
All Softies should watch this counterad by Apple. This is so funny and shows that apple is keen to respond to I am a PC Lauren's ad.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohqmB-0_4NU&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Etechflash%2Ecom%2F&feature=player_embedded
"Playtable" team is hitting hard and lots of heads are rolling.
Farewell to those folks, but what else can we do to this?
To the manager who posted this
If you want some type of guaranteed employment you may consider a government job or even better move to some socialist EU country.I hope you will be escorted to the door in near future. You do not understand the pain of loosing job in such a bad market. And btw people dont consider microsoft as a guaranteed employment any more. Many people like me had trust on microsoft and accepted lots of sacrifices to start a job here. And many of them were laid off very unfairly this time. I hope people will calculate all the gains and risks before accepting a job offer from Microsoft in future (In case Microsoft recovers from current situation to start hiring again).
So please, let the whole "kill Xbox" rest. We should have killed Xbox 5 years ago, we should NOT kill it today because the landscape has changed and it's finally a strong product with a strong future. Get it?
No it's not. As other posters in this thread have mentioned(and you ignored) the gaming industry is cyclic. The 360 may be becoming profitable in the short term, but these gains are transient and short term.
The real key is if the lessons microsoft learned from the failures of the original xbox and the 360 will be able to used to win the next round.
Do you have that confidence?
I was working for MSFT during 1993-1998. A good 5 years hard work and amazing experience. It happened to be the best years of my experience and what I learnt, I use it to date and I excelled in every job I took since MSFT days - all becasue of the finance experience I gained in MSFT. During my tenure, I even scored a 4.5 merrit score which is the highest anyone can get. When I moved out to Canada, I tried my level best to get back to MSFT. Canada is famous for Canadian Qualifiction and Canadian Experience from day 1 (No wonder Canad lags behind many other countries) While most American companies accept an experienced person in their own branch, MSFT Canada was the first one to reject me outright even after strongest of recommendations! Naturally, my color did play a major role!!
Today, MSFT is in a pathetic condition. Even if MSFT sacks 20% employees, I dont think it will make any difference to the efficieny of the company but will improve the bottom line. It is high time the top management gets a thorough scrubbing. Bill Gates needs to get back, the way Michael Dell did otherwise it will have a slow death.
For you to have a laugh… Microsoft is now a company with regular layoffs driven by quarterly results, based on dubious criteria, and with managers having last minute notice of who they should fire next. Yet, my manager came to talk to me today about… JOB SECURITY!
I know that is out of desperation, given that I’ve given notice that I’m leaving. I’ve also been in the situation of not wanting to lose a good employee, and trying whatever I can to make the person see my current team as their best career option. But that is done via rational assertions about future opportunities to do interesting work, and get rewarded properly. Even better if that is based on a history of previous work being kept at the person’s level, being interesting, and getting the person always well rewarded.
That is exactly the opposite of what happens in my team, and the main reason for me to leave. My manager keeps assigning to me work that he should do, and then I do it in less time and better than he ever could have done, only for him to pick on a small issue totally out of scope and try to appear as the hero saving the day. Then, he refuses to fight for his team during calibration, and now the best he could come up with to try to keep on his team is job security!
This company has the worst managers I’ve worked with in my life! Not only they are disconnected from real work but they also look disconnected from reality.
Why are people making such a big deal about these layoffs.
It sounds like you would have to experience it to understand it.
For others, it is just the last in a continuing series of things that are objectionable.
1) forced ranking (focusing competition inward instead of toward competitors in the marketplace)
2) shark tank office politics related to #1
3) choked on process Shipping Software -
4) sleazy "managing out" practice sometimes based upon #2
5) 15 ways to shutdown a laptop Choices = Headaches by Joel Spolsky6) Run your email client, web browser, music player, and instant messaging at the same time. That's extra. Microsoft’s Plan to Upsell Windows 7Et cetera.
hmmm. I generally google "mini msft" to land onto this blog. Had issues with google website today, so used yahoo and live search after a long long time.
My first reaction is 'not bad'. First link on both of them were mini msft blogs.
Did a little more testing, and the results are good, although not as good as google. For e.g. if you search on 'msft' (ticker symbol for microsoft) - live gave first link to moneycentral. The google finance was only 6th link.
Come on live search team - you can do better than that. You need to dump mentality of 'supporting sister groups in MS'. Who uses moneycentral in today's world?? Their website looks same as it was in year 2000.
Live search - you still have relevance and attitude/mentality problems. Who would use you, if you keep moneycentral links to ticker symbol at top vs google finance link? Again who will use you if your 'relevance quotient' is 80% of google? Who will use you even if you are 100% as relevant as google search results? Google already has the momentum. You need to beat them in terms of relevance of links and additional features provided.
I'm not holding my breath though. It would be good if live search guys read this post and pay some attention. Otherwise as some other commenters posted here, microsoft will continue to deliver pink slips to people in other teams (it would eventually hit live search team too at some point, if they continue to lag).
Please eat your own dogfood. Everyone ate your Exchange, Win, and Office dogfood so return the favor. That goes for the Zune and WinMo and all the other smaller segments we have dipped our toes in. Use them and help improve them.
Here's one:
If you search for "kb 810886" (note the space), search.live.com will display the following advertisement.
"Kb
Save on Kb and More! Buy, Bid, or Make an Offer now!
www.ebaymotors.com""Kelly Blue Book" is "kbb"; not "kb". Even if search is using "kb" as a misspelling of "kbb", I would want to "Save on cars" and not "Save on Kb".
If you search for "kb810886" (no space), search.live.com will not display the advertisement.
With "kb 810886" or "kb810886", it would make more sense to display an advertisement from Microsoft:
"OMG!! "kb810886" does not apply to Vista and Windows Server 2008!! Buy today."
Just for fun, send a few emails to mswish@microsoft.com (assuming it is stil there) with bug reports and feature suggestions.
See if they ever reach your bug database.
If you're about to say, "The proper way to report a bug is to call Microsoft product support.", they charge you for the call and then, if they agree what you found is a bug, refund your money. No thanks. I'm doing you a favor by reporting it.
Reporting Bugs to Microsoft
Report a Microsoft Product Bug
"So please, let the whole "kill Xbox" rest. We should have killed Xbox 5 years ago, we should NOT kill it today because the landscape has changed and it's finally a strong product with a strong future. Get it?"
Should have never started it, actually. "Strong product with a strong future" make be the kind of warm and fuzzy bs that Robbie relies on to keep his job, but real business people and investors make decisions based on quantifiable results. Specifically, a business capable of generating if not MS historical margins, at least premium ones that justify the extra risk, cost, time, MS took entering a new area it knew nothing about. Since the logical alternative was (and is) to expand further within the software vertical where net margins of 20-25% are commonplace, there's your bar. So what's the ETA on that for Xbox?
Yup, I was one of the ones hit last week. In our small group I knew of 2 PMs, 2 Ops, and 1 art director who got cut. There were others but due to the lack of communication, I don't know who they were specifically.
Positions were eliminated and not "people" per se as one of the people was a 25 year veteran. Really sad.
I'm just getting out of shock. I couldn't believe that the job I thought about 24/7 had been taken away from me in a moment. I sort of still don't.
My manager was upset to let me and another direct go. This somehow made it slightly less insulting.
For me, I'm from Canada and so now I have to worry about whether to move home, or try to stay here, or what. (That's for all of you lunatics who think that no H1-B's get cut.) It's a lot of stress and worry.
It's disgusting that a company that has billions in the bank and makes money is laying people off. They are ruining lives for no reason. I know I'll end up fine as I'm young and single, but I do feel bad for people with families.
They told my ex-group that they won't get hit next time as they were hit this time. Hopefully no one believes that ridiculousness. Clearly, anyone is vulnerable any time.
Enjoy the sword of Damocles, I really don't think it's going anywhere.
"Please eat your own dogfood. Everyone ate your Exchange, Win, and Office dogfood so return the favor. That goes for the Zune and WinMo and all the other smaller segments we have dipped our toes in. Use them and help improve them."
This presupposes that the groups actually take feedback and make improvements. Very few actually do, so unless I see serious evidence to the contrary, I'll spend my own money where I see fit.
This also presupposes that I consider the garbage made in other divisions to be MY dogfood, and in a 100,000 person company I certainly don't. We make hundreds of products and services, most of which have nothing to do with me.
I don't *like* Zune, and I have no stake in that product other than the fact that it's produced by Microsoft. Microsoft is the size of a medium city, and I feel no more kinship with the crappy products we make in other divisions than I feel for the things other people in Seattle make. The company is simply too big for everyone to dogfood everything we do.
Zune people should eat their own dogfood to make their products better because they've chosen to work there and they have the power to change what they don't like. I have not chosen to work in Zune and don't have any ability to get things changed, so guilting me into eating their dogfood is just a hateful way to force me into using something I don't like and can't change.
I will use my own product because it's the right thing to do. Asking me to brand my entire life Microsoft when I prefer other options is the WRONG thing to do.
I have been with MS for over 19 years. I have been a manager for much of that time and many employees on key projects left over the years. Ummm... Sorry to say this, but you sound precisely like the kind of management that Microsoft has become top-heavy with, and is therefore bringing this company down. You clearly havent' as yet realized that for the best and brightest, it isn't about the money, titles, etc., but about doing something worthwhile in a great environment with great people.
>> The doing away with the Response Point team is completely bizarre.
This was a team that built and released 1.0 within 2 years, and rapidly shipped 2 service packs within a year. If that isn't agility within MS, I don't know what is. Along the way they received rave reviews including being one of only 4 MS products to win Infoworld's 2009 Technology of the Year Award. There was even a reversal of roles where MS was taking the lead over the open source guys, for a change: Asterisk-based FreePBX clones Microsoft Response Point's Easy ButtonResponse Point appeared to be navigating the disruptive technology curve, but was stopped short.
Like I said, bizzare. Also, why do I get the feeling that John Chambers of Cisco is feeling a little relieved these days?This is not about agility or innovation. RP didn't make enought money. Gurdeep seized the opportunity to kill RP in the 2nd round of layoff. Gurdeep had 700 people but OCS couldn't get the same kind of awards delivered by a team of 30 people. How did Gurdeep feel? Craig Mundie is no match of Gurdeep in terms of political tricks... What made it worse is Sanjay never cared about RP in the first place. RP was the victim of Gurdeep/Elop jealosy and XD/Sanjay incompetence... Ballmer is ultimately responsble of his failure of protecting the young startup.
WTF, why not just cut once, cut deep? I guess this just shows how imcompetent the leadership team really is! No vision, no guts and no hearts!
Yikes, David Vaskevitch's org took it up the pooper last week. He's just got a few folks as reports now and is parked under Muglia.
Looks like his slide-ware gravy train derailed. Finally.
Are you saying that since the creation of the xbox or xbox 360, that the money that has come in has now exceeded the money that was spent on its development? No one said that. If you account for all investments not recovered the XBox is probably still in the hole. However, it now profitable going forward. Month after month it is making money and if you count XBox Live, a lot of money.
Years down the road people will probably claim it is a cash cow that Microsoft just stole. All the investment, time and effort won't be remembered. Just like Windows or Office.
More head scratching stuff. I was one of the people "let go" on Tuesday, and am a senior SDET. I'm in the above average performance bucket. In doing informationals across teams in the company, the picture that is emerging is that there are teams just dying for good experienced SDETs. Would it not have been easier/cheaper/better to allow people to transition to other teams, instead of this mass massacre that was Tuesday, May 5th? Something just doesn't connect.
"The doing away with the Response Point team is completely bizarre."
I think XD should be fully accountable for the failure. XD is very creative. He is also one of the best people managers I have ever had for my years at MS. His technical depth and his ability to innovate earned him the respect from everyone around him. I think he is a very small number of MS GMs who can walk the walk, not just talk the talk. That said, XD is not a sales guy. XD didn't get much help from MS to help him market the new Response Point product. The reality is that XD's business caliber is not as good as his product/technical IQ. This is one of the key reasons why Response Point didn't scale in terms of $$$.
This is going to be insensitive - but whoever gets laid off from Microsoft should see that as a blessing in disguise.Morbid joke overheard in the cafeteria that serves Zuners:
"Q: What's the difference between having Zune on your resume and a DUI on your driving record?
"A: A good lawyer can get rid of the DUI."
I work for Zune. After I got sick over that joke, I found it actually pretty funny.
"The depressing fact is that the creative and hardworking people are gone. The people who played 'Yes' to SanjayP and staff and added no value remain. So Sad."
Agreed. MS's startup boss SanjayP has a GM on strategy, a GM on marketing, and a GM on many things. Sanjay's central staff team is much bigger than any of his real startups. Sanjay's "head" is really heavy and huge. Most of these GMs just spend their time to guide other more experienced product GMs to do the real work. Why didn't Sanjay fire all of his central teams?
...I even scored a 4.5 merrit score which is the highest anyone can get...Nope
"Why didn't Sanjay fire all of his central teams?"
Sanjay didn't walk the talk. He said he wanted his startup GM to own everything from engineering to marketing. However, his central team is madly randomizing all of his startup leaders. Life is depressing in SBA. Craig Mundie is crazy to have Sanjay drive his startup.
Zune people should eat their own dogfood to make their products better because they've chosen to work there and they have the power to change what they don't like. I have not chosen to work in Zune and don't have any ability to get things changed, so guilting me into eating their dogfood is just a hateful way to force me into using something I don't like and can't change.Some of us at Zune have dogfeeded. ("Dogfed"?) Sometimes our suggestions have been taken, especially when they are minor ones. Others are ignored. Basic, yet highly important, structural operations that would at least put us somewhere on the same playing field as the competition are delayed for years. The Zune culture is defined by constant postponement of the most important improvements in favor of quick-fix advertising designed to drive people to a faulty product.
Some of us at Zune who are putting our souls into this thing are sick of it too. I won't guilt you into dogfooding. It doesn't make a difference.
live search, by the team, of the team, for the team, live search team's exclusive search engine!
I'm glad to hear some people talk about SBA and its VP SanjayP. People need to learn more about this mismanaged org and help to get this retard SanjayP back into a role which is more fitting, like being a hair club for men salesman.
One of the groups cut all of their employees but the PUM still somehow weaseled himself a job. What sort of message does that send about accountability? If the business fails and we keep the business leader but fire all the contributors what sort of company will be left? What happens when everybody is a partner telling people what to do and nobody is doing any fucking work?!?! What happens when we have a bunch of failed business leaders that still work in the company? Do we let them go out and fuck it up all over again?
If you also notice, SanjayP cut the 3 groups that he inherited. He kept all of the groups which are homegrown, all of which are a complete fucking joke. Seriously, name one that has any shot...
Oh, and instead of trying to recycle the existing talent, they were told there were no matching positions. If that was true then why in the fuck did SanjayP get a new project with 40 open headcount right when these other teams were cut? Are you telling me that they couldn't have given contributers from teams that were cut a chance at those jobs? What kind of piece of shit would run their business this way?
/sarcasm I think one of the benefits of being Hindu or Buddhist is that people like this can chose to pretend that there isn't a hell waiting for them. Boy are they in for a hell of a surprise! /sarcasm
Speaking of DL posts and perceived "hard working" - I know people who write a lot of DL posts and are somehow productive, during coding period I would often play pool 20% of the (bad) day myself and then log on from home at night to make up for it. Sometimes people have quiet period after the release or whatever. Sometimes management might make a blunder so there's no work to be done and people goof off on ping pong and prototyping random stuff.
Measure expected vs actual results, not some perceptions...
If you account for all investments not recovered the XBox is probably still in the hole. However, it now profitable going forward.
Good lord you XBox people are dense. Don't you understand the point?
The XBox 360 is a product with an expiration date. At some point in the next few years it will be supplanted by a new generation of hardware. The thing is, barring a miracle the XBox 360 just like its predecessor will not recoup its costs in its lifetime.
Competing for the next generation will cost MSFT additional capital. Will you be successful this time? There is no guarantee. The claims from your leadership about "having learned so much" are pure BS. Your problems with optical drives on the first xbox didn't help you avoid the RRoD trap on the 360. Most likely you'll screw up something else next time. And as both Sony's and Nintendo's examples show success or failure during one hardware cycle is no indication of what will happen in the following cycle.
I totally admit that the XBox 360 is generally a successful product. But as successful as it is MS will still be unable to make money off of it. Can you imagine if you guys had had a flop like Nintendo did with the Gamecube? The losses would be astronomical.
MS' cost structure and corporate culture are particularly ill suited for low margin products like gaming hardware. Get over it and move on.
Does anyone have tips for FTEs who are in the process of being "managed out", with performance improvement plans, poor reviews, and constant nit-picking on everything they do?
I have heard lots of discussion about how people should handle being laid-off, but very little comment around what those who are fired for ostensible performance reasons need to think about (of whom there are quite a few these days).
Is there anything that a person in this kind of situation can do to make the inevitable termination day go any smoother? Is there anything worth trying to negotiate for, or are performance-related terminations pretty much cut-and dry, with no flexibility on terms regardless of tenure, etc?
Is it better to voluntarily resign if you know a termination is likely? Should you just sign the NDA documents they hand you on your exit meeting with HR?
[i]More head scratching stuff. I was one of the people "let go" on Tuesday, and am a senior SDET. I'm in the above average performance bucket. In doing informationals across teams in the company, the picture that is emerging is that there are teams just dying for good experienced SDETs. Would it not have been easier/cheaper/better to allow people to transition to other teams, instead of this mass massacre that was Tuesday, May 5th? Something just doesn't connect.[/i]
Exactly why many won't stay with said company. The tiers within the orgs have no idea (really) how good someone is.. Easier to meet the mandate by cutting groups loose than figure out that some should transition.
But that begs back to the issue at heart.
This is no longer the company you kill yourself for. It is just a place to work.
I will always miss those 98, 2000, XP shipping periods... That was fun, crazy, insane and generally a blast. It was college on crack.
Now...
It is managing up on qualudes.
Sometimes our suggestions have been taken, especially when they are minor ones. Others are ignored. Basic, yet highly important, structural operations that would at least put us somewhere on the same playing field as the competition are delayed for years.
There was a TV commercial (IBM maybe) many years ago where the people in the company were sitting around a large conference table and the boss was asking them how to solve a problem. The geek sitting next to the boss makes a suggestion which everybody in the meeting ignores; not even acknowledging the guy exists. The boss immediately repeats the idea as his own and everybody is falling over themselves to praise what a wonderful idea it is.
Here's how I've seen it work at Microsoft:
1) Person A makes a feature suggestion in your bug database.
2) It gets "postponed".
3) Bug database fills up.
4) When reloading the database, a lot of postponed items get dropped on the floor "because they're old".
5) Years later person B, who saved that nugget, makes the same suggestion. Everybody says "Brilliant. Let's do it.".
Has it been between 2 or 3 years yet and the idea is no longer in your database? If so, someone is about to make a brilliant suggestion.
Please eat your own dogfood. Everyone ate your Exchange, Win, and Office dogfood so return the favor. That goes for the Zune and WinMo and all the other smaller segments we have dipped our toes in. Use them and help improve themI'd rather eat real dogfood.
Yet, my manager came to talk to me today about… JOB SECURITY!Is that the best that manager had got?? What a lame a$$. Good that you're moving forward. He certainly is not managerial stuff.
Does anyone have tips for FTEs who are in the process of being "managed out", with performance improvement plans, poor reviews, and constant nit-picking on everything they do?
I have seen a few people in that situation over the years. I think you kind of know the answer - the writing is on the wall. You are in the process of being "managed out". Once started, this process is very hard to reverse.
My advice to you is to start looking for a job elsewhere. Dont wait. If you land a job - delay joining by a month or two. Stop working at MS altogather - so that they hasten your "managing out" process. You will 2 weeks of severance pay for every year worked at ms (at least that is what people got back in the day). Even if you dont get severance pay, it will be a good month or two of "vacation time" before you join your next job. Your manager is giving you a hard time lately, why not return the favor.
This is no longer the company you kill yourself for. It is just a place to work.
And that is the bottom line in nutshell.
If all the posts and responses from this site were to be compiled into a report, what our esteemed colleague has written here would serve nicely as the executive summary.
Maybe even give us a new tagline:
Microsoft: Just a Place to Work
Does anyone have tips for FTEs who are in the process of being "managed out", with performance improvement plans, poor reviews, and constant nit-picking on everything they do?
If you get a performance related e-mail that you need immediate improvement to avoid termination then it is very natural that they will show you door within 2/3 weeks. Working very hard will not change your fate. The management is very reluctant to find another target to fire. They will fire you for whatever the reason is. The best thing you can do is to resign from the position and look for another oppurtunity outside Microsoft. You can also stay until your job termination. In that case you need to be prepared to leave any time. Specially back up your personal items,e-mails,contacts etc. When they fire you, you will lose your access immediately. And performance related cut are pretty rude. I think they do not pay you anything like severance. BTW these suggestions are based on the experiences of mine and other people in similar condition. If you have good relation with your manager than the termination can be more humane. But I presume most of the people get 10% review because they are not in a good relation with their managers.
I will use my own product because it's the right thing to do.When I was at MS, I was told that the MS Project team didn't even use MS Project to schedule their project!
Does anyone have tips for FTEs who are in the process of being "managed out", with performance improvement plans, poor reviews, and constant nit-picking on everything they do?
Yes. Start preparing yourself for life after Microsoft NOW, because there is nothing you can do so save your ass. If you are indeed being "managed out" or they're setting you up for termination, the die was cast a long time ago, your fate has been sealed, and there is nothing you can do to change that now.
Is there anything that a person in this kind of situation can do to make the inevitable termination day go any smoother?
Have your office tidied up, cleaned out, and copy all the stuff you would want BEFORE the dreaded day arrives, because you may have no more than a few minutes (literally) to gather your coat and only the possessions you can carry, as security escorts you to the door. You may not be allowed to touch your computer, so don't count on being able to grab some files or send a goodbye email. Make sure you have your network in place BEFORE you get the bum's rush, because it will be more difficult to reconstruct that after you've been tarred with the scarlet letter.
Is there anything worth trying to negotiate for, or are performance-related terminations pretty much cut-and dry, with no flexibility on terms regardless of tenure, etc?
There's nothing to negotiate. There are no "terms". You're fired, you're escorted to your office to pick up your things, and you're walked to the door. That's all there is to it.
Is it better to voluntarily resign if you know a termination is likely? Should you just sign the NDA documents they hand you on your exit meeting with HR?
Do not resign (or "quit") ahead of the termination. If you quit voluntarily, you are not eligible for unemployment. If you're fired for performance reasons, you should still be able to collect your $500/week unemployment benefits (and while that might not sound like much right now, but it beats getting nothing a week).
If you think you're about to be canned, you should have all your ducks in a row NOW because the day that you get put out the door will probably come "out of the blue."
Good luck.
SteveB made it simple and clear. BillG era is over. Any new startup that didn't make money would be scaled down. Home Server, Response Point, Surface... were all impacted. SteveB simply may not have BillG's patience. He forgot that MSR originally wanted to incubate Google-like search in 1998, but the company vetoed the proposal. BillG supported a number of startups. However, it is SteveB who makes the call now.
"Does anyone have tips for FTEs who are in the process of being "managed out", ....Is it better to voluntarily resign if you know a termination is likely? Should you just sign the NDA documents they hand
you on your exit meeting with HR?"
Don't resign let them dismiss you for "job performance expectations" and get the unemployment and US Govt Cobra subsidy. You will be told you are rehirable (as if you would even want to be - what a joke!). No docs to sign on exit. Keep convo to minimum in exit interview, What you say can later be used against you.
Be very careful not to break some company policy as this would be with cause and jeopardize entitlement to unemployment benefits.
So tow the line - do the best you can do in the situation - and start looking for your new job.
Look at the whole thing as a stepping stone your next great opportunity. Move on, move up and don't even looking back.
Just one clarification: someone upthread a bit talked about the "severance package" for those who are terminated/managed out.
If you are terminated or managed out, you will get NO severance. Zip, zero, nada.
Severance packages are for those who are laid off - as part of a formal, group layoff. If you're targeted for individual dismissal, you get nothing. Really.
Microsoft: Just a Place to Work
Could not agree more. In the 90's Microsoft was the best place the work on the planet.
Starting around 2000 (when Ballmer was named CEO, ?coincidence?) MS became just a place to work. Not worth any personal or family sacrifice , and will remain just that unless there are major and significant changes at the top. They can fire and layoff as many low-level people as they can - that won't change anything.
SteveB simply may not have BillG's patience. He forgot that MSR originally wanted to incubate Google-like search in 1998, but the company vetoed the proposal.SteveB is not a bad visionary himself, actually. Way back in 2000, he was pushing for software-as-a-service . He moved office to RedWest and tried to push for this paradigm shift within the company, and failed. The dunderheads at MSN (GM level most of them) just didn't get it. There were too busy building empires, protecting turf, and plumping their bank accounts. Then the DOJ thing happened. And Steve lost his way. There is a time and place for every leader. Steve's time for MS was taking us past the $ billion mark with Win95. I still remember his tears-of-joy at the company meeting in '96 announcing the fact that MS had crossed the $ billion mark, in a big way.
Right now we need to get back to our roots as a technology company. We need a cutting edge visionary to give MS back it's mojo. The troops are there, but with severe morale issues. Steve needs a strong right-brainer to help him, again. BillG is clearly too busy eradicating malaria and poverty, which is where he should be. Where's Ozzie these days?
We can learn a few things from the Japanese.
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/new-toyota-chief-to-purge-executives-report
Don't recall seeing this; sorry if it's a repeat.
According to the VP, GFS underwent a 10% cut, and management says no more will be needed.
Of course, who can trust that? Given the others saying that FY10 headcount will have a 10% cut, I guess more will be let go at the end of the year via performance reviews or restructuring.
He forgot that MSR originally wanted to incubate Google-like search in 1998, but the company vetoed the proposal. BillG supported a number of startups. However, it is SteveB who makes the call now.
SteveB did support one startup 'Red Dog' - Windows Azure is Ray Ozzie's vision for Microsoft - get into cloud computing before Amazon or Google are entrenched.
Cloud computing makes it possible for someone who can't afford a data center to build a large scale service. Since there's more than one cloud service and more than one grid hosting service, you don't have to worry about running it on your former employer's cloud when you start your own startup.
It could be something like online medical practice management or whatever you want. No permission from SteveB required if you start your own company.
Ray Ozzie Wants to Push Microsoft Back Into Startup Mode - page 7
Maybe the most subversive aspect of Microsoft's newest operating system is that it was produced with a fraction of the manpower the company usually directs to critical projects. "There are literally thousands of people on Windows, but small groups with very focused people is a better way of doing things," Cutler says. "So this project is much smaller. It's like 150."
Red Dog, available late next year, will have competition, of course, from Amazon and most certainly Google, whose own cloud OS, App Engine, will offer developers similar hosting benefits at lower cost or even for nothing. But Debra Chrapaty, the Microsoft exec in charge of the company's data centers, says that Microsoft's infrastructure is so efficient it can compete in cost even with a company she refers to by the letter G. (She refuses to speak its name out loud because "every time you say that word, it reinforces their brand," she says.)
Ray Ozzie Wants to Push Microsoft Back Into Startup Mode - page 8
To Ozzie, software's soul does not lie in the accumulation of features. Instead, it lies in his dream of connectivity. "Live Mesh is very Ray," Mitch Kapor says. "It's the son of Groove, which is the son of Notes." Which was, of course, the son of Ozzie's beloved Plato. Thirty-three years later, Ozzie is still trying to build on what he saw in sophomore year. But it's no longer the Ray Ozzie vision. It's Microsoft's.
Microsoft: "Just a Place to Work"
Nice tagline :). Or maybe it can be enhanced to:
Microsoft: "Just a Place to Work before your next job"
>>Good lord you XBox people are dense. Don't you understand the point?<<
I don't get this at all, by your logic Google should abandon Youtube since that thing will likely never be profitable.
Idiotic.
msft stock is back in 20s. Any suggestions on when a realtive high might be hit or in other words what would be the best time to sell it in next 1 year? Around win7 release??
Got a bunch of shares from espp, that i need to sell soon.
One thing I haven't heard people discuss much is the huge impact that Microsoft's misguided hiring frenzy has had on this area. The rub is that its obsessive derangement jacked up home prices, daycare, and a bevy of goods and services. Some schools have become overcrowded, and many public events are no longer fun to attend. No wonder many people in the local area dislike softies, especially considering the privileged and clannish ways of some. Many people in our community with average salaries, such as teachers, have been forced into long commutes because of inflated prices closer to core areas.
The influx of people inflated costs and decreased spending power. Even after the nationwide housing crash, some day-to-day costs are higher here. Furthermore, people are finding themselves in houses in need of upgrade or repair (all they could afford in closer and/or desirable areas) or with a still sucky commute.
This rant is not just about impact on material goods, but lifestyle as well. There's time and energy commuting, working weird hours to minimize commutes, putting in long hours at work and home to make sense of the overlap and noise (v-teams, hundreds of e-mails, etc), stressing about the never-ending predatory review system, and so on.
If mere mortals at Microsoft (or any company) wanted to live closer in, and avoid egregious commutes, most had to buy crappy houses in recent years. It was hard to afford to repairs and upgrades, because of the inflated construction rates (thanks to demand from Microsoft partners with McMansions, thank you very much). Even with the depressed economy, construction is still high here.
People who couldn't afford to live closer are dealing with laborious commutes. In some cases, though, the further you are from core areas, the more vulnerable you are to the housing bubble. I know housing prices are a nationwide issue, but Microsoft's misguided hiring fed the local frenzy.
I feel for people who moved here in recent years and paid inflated housing rates. The alternatives of living in apartments weren't that great either. This especially sucks for people who've been laid off and might suddenly have to sell their homes. I'm also worried about the rest of us; if Ballmer keeps up his Failapalooza, housing prices might worsen more long-term.
I wish this were just H20 under the congested 520, but the high costs of MSFT's oversight remain. On top of that, people are worried about home values, and whether they will be picked next out of the herd, especially since performing well doesn't get you out of the gunsights. The next statement is targeted toward senior management, and not toward individuals who help the community or managers who take good care of their teams:
Adding value to the area and fostering employee loyalty = #MSFTSrMgtFail.
I want my broadband back!!! Keep the Starbucks machines, wiFi buses, and towels at the Pro Club.
This has officially gone too far. There are hundreds of other perks and wasteful spending that could/should be cut before our ISP budgets. How about MGX and the Company Meeting? There is no way that those two money pits make the company more productive than the ISP budgets.
This is no longer the company you kill yourself for. It is just a place to work. Sometimes, the simple comments are the most effective. As a previous poster said, this comment really does sum up the entire situation quite nicely.
Sucks, but that's where we are at. :-(
Did anyone hear what the final number of layoffs were? I work in Fargo. Has anyone heard how many were laid off here? This was big news locally back in January, but nary a word mentioned this time around.
I did hear that an office in one of the Carolinas lost 70 out of 90 people.
"BillG supported a number of startups. However, it is SteveB who makes the call now."
SteveB was meant to be making the call, with board support, since 2000. What's changed is that SteveB is now less worried about pissing off Bill, and more concerned that his legacy is going to be, deservedly, "the CEO who buried a monopoly".
125 were fired from MSIT India in the recent firing spree out of approx 1100.
"Good lord you XBox people are dense. Don't you understand the point?"
XBox is like the spoiled rich kid whose dad pays his credit card bills for him. Unless dad gets tough, and stops bailing him out all the time, his son won't figure out the consequences of wasteful spending until it's too late.
seriously, where is Search going?
Yesterday is the 2nd wave cutoff date for China Employee. Local team forced 33% FTE quit company. If nominated people signed layoff paper no later than last Friday, they will get N+4, otherwise, they only get N. Unforturnately, if they were V- or supplimental before, then 'N' only means your FTE period. Almost all the cutoffed services for MS more than 10 years. That's shock. I am one of left MS yesterday.
"The doing away with the Response Point team is completely bizarre.
I think XD should be fully accountable for the failure."
This is not fair. Guy Kawasaki said $$$ were mostly due to luck :-) The fact XD's team won the best phone award from InforWorld did speak for the caliber of XD's team.
Didn't SanjayP have his central team helping XD to make $$? SanjayP is a business guy. What did SanjayP do in the past year? Sanjay didn't give JohnFre/XD a chance to show that Response Point could be a solid business for Microsoft. Sanjay was only good at abusing his own people but SanjayP has been helpless to protect the team. He is powerless facing the challenges from Gurdeep Pall - the boss of OCS team. We all know that Gurdeep Pall is the real reason for Response Point's failure. He and his team have been very jealous of Response Point. Gurdeep wanted to cover his own ass. He has over 700 people but couldn't deliver the same kind of cool product that a 30-peoploe team did. Where is Gurdeep's leadership? Where SLT's leadership? Why didn't SLT fire Gurdeep?
"Why didn't SLT fire Gurdeep?"
Firing senior managers sets a dangerous precedent. Pretty soon someone starts asking why SLT hasn't been fired as well, especially given the greater abundance of grounds. Better to get rid of flunkies.
"Way back in 2000, he was pushing for software-as-a-service . He moved office to RedWest and tried to push for this paradigm shift within the company, and failed."
Those two links are amazing. While most think Steveb is too clueless to notice the problems and opportunities facing the company, those articles make it clear that he not only does, but anticipated them back in 2000. He just couldn't move the organization. I don't know if that makes me feel better or worse about the company's prospects. It's scary to think he's been trying to turn this ship for 9 years unsucessfully.
Fascinating Business Week story, How the Mighty Fall: A Primer on the Warning Signs (by the author of Good to Great). Seems to describe the decline of Microsoft. Is Microsoft in stage 4?
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/09_21/b4132026786379.htm?chan=top+news_top+news+index+-+temp_top+story
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Whilst Microsoft India has fired over 500 employees in India, it is going and hiring from business schools, and offering TOP SALARIES! Its the worst kind of behaviour that Rajan Anandan and Ravi Venkatesan can exhibit. They are hiring again without consideration and offering salaries that cannot be sustained, and in the process creating a situation for further future layoffs. http://www.fms.edu/placements/finals2009.php
I don't get this at all, by your logic Google should abandon Youtube since that thing will likely never be profitable.
Idiotic.Since when is Youtube in an industry with an average five-year lifecycle requiring heavy re-investment where what happened last generation is no guarantee of what will happen in the next?
The only thing "idiotic" is your comparison. And frankly, this attitude is why Xbox is begging to get stomped in round three. The bigwigs over at MGS insist on trumpeting their position this generation as vindication of their approach and refuse to acknowledge that Sony had a massively-successful existing system to support. Due to their own epic fail in that gen, Xbox could afford to launch its successor early. Sony didn't need to cannibalize its own PS2 sales and chose not to. And while I think adding Blu-Ray to PS3 was a mistake if they wanted to win this round, it did have the end result of making Blu-Ray a success, whereas the Xbox's early launch and highly-touted beachhead in the living room wasn't enough to give HD-DVD the edge.
(Oh, and let's not forget the party line that Nintendo doesn't really do games so the massive success of the Wii "doesn't count.")
"search.live.com says Robert Owen (14 May 1771–17 November 1858), one of the founders of socialism, is for sale.
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So what? Google says the same thing! Both search engines show an ad from ebay for Robert Owen books. Maybe you should do 30 seconds of research before posting your rubbish.
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=Robert+Owen&btnG=Google+Search&aq=f&oq=Robert+Owen&fp=Q5rYJf3FIq4
Microsoft's (MSFT) Zune was launched in November 2006. The world's largest software company believed that it could compete with the Apple (AAPL) iPod, which had been in the market since 2001 and dominated the multimedia player and music download business around the world. Apple had sold well over 100 million iPods, when the Zune was launched. Microsoft was able to get the four largest music labels to sign licensing agreements with the company. Sales were dreadful during the first several months after the launch. Bloomberg Television said that between the launch date and mid-2007 only 1.2 million Zune players were sold. In May 2008, Microsoft said that it had sold two million players since its launch. The Wall Street Journal reported that revenue from the Zune player was $85 million during the 2008 holiday season compared to $185 million in the same period in 2007. Apple's iPod revenue during the last quarter of 2008 was $3.37 billion. Microsoft, which had access to as much hardware development expertise as any company in the world and the capital to support a massive marketing budget for new products failed completely in its attempt to get a large part of the iPod market.
Buy Robert owen. You may get 8% off with PayPal if eligible.
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Live Search cashbackthis is not the craziest, I have seen buy baby with XX% cashback.
Love those adcenter folks.
Fascinating Business Week story, How the Mighty Fall: A Primer on the Warning Signs (by the author of Good to Great). Seems to describe the decline of Microsoft. Is Microsoft in stage 4? My take is that MS is at Stage 3. The latest round of layoffs is a primer for "better times ahead". With a demoralized workforce, shrinking market share, and no change in management or leadership attitudes, the slide will only continue.
While on the topic of layoffs, check out this CEO who explicitly plans for to avoid layoffs, during good times!
Ballmer was pushing "software as a service" back in 2000. This is not to be confused with "online services." He wanted to charge everybody in the world a monthly fee to use Windows and Office--a lame idea that's the opposite of visionary. I don't recall anybody during that era talking about providing *actual* online/computing services like Google, Salesforce, S3, etc.
Non-compete question How anal is MSFT in enforcing non-competes? I am looking at leaving in another few months and I am already getting good feelers from competitors in the area that I am working in. By no means am I a big fish, which is why I don't think MSFT can clobber me with a non-compete. By the way, I had read that in an arms-length negotiation where signing the non-compete is the only way for a peon like me to get the offer, non-competes are essentially non-reinforcable. The law also varies from state to state. Anyway, can someone who has unfortunately gotten laid off recently or has left the company share their experiences related to non-competes? Does the ugly face of management come up when you resign? Is there any law that I have to show my new offer letter to these morons?
If the post at 8:10 is correct, it really is time we took a hard look at the Indian sub.
No-one believes their metrics, not many trust their work, and their management seems to have lost touch with reality.
Time to turn out the lights, lock the doors, and move the work to a country with better ethics.
So what? Google says the same thing! Both search engines show an ad from ebay for Robert Owen books. Maybe you should do 30 seconds of research before posting your rubbish.
It should then be "Buy Robert Owen books" instead of "Buy Robert owen".
Because Google has the same mistake, you say "So what?".
Microsoft copies Google right down to their bugs? How did you manage to do that?
If you've forgotten, the idea is to show an advertisement someone thinks is relevant.
Why don't you fix your bug instead of defending it?
You provided a good example of what is wrong with Microsoft. Thanks.
Fascinating Business Week story, How the Mighty Fall: A Primer on the Warning Signs (by the author of Good to Great). Seems to describe the decline of Microsoft. Is Microsoft in stage 4?Great article. I'd say Microsoft is at Stage 3, just look at how the company handled the Vista debacle
In Stage 3, leaders discount negative data, amplify positive data, and put a positive spin on ambiguous dataYep, that the Vista story alright
And now we seem to be heading towards Stage 4 where a big acquisition (Yahoo?, SAP?, others?), blockbuster products (Win7,Kumo) are seen as silver bullets.
Once you start on the slippery slope of layoffs as a strategy instead of focusing on building great products that people want to buy and use, there is no turning back.
No-one believes their metrics, not many trust their work, and their management seems to have lost touch with reality.Agreed. I was in a team which constantly reviewed work coming out of IDC. They have no concept of quality control. Furthermore, they try to pin the blame on someone else when there is a real issue.
The five stages of corporate decline.
Stage 1--hubris. Check! Microsoft passed this one long ago.
Stage 2--undisciplined pursuit of more. Hell yes. Think Zune, XBox, Search, ..... It's an endless list.
Stage 3--denial of risk and peril. Those in charge ar taking outsized risks and denying the consequences of those risks. Who can remember aQuantive? Zune? Yes, definitely there. Can anyone remember a time the SLT admitted making a mistake and took responsibility like adults?
Stage 4--grasping for salvation. Everything will be great if we just buy Great Plains/Groove/Massive/aQuantive/Multimap/Fast/Powerset/Yahoo. Yes.
Stage 5--capitulation to irrelevance or death. Does the change in partner payouts represent capitulation? Does the desire to buy search at Yahoo instead of building it organically represent capitulation? What does the strange destruction of FlightSim signify? "The longer a company remains in Stage 4, repeatedly grasping for silver bullets, the more likely it will spiral downward." Is it time to stop grasping?
"You people are crazy volunteering a pay cut. Good luck with that - I bust my ass at this job and am keeping every cent. The thought of taking a pay cut and protecting some slacker - what are you smoking??"
1. I expect this is some dork that doesn't really work at Microsoft and it just stirring up idiocy.
2. If by some chance this person really does work at Microsoft, then hopefully you get laid off one day to experience what it's like and find out what kind of "slacker" you are. Implying all the people laid off are slackers is short sided and full of flawed thinking. But then again, maybe you're the one responsible for the bugs we keep seeing.
The reality is that really solid people got laid off. If there wasn't a hiring freeze many would have actually found jobs in other parts of the company.
about this comment: I have been with MS for over 19 years. I have been a manager for much of that time...If you read this blog you would guess they were acting morally valid but MS is an evil corporation... If you want some type of guaranteed employment you may consider a government job or even better move to some socialist EU country.
The corp isn't evil, it's just filled with people that don't give a crap about others - people like... you. I hope I never someone uncaring as you for a manager. The point is simple - there's tons of money in the bank, enough to weather the storm, so don't fire people who are good people just to save costs, because that is what is happening. It's not letting go of dead wood - at least not 100%.
There are certainly people who aren't or weren't cutting it. Many are still there. The process was stupid. Perhaps Layoffs 3.0 will actually have it figured out.
While on the topic of layoffs, check out this CEO who explicitly plans for to avoid layoffs, during good times!
WOW, we need Jack Stack to come in and clean house at MSFT!!!!! That man knows how to run a business!!!
"The bigwigs over at MGS insist on trumpeting their position this generation as vindication of their approach and refuse to acknowledge that Sony had a massively-successful existing system to support. Due to their own epic fail in that gen..."Xbox gen 1 was never slated to be profitable, but it moved a shit-ton of units, established Microsoft as a first-class player in the console space and allowed us to kick Sony's ass in gen 2.
You might also think about what's happening now in the console space: it's much less about the box and much more about online services, so you're seeing console generational lifespans increasing as people focus less on the raw horsepower and more on what people can do online... and in the online space, we are kicking everyone else's asses by a *massive* margin.
Please give it up -- Xbox is not the droid you're looking for. Try Zune.
*move the work to a country with better ethics*
erm, that would surely exclude the USA - it's not like you never gave us Enron, Iraq's WMD, and of course our latest favourite...(oops, favorite)...the sub-prime mortgage fiasco. Not everyone lives by the MSFT values of honesty and accountability...oh wait....nor does SteveB, KevinT, LisaB, and most of the knife-fighting type-A personalities. Reminds me about what Obelix used to say of the Romans...
Cut 80% AdCenter, specifically prinicipal to GM of the dev team - true blessing for ms.
Alexgo was sent in to fix adcenter, but he got lost.
Xbox gen 1 was never slated to be profitable.
According to whom? Is this written down anywhere pre-2001/2002? I went to a bunch of XBox 1 presentations before it was released and everybody was positively giddy about how much profit was going to be made via royalties on games and accessories.
adcenter === idc redmond
Does anyone have tips for FTEs who are in the process of being "managed out", with performance improvement plans, poor reviews, and constant nit-picking on everything they do?
I was in the same shoes. And before we get the hard core MS culture people saying "10 percenters deserve it", my marketing programs results were through the roof, my stakeholders, co-workers and other partners sung my praises, and I was the most experienced on my team. But the marketing director, promoted two levels above her competency had me targeted for quite some time. I don't know why, but I do know that there were half a dozen smart and hard people people down this path before me. I kept thinking that I could fix it with working hard and delivering great results. Yes, stupidity on my part. When I got the email threatening termination, I resigned, quite a scary thing to do in this economic climate. Less than two months later, I landed a great job in a growing company with smart leadership and very little politics (compared to MS). I've been there a few weeks and according to my new boss, I'm already on the road to rockstar performer.
Lesson? Resign now -- why wait for the final humiliation? Leave with your head held high. You won't get unemployment or severance anyway -- so take the dignity route. There are jobs out there, harder to get, yes - but they're there. And I've discovered that not only is there a life after Microsoft, but it's so much better in every way!
To person getting "managed out": one thing to do is take care of yourself, your physical and mental health. I didn't do this and felt I was having a breakdown due to the daily anxiety and constant criticism. Once you are healthy, you'll be able to make better choices based on reality and not fear. Another point: you may delay being let go, but eventually you will be let go, because there are no factors that will work in your favor. Take home any valuables in your office and back up any personal documents and e-mail. Better yet, remove anything you care about from your work computer now. You don't want anyone browsing through your personal documents later.
The thing about layoffs is that there was a differnece in ICs and managers. i worked in ISD for 10 years as SDET and was a victim of the first round in January. But I hear there is a Test Manager who was removed from his duties recently but is still being emplyed without any responsibilities. Why this diffference in firing ICs and Managers.
RE: the Robert Owen ads:
Google ads I know for sure, and probably MS ads from what I'm reading, allow for the construction of ads that automatically "fill in the blank" in the ad text with a prime keyword from a page.
The whole
Looking for [x]?
Find it on eBay
thing is the result of some affiliate gold-miner out there creating ads for keyword [x], not Google or MS doing it themselves.
The page the ad appeared on probably had "Robert Owen" as a keyword, not "Robert Owen books."
Yeah, you probably knew all this, but I thought it better to be precise about why ads like that appear on both systems. It's not the systems themselves; it's how affiliates are creating ads on the systems.
Whether an ad platform should be smart enough to know when [x] is the name of a person who has written books, or made movies, or produced albums, etc., I'll leave that question up to more technical minds.
who cares if a manager is caring or not, that is irrelevant.
What really scares me is that people in the upper echelon seem clueless. I work in Search. We don't lack bright minds here, not at the IC level. I don't know about the management level.
Everybody in the upper echelon comes to the table with an agenda. That is fine. That is expected. But nobody these days know how to get things done, and how to get them done well anymore.
Is Bill Gates giving up on MS, is that why he opted out? :)
Also, anybody here knows about Satya Nadella? What has he done before Search. What type of leadership has he provided in his previous group? Is he effective as a manager?
"Xbox gen 1 was never slated to be profitable.
According to whom? Is this written down anywhere pre-2001/2002? I went to a bunch of XBox 1 presentations before it was released and everybody was positively giddy about how much profit was going to be made via royalties on games and accessories."
We went to some very different presentations then -- and I went to most of them, so I'm curious about which ones you attended.
Xbox 1 was always *heavily* caveated prior to launch as our opening salvo into the console market, and our strategy was always around profiting from games and services -- a strategy that nobody believed would result in being in the black for the first generation.
I never heard anyone in any official capacity in the Xbox 1 timeframe ever become giddy with the notion of anything other than the potential for what we could do in the current generation and beyond.
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