Spitfire Backfire, Live Labs, and Not My 1,400
Here's a quick post before next Thursday's quarterly results. Given the layoffs in the last quarterly results I know there is some increased anxiety about any additional cost cutting Mr. Ballmer might be ready to unleash, like more staff reductions or, you know, "Hey congratulations on entering RC and all. Now... about that next release and, well, you specifically..."
Mr. Joseph Tartakoff over at paidContent has a post around further reductions: Microsoft Still On Track To Cut Another 3,600 Jobs.
Contrition time for me: last post I shared how amazed I was that everyone in the 1,400 that I knew or that were in my extended network got rehired. Pretty much the feedback I heard here and on Twitter was, "Wow, you're one lousy sample set," because a number of you are either in the non-presently-Microsoftie 1,400 or know plenty of people in that pool.
I wish I could blame it on drinking too much at Spitfire but, (1) it wasn't opened yet, and (2) it will never be opened thanks to the brazenly stupid idea to have it planned and ready to go for what seems like the better part of a year and then three days before it was to open, Microsoft yanks the rug out from under Spitfire and thirsty Microsoftie patrons.
You know, if upfront the Senior Leadership Team had decided that a bar was an interesting idea but didn't make sense for Microsoft I would have just shrugged and scooted over to a Mustard Seed, had I even heard of the idea. But to have this set up for so long with curious expectations building in Redmond and then to have a last minute revelation and cancelling Spitfire really calls into question basic judgment and execution abilities.
So-- what, what's that? Hmm, checking in over at the Bring Spitfire back to Microsoft Facebook group (http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=70887074034) it appears Spitfire is on track to open at the end of the month? From Jonathan Sposato:
thx for everyone's support! OK there's GOOD NEWS today; the spitfire has reached an agreement in principal with msft to open on the west commons campus later this month : ) over the last few days, both parties re-engaged and worked creatively to find a way to deliver on a great spitfire experience on campus.
('scuse me while I tweet that.) Great! Allow me to raise a glass. Now I'm vaguely curious to know about all the soap-opera court-intrigue going on behind the scenes here. And I can cancel my idea for a BYOB + Towel Commons protest.
Update: well, not so fast, you twittering fool. Looks like the compromise is pretty extreme, in that drinks will only be served for scheduled special events. Hmm. More by Mr. Todd Bishop here: Microsoft revives Spitfire pub under compromise arrangement.
One last thing: Live Labs recently restructured, with some projects going forward and others getting the axe and the researchers being repurposed into groups like Mobile and Search. I've only had superficial dealings with Live Labs folks and I found them very refreshing compared to other teams in research I had planned with: a sort of practicality that was uncommon. To add a few more words here, we'll end with a special guest writer reflection on the recent Live Labs happenings:
Microsoft (NSDQ: MSFT) is downsizing its high-profile Live Labs group, which was created three years ago to speed up innovation in the company’s online business, paidContent.org has learned. -- Joseph Tartakoff, Microsoft breaks up its Live Labs group, 2009
Microsoft describes it as a "restructuring". About half of the team will be moved to various product groups. The remaining half, still run by former Overture/Yahoo star Gary Flake, will focus on search, data organization and user experience aspects. There's more information in articles by Mary Jo Foley on ZD Net, Ina Fried on CNET, and Gavin Clarke in The Register.
Contrary to recent whispers and tweets, we are not shutting down, disbanding, dismantling, or anything of the sort. In the coming weeks and months we'll bring you updated developer tools, new ways to use Seadragon, and much more. Going forward, we intend to focus on a smaller number of projects relative to what we've done in the past, but invest in them at a much bigger scale. -- What's next for Live Labs, on the Live Labs blog
Mary Jo comments that "Microsoft execs often touted Live Labs as proof that Microsoft is an innovator, not just a follower," and there's no question that the acquisition of Seadragon and merging it with Microsoft Research technologies has a chance to be transformational. Photosynth is an encouraging start, and there's a lot more to build on. A tighter focus and bigger bets could be a good thing here. On the other hand, Live Labs was also supposed to be a company-wide (or at least Windows Live/MSN-wide) innovation center. Gary's 2006 Live Labs Manifesto and coverage at the time like Ina Fried's captures the original vision: bridging the gap between research and the product groups and revitalizing how software is developed. This was always going to be a tough sell, with senior executives like Steven Sinfosky firmly against the idea of a separate innovation group outside of their control. The restructuring seems to throw in the towel on this front. And Microsoft spokeswoman's Stacy Drake McCredy's comments in paidcontent.org are somewhat alarming:
Economic conditions are imposing constraints that challenge the original Live Labs model by diminishing the group’s ability to transfer innovations to business groups who’re understandably giving priority to “needs” vs. “opportunities.”
Well yeah, it is understandable. But what this is saying that Microsoft product groups aren't in a situation where they can take advantage of opportunities. It's really hard to see that as a recipe for long-term success.
Administrivia: The Cutting Room Floor is unmoderated and folks have been pleading for me to shut down the red-hot discussions over there. I moderate here - when I can manage - to keep things on track. If the CRF can be the crazy diatribe magnet and that makes moderation here all that more easy: fan-damn-tastic.
CRF: Unmoderated thread for "Spitfire Backfire, Live Labs, and Not My 1,400"
75 comments:
I think it is just shameful that Microsoft can't be more transparent about Spitfire. Just explain, in clear terms, why it changed. Why was it greenlighted in the first place?
If management can't be straight with us on this trite little thing, how do they expect us to trust them regaridng more layoffs?
Spitfire: "under the new arrangement, the employees will get a bar, but they won't be able to just drop in for a beer unless they're part of a reserved event"
That's just plain stupid. Then what's the point of holding a bar in the campus for. For limiting us from holding morale event outside of the campus?
Free Spitfire! Free Spitfire! Free Spitfire!
And I wish to see someone getting fired over this.
...a number of you are either in the non-presently-Microsoftie 1,400 or know plenty of people in that pool.However, we appreciate that you left the original post sit out there unchecked for more than two weeks so those of us "non-presently-Microsoftie 1,400" could wonder what the hell was wrong with us. The ego takes a bit of a hit when you're E/20 one day and packing up your desk the next. Meanwhile, the only internal "opportunities" are several rungs down on the ladder, and most other companies have locked down hiring. That "everybody got rehired" salt added a nice texture in the wound, so thanks for that.
"I think it is just shameful that Microsoft can't be more transparent about Spitfire."Because MS is the pinnacle of transparency yea? yea?? amirite?
There should be plenty openings still in MSN search, so no worries about the internal job search people. That is, if the Live Labs reorg didn't force enough people into that pg.
Alright, some advice from the 1400 (for after you get the news, if you fall into such unfortunate circumstance).
Fix your 401(k) withholdings right away if you don't want to see a big chunk of your severence go into retirement. Cease giving campaign contributions if possible (sorry I didn't feel like being so generous with my final paychecks, I wonder if participation will ever be as high again). Cease mealcard contributions; they actually had to mail me checks to refund that since it takes a pay period or two for changes in mealcard to take effect.
On the good news front, if you make under $140k, I think, you get COBRA assisted and only have to pay 35% of the COBRA costs. A nice little bennie there.
Unemployment takes a while to kick in, it pays for the previous week and the 1st week is considered waiting period. So be prepared to be on your own a few weeks before any of that safety net catches you, so to speak.
Terminating employment changes the expiration date of stock options, if you have any of those; not that there's anything to do about that in the sub-20 range. I just found out my fully vested options now expire in months instead of years - sonsabitches.
If you're E/20 & core tech, re-apply. I know plenty of teams that would gladly take you.
BTW - level is only an issue if you're trying to apply for something much more senior than you. Otherwise, you're re-hired based on your last level - not the level of the position.
We're IBM now, we suck
Take solace in that 5-10 years from now, MiniGOOG will be popular and everyone over at GOOG will lament the good old days and be say
"we've become Microsoft"
I am sure the whole concept behind Spitfire is supposed to be a way to consoldate and mitigate the risk around alcohol and moral events around the campus. It is easy to find evidence of teams violating or at least stretching liquor laws just about any week you want to go walk the halls on a Friday afternoon. I doubt this is about a social watering hole for employees... that would be absurd and would really put into question our exec judgement.
Only "scheduled events" at Spitfire--there are Homebrewers and Beer Lovers DL's in Autogroup. That makes them part of the whole "Microsoft Diversity" community, right?
So why not start a "Thursday Evening Beer Connoisseurs" group that--you guessed it--has a regularly scheduled weekly meeting at Spitfire to sample and discuss ales and stouts, etc. Bring in a guest speaker every now and then. Have a couple of the experts on the Homebrewers DL come in and give a talk.
Of course all members will be looking forward most to the drinking part, but why not?
Rehired? Have you looked at http://career lately? There is nothing there. Nothing.
And if you take the package, it's out of the question to get rehired anyway.
If only some of you could get it through your skulls that not all of us are in Redmond or wish to be.
"I am sure the whole concept behind Spitfire is supposed to be a way to consoldate and mitigate the risk around alcohol and moral events around the campus."No way. There are dozens of morale events that happen each week and probably a hundred teams that have booze Fridays -- there's no way this place can deal with that kind of volume.
I predict that seconds after opening its doors it will be impossible to book any spots there, and certainly I'm sure the approval process will be every bit as hellish and burdensome as every other bastardized attempt we make at doing things.
You will be lucky if your team sees this place once a year, and I can't imagine the budget and process hoops involved in securing it.
Nightmare.
I'd love to know who the exec sponsors are for Spitfire and this whole Commons deal in general... this wreaks of a pet project...
At a time when cost cutting is the phrase of the day, what value does this bring again? That whole commons area is silly IMO... feels like MS is trying to build our own mini-RTC.
Umm. Now that we know it costs $250 to book a spot, I doubt there will be anyone using Spitfire after 3 p.m. Kind of a high cover charge, don't you think? That's so we can *say* we have this feature/benefit/cool thing while simultaneously making it completely unattractive to actually use it. Exactly what they do in politics when they want to make sure something doesn't happen but don't want to be on record as voting "against" it. Set it up so that there's no way it can happen, and then vote for it. Oh, gosh - too bad that didn't work out, but you know, I voted for it.
A whole lot of hogwash. What a MESS.
"We're IBM now, we suck"
I've been at MSFT going on 15 years now, and there hasn't been a single year that I haven't heard someone say this.
"Welcome to Spitfire. What can I get you?"
"I'd like a Heineken, please."
"Hold on a second... cancel or allow?"
BTW - level is only an issue if you're trying to apply for something much more senior than you. Otherwise, you're re-hired based on your last level - not the level of the position.
Hey, that's great - so then when I'm rehired at my same old level, how about if I can look forward to the restoration of my same old stock grants, right??? I think not, so things like level and salary should be negotiatble on rehire. How many of you are really still sitting there that the 1400 deserved to go? That you are more special - and somehow safe - because your butt is still parked in your eronomically correct chair. Do the math - the next 3600 are still slated to go, and if it's not you, this time it may be your pals who are trying to figure out how long their savings will last.
Other news from the 1400: During the internal search period (for the few who had this) multiple jobs were frozen or reorged away. At the outplacement center, there are tales of people who were caught in the RIF (like a life tsunami, really), found a new job inside, then were promptly RIF-eded again. For myself and others, all interest has evaporated, although multiple positions on the external careers site are jobs I've done, or could do in my sleep. Zero contacts since March 23, and it took weeks to get the paperwork to sign up for COBRA coverage. All the large employers in and around town are either frozen or innundated with resumes, and my contacts say they either don't have anything open at all, or the similar open-freeze-disappear thing is happening after jobs are posted. These are people who I've worked with, worked for, or managed, and nothing is coming up out of these solid relationships, so forget that networking thing. Unemployment is $541 a week. One recruiter offering up a "low" paying job (about 60% of my prior wage) said that she had advised the company it was way too low, but they told her that with the economy the way it is, they thought they could get away with it. Also discussed some contractor work at half my former hourly rate. Do your own math - it's not good out here. I have some savings, and can get by for months, but when the next wave of you hits the streets along with me, it won't likely be getting better. My own opinion has been that there will be further cuts before April 30, so that MSFT can avoid paying out bonuses.
So if you are in the next wave to go, get ready for a few sparse interviews, chats with consulting firms hoping to exploit your connections, a deflating embarassment from deciding to apply for unemployment benefits, wondering when that advanced education will look good to anyone again, and a revision of every financial goal you ever had. Talked with two other people this week who were cut, one who had recently gotten a big promotion, and they had been there 17 and 20 years. That does make for a nice pile of severance pay, but one has greatly erred in the amount of house she built, and it will have to be sold. Neither got internal search, and one was escorted out of the building on January 22. There are some people who are safe (like if you have multiple patents), but the next cuts will come from somewhere, and most of the 1400 didn't think it would be them, either. Just don't be so certain that it won't be you, and make some plans in case it is. If you think you are staying in town, refinance your house down to a lower rate and lower monthly payment now, before you don't have income to support the mortgage application process. That's something I wish I had done, but I thought I had a lot of time for that. Rates are good now, for those of you with jobs.
I have made a series of plans that I hope will result in a good result, career-wise. I hope to eventually be okay, as many with good skills and education. It's the upheaval that gets you, and I don't wish it on anyone.
One bit of advice is to be sure to get credit for your great work ideas and accomplishments, and toot your own horn a bit - be more visible right now, and be sure you are contributing - something real, make yourself valuable - maybe even irreplacable. Ask yourself what the food chain above you needs, and be sure you are adding value to their list of priorities. It may help you out in the next set of cuts based on arbitrary criteria, like how long you've been in your group, or whether there are two people in the same category. Lots of people have been reorged, which isn't so bad, and why that couldn't have been my fate instead of being kicked out - it keeps me up at night still. And if you can, do something to drive the stock price up, because I have ESPP stock I will need to dump pretty soon, to replace the lost income.
I've been at MSFT going on 15 years now, and there hasn't been a single year that I haven't heard someone say this.Yes, and they've been right for at least the last eight years.
PS: Sounds like we're contemporaries.
@1:25
I appreciate you telling it like it is.
"It's the upheaval that gets you, and I don't wish it on anyone."
Dead on. I'm also selling my house and moving my family into a small apartment since I have no idea how long the widespread hiring freeze may last. On the job front, all I'm finding are a handful of positions with pay at least 35 percent below what I was making when I was let go. Even though at this point I'm willing to take that just to keep from chipping away at my savings, no one will make me an offer because they think (and rightly so) that I will jump ship as soon as the economy turns around.
Applying for unemployment was humiliating.
Your advice to the people who may soon experience this "life tsunami" is good, and I hope some will heed it.
One bit of advice is to be sure to get credit for your great work ideas and accomplishments, and toot your own horn a bit - be more visible right now, and be sure you are contributing - something real, make yourself valuable - maybe even irreplacable.Which is hard if your manager does not like you or ensures you have no visibility +1 or +2 up ... make that happen on your own.
This sadly happens in MSD alot.
>> 35 percent below what I was making
>> when I was let go
Let me guess. You were a "principal" level IC or manager without any experience with anything but Microsoft and MS technology stack, and no domain experience applicable out in the "real world", right?
Has anyone compiled a list of projects/teams/divisions that saw cuts during Round 1 back in January? I'm a data freak and would love to read over such a list.
"Talked with two other people this week who were cut, one who had recently gotten a big promotion..."
I also was promoted six months before the ax fell. Some of the "awesomes" out there need to get their heads out of the clouds and make sure they're working on a Plan B. I wish I'd done the same, but I figured there was no way they'd be coming after anyone on my team. Ah, the benefit of hindsight.
Good luck to all who are worried this week. It's not pretty out here, and I don't have much in the way of hopeful platitudes to spread around.
Anyone hearing rumors of announcement of more than 6000 layoffs (on top of the 5000 announced in Jan). Are people just trying to mess with me or is there any truth to this.
Let me guess. You were a "principal" level IC or manager without any experience with anything but Microsoft and MS technology stack, and no domain experience applicable out in the "real world", right?Wrong, wrong and wrong. Nowhere near principal level and had broad experience with other technologies before coming to Microsoft. I'm curious what led you to those conclusions, but you didn't even hit the target, let alone the bull's-eye.
Anyone know any real details on whether there will be layoffs in COSD or Office? It's going to be hellacious waiting for any announcements this week.
Well, looks like this will be a helluva week. I'm almost certain that a portion of the remaining 3600 will be laid off either this week or before April 30th. And you know what, I'm not nervous at all.
What happened on Jan 22nd was a wake-up call, and I have now prepared myself mentally that anything can happen, and I can be in the next batch to go. However, I still work hard and do the best job I can. The mental adjustment was a bit awkward at first. How do you go to work everyday and get anything done, when there's a chance you can be in the next 3600? But I pulled it off. Now, whatever happens, I'll be fine. This doesn't mean I want to lose my job, but I'm ready for it in every way.
Financially, I've already saved up enough to last me 2-3 years, assuming I don't get another job. But that's a worst case scenario, and highly unlikely. I refinanced the house and closed last week. I took out a HELOC, and put the proceeds in a CD, which is an additional set of emergency savings. CC debt is zero, and the car is paid off.
All this probably puts me in the minority. I know that most people aren't nearly as well prepared. But you should be. You should've been getting hour financial house in order for at least the past 3 months. If you survive this week, then chances are, you are OK for a few more months. Use that opportunity to further clean things up and get that plan B/C/D some more traction.
I wish everyone the best of luck, and I hope we all survive this week.
I keep reading these posts about the emotional and financial upheaval of losing your job but I just don't get it.
Even when I was a small child growing up in the 80s, I remember hearing about how job security wasn't like in the olden days and an average worker would have to change jobs/careers/companies 4 times in their lifetimes. I'm sure that number is much higher now. And if you've been working at Microsoft for the past 10-20 years, doesn't that mean you're kinda due?
I remember DEC and IBM laying off tons of people in the 90s... Dilbert was always going on about downsizing and layoffs in the tech industry LONG before the dot-com collapse... and then the collapse hit and we all know how that went... and really, except for Microsoft and Google, I don't know employees at any high-tech company that don't talk about rounds of layoffs like this on a regular basis, even when times are good for the industry as a whole. And for God's sake, we live in Seattle, you can't throw a stone without hitting someone who's been laid off by Boeing at least once.
So, okay, maybe you didn't expect to be laid off but surely everybody considers it a possibility and plans for it, right? How shocked and/or ill-prepared can you possibly be? Never before have I heard so much teeth-gnashing about layoffs. Until otherwise indicated, I'm assuming that the people posting here who are really traumatized have been leading some very sheltered lives.
After reading these comments for a few years now, I am so glad I don't work at Microsoft any more. Looking back, it was a miserable experience (sexual harrassment, bullying, back stabbing, slandering, constant political gamesmanship, oneupmanship) Despite this nonsense, I drank the Kool Aid and foolishly thought there was something wrong with me and not the company. I slaved away for > 10 years, got more than my share of 4.0's and few $MM but few promotions and I wasn't able to further my career in the way I wanted. It is very true that msft is a caste system, or like the Mafia -- if you're a "made man" you have it all, if not, you have to work 60-70 hours a week to just run in place. After being reorged so many times that I wasn't even working in my field any more I finally realized that no one at msft cared about my career besides me ("you manage your own career" -- huh?) I finally quit 3 years ago and found a great job in my field with a reputable company that treats its employees well. It didn't happen right away, but I'm now making over 60% MORE than I was at msft, enjoying life, my job, my employer, my boss, my peers and I have time for my children. I say this to let others know that companies can be successful as can people without becoming the kind of person that msft tries to turn you into. Good luck to those looking for work. From a first-time poster...
Anyone know any real details on whether there will be layoffs in COSD or Office?.
You can bet on it. This is not a matter of 'if', but of 'when'. There has not been much serious Win 8 planning effort and that is an clear writing on the wall. Spring cleaning has been long overdue for COSD.
Who ever said the 1400 deserved to go? This wasnt about the people at all but about the businesses they were working in... if it was about the people, we would have seen 10% get cut right away since we clearly have at least that much bottom feeding on the company right now.
The reality is that this is not about the people at all... we have too many businesses that suck right now and have been allowed to act as startups in a corporate climate that left the startup business model behind many years ago in favor of making a ton of cash. Those businesses need to get cut or re-org'd into teams that are doing a better job of managing costs and getting results. It sucks to be in one of those businesses but frankly, smart folks know when they are in a business like that and either put on the blinders and hope it works out (hello, entire Zune team... talking to you here) or maybe just dont see it coming at all which sort of says something about the people afterall.
I know quite a few of the 1400 that saw this day coming in their business so it wasnt a big shocker purely from a business perspective... they just didnt believe until now that MS would actually lay off employees since that was unheard of before January. Now that we have that answer, i would encourage everyone to take a hard look at your business and be more prepared if what you see is not good.
hot out of the press. oracle is buying sun. before anybody bid up sun's shares, i bought some at a discounted price of $9.15. i will be laughing all the way to the bank when this news will become public.
Any rumors re: Layoffs and reorgs on the 22nd?
Anyone notice how Microsoft has enough $ to open up "The Commons"? Yet not enough $ to retain the folks they are laying off?
In regards to spitfire...
Most FTE's have a bar in their office. So I could care less about a bar on campus.
It seems that the extent of Microslop's innovation is a new bar and foodcourt on campus.
whooopdi dooooooo.....
http://www.techflash.com/More_Microsoft_layoffs_looming_Seattle_analyst_cites_possibility_43283682.html
"And for God's sake, we live in Seattle, you can't throw a stone without hitting someone who's been laid off by Boeing at least once."
Some of us would have to throw a stone one hell of a distance to get it to Seattle. Not all of the 1,400 are in Redmond.
"So, okay, maybe you didn't expect to be laid off but surely everybody considers it a possibility and plans for it, right? How shocked and/or ill-prepared can you possibly be?"
Didn't expect it. Have prepared most of my life for the possibility and will be OK for at least 18 months. Certainly shocked. Everywhere I've ever worked, layoffs typically made a little sense -- a layer of middle management, the last-hireds, the retired-in-places -- so forgive me if I didn't anticipate the epileptic skeet-shoot approach to culling the herd.
"Never before have I heard so much teeth-gnashing about layoffs."
If you find the teeth-gnashing all that unusual, I'd suggest it's perhaps you who might emerge from that shelter. This goes on almost anywhere once the pink slips start flying. However, most companies don't have Mini-esque blog readers to capture it all for posterity.
/i i bought some at a discounted price of $9.15. i will be laughing all the way to the bank when this news will become public. /i
Um...it closed at $9.15, so I wouldn't start laughing yet. And in afterhours trading it's down to $9.11.
So much for gloating.
In response to Poster - April 20, 2009 3:03:00 AM
In the past, I'd agree with your observations of financial duress and upheaval... but today we have neither a normal economy nor healthy job market.
Sadly, with close to 10% unemployment - the number of job opportunities are almost non-existent.
If open positions exist, expect to take a 10-40% pay cut.
Maybe you are lucky enough to find a job in a new community - but at what cost? New job, new city, maybe you can sell your home without taking a huge loss - relocating families - and the new company faces the same economic challenges..
Unlike Microsoft's messy and secretive layoff decisions, other companies use length of service to decide layoffs - so Last In, First Out and back where you started.
Be kind to friends and colleagues, there are trying times.
http://iw.shibles.com/news/analyst-more-layoffs-coming-microsoft
One of 1400 here. Back to work after waiting out the 2 month admin leave period, with just one week unpaid. I'm a v- now. More money, but worse benefits (naturally), so all in all it is a wash.
Regarding finding out when the next layoff comes. When I found out that I was going to get canned (a day before), it was by getting a "private" outlook appointment from my manager. It didn't have anything specific, but did not bode well. I opened that manager's calendar and saw a few other appointments like that, one day before (I am sure that's when HR said who will be canned) and couple after me. They show with a padlock icon.
I just re-checked that person for those "private" appointments with padlock and there is nothing this or next week. Doesn't mean anything, though.
Too bad not everyone shares their calendars.
>> I'm curious what led you to those conclusions
It's just that we're having a HECK of a time hiring people into an established, profitable, growing (but not yet public) company, with higher salaries than what Microsoft pays.
We have high bar, and on average it takes us well over two months and a dozen interviews to fill each position.
"It's just that we're having a HECK of a time hiring people into an established, profitable, growing (but not yet public) company, with higher salaries than what Microsoft pays.
We have high bar, and on average it takes us well over two months and a dozen interviews to fill each position."You folks always make these claims, yet never reveal your companies -- putting a job link here certainly can't hurt you, and it would actually go a long way toward making what you say believable.
For now, I put it down to another fairy tale.
Poster Monday, April 20, 2009 9:34:00 PM
Lots of talented people on this blog eager to contribute. Can you send link to potential job opportunities on your website?
Much appreciated
MS1400
> I just re-checked that person for those "private" appointments with padlock and there is nothing this or next week. Doesn't mean anything, though.
Those appointments won't show up until the day of the layoff.
So how true is this rumour going to be -
http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/provider/providerarticle.aspx?feed=ACBJ&date=20090420&id=9802164
To Anonymous who asked about the rumored re-org/layoff on Thursday, there is at least one large reorg going on this week. I don't know about the layoffs but I've heard the rumor that it's Thursday too.
>So how true is this rumour going to be -
http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/provider/providerarticle.aspx?feed=ACBJ&date=20090420&id=9802164
I think, the source of the original article quoted by this article(and others) is one particular comment in this particular blogpost.
Based on the address book title changes i saw post MYCD (mainly devdiv), it looks like num of promotions were normal. Coupling this with the absence of any 'credible' sounding rumor here at minimsft, I'm tempted to assume there aren't company wide layoffs this week.
In terms of the reorg, I have heard that Microsoft Services will be reorg'ing. But, I did not hear if there would be any layoff's as a result.
>> You folks always make these claims, yet
>> never reveal your companies -- putting a job
>> link here certainly can't hurt you
It can. We don't want to be swarmed by a bunch of random, desperate (ex-)Microsofties with no relevant experience. You see, someone has to review the resumes, do phone screens, do interviews. It adds up, and unlike at Microsoft, someone has to actually do the work, too.
So you will have to look for it yourself, it's all out there.
Another reason is, I can't post a link here, because I just left Microsoft a little over two months ago myself and my non-solicitation agreement is still in effect.
Right now I am looking out for a new job in MS - because of re-org. Even though I have not been given official notice, but I have been informed that I need to find a new job soon. My guess: second round of layoffs will happen in May and third round in June.
any rumours about what products & departments are targetted for reorg, lay offs?
We don't want to be swarmed by a bunch of random, desperate (ex-)Microsofties with no relevant experience. You see, someone has to review the resumes, do phone screens, do interviews. It adds up, and unlike at Microsoft, someone has to actually do the work, too.So you phone screen and interview random desperate people with no relevant experience? About a dozen per hire? How very revealing about the quality of company, I see your point now.
Obviously you're doing it wrong. Some 'softies would probably improve the productivity; no that's not a compliment. I mean, they hired you....
as an ms1400, I would love to apply to your company. please don't screen or interview me, just need to make my 3 application quota thanks (like I care if it makes ms look bad).
india lay off rumours
200 in MS IT India
1400 in MS IDC
"It can. We don't want to be swarmed by a bunch of random, desperate (ex-)Microsofties with no relevant experience. You see, someone has to review the resumes, do phone screens, do interviews. It adds up, and unlike at Microsoft, someone has to actually do the work, too.
So you will have to look for it yourself, it's all out there.
Another reason is, I can't post a link here, because I just left Microsoft a little over two months ago myself and my non-solicitation agreement is still in effect."
I'm calling BS on this -- it just doesn't ring true, as posting here would not result in a desperate swarm of ex-MSFT any more than anywhere else, especially given the relatively low traffic of this site compared to anywhere else you'd post jobs. And given the fact that you're claiming to have a hard time finding people -- well, it just doesn't add up at all.
So I'll say again, if you can't back up your claims of high-paying jobs with actual links, it's probably best to not try and use it as an argument. Nobody believes you.
Have they locked down Headtrax in anticipation of Thursday? I would check but I'm no longer employed with Microsoft.
Layoff day apparently - please provide updates on 'reorgs', 'modified missions' etc.
>> So you phone screen and interview random
>> desperate people with no relevant experience?
Umm, no. :-) We only phone screen and interview folks whose resumes match basic qualifications (or those who come in through a personal recommendation of an employee), in which case our recruiter forwards them to us. There are quite a few ex-MSFT people here, we're not total hacks as far as interviewing is concerned.
In most cases, though, what's in the resume is a gross exaggeration at best. E.g. people say they have data warehousing background and then can't explain what a snowflake schema is or why one might want to partition a table.
"We had one product management person for every three engineers... We had a lot of people telling engineers what to do but nobody fucking doing anything."
Guess which company the speaker is referring to... bonus points for guessing the speaker...
answer
"india lay off rumours
200 in MS IT India
1400 in MS IDC
"
Really? I don't think there are so many FTEs in IDC. Even in MSIT the number of FTEs are not that high.
However, rumors are rife on layoff and folks are expecting atleast 5-10% cuts in a whole bunch of teams.
Besides the announced reductions, some groups have decided to cut the bottom 10%. They are doing this one person at a time, and they are keeping it very quite. This is happening with greater frequency. Many of these people do not deserve to leave, but politics prevails. Yet the top still receives those partner rewards.
Just tried to schedule a meeting for tomorrow in the new Studio A building, 36 out of 40 conference rooms are booked from 1:00pm to 4:00pm. Looks like a solid block of blue in Outlook. No other day this week or next week has such a solid block as this. Looks to me like something is up.
If layoffs are happening tomorrow, Microsoft learned to be sneakier about them. To answer the question above, yes Headtrax is working now.
I personally don't think there will be mass layoffs right now. We just opened Spitfire, and we'd have a PR nightmare. A headline might read "Microsoft Fires Hundreds, The Rest Get Drunk at New MS Bar"
Booze at the spitfire I could live without, dumb but I can stand that. The layoffs are still comming people. May 5th is the current D-Day for the next round, have fun.
oh yeah. MSPoll results come out in a week.. laughable...
"We had one product management person for every three engineers... We had a lot of people telling engineers what to do but nobody fucking doing anything."
Guess which company the speaker is referring to... bonus points for guessing the speaker...Well, I knew it wasn't Microsoft. All the teams I've been on have had an almost 1:1 PM:dev ratio. Usually the PMs are recent college hires without much interest in computers or the product they're "working" on, and they get to tell the devs with 10-20+ years experience how software should be engineered. But I'm sure they all do a bang-up job deciding how to position the buttons on a vending machine.
A friend of a friend (yeah, I know, talk about hearsay) apparently has the same name as someone else in HR and keeps getting sent spreadsheets regarding layoffs. Apparently something is going to happen on May 15th...
Booze at the spitfire I could live without, dumb but I can stand that. The layoffs are still comming people. May 5th is the current D-Day for the next round, have fun.
oh yeah. MSPoll results come out in a week.. laughable...
Hmmm, May 5th? It's a Tuesday, a bit arbitrary, isn't it? Anything special about that day?
"We're IBM now, we suck"
Whats wrong with IBM?
Looking at the stock, they seem to have their act together compared to MSFT. Currently -60% difference compared to IBM.
IBM vs. MSFT Chart
"Hmmm, May 5th? It's a Tuesday, a bit arbitrary, isn't it? Anything special about that day?"
another comment indicates its may 15th, May be the OP of this comment wanted to say 15th as well. If that's the case we may be on to something here. Among other things May 15th is a friday...
(No, I don't have any 'insider' information. I am just guessing from what i read here)
Looks like the longer term trend for Microsoft's stock isn't so hot :(
Microsoft PredictionI guess that means that the stock market is more bearish than bullish. I'm still holding on to my shares though and thinkin win7 win7 win7
If MS wants to change their mind about having a bar on their property, that's their prerogative. What's not cool is letting the people who invested their money in the build-out eat the loss. MS should fully reimburse them, with interest.
-jcr
The book "winning" from Jack Welch talks about giving layoff notices on a Friday so the (ex) employee has all weekend (of his own time) to calm down. That same book also talks about building the person back up after getting wrecked by the layoff notice: good practice.... Btw: I heard very interesting feedback of "Corporate Confidential" from Shapiro, did not read this book but another one from the same writer: a big eye opener.
Also heard of a big project getting pm'd to death.... I can see these pm's micromanaging a project into the dumpster, telling very experienced engineers exactly what to do, then blame them later for derailing the project. Feeling like becoming a disposable entity? I hear ya and I can hear the talent shredder screaming all day too.
Mini, I told you Tuesday, May 5th, at 6am, and you questioned me when I told you it's confirmed...well there ya go....read your corp email...
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