Microsoft Layoffs - Cinco de Fire-O
Well, if ever you wanted to console yourself with some tequila, today might be your day. Phase Two of the big Microsoft 2009 layoff engages today.
- Microsoft continues layoff plan, eliminates thousands more jobs - TechFlash Seattle's Technology News Source
- Steve Ballmer's internal memo on Microsoft's latest round of layoffs - TechFlash Seattle's Technology News Source
- Microsoft Starts The Layoff Machine Again Steve Ballmer’s Memo To The Troops Peter Kafka MediaMemo AllThingsD
Is this it? Will there be more? From Mr. Ballmer's email:
With this announcement, we are mostly but not all done with the planned 5,000 job eliminations by June 2010.
Strangely, Ms. Brummel have asked folks to avoid emailing each other today because the last layoff's email volume was so distracting. Gee, sorry to be a bother while people are trying to figure out what the hell is going on. Let's see... how to avoid that... I know, tell people what the hell is going on and which people / groups are affected. Oy.
Please, if affected by today's events, note which group you're in and any messaging about things going forward (as appropriate and proper).
(And please, Ms. Brummel, if you talk to the troops about this, don't share how people affected by the layoff are thanking you - that just seems creepy.)
Dropping moderation for today, but as usual: be responsible. I will delete comments later that are off-topic, along with any other comments that react to the deleted comments. If in doubt, go visit the CRF parallel thread: http://minimsftcrf.blogspot.com/2009/05/comment-stream-microsoft-layoffs-cinco.html
1,545 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 1401 – 1545 of 1545I heard that 10% people are going to get laid off.
One of the top technologists in Craig Mundie's whole organization is moving to OSD to help Microsoft's mobile search and advertising. He is innovators' innovator. Another sad news for folks in SBA following the 2nd round of layoff. This is a major coup from Satya to steal Craig's top dog.
The evidence for a lay-off on June 30th is very slim. I think there has only been one posting on mini that sounded somewhat authoritative, and sparked all the rest of the discussion. Everything else was either outright spurious, or rank speculation.
I think people might be getting worked up over nothing. If there really was going to be a lay-off on the 30th I would have expected to see (credible) confirmation from additional posters as we got closer to the date.
The evidence for a lay-off on June 30th is very slim.
Look for mass conference room reservations in your building. They were a dead giveaway last time around. I don't see any in my neck of the woods.
One of the top technologists in Craig Mundie's whole organization is moving to OSD to help Microsoft's mobile search and advertising. He is innovators' innovator. Another sad news for folks in SBA following the 2nd round of layoff. This is a major coup from Satya to steal Craig's top dog.
Who is the person?
There are no layoffs on 30th of June.I was aware all layoffs beforehand. No news so far, so definitely no layoffs. There will be some layoffs based on performance after the review in Sept. These are either old woods or one who don't deserve to be in Microsoft.
"Both layoffs (January and May) were pre-announced in Mini's blog with the precise dates with several weeks in advance. What more can you ask ?"
It's true -- they were "pre-announced" here. However, at least a dozen more layoffs were "pre-announced" here, and most of the "pre-announcements" that had the right timeframe wildly overestimated the number of people who would be cut, both times.
It would kind of surprise me if a layoff happened that was not rumoured on this blog. But that doesn't mean I take *any* specific layoff rumour very seriously.
Why are folks so hang up on the numbers of people who will have been laid off by the end of FY09?
The bottom line is if the economy doesn't improve and we don't start seeing a turn around in revenue, MS will keep on cutting people, even into FY10. This is not a state owned venture. So, nobody can promises us if our job is safe.
I work in Search, I feel we really have no work+life balance. Initial response to the Bing brand launch has been great. Our traffic has been the 2nd largest market share for a couple of hours, and then it came down.
So this leads me to wonder, can we really sustain our market share in Search? If not, then that is bad.
The date listed i.e. 6/30/09, 3/23/09is the employee's last date of employment at MS
I was laid off in Jan, had the 60 day severance. March 23rd was my last day and first day to go on UE
Same with people laid off in May, last day at MS first date of UE 6/30/09
Totally untrue -- at least for the May Layoff. I have first-hand knowledge that last day of service for those affected in May is 7/4.
i wish more layoffs came this month but i doubt it... too much going on with fiscal year end, annual review and summer vacations to execute a company wide layoff or even a division wide layoff. That and the strategic timing wouldnt make sense for many reasons unless they were immediately terminated because you'd still have to review them which is why the May 5th round was timed that way so everyone impacted is gone before annual review starts.
I would instead expect a round of RIF's and terminiatons more quietly at the division VP or even GM org level during FY10 H1 largely based on performance... not official layoffs, but a higher degree than normal of outright RIF's and people getting terminated with new positions opened right on their heals to backfill with better people.
In this economy the logical thing to do is cut dead weight and low performers (even low-avg) and hire from a reasonably ripe talent pool in the market.
A company of MS scale doesn't need to do sly stuff like sending up a hippy to check who is present or not. If they have to give you boot, they will make no bones about it. And if MS has to do any sizable cut, it will be announced exactly the same way as last time. SteveB mentioned in his 5th-May e-mail that MS is almost done with layoff's announced in January for the time being and that I assume, is up to December. So stop getting paranoid and work your butt off till then.
So the rumor was true: M. Martinez has left the building.
A naive question maybe: Is she realy leaving to spend more time with her family? If not, anybody has details in the reasons behind her departure?
The likelihood of a Windows division lay-off occuring on June 30th is virtually nil. The entire Windows senior management team (executives, GPMs, dev manager, ets) is scheduled for another full day of industry briefings (which have been occuring for the last week).
There is no way the entire senior staff would be holding such a session if they were going to be laying people off on the same day.
"I work in Search, I feel we really have no work+life balance."
Cry me a fucking river. I was laid off in January, and I really have no work+life balance either. I'd trade places with you in a heartbeat.
Count your blessings, ingrate.
I heard that 10% people are going to get laid off.
Which buckets? There is differentiation in the 10% bucket. Remember Limited and Limited II?
Services employees got the email that confirmed Maria leaving and Kathleen taking over.
To the poster who accurately posted this info here some time back - Is Maria's departure voluntary?
There have been layoffs in MSIT India on Friday.
There are no layoffs on 30th of June.I was aware all layoffs beforehand. No news so far, so definitely no layoffs. There will be some layoffs based on performance after the review in Sept. These are either old woods or one who don't deserve to be in Microsoft.
if you got messaged your trending A10 or your manager doesn't like you your probably in the latter camp. in MSD, my group is over NTE by 3 and about to go up 5 ... our director (test) is not changing things for the better and robbing the cradle
"deserve" is subjective ...
"The bottom line is if the economy doesn't improve and we don't start seeing a turn around in revenue, MS will keep on cutting people, even into FY10. This is not a state owned venture."
Duh.
"I work in Search, I feel we really have no work+life balance."
Quit.
"So this leads me to wonder, can we really sustain our market share in Search?"
This leads me to wonder, has search failed so far because it's populated by people like yourself who thought one relaunch was all it was going to take?
I would instead expect a round of RIF's and terminiatons more quietly at the division VP or even GM org level during FY10 H1 largely based on performance... not official layoffs, but a higher degree than normal of outright RIF's and people getting terminated with new positions opened right on their heals to backfill with better people.
this will happen for sure, so if you already got your message you were given a warning to look now.
so start ..
"There have been layoffs in MSIT India on Friday."
Good! If it was up to most of us in the real Microsoft, everyone in India would be laid-off and the entire crap operation would be scrapped.
MSFT India does substandard work that's an embarrassment to the company. I have no idea what value India brings to the table, as the cheap labor ends-up costing us 10x down the road.
This is not a slam against India or the Indian people -- it's a slam against MSFT India, which should not exist.
Hello services employees asking about MariaMa's exit:
"Is it really voluntary" :-) read on
Enterprise services did not make revenue plan by $100mill with obvious impact on CM.
"Service lines" while an interesting concept have no sales traction while tens of millions of $ and hundreds of headcount were invested.
WHI/LEI is abysmally bad.
So I am guessing that it was *not* voluntary.
I've been in Wex for the past 5 years. We are getting too bloated. If there is not a layoff or reorg soon, Win8 will be the next Vista all over again. Guaranteed!
WARN layoff count showed up on state website the day after the layoffs.
1400: No job, no offers, some interviews (all with proposed pay reduction of about 25%), eating through savings at scary rate. Unemployment is $611 per week, 35% of COBRA coverage is $541/month for us. Mortgage on small house is 86% of unemployment benefits. Have cut all luxuries, delaying buying anything but necessities.
What you should do: Refinance your house if it helps to have the lower payment, take out a line of credit to cushion the unemployment period (pay it off if you get a new job, and your finances back in order), stop eating out, cut spending anywhere you can stand it, build up your savings, continue 401K contributions at 6% to get the match, go to the doctor and dentist, bank your bonus if you get one, buy a reasonable car if you need one - loan rates are low, hug your kids, don't let the stess wreck your lives, do your own yardwork, and hope anyone you have ever worked with has the decency to check on you sometime, or even offer you a job when they have one open up. Really tough to go from being a high achiever to being ignored by MSFT and most everyone else. Weird little world.
Microsoft Defends Its Empire
"The big danger for Microsoft is that its software will be commoditized," says Michael A. Cusumano, a professor at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. "It's happening as we speak." Analysts expect that when Microsoft reports fiscal 2009 results in late July, annual revenue will have declined for the first time since the company went public in 1986.
To be sure, Microsoft remains one of the world's most profitable companies, with estimated earnings of $15.2 billion for the fiscal year ending June 30 on revenue of $59.9 billion. And it has generated plenty of buzz for its new Bing search engine, introduced in May, and its upcoming Windows 7 operating system.
But neither has lifted the company's languid stock, which, despite a jump since March, trades at the same price it fetched in 1998—even though the company has almost four times the profit. Analysts are no longer whispering that Microsoft's glory days may have passed—they're saying it openly. "The Roman Empire remained a pretty nice place to live for 400 years after Rome peaked," says longtime PC analyst Roger L. Kay. "But there's no doubt that the Microsoft empire is in decline."
Way to go, Steve.
I agree with the search guy who said there is no work life balance. But this is true for only a few of the new developers. There are lots of devs, tests and PMs in this org who virtually do not do any work. And it seems that they are beyond any performance management process.
1400: No job, no offers, some interviews (all with proposed pay reduction of about 25%
What's wrong with accepting an offer with 25% reduction? If I were unemployed I would definitely take up any offer I get. Why would you prefer to remain unemployed rather than get the job
To all those who got laid off and keep complaining that there are no offers. Is it that there are no offers at all or there are offers but the salaries offered are less than the bloated MS salaries
MSFT India does substandard work that's an embarrassment to the company
I agree with this poster. Its not that the guys here cannot do good work but most of them are pretty lazy out here at IDC. Infact in May and June a lot of time was spent watching cricket matches in office
"Cry me a fucking river. I was laid off in January, and I really have no work+life balance either. I'd trade places with you in a heartbeat.
Count your blessings, ingrate."
yeah, maybe that is why you are laid off in the first place. No, don't trade place with me, look for a job instead. And if you cannot find one, then that is really your problem, not mine.
At the end of the day, it is up for each individual to take care of himself/herself.
If I were laid off, I wouldn't be here crying foul and blame it on others.
But having said that, good luck to you. I know it is really tough out there. By the way, Search is hiring. I don't know what you situation is, but maybe give Search a try anyway?
Just because the economy is tough, it doesn't mean people have to compromise their health for their jobs. I have seen people who are asked by their managers to work extra hours just because.....
And you are saying this is right?
Re: Microsoft Defends Its Empire
Argh. How depressing is this article. Ballmer and co. have been beating the same dead horse for 10 years now. Software as a service, cloud computing, internet collaboration. I can't tell if this is better or worse than the dead horse Bill Gates used to beat, i.e., tablet computing and home automation.
Ballmer seems to have the same technical vision as my neighbor who barely knows how to turn his computer on but gets very excited about editorials on technology in Business Week.
Anonymous @2:11pm said,
1400: No job, no offers, some interviews (all with proposed pay reduction of about 25%), eating through savings at scary rate. [deleted details] delaying buying anything but necessities.
I have bought only a few business and technical books since March 23. Tech stuff, nada. Entertainment, nada. Clothing and shoes, nada. Cable's now turned off and I have an OTA antenna. My money other than bills goes to clothes, food and transportation, period. If your interviews are for positions within 25% of your old salary, you're doing better than me. The only "hits" I seem to get are for positions at 40-60% of my old salary, because I had an unusual enough role that the title doesn't accurately represent the level of what I did. And all recruiters and hiring managers seem to be doing these days is matching against title. For example, my most recent recruiter contact was for a contract for the same type of position I held in 2001, because its title sounded similar to the one I left in 2009. Pay: just above 1/3 of what I most recently earned at MS in a much higher level role.
and hope anyone you have ever worked with has the decency to check on you sometime, or even offer you a job when they have one open up. Really tough to go from being a high achiever to being ignored by MSFT and most everyone else.
You said it. I've gotten a few emails, and one person made the 3-mile trek to have lunch with me one day recently. That's it. I do occasionally see people "around", and they express to me how shocked they were to hear of my layoff because I was commonly thought to be, and was, one of my former group's highest performers using several objective measures. If you're in a similar situation, your MS friends might be just a bit spooked, maybe even feel a bit guilty if they think you contributed more to the department than they do, and they might be at a loss for words. For those of you who've never been through it, this is par for the course after a layoff, on both sides. It's not specific to Microsoft. What is specific to Microsoft is that for many of us, our roles didn't leave much time for friends outside the office, so our professional colleagues are a relatively important part of our social network.
Guys out there, even if you don't know what to say, even if you can't necessarily afford to spring for lunch for us and figure we don't have much money to pay for our own lunch either, Quizno's and KFC aren't very expensive and they're both edible. I think most of us would gladly buy our own lunch at a place like that, if it meant social time with former colleagues.
"Really tough to go from being a high achiever to being ignored by MSFT and most everyone else."
+1
I'm still trying to make sense of how I went from E/20/promoted during the last review period to "homeless" (had to sell it), unable to find a job and increasingly concerned about how to support my family. I had thought Microsoft would be my stepping stone to considerable career growth, and instead, my decision to accept a Microsoft job offer is turning out to be the worst misstep I took in my career.
It's also frustrating as hell to read the "poor me, I have no work-life balance" crap from some snot-nosed 20-something who has no idea what it's like to be on the flip side of that equation. Although I am enjoying this extra time with my children, I need to provide for them -- and that's impossible to do when there are so few jobs out there right now.
I agree with the search guy who said there is no work life balance.
I hate to break it to you. The economy is crap. There's no work / life balance at most companies. Everyone's scared they are going to lose their job. This isn't limited to Microsoft.
Maria's departure was not voluntary... check any business metric you want, she was over her head... 'nuf said.
Kathleen is the real deal though so I would expect a big turn around in Services over the next few years with probably some short term visible changes to set the tone for the future. I'd anticipate she will build Services, much like she did with CSS, into a strong, influential voice back into the product groups while also building improved CPE in the process.
So tomorrow (30th june) is the day for next round, as per rumors here.
Any updates/insider news?
Not to make anyone here nervous, but reading through this it seems lay offs have hit Mini commenters disproportionately hard.
I'm just sayin...
Hey Mini (aka 'Who-da...'), about time for a new post? We're coming up on 2 months for this one. If you're planning on taking it easy this summer, maybe get a new post to spark new discussion first?
I'm a relatively new hire to Microsoft (Feb of this year). As someone who has been unemployed for 5 months (was with Oracle prior), I can say that I'm thankful for the opportunity. All I can say is that keep on trucking guys and you'll land on your feet.
It must be a paranoid atmosphere back on campus; that's the only explanation I can think of for how things clamped down.
I was part of the first wave. It was a *total* shock to me, and my colleagues. Total shock. I was a classic over-achiever; the only thing I was guilty of was being a little too vocal about how we were doing the wrong things - maybe that's why I was thrown out.
Compared to the other posts here, I appear to have been very lucky - within a couple of weeks I'd had a selection of offers and contracts, and selected a full time offer that was just short of double my MSFT deal (though as others have mentioned - nothing, I repeat, nothing appears to touch the level of Microsoft's medical coverage)
The purpose of this posting? The silence from those back at MSFT was deafening. People who I'd called friends, after the initial day#1 message of, "God, I'm shocked, send me your detail, I know our team would love to have you", nothing, no updates, no leads, it's as if they rolled up inside to protect themselves. What were they thinking? Are they paranoid that if they put my name forward theu will over balance their team and put themselved in jeopardy? How messed up is that? What has happened to the culture of wanting to hire people better than yourself? Now it appears that people need to hire ablative shields of less competent people around themselves to protect their own hides.
Don't get me started on HR. What a worthless bunch they are. How hard is it to send even a "Thank you for your application" response to my applications? Nothing, not a single byte ever in response. It's embarassing to think of how proud I still am to have worked there when they treat external (and potential future) employees with such arrogance and lack of communication.
With the odd exception, most other places I applied to sent a response of some kind, some automated, some personal, but always professional. Some of you might speculate that MSFT didn't respond to my applications because, secretly, I was on some form of 'black list' and there is a central database of people not to re-hire, and whilst sensible, that would require a level of competeance and thinking and organisation that is a universe beyond what MSFT HR appears able to handle. It's embarassing to what (and here annecdotes from others) just how bad the HR team is.
If you're unfortunate to be in a future wave, if you need any information at all from the HR team, I strongly advise you to find a warm body to talk to when you leave. You can forget about any form of communication afterwards. My partner and I have called (no joke) dozens of times regarding certain issues (A COBRA question here, a legal matter there ...), the level of support could, at best, be described as utterly pathetic. If you ever get through to person, the only thing they can tell you is "I don't know, I'd have to ask someone else" (who magically, whatever time you call, is not there). I've left telephone numbers, email addresses, and never had a single call-back ... not one. Similarly on emails (even ones marked notify on receipt), zero response. It's a joke. If they had not paid for my silence with the severence package (to get your money you have to agree to not bad mouth the company or the staff), I've got enough material documented and itemized to make a very embarassing 30 min special about how poorly managed this entire escapade has been.
My money other than bills goes to clothes, food and transportation, period.
I shouldn't post at that hour. But I was up working on a startup that I hope will get me through this, and needed a break. That should have said "meds, food and transportation, period." Wishful thinking on my part after a visit to Nordstrom's about 10 days ago!
I'm just about to accept a Level 64 business development manager job but am negotiating on salary and bonus. Does anyone know what the range is? This is in SMSG. Thanks
my decision to accept a Microsoft job offer is turning out to be the worst misstep I took in my career.
Give it time. Many companies are still happy to see Microsoft on a resume. It may be annoying now, but it'll likely pay off for you eventually. That doesn't make today or tomorrow any easier, though.
The economy is hitting companies other than Microsoft, too. If you'd joined another large tech company like IBM or Sun or myspace, you may have faced the same fate. And smaller companies are going under, worst case, or switching down to a 4 or 3 day work week, with corresponding pay decreases, best case.
People can be at the wrong place at the wrong time just about anywhere.
Guys out there, even if you don't know what to say, even if you can't necessarily afford to spring for lunch for us and figure we don't have much money to pay for our own lunch either, Quizno's and KFC aren't very expensive and they're both edible. I think most of us would gladly buy our own lunch at a place like that, if it meant social time with former colleagues. .
.
Dear lord, how is it you guys were laid off from your fancy Microsoft jobs only a few months ago and now you're reduced to having social lunches at Quizno's out of necessity?
You seriously need to get a copy of The Millionaire Next Door and take it to heart.
I recently left my average IC-level position at Microsoft voluntarily after 5 years. Over those 5 years I had saved enough money to live for 4 years without changing my lifestyle at all. And my lifestyle includes eating lunch wherever I feel like it, as long as it's not Daniel's every day. I have some sympathy for those of you who support a family but maybe it's time for your wife to get a job.
We should bet on what to happen tomorrow.
"salaries offered are less than the bloated MS salaries"
Bloated salaries at Microsoft?? At least I never got that impression when I was there - maybe some dev/test/pm group managers might boast of that with their six figure stock awards, but not me.
So it's nearly 6:30, and no email from Steve yet. Is that BS I smell of the past rumors?
"Argh. How depressing is this article."
Very. Also accurate.
"Ballmer and co. have been beating the same dead horse for 10 years now."
Maybe the problem lies with the jockey and not the horse?
"Ballmer seems to have the same technical vision as my neighbor who barely knows how to turn his computer on but gets very excited about editorials on technology in Business Week."
Ballmer has taken one of the strongest, most dominant companies in the industry and, in the span of just nine short years, turned it into a struggling, widely ridiculed and increasingly irrelevant company. The worst part is that it's probably too late now to reverse the process.
hah, no layoffs today.
thanks for all the worries, I'm done checking the comments for dirt.
This blog site makes people very nervous and unable to even function. I say just do your honest work and whatever happens and whenever it happens just deal with it then. of course it's good to be prepared, but we should always be prepared for the worst for everything in life, especially in this economy.
so nothing is happening today?
Doesn't seem to be anything happening today! No mail from any big shots about this.
Anyone knows or heard of anything happening anywhere?
Looks like no layoffs happening today. No mail from Balmer. Noone crying in the parking lot of my building. Paranoia is not healthy.
Seems speculation was WRONG. Its 6/30..
About the comment on work-life balance in Search -
My friends who joined the live org when it took off are at least 1 and sometimes 2 levels ahead of me. You can't have it both ways. Search has its share of kids in principal and senior roles.
To the questions of why not take a job at 25% or 40% or 60% less - yeah, heard some of those even lower options for me too, 25% less is the best situation, and we are trying to stay positive here - than what I made before? I guess I'm surprised that you would have a question on that - the short answer is it is less - a lot less. Our life pattern before January 22 has been to earn income, save heavily, pay off our house fast for long-term security, live pretty modestly with a few luxuries, donate some, and that's where the money goes. We have built up savings that we are using to supplement the job search period, hoping to make a good career move out of the layoff, not take just anything. I had a 12 year tech career at another company before coming to Microsoft, and I know what my market rate had been in recent years. We live pretty simply, so taking a big hit in ongoing salary would be difficult, with the attending decline in standard of living. Impossible? No, but certainly not what anyone plans. I have had a strong career post-college, earned an MBA last year through the UW, and have really done very well along the way, with recruiters calling, lots of praise, good compensation, all that sort of thing that makes for a good work life. I don't jump from job to job, and am looking for a good choice of work, not just whatever panicked decision I can make at the moment.
We set a deadline of September for my taking contract work (if I can get it), and a "take what you can get" endpoint of December. All this extra time to find something comes from careful savings of past income, and using it as a safety net now. Savings that were tagged for other things in the future, not living expenses in 2009. To us, thrust into this sudden unemployed situation, it seemed sensible to try to get a good job, like what I've always had, not just take whatever is there at whatever price. So we think of it as spreading out past income to cover this time period, but it can't go on forever. What are we waiting for? For things to get better in the economy, and more opportunities to open up. A lot of local companies have had hiring frozen or slowed, and that has made things tight in the job market.
I guess if you think taking a 25% to 60% reduction in pay for work you do well - that this is a fine idea - then I don't know what to say. I don't know how to explain the current job hunting landscape to you - I have never seen anything as bad as this, and our investments and prior 401K are still hit hard, along with the value of our modest home. It's just different than it's ever been for me, and it's really not good.
However, since I also am beginning to question my plan of waiting for a good job with similar pay to my past years of employment, if I get an offe from the company I am interviewing with this week, if they come in anywhere around what we need for regular income here, I will likely take it. Just because we don't want to be stupid, and eat through the rest of the money for no purpose. When I add up all our regular expenses, I need to earn a certain amount to cover all of that, and to build cash for the future.
Thanks to those who explained that the former colleagues likely feel a bit uncomfortable - you're right, it's tough on both sides of the old relationship. And thanks for the questions on why not take the boring or job with less pay. I guess it's a combination of pride and wanting to protect my career path, plus not want to give away my expertise. I am afraid taking the low-paying job might defeat me, and I won't be able to recover, that I will give up. We all strive to make a path for ourselves, and to make our lives better, plan our futures. I do, anyway. Or did.
"One of the top technologists in Craig Mundie's whole organization is moving to OSD to help Microsoft's mobile search and advertising. He is innovators' innovator. Another sad news for folks in SBA following the 2nd round of layoff. This is a major coup from Satya to steal Craig's top dog.
Who is the person?"
We just learned from Satya that OSD got Xuedong Huang to help our mobile search. I have worked for XD on speech before. Everything XD touched turned into #1 on the technical metrics. This is exactly what we need for OSD. Great news for MS!!!
"MSFT India does substandard work that's an embarrassment to the company
I agree with this poster. Its not that the guys here cannot do good work but most of them are pretty lazy out here at IDC. Infact in May and June a lot of time was spent watching cricket matches in office"
Ummmm yeah. How come no one says that about the Western Europe offices that completely shut down for the months of July and August?!
I was part of the first wave. It was a *total* shock to me, and my colleagues. Total shock. I was a classic over-achiever; the only thing I was guilty of was being a little too vocal about how we were doing the wrong things - maybe that's why I was thrown out
You must've been one of those poor people who believed that the "company values" were supposed to be taken seriously (you know, all that stuff about speaking the truth, even when it is not popular)
Consider this a lesson learned. Too bad it had to cost you your job but you'll be better off in the long term.
If they had not paid for my silence with the severence package (to get your money you have to agree to not bad mouth the company or the staff), I've got enough material documented and itemized to make a very embarassing 30 min special about how poorly managed this entire escapade has been.
Fear not, not everyone signed it. Not all of us have "very embarrassing" things to say, or the mindset to say them even if we did, but some of us do have pretty funny things to say.
"For people who were good performer and got eliminated, you might be wondering what's the reason for the lay-off.
If the layoff is not a business adjustment, then it may be:
. Did you get divorced?
. Did you have trouble with the law, even you were not convicted?
. Did you have medical condition?
. Did you take prescription pain killer?
Microsoft HR has tools to get these information on you. If some of the issues apply to you, be alert."
Mini, for the love of god would you please stop posting this trolling garbage? It's not relevant and is certainly not what's happening. It's inflammatory FUD.
Come on please, Mini -- exercise some common sense.
Q4 earnings are out on July 23rd. Expect lay-offs to follow by 30th July. There was lot of noise around June 30th, can't be true. No reason to announce layoffs ahead of earnings report.
I agree about poor quality of work from India, purely waste of money!! twice as much work for Redmond team, India screws up we fix it.
Yesterday I got an email from the mugs managing Stock grants to notify me of a grant(s) that I have comming in August. To bad I'm not going to be there after the 4th. Seriously, rub salt into the wound a bit more MS. Not only do you remind me that I'm not going to have a job in a few days, but that all my stock grants that haven't vested are also worthless.
For all the negative posters and MS bashers here.. I for one am not in that boat. For the short time (2 yrs) I have been here, I have loved it so far. Sure, there are politics like every other company on the planet has. Sure, there are a few bad managers like every other company on the planet has. Sure, the company has made some mistakes and have lost out on a lot of opportunities, again just like every other company on the planet has done. It is all part and parcel of the workplace, and I still feel proud at the broader work environment and open culture here.
Are you serious? I've been at MS for about 11 years now and as far as I can see everything XD touches turns into something that doesn't ship and/or gets the entire division dismantled. If you value your career you need to run the fuck away.
Any idea if there is going to be another layoff in august or september? especially in teams like windows, exchange, etc. which were not affected during previous layoffs
We just learned from Satya that OSD got Xuedong Huang to help our mobile search
Yeah, great news indeed for XD. He can pad his account with millions of dollars.
I feel so bad for everyone that has been affected by the poor economy and the MS layoffs. I have been in the high-tech industry for 25+ years and have worked at MS (+4 years now) in addition to three other very large (don't want to say who...) MS competitors and partners. Life isn't any different at Microsoft than everywhere else, except that people here seem to feel like MS is a very different company, for some reason. Believe me...it isn't. Maybe it was, once, but not anymore. Same politics, same issues, same bullshit, layoffs, reorgs, etc. Business is business and people are expendable when times get tough. The biggest difference is that those companies have leaders with a vision...we don't at Microsoft.
Everything XD touched turned into #1 on the technical metrics. This is exactly what we need for OSD. Great news for MS!!!
Really? Never heard of anything with his name on it makes money.
Are you serious? I've been at MS for about 11 years now and as far as I can see everything XD touches turns into something that doesn't ship and/or gets the entire division dismantled. If you value your career you need to run the fuck away.
I bet you must be a PM or marketing person in SBA :-) Engineers in SBA love XD. We will follow him to OSD some day.
This is the email Satya sent out to OSD.
I’m delighted to announce that XD is joining OSD R&D, as Partner Architect reporting to me. XD has made many contributions in research and product groups over the years at Microsoft. Above all he is passionate about innovation. And it’s that passion that brings him to OSD. He will focus on working with our Mobile feature teams across Search/MSN and Ads and other emerging service offerings.
I am very excited to see we are staffing OSD with another super strong technical person like XD. We need to prepare for our next battle with Google now. Kai-Fu Lee at Google must be concerned now :-) XD used to work for Kai-Fu Lee.
Dear lord, how is it you guys were laid off from your fancy Microsoft jobs only a few months ago and now you're reduced to having social lunches at Quizno's out of necessity?
Simple: When income is not coming in at the usual level, we cut back, to be prudent stewards of our finances! Sorry, but lunches at Daniel's just aren't a necessity, and given what my 401-K looks like, I'd rather avoid them for the time being. If you're laid off and you keep living at the same standard of living you had while employed, and you're not a multi-millionaire, good luck to ya. I think you need to re-peek at that book you recommended.
I feel so bad for everyone that has been affected by the poor economy and the MS layoffs. I have been in the high-tech industry for 25+ years and have worked at MS (+4 years now) in addition to three other very large (don't want to say who...) MS competitors and partners. Life isn't any different at Microsoft than everywhere else, except that people here seem to feel like MS is a very different company, for some reason. Believe me...it isn't. Maybe it was, once, but not anymore. Same politics, same issues, same bullshit, layoffs, reorgs, etc. Business is business and people are expendable when times get tough. The biggest difference is that those companies have leaders with a vision...we don't at Microsoft.
It used to be a different company.
While I thought it was goofy at the time, the BrainV WIMs were a pretty damn righteous effort.
Now, we are building bars into camps that nobody can actually use.
We could say growth forced it to become the company it is today... But I do not think that is true.
Management decisions made it the company it is today (technical focus, who to promote, etc.)...
Eh.
We will see where it is in 10 years. I am thinking somewhere around CPQ levels given the current dump of any technical push outside of search, Zune and Live.
"The biggest difference is that those companies have leaders with a vision...we don't at Microsoft."
Absolutely agree.
Also, some feedback to Bing:
I was gonna search for stock market holidays in 2009, so naturally I go to Google, and before I finish typing, Google gives me 2nd pre-populated suggested choice of
"Stock market holidays 2009"
so I don't even have to finish up typing the string, but just select it (GOOGLE can "read my mind" what I need)
Now go to Bing it:
Start typing the same thing as into Google, and what you get - absolutely no recommendation for year 2009, but hey there are resommendations for years 2008 and 2006
DO YOU REALLY THINK THAT NOW IN JULY OF 2009 I AM INTERESTED IN SEARCHING FOR HOLIDAYS IN 2008?
People, do something before Bing will start having "bad experience" associated with it.
Yes, UI looks nice, but the search results have not improved much, and the gap between Google is not any smaller.
PUMs, Directors and G.Ms are scared of their jobs in MS IT India. No exceptions will be made, 10% will be out. Inside scoop or gossip, Meher Afroz and Sreenivas Simhadri could be shown the door.
>> all that stuff about speaking the truth
Depends on where you are in the company and your management chain. Back when I was at MSFT, I was a relentless critic of all that I perceived as crap, and my promotion velocity was still pretty good. To prevent snide remarks, I have to mention I left last year.
That said, you need to be balanced, and propose solutions as well. By balanced I mean when someone does a good job (i.e. Office 2007, Visual Studio, Win 7, Bing), you need to recognize the fact and give credit where it's due. If you criticize some aspect of some app, tell people how you would make it better. If you don't do these two things, you will be perceived as a whiner, and that's career limiting not just at Microsoft.
Tell it like you see it, but have tact and suggest solutions. There will be no repercussions, and if there are - move to another team - you don't want to work for idiots anyway.
Good for you. I felt the same way when I was 2 yrs in. 2-3 years later, I had enough. Let us know what you think in another 2-3 years.
> For all the negative posters and MS bashers here.. I for one am not in that boat. For the short time (2 yrs) I have been here, I have loved it so far. Sure, there are politics like every other company on the planet has. Sure, there are a few bad managers like every other company on the planet has. Sure, the company has made some mistakes and have lost out on a lot of opportunities, again just like every other company on the planet has done. It is all part and parcel of the workplace, and I still feel proud at the broader work environment and open culture here.
Followed the post for a while. Amazing how Microsoft employees can bash the company that essentially pays their salary. In my opinion, if you don't like the smell in the kitchen - get out!!! You are of NO value to the company regardless of your U/A/E ranking in your annual review.
You are weak people with no self respect when you continue to work and spend your life in a company that you despise.
Lot of a- contracts have been closed. Can anybody tell me how many a- are left there, if possible how many of them are from volt, aditi and excel
Back in May there was an official announcement that a Windows division re-org was going to begin taking place in July. It never happened.
I've heard that the re-org is still planned and will start in July.
I can't say this re-org will result in lay-offs, but if they did want to lay people off, this would be a good time to do it.
Gah, lazy blogger "journalists" - why is it we read about executives leaving, moving around here first and then a day or two later there is a blog post writing about it with zero attribution back to the commenters here?
Hey bloggers! Ya want the pipe to keep running with information so that you can get your page views? Feed the source. Or watch it dry up and then whatcha gonna do?
what do you mean by "Leaders with Visions"? Can you give a concrete example?
Also, another question, given the opportunity, would you ever become a manager at Microsoft? Why and Why not?
Simple: When income is not coming in at the usual level, we cut back, to be prudent stewards of our finances! Sorry, but lunches at Daniel's just aren't a necessity, and given what my 401-K looks like, I'd rather avoid them for the time being. If you're laid off and you keep living at the same standard of living you had while employed, and you're not a multi-millionaire, good luck to ya. I think you need to re-peek at that book you recommended. .
.
I admit, I did not actually read the book myself. But I believe its message is to live well below your means. If you're doing this, then no, you actually probably don't have to cut back if you lose your income. I haven't and I'm FAR from being a millionaire. And I don't even get unemployment benefits. If you're cutting back, it should make you question why you were spending so much in the first place. Although I guess with the prevalence of credit card debt, pawn shops, and strip mall payday loan places, your idea that spending should correlate to income definitely puts you in the majority.
"Tell it like you see it, but have tact and suggest solutions. There will be no repercussions, and if there are - move to another team - you don't want to work for idiots anyway."
Some of the worst advice I've seen. "Tell it like you see it" will almost always be a negative for your career velocity at MS. And by the time you've done it and realized the repercussions, you often won't be able to move to another team. Show me a person who has done really well at MS and, nine times out of ten, I'll show you someone who never openly challenged anything that came down from above. Indeed, part of our problem today is that we have spent years systematically weeding out anyone who dared question the status quo. Now we're left with too many sycophants when we're desperately in need of reviewing the suitability of existing programs and embracing new approaches.
>>You are weak people with no self respect when you continue to work and spend your life in a company that you despise.
Ummm... many of these opinions here negative to MSFT are being voiced with the hope and intent that bringing these issues to light may allow for a once great company to reinvent itself out of the morass its currently in.
Many of the people voicing those opinions have a very strong bond with the company and dislike what they see going on, and the obvious downward spiral that the company is in.
Remember the ouster of Carly "The Witch" Fiorina from HP? A large part of it was due to employees pushing back as they saw her taking HP down the toilet. She's now gone, HP is slowly rising from the brink of collapse.
So, don't underestimate the power of speaking out and fighting back. One could even go so far to say that it is the weak that pack their bags and leave.
i was indirectly told by folks who sat on ranking that my direct mgmt is making the case to get me out of the org. Thus bit is flipped.
their face time with me is supportive and that we can have the trio (me, mgmt, hr) if there are problems.
HR is trying to ensure that the lines are dotted and tees are t'd .
I checked headtrax and now I see over 70K contractors and 96K employees with 7-9K open positions? Wow...
>>You are weak people with no self respect when you continue to work and spend your life in a company that you despise.<<
Exactly, this is the thing I've never understood.
If you're as good at your job as you say you are, whats stopping you from jumping ship to a company you actually do admire?
I did get out because the smell was getting foul. No more meetings with people that behave like teenagers where there was shouting and cursing (yes it's true). No more drama. Now I work at a place where people actually value my expertise, and where people behave like adults and have boundaries.
In the last month, I've talked to a few friends who have left MSFT in the last year, and the overall theme I've been hearing is "Wow, people actually do like me and value my work."
So yeah, I added alot of value but the culture was wearing on me to the point I didn't like coming to work anymore. So I got the hell out. I believe that's exercising some self-respect and common sense.
> Followed the post for a while. Amazing how Microsoft employees can bash the company that essentially pays their salary. In my opinion, if you don't like the smell in the kitchen - get out!!! You are of NO value to the company regardless of your U/A/E ranking in your annual review.
> You are weak people with no self respect when you continue to work and spend your life in a company that you despise.
">>You are weak people with no self respect when you continue to work and spend your life in a company that you despise."
Ummm... many of these opinions here negative to MSFT are being voiced with the hope and intent that bringing these issues to light may allow for a once great company to reinvent itself out of the morass its currently in.
I don't believe the constructive posts are what this comment is referencing -- rather the strident, teeth-gnashing "Microsoft is a sewer and I'm treated like shit and it's the most miserable place I've ever worked OMG I hate it so much" variety.
The people who continue working at Microsoft while shouting about it being the biggest toilet on the planet are either insane or incapable of getting a job anywhere else.
>>Ummm... many of these opinions here negative to MSFT are being voiced with the hope and intent that bringing these issues to light may allow for a once great company to reinvent itself out of the morass its currently in<<
And I say bullshit. the vast majority of posts here are not constructive in any way. They're mostly sniping and rumor mongering mixed with a good dose of "I'm so glad I left MS"
Next layoffs are in August. I'm not sure of the exact date, I would guess first week or two.
I have a senior HR friend who did the layoffs (sits in the room with you) and correctly told me of 3 total layoffs. The other two were correct so I would bet on August as being the time. After that... who knows.
Hey Mini...you've been too quiet lately. Did Ballmer throw a chair at you or something?
How are the leads calibrated at Microsoft?
Are they held accountable for the number of people they grow?
In other words, if they get more people under them promoted, will that help them get promoted too?
Hey Mini (aka 'Who-da...'), about time for a new post? We're coming up on 2 months for this one. If you're planning on taking it easy this summer, maybe get a new post to spark new discussion first?
uh, it's kind lookin' like mini got layed off himself. this is the longest time between posts that i can find. now wouldn't that be poetic justice.
Shouldn't the people responsible for this debacle be fired
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/microsoftpri0/2009408310_whats_grosser_than_gross_the_latest_internet_explo.html
Sorry folks. With all this recent great weather I've been busy enjoying the abundant daylight every spare hour I can.
I'll put up a small post sometime soon.
Mini.
"How are the leads calibrated at Microsoft?
Are they held accountable for the number of people they grow?
In other words, if they get more people under them promoted, will that help them get promoted too?"
Well, no, leads are calibrated alongside the ICs as the calibration process moves up the reporting structure.
Since the promotion budgets are fixed at the end of the day, a lead that grows a bunch of folks in September won't find him/herself being promoted as well :-) but there's plenty of other time to get that "P" next to the name.
The thing is, leads are not going to do that great for growing people: they are rewarded for their "increased scope" of contributions, exciting impact, all while covering enough as a people manager to at least justify their existance to one of their many GMs.
The last Visio calibration doc I saw was startling.
Shouldn't the people responsible for this debacle be fired
No.
I speak for SMSG India... We just ended the financial year and major changes announced just two days into FY10. While we missed budget SMSG India has shown remarkable recovery in Q4 and clocked the highest revenues ever for a quarter. BUT thats more of a silver lining, already most of the 10%rs have been handed out their walking papers, some have been given 45-60days to find new jobs within MS... others just told to take a hike. the managers who hired these so called under performers survive still.
Rajiv Srivastava moves on to the new and seemingly unique role. Looks like Daadhi as he's fondly known, didn't gel too well with the new boss Or is he really taking on a bigger challenge to prove a point? Given that he leaves after the biggest ever quarter in EPG India history, it is anybody's guess.
Two out of three Region Leads chairs in EPG have fallen vacant with the restructuring... and its clear that people will be hired from outside to fill these. So who is coming in? Unlike the past no names in the rumor mills (curious really curious, has Ravi effectively gagged all news sources). Rajan has fanned all sorts of speculation by declaring that he will be personally taking care of EPG for next Several Months till a new GM is hired... Internal promotion or transfers are therefore ruled out. Guess most of the EPG directors are either downright incompetent or underqualified for the job. And what of the tonnes of Managers we had spawned and promoted in the last two years, all sorts or stories going around ranging from return to IC roles to you know what... Either ways, we seem to have failed to grow leaders from within and thats after 12 years of existence.
Changes are in offing at the BMO as well, however no leadership changes or major restructuring. we hear some product managers may be looking for role changes. Some roles have been upgraded and hence become too big for incumbents therefore more attrition.. is expected.
Minor changes in SMSP as well, the non Dynamics SSPs (formerly PTS roles) move to EPG and there seems to be some refocussing of the priorities but thats about it. So the major changes are restricted to the biggest and heaviest elephant in the lot.
Curiosly no leadership changes or restructuring in DPE as yet... we continue to be the highly protected bunch of good-for-nothing high on potential, low on results, heavily into partying and travel lot that we were... Good times seem to be around the corner and most of us are looking to regain our gold and platinum status in hotel and airline programs. Just how long before we get bored of Dance Party and Entertainment and do some serious work.
An old chinese curse goes May you live in interesting times . it is interesting and could get more interesting in near future, What says you Mini?
"How are the leads calibrated at Microsoft?
Are they held accountable for the number of people they grow?
In other words, if they get more people under them promoted, will that help them get promoted too?"
You have summarized the scenario so very aptly.
In India, for instance, especially EPG - we have witnessed a surge in Directors and thereby an increase in Managers within the group.
Any sane structure would for sure not have an Overhead which impacts inversely over growth.
Some of the promotions have been so atrocious where Managers are promoted as Directors without portfolios..And Managers who are promoted have more experience in licking their bosses than meeting customers.
Perhaps India is the only Area where EPG runs business like SMSP and vice versa. The two acronyms popular here are CYA (Cover your A**) and FOH (F*** others Happiness). EPG here stands for "Enter (for) Promotions Group). I was in for a surprise where i spoke to a few of them and it looks like there have been no Freebie distribution offlate :)
http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/43134/140/
"The now-infamous vomit video, hosted by Dean Cain, mixed in-your-face graphic reality with what was supposed to be a funny take on a new browser feature.
Unfortunately, it didn't work. Viewers, incensed at the graphic reality of the video, criticized Microsoft for crossing the line and have been burning up blogs, Twitter streams and online forums since the video first went online last month. The object of their ire has been pulled from YouTube's ie8videos channel and other resources being used by Microsoft. The video indeed went viral, but with enough of a negative backlash that Microsoft finds itself wishing it had chosen another theme.
While I want to congratulate Microsoft for diving head-first into a new medium, I wish they hadn't abandoned common sense in the process. I find it hard to believe that no one on the marketing team ever raised a hand and said this was beyond tasteless. Which is the root of the problem when straight-to-Internet video production removes the checks and balances built into more traditional television production methods. Multibillion dollar, publicly traded, respected companies have no excuses when their marketing processes result in moronic fare like this. We expect better, and Microsoft shareholders deserve better.
Every single manager involved in approving this ad should be fired, including Ballmer if he was consulted. And if he wasn't, the board should be asking why a company with a severely damaged reputation has a CEO who still doesn't maintain more control over the outgoing messages (on top of presiding over most of that damage).
"Any settlement won’t free Microsoft from future scrutiny, Rosoff said.
“This is a constant backdrop,” he said. “Microsoft is now a heavily regulated company. There’s an interesting comparison between Microsoft and a tobacco company.”
Yeah. Regulated, disliked, poor diversification results, majority of profits still coming from pushing the same toxic products, and lousy stock investments.
"I'll put up a small post sometime soon.
Mini."
You probably don't need topic suggestions, but this one would be worth giving the visibility your blog provides:
Microsoft R&D Hasn't Delivered
The author is the shareholder activist who gained notoriety with Yahoo. Apparently his fund now holds some MS.
SLT should be focused on building the company that is going to win coming out of this recession, something they didn't do very well in 2000-2002. If they do, a different approach to R&D will have to factor highly.
"How are the leads calibrated at Microsoft?
Are they held accountable for the number of people they grow?
In other words, if they get more people under them promoted, will that help them get promoted too?"
Do you get promoted for doing your daily routine job? It is job of every manager to take care and grow team. Why would they get promoted for that ? Most leads and managers I have seen here don't do much except people management, they are already getting salary + bonus for that.
ICs vs. managers
"Well, no, leads are calibrated alongside the ICs as the calibration process moves up the reporting structure."
I wish shitheads who write these things actually understood the system. So, actually, no. Managers and ICs are calibrated separately, by design. That is to say if the business unit follows the rules.
Calibration is based on peer groups that are:
L59 and below; L60-62; L63-64; L65-67. L68 and above are partner-people who basically shit money so the rules don't apply.
The level <=67 people in each of the above categories are split into IC vs. manager groups IF the population is large enough (>100) the curve is applied. If not, the team in question is combined with another group and the rules are re-engaged.
Having worked at MS as people manager for 10 years I know this shit by heart. Oh BTW I recently left to do something that involves more, uhhhmmm, meaningful work, so good luck to all.
What planet is Robert Y on? We are moving accounts, ATU's are changing, PAM's are getting RIF'd, SSP's are now in the STU abyss, yada, yada, yada. Good thing there is no re-org!
Is it just me? I find it interesting that so many posters here are former employees. If I were RIF'd, or fired, or resigned, the last place I would be is on a blog about my former employer.
And some of these posters have been gone for years. Man, get a life. Look forward not backwards.
No discussions on the Chrome OS?
I'm a user researcher (aka Usability specialist)...This is a bit off-topic...I came across a great article from Jakob Nielsen titled: Building Respect for Usability Expertise
During my years at Microsoft, I worked with many program managers and GPMs who relied on their opinions instead of feedback from target audience to guide design.
Not all PMs are like this...I also worked with many who saw the light. For those of you who think User Research is a waste of time, please read this.
Promoting Sinofsky is already a mistake. He clearly sailed through the Windows 7 development cycle doing nothing more than to remove some nonsense added at the last minute to Windows Vista. His interpersonal skills are not great, and the energy is simply not there. But maybe he is being compared to Ozzie, and in that case Sinofsky probably looks like the Energizer bunny!
Yet, worse is to see Tami (Who?) Reller being promoted after sending the Dynamics product line into oblivion. What is Ballmer thinking?
Microsoft India - Laughing Stock
EPG Director - unceremoniously out - He got what he didn't deserve. He was a scapegoat
Many Managers & Regional & Solution Directors have been demoted - They all work as ICs henceforth
With Business tanking heavily, the Indian Leadership has been kind by making all the Directors and Managers put on IC roles to look for ventures outside MS.
The 10+ year MS legacies still Rule. Thank God EPG West does not have to bear Hemant Dabke's idiotic smile...We do not have to hear his enlightening views on who is bad and how good he is :) Trust he realises that he is a born loser when it comes to Enteprise BUsiness and he is just good for doing nothing but divide and rule.
MS India needs heavy trimming and the new restructuring has only led to more scepticism. The Managemetn expects the new style of "forced demotions" call for exits fromt the legacy Directors and Managers - but what one can be sure of is that this legacy lobby can have their way and let the leadership exit instead :)
'What planet is Robert Y on? We are moving accounts, ATU's are changing, PAM's are getting RIF'd, SSP's are now in the STU abyss, yada, yada, yada. Good thing there is no re-org!'
Curious about this comment...please elaborate. I haven't heard of any PAMs RIF'd as of yet....
what do you do if you feel like your boss is taking advantage of you? i.e he would ask you to do something, and then present to his boss or someone else big up there as if he came up with it and did all the work.
what should you do? And what could you do? I guess in most circumstances, you probably have to suck it up. Any thoughts on that?
Is there a dl on the theme of "save microsoft from itself"?
"Having worked at MS as people manager for 10 years I know this shit by heart."
The Full Metal Jacket approach to mentoring and leadership, I take it?
With the SteveSi announcement today - i.e. re-org - and near completion of Win7, does anybody doubt there will be a massive Windows layoff sometime around the Q4 earnings report later this month?
so what about the visio calibration doc that you saw that was so startling?
Sinofski got promoted to president today. How many heads did he promise Ballmer & Turner in exchange for his shiny new title?
No more meetings with people that behave like teenagers where there was shouting and cursing (yes it's true).
So you've been in a billg review too, eh?
:-)
Re: "Enterprise services did not make revenue plan by $100mill with obvious impact on CM."
Interesting: how many divisions missed revenue plan by less than 3% this fiscal(the total base for services is more than $3B, $100M = 3% of that)? Because if that was the logic there sure must be a lot more heads about to roll. Plus ... are you kidding me? Kathleen? She's never managed a P&L in her whole life, she's the one picked because Maria didn't deliver on margin???
Naaah. Kathleen has been undermining Maria for years and finally got Kevin to give her the slot. Hopefully they will stop her before she does too much damage ... but I wouldn't count on it ...
If you're cutting back, it should make you question why you were spending so much in the first place.
Oh, no, I don't require any questioning at all, to know and be OK with my choice.
I grew up in a miser's home, wearing the same clothes 4 years straight until I had enough spare money of my own to buy some cheap painters jeans and t-shirts in college, watching my parents wear my father's discarded business suits as leisure clothing so that they wouldn't have to purchase any. Ate the store-brand bulk cereals and canned vegetables. Never went on a vacation more than an hour's drive away, or in a motel greater than a 2-star.
Dad worked as a minimum wage clerk, right? Guess again. My father made 75K/yr as an exec thirty years ago. He chose to give most of that to the care of his parents, and socked away much of the rest. College? If we wanted it, we paid for it. Toward the end, my mother cooked on an electric porta-burner on the counter because the stove was in need of repair and neither parent thought spending the money to repair it was essential. The plan was after he'd retire, my parents would "go mobile" in an Airstream for years at a time, finally feeling that it was safe to start spending money.
You probably can guess the ending. Both passed before retirement, never got to live within their means, always only far below it. I have no desire for that life. It sickened me to watch it, and I certainly got out of it as soon as I could. That doesn't mean I spend every spare buck, just that I refuse to be a miser "in case I need it later" for a tomorrow that honestly given my family health history may indeed never come.
The indian Chairman Mr. Ravi venkatesan is a lier to hardcore. When the ex-md Neelam dhavan left he has said to a paper interview by Mr. Venkatesh that he has no knowledge of Mrs. Neelam Dhawan putting down papers. 15 minutes before there was email in the boxes saying neelam is no more with company. He has hided that fact that Mrs.Neelam Dhawan wanted to sue microsoft and she was paid 4crores(employees hikes) as parting bonus. Even during the recent layoff he has said one percent but everybody knows it was huge number. In order to protect his job he brought in Rajan Anand from dell which is a competetior to HP (Neelam's excompany and now she is MD there). The lower ranks are all from HP. Rajeev Srivastav, Rajnish etc. So all confusion and ravi is making his time. Do we need a chairman like this. Microsoft is anyway a sinking ship. Its charm is gone with Bill gates. Steve Balmer is a joker who can jump like monkey nothing more. He will ruin microsoft. Look at Oracle, a dream company, great acquisitions and good road map.
No sure what part of the MS world you are from, but in Office leads are calibrated right alongside ICs.
(Which is not to say they aren't treated differently in certain other ways)
Is it just me? I find it interesting that so many posters here are former employees. If I were RIF'd, or fired, or resigned, the last place I would be is on a blog about my former employer
I can only speak for myself but since I live in the Puget Sound area and have numerous friends still at MS, whatever goes on there is of interest to me. And this blog is definitely the place to go if you want unfiltered information.
And yes, I'll admit it, there is a part of schadenfreude in watching the train wreck happen all the while congrtulating oneself for having the foresight to get out on time.
"Interesting: how many divisions missed revenue plan by less than 3% this fiscal(the total base for services is more than $3B, $100M = 3% of that)? Because if that was the logic there sure must be a lot more heads about to roll. Plus ... are you kidding me? Kathleen? She's never managed a P&L in her whole life, she's the one picked because Maria didn't deliver on margin???
Naaah. Kathleen has been undermining Maria for years and finally got Kevin to give her the slot. Hopefully they will stop her before she does too much damage ... but I wouldn't count on it ..."
Hmmm ... did I say a $100 million? It was actually nearer $250 million at year end. So in this economy is that terrible? Maybe not but quarter a billion is still a lot of money.
As for 'undermining Maria' I don't think she needed much help in that department. Or if by 'undermining' you mean doing a great job then I agree.
I grew up in a miser's home
.
Sorry, I take it back then. You have to admit though that many (most?) Microsoft employees are very bad with money. How many 'softies go to the store and buy whatever new video game or DVD they feel like for full price, just to play it once, or not at all? How many are constantly buying new high-end computers, laptops, and AV equipment that only offer marginal improvements over what they already have? How many buy new cars for sticker price because they're seemingly unaware of the used car market, or the basics of negotiation? How many get ripped off on car repairs because they don't have the vaguest idea how cars work? How many don't understand the first thing about financial markets and have tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars just sitting in Microsoft stock (ESPP, grants, etc.) because they don't know how to diversify? With just a little more financial awareness I think most 'softies I know could save $10k+/year without any significant impact to their lifestyle.
Someone in this company has too much free time! Anybody else got an invitation for another "Employee Survey". This just months after the MSPOLL! By now, this company has just too much data and too little action. It is almost like if there is someone thinking of ways to twist questions and possible choices until some VP gets happy about the results!
Nice to see Mini-Msft blog as an option in the survey!
Maria did an average job for being at the wrong place at the wrong time.
Kathleen is not as skilled nor has the necessary experience. It's bad choice.
"The indian Chairman Mr. Ravi venkatesan is a lier to hardcore. When the ex-md Neelam dhavan left he has said to a paper interview by Mr. Venkatesh that he has no knowledge of Mrs. Neelam Dhawan putting down papers. 15 minutes before there was email in the boxes saying neelam is no more with company. He has hided that fact that Mrs.Neelam Dhawan wanted to sue microsoft and she was paid 4crores(employees hikes) as parting bonus. Even during the recent layoff he has said one percent but everybody knows it was huge number. In order to protect his job he brought in Rajan Anand from dell which is a competetior to HP (Neelam's excompany and now she is MD there). The lower ranks are all from HP. Rajeev Srivastav, Rajnish etc. So all confusion and ravi is making his time. Do we need a chairman like this. Microsoft is anyway a sinking ship. Its charm is gone with Bill gates. Steve Balmer is a joker who can jump like monkey nothing more. He will ruin microsoft. Look at Oracle, a dream company, great acquisitions and good road map."
This comment brilliantly highlights the reasons Microsoft needs to whack thousands more employees -- but perhaps not in the way the OP intended.
When does Proclub card stop working?
Re "Hmmm ... did I say a $100 million? It was actually nearer $250 million at year end. So in this economy is that terrible? Maybe not but quarter a billion is still a lot of money.
As for 'undermining Maria' I don't think she needed much help in that department. Or if by 'undermining' you mean doing a great job then I agree."
Avoiding the cheap shot of "you meant 250, you wrote 100, got any credibility left?" I'd argue it really makes no difference. 250 ~ 10% ... in this economy. Are we planning to fire all VPs that hit 90% of plan? Because it'd be quite a few heads ....
One thing is to do a good job another is to actively undermine your boss with your bosses' boss to get her job. Good job cutting CSS costs ... till you look at the management she left in that org (if she did such a good job why didn't she have a successor?) and compare our costs to the industry ....
We'll see what happens, I wouldn't count on her lasting too long or ending any differently from Maria. Which I disagree with the other poster did a horrible job but ... by other metrics than those 100/250M
"This comment brilliantly highlights the reasons Microsoft needs to whack thousands more employees -- but perhaps not in the way the OP intended."
Whack the OP while you're at it. Anyone too stupid to spell our CEO's name correctly would be good attrition.
Just wondering.... is the Office 10 announcement on Monday that includes the 'Web Office' functionality good or bad for Microsoft? Will it allow us to better compete with Google (and smaller players like Zoho and Thinkfree)? Sure. But I just don't see where the money is going to come from. Advertising? Seriously?
Hello ex-FTEs,
Having recently left the mothership myself, I will be soon launching a website for ex-Microsoft FTEs.
To be clear this will be a space for you to explore your future, not your past. Think about it: you are someone who qualified to work for the largest software company in the world. Lots of potential employers care about your career potential ... stay tuned
I too have become one of the statistics. Today Microsoft decided to end its relationship with me, and I will no longer be sharing the hallowed electronic ether with the great community of people I have come to know and befriend in my 8 years at the company.
You can see a more detailed view of my thoughts now that I have left at my blog.
http://surkanstance.blogspot.com/2009/07/big-event.html
I find Mikhail's situation rather interesting. Here's someone getting fired in the middle of July, before the reviews are final and his August grants are due. So, the timing is rather odd, to say the least.
On the other hand, Mikhail, by his own admission, sounds like a guy who has been marching to the beat of his own drum for a while, so this cannot come as a surprise.
Me personally, unless the situation is dangerous to my mental and physical health and beyond any level of tolerance, I say just stick to the company line, be a team player, deliver the goods, and collect your paycheck.
These are indeed scary times, and unless you can afford it, it's best to stick around as long as possible, doing the best job you can. So that, if you lose your job, it's not due to performance, but a general layoff, and you can collect the severance, among other benefits.
I know, everything is not about the money, but right know, the situation demands that you hold on to that job for dear life.
I think most 'softies I know could save $10k+/year without any significant impact to their lifestyle.
The younger ones perhaps. But a lot of us 10+ years types have kids hitting college and parents hitting hospitals.
If I was 25 and just getting rolling in life... Hell ya! Just buy what I want.
Given the companies age and size... Reality is that those that are secure (by dedication and practice), those that are not (by external forces) and those that were already screwed (been divorced lately?) are also in the mix.
Personally, the whole downturn has made me reset my priorities. After decades of more hours at work than home and trips that had me missing holidays... I don’t care if I work as a barista or stocking clerk now... I want my time with my kids.
My wife got let go in first round. I got it in the second. We had never been particularly good with finances, but crossed each bridge as we got there. I had to mortgage our house within an inch of reality to pay for serious surgery for my mother in law... Net after job losses was handing the keys to the bank.
But no regrets. Moved back down closer to family. Cleared other debts. And mother in law has new hips and knees.
The last few months since May 4th have been the best I have ever had. Nothing like a good kick in the ass to remember that what is important is not where you work...
I will remember my 13 years at MS always. Good stories from start to finish... However, from a business point of view, the early years show more success than the later. I miss the agility, the ability to have open discourse (aka chair throwing, whatever - until a group has *actual* consensus not "the VP says so" consensus) and the WIMs.
Come to think of it, same from a personal point of view. The years leading up to W2K and shortly after... Had a certain collegiate feel. For me, not there now.
Regardless, 'Softies are in many flavors, types and situations. You may see some excesses, but at the end of the day, we span the ... Err... You span the spectrum...
Whack the OP while you're at it. Anyone too stupid to spell our CEO's name correctly would be good attrition.
I think you'd have to whack about 35% of the company if this is the criteria for whacking.
Sadder still, the real criteria for whacking is something that makes even less sense than that.
Finally, I'm pretty sure the poster who suggested whacking thousands more had the OP in mind with his/her suggestion. That you didn't get this suggests you may be one of the thousands in need.
When is Meher Afroz's last day, no more sh..&t about layoffs. IDC delivers shi&&ty code, MS IT is bloated, MGSI has no identity...No one knows what SMSG or DPE does
Will there be layoffs in devdiv during 1st week of August ?
Does anyone have an idea if layoffs are possible after earnings announcement? Do you know anyone who has been let go in the recent Annual callibrations ?
I was received the notification of my position will be eliminated and I now have 3 months to keep my butt-seater warm due to the result of re-org; anyway, this company is changing and I don’t think the company will ever valued the engineering, I’ve good review at every single years but it wouldn’t help me to save the day.
I would say the middle managements of this company have to flush to the crapper in order to making the real business impacts.
There is rumor - more layoff will be coming at Sep.
"Very few"
Exhibit A: "Microsoft continues layoff plan, eliminates thousands more jobs"
Exhbiit B: Microsoft cofounder Bill Gates told Congress last year U.S. companies "face a severe shortfall of scientists and engineers with expertise to develop the next generation of breakthroughs. … If we don't reverse these trends, our competitive advantage will erode."
sources:
http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/2009-07-08-science-engineer-jobs_N.htm
http://www.techflash.com/seattle/2009/05/Microsoft_continues_layoff_plan_cuts_thousands_more_jobs_44363002.html
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